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EDITORIAL: The Civil War of 2016: U.S. military officers are told to plan to fight Americans
The Washington Times ^ | August 8, 2012 | Editorial

Posted on 08/08/2012 4:50:24 PM PDT by EveningStar

Imagine Tea Party extremists seizing control of a South Carolina town and the Army being sent in to crush the rebellion. This farcical vision is now part of the discussion in professional military circles.

At issue is an article in the respected Small Wars Journal titled “Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland: A ‘Vision’ of the Future.”

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: 2016; army; banglist; civilwar; cwii; cwiiping; teaparty
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To: EveningStar

I read far too much of it, but I stopped reading when they had the Ku Klux Klan joining up with the Tea Party and Minutemen. I know a lot of folks who consider themselves members of the Tea Party movement, and not a single one of them would have anything to do with leftist anti-Christian groups like the KKK.


101 posted on 08/08/2012 6:12:11 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: centurion316; Travis McGee; Steel Wolf; bayouranger

You should read the original thread on this topic here:

Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland: A “Vision” of the Future (CW2 Ping)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2914855/posts

You should read the commentary in that thread by Travis McGee, bayouranger, and Steel Wolf in particular.

And if at all possible, I encourage you to have COL Benson read the same. Strongly encourage. They “get” a lot that I don’t think he does, there on the banks of the Potomac (figuratively if not literally).


102 posted on 08/08/2012 6:13:39 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Stonewall Jackson

“breakup of the old US Army in the days leading up to the First American Civil War”

Do you have any recommendations for good reading on that subject? That’s a subject I just haven’t come across much and I am very interested in. Thanks.


103 posted on 08/08/2012 6:16:15 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: Travis McGee
As you well know and understand, the ROE in Afghanistan are rather tight. It won't be if CWII breaks out.

And the Taliban is made up of people who have a culture, all the way back to Alexander the Great, of never surrendering. They will fight, because that is who they are. Will that happen here? Most of the “TEA” party is older, conservative, and set in their ways. That is not the group you turn to in a war. They have to much to loose.

104 posted on 08/08/2012 6:17:11 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: sagar
Regardless, I just do not see a well oiled military machine can be brought to knees by weekend warriors who are probably over 50 and not in good physical shape

The scenario will not be open warfare, at least not after the tanks roll in and crush open dissent.

But, and this could be a very interesting but, a developing resistance could wreak havoc on the country and its masters.

The military could obviously subdue open revolt in all of the major urban areas. That is a very long way from true control of the country. And more importantly, control of its economic activity.

They could rule the country by force in principle. The reality could be very different. What size standing army would be needed to successfully stamp out guerrilla warfare in a county this large and diverse *if* (a significant if, I'll grant you) there were sufficient numbers in resistance?

That is why Big Brother is taking control incrementally. A sudden move would invoke chaos.

105 posted on 08/08/2012 6:17:46 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: PowderMonkey
Add Ludlow to your list.
106 posted on 08/08/2012 6:17:53 PM PDT by kitchen (Over gunned is better than the alternative.)
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To: Travis McGee

“Imagine Tea Party extremists seizing control of a South Carolina town and the Army being sent in to crush the rebellion.”

Would never happen in a million years. Tea Partiers respect law and order. They’re NOT anarchists like the bottom feeders at OWS.

However......when has logic, reason, or the Constitution ever stopped the F[r]eds (Feds + Marxist indoctrination= F[r]ed) from doing whatever they want whenever they want to whomever they want ?


107 posted on 08/08/2012 6:20:22 PM PDT by Absolutely Nobama (The Doomsday Clock is at 11:59:00......tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock.....)
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To: Travis McGee

you said
Ever seen a civil war in a nation where over 50% of the population own firearms, and 10% own scoped deer rifles capable of hitting a soldier on guard or checkpoint duty at 400+ yards?

I ran the numbers and here’s what I got..
That would give us..
10% of South Carolina’s population for Snipers are 467,923
50% of the population own firearms & are True Hunters, give or take 3 or 4 are 2,339,615

Free Fire Zone would cover..but not limited to
Total area - 31,189 square miles
Land area - 30,111 square miles
Inland water area - 1,006 square miles
Coastal water area - 72 square miles
on our on home ground advantage. plus..

Some of them Georgia boys would not want to miss out so add another couple 1000 or 2

Col. Kevin Bensonr would wet his pants if those number were a fact, and they could be. Time will tell.


108 posted on 08/08/2012 6:22:03 PM PDT by triSranch ( Home of J.C. Calhoun and the Birthplace and Deathbed of the Confederacy)
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To: Travis McGee
And if it doesn’t happen naturally, they might give it some “help.”

And plenty of outside muscle to help things progress, open borders to provide more assistance and obama telling ICE to release if they catch, the list goes on and on...I think we've progressed beyond "interesting times" and into something new.

109 posted on 08/08/2012 6:23:06 PM PDT by GBA
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To: Iron Munro
even though the governor refuses to seek federal help to quell the uprising (the usual channel for military assistance), the Constitution allows the president broad leeway in times of insurrection."

THAT is a pile of BS.

Article 4 section 4
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

And on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive means the STATE governments, not the federal one.

This does not, however, says Barbeyrac, hinder but each confederated state may provide for its particular safety, by repressing its rebellious subjects. And herewith the present constitution of the United States fully agrees. For although congress are bound to guarantee to every state in the union a republican form of government, and to protect each of them against invasion; and also against domestic violence; yet this last is only to be done where the legislature, or executive of the state (where the legislature cannot be convened) shall make the application.
George Tucker Of the Several Forms of Government, SECTION XII

At the same time it is properly provided, in order that such interference may not wantonly or arbitrarily take place; that it shall only be on the request of the state authorities: otherwise the self-government of the state might be encroached upon at the pleasure of the Union, and a small state might fear or feel the effects of a combination of larger states against it under colour of constitutional authority;
William Rawle

Any federal government action without a request from the State is unconstitutional on both the federal AND state level.

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION
Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS
Section 24 - MILITARY SUBORDINATE TO CIVIL AUTHORITY
The military shall at all times be subordinate to the civil authority

***

CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF KANSAS
BILL OF RIGHTS
Sec. 4. The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.

***

CONSTITUTION OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS
PART THE FIRST A Declaration of the Rights of the Inhabitants of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Article XVII. The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.

***

ALL the States have these, and they tie directly to this:

Article VI. - The United States
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

-----

Thanks so much for posting that text, IM.

110 posted on 08/08/2012 6:23:06 PM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a Person as Created by the Laws of Nature, not a person as created by the laws of Man)
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To: Travis McGee

That link gets me no where. Is there another way I can search for the comment?


111 posted on 08/08/2012 6:26:51 PM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Tench_Coxe

There are at least 20X the number of veterans still of useful age with appropriate knowledge and experience, than there are on active duty plus LEOs and FLEAs.


112 posted on 08/08/2012 6:27:44 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: triSranch

Even if 10% of those numbers came to bear it would scare the poop out of any army. That’d give 200,000 well equipped and well trained fighters that know their State, the ground, the waterways, and the resources, and you can believe the other States will keep busy as well. It just isn’t a fight the entire world’s armies could survive.


113 posted on 08/08/2012 6:28:21 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: ChildOfThe60s
No it's not naivety... Sadly, I understand what you're saying.

We could say the same about another kind of fighting: Politics.

Certain political parties (er, both) would rather win elections than tell the truth, stick to an ideal, do what's right, etc.

Still, it's laughable to think all these old grandparents are going to "take" Darlington, arrest mayors, cops, and sherrifs, stop traffic on the interstates, pull illegal aliens out of cars, etc.! I don't think they'd need the Army to put that down!

114 posted on 08/08/2012 6:28:36 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Rebelbase

That last pic: Waco.

Holder was part of that.


115 posted on 08/08/2012 6:30:14 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: Lurker

He’s no longer in uniform, he’s retired. He works as a contractor and can be fired at the drop of a hat (may already have been as far as I know).


116 posted on 08/08/2012 6:31:29 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: Travis McGee

Yeah, but none of their dogs will survive!


117 posted on 08/08/2012 6:32:09 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: null and void; EveningStar
"Please add me to your ping list. :)"

No.

To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you need to threaten to report me to the Admin if I don’t add you to the list...

LOL. Thanks for the Pings.

118 posted on 08/08/2012 6:32:34 PM PDT by Flotsam_Jetsome (If America were a car, the "Check President" light would be on.)
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To: null and void

Dammit, if you don’t add me to the list, I’m reporting you do the Lead Moderator! And he’s closely related to the Graphite Moderator!


119 posted on 08/08/2012 6:34:03 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: null and void
The times it has happened were either long ago, and not mentioned much in history class, or “that was different” and was aimed at small groups. For most people, it did not affect them personally.

I don't think most folks believe the “military” has gone against “citizens”. The National Guard has maybe put down some “hippies” or other riff-raff to “restore order”. But surely that could never happen to them. They are not hippies or riff-raff after all.

That is also why I love authoritarian “conservatives” who love government force so long at is used against “them”.

120 posted on 08/08/2012 6:34:24 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Windflier

You are not factoring in the goal of destroying the United States.

The Desolation of Obamanation has no interest whatsoever in either side prevailing.

Only that we are swept off the world stage and left a scorched ruin.


121 posted on 08/08/2012 6:35:00 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1297 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: redgolum
"Most of the “TEA” party is older, conservative, and set in their ways. That is not the group you turn to in a war. They have too much to lose."

I respectfully disagree.

Contrary to popular belief, for every dope smoking hippie at Woodstock, there were a hundred "normal" American kids in the service in Vietnam, Germany, South Korea, etc. Not to mention the Ozzie and Harriet kids who went on to college, marriage, jobs, etc.

And yes, there are a ton of them, a veritable lump in the Python, so to speak.

I daresay the majority of those folks have not changed their political stripes: indeed, they are the nucleus and the rank and file of the Tea Party.

As far as "too much to lose", who has that, the 19 year old kid in today's Army who is looking forward to his first legal beer and piece of tail or the old buzzard who sees nothing ahead but the Balkanization of his once great Country and a death panel?

122 posted on 08/08/2012 6:35:57 PM PDT by SnuffaBolshevik (In a tornado, even turkeys can fly.)
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To: ChildOfThe60s
Look at the attempted car bombing in NYC in 2010.

Leading up to the attempted bombing everyone from the President on down had their talking points as to how the TEA Party were a bunch of violent Tim McVeigh wannabees, and low and behold it was a fertilizer bomb.

Following the attempted bombing it was SEE SEE SEE we told you the Tea Party was violent.

Had that bomb not been a dud, it would have happened then.

Amazing how the left had their talking points in place before the attempted bombing .

123 posted on 08/08/2012 6:36:32 PM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: MamaTexan

“Any federal government action without a request from the State is unconstitutional on both the federal AND state level.”

The army being subordinate to the civil authority remains when it is the President giving the orders to attack.


124 posted on 08/08/2012 6:37:33 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: FreedomPoster

Welcome aboard!


125 posted on 08/08/2012 6:37:41 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1297 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: triSranch

Pennsylvania has close to a million deer hunters and they don’t use shotguns.


126 posted on 08/08/2012 6:38:18 PM PDT by Renegade
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To: sf4dubya

“What exactly is a Tea Party Extremist?”

We are not extremists. Frankly it’s the statists who believe in an all-powerful Federal Leviathan who are the extremists. If anything, we’re the only true “moderates” if you really think about it.

Like Ronaldus Magnus pointed out all of those years ago, Conservatism is not an ideology. Demanding that the federal government exercise only its Enumerated Powers is not an ideology, it’s being a good citizen. Stating that the redistribution of wealth is a terrible idea that only leads to genocide and destruction isn’t an ideology, it’s a statement of fact, just like it’s a statement of fact that the vast majority of Americans think radical Islam and homosexual “marriage” are bad ideas, too.

One thing I wish our “leaders” in the Republican party would realize is the fact that We the People outnumber They the Progressiveviks by a 2-1 margin. Maybe they wouldn’t be such craven cowards.


127 posted on 08/08/2012 6:39:05 PM PDT by Absolutely Nobama (The Doomsday Clock is at 11:59:00......tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock.....)
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To: ChildOfThe60s
...more importantly, control of its economic activity.

Key point.

128 posted on 08/08/2012 6:39:11 PM PDT by Palmetto Patriot (How much better off would we be if these bastards would just leave us alone?)
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To: null and void

“You are not factoring in the goal of destroying the United States.

The Desolation of Obamanation has no interest whatsoever in either side prevailing.

Only that we are swept off the world stage and left a scorched ruin.”

Well said. This isn’t about winning, this is about the destruction of the US.


129 posted on 08/08/2012 6:39:54 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: centurion316

Here’s hoping he’s fired. His infantile academic analysis is an embarrassment to real military planners the world over.


130 posted on 08/08/2012 6:40:05 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: FreedomPoster
They “get” a lot that I don’t think he does

Perhaps, but they also don't get their facts straight, at least based on most of the comments that I read.

No doubt that this issue is cause for concern, but the concern is with the political zealots who currently infest the White House and other corridors of power in DC. Thank Benson for getting this issue on the street, though I don't think that was his intent and I doubt that he realizes what a bonehead thing he did by using a political hot potato in his scenario.

131 posted on 08/08/2012 6:40:18 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: FreedomPoster; Lazamataz; Jim Robinson
Had I known about the guy's history here, I would never have posted that other article.

Fortunately, a couple kind folks FReepmailed me the new links and they do the job just fine. :)

132 posted on 08/08/2012 6:40:51 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: redgolum
As you well know and understand, the ROE in Afghanistan are rather tight. It won't be if CWII breaks out.

That is for certain.

.And the Taliban is made up of people who have a culture, all the way back to Alexander the Great, of never surrendering. They will fight, because that is who they are. Will that happen here? Most of the “TEA” party is older, conservative, and set in their ways. That is not the group you turn to in a war. They have to much to loose.

While that is true at the moment, we are discussing a scenario where it could be that they realize they have very little to lose. An order person that has lived the majority of his life as a free man, may not be so eager to spend his few remaining years as a serf. He may also be willing to sacrifice those years to prevent the serfdom of his children and grandchildren.

It's just intuition, but I suspect that there are more of those "older" people than you think that would be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for their country and their descendents. I hope we are not forced to find out.

133 posted on 08/08/2012 6:42:09 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: Travis McGee

Very interesting. I doubt that Tea Party attendees would allow themselves into any situation such as that in the Col’s scenario, although another demographic might (e.g., laid off government employees). As you wrote, most of the tea partiers are getting old. Most of them are also wiser than most others. And maybe the Col. is coming out of the closet or something.


134 posted on 08/08/2012 6:42:08 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: Travis McGee

Hey Travis, great comment, that you also left at the Washington Times article, and I wanted to give it a Like to help it rise up, but your link doesn’t work.
So, I searched for some of the text in your comment, and found it, and gave a Like, but you’re way below the number of Likes needed. You comment with the moniker Matt Bracken, so a Freeper can search for that also, and give a Like.


135 posted on 08/08/2012 6:42:28 PM PDT by Hokestuk
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To: Alas Babylon!
Still, it's laughable to think all these old grandparents are going to "take" Darlington, arrest mayors, cops, and sherrifs, stop traffic on the interstates, pull illegal aliens out of cars, etc.! I don't think they'd need the Army to put that down!

Who said anything about arrest , more like a tree with a short rope or a wall and lead.

136 posted on 08/08/2012 6:43:02 PM PDT by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: EveningStar
The article should have a sidebar on “Fragging.”
137 posted on 08/08/2012 6:43:11 PM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: dynachrome
What do you think would happen to his career if he did?

When your career is over, they call you retired. That's his status as the article makes clear.

138 posted on 08/08/2012 6:43:52 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Notice that in the past, the government used FBI agents to crack down on citizens rather than the Military?


139 posted on 08/08/2012 6:44:08 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
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To: CodeToad

Even if 10% of those numbers came to bear it would scare the poop out of any army..
That is so so true..
If only We The People could come to know and believe that our strength is real.
When push come to shove We The People will step up and find that power and there will be hell to pay.


140 posted on 08/08/2012 6:45:09 PM PDT by triSranch ( Home of J.C. Calhoun and the Birthplace and Deathbed of the Confederacy)
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To: PetroniusMaximus

ping


141 posted on 08/08/2012 6:45:50 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Alas Babylon!

That might be me in at least one of those pictures. Proud veteran of 9/12


142 posted on 08/08/2012 6:47:22 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: dynachrome
Maybe he can write a paper detailing how the Armed Forces will put down an African or a muzzie rebellion in Detroit? What do you think would happen to his career if he did?

I think that's why he used the Tea Party and South Carolina. If he had used a more realistic scenario, such as a La Raza take over of some border town, he would have been crucified in the press.

143 posted on 08/08/2012 6:47:31 PM PDT by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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To: MinorityRepublican

” Notice that in the past, the government used FBI agents to crack down on citizens rather than the Military? “

Notice that in recent years, the FBI has become increasingly more militarized??


144 posted on 08/08/2012 6:48:45 PM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: Travis McGee; Chode
#50, that about sums it up minus one critical item: a tactical move by Mordor against America's "Right" flank would seriously stretch and deplete ill-prepared/equipped local LEOs, leaving America's opportunistic "Left" flank off-leash. Most major metro areas would literally burn (LA riots nation-wide).

Once word got out that Mordor was tactically moving against the Right, it would be SHTF nation-wide. LEO morale would crumble with wide-spread desertion to protect their own families ("Honey, don't go out there, who's going to protect us?").

Dissention in military ranks would the erode command and control structure: zealous chiefs with very few indians interested in the fight ("Screw you sir, I didn't come back from Afghanistan for this.")

The world would witness and be amazed (our enemies terrified) by the true purpose behind the 2nd Amendment as Mordor's rule collapses in mere weeks if not days.

145 posted on 08/08/2012 6:49:23 PM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: MinorityRepublican
"Notice that in the past, the government used FBI agents to crack down on citizens rather than the Military?"

True.

They'll shut down the internet (NDAA), arrest whomever they want, the LSM will do a report on Climate Change, and all will be well.

See you in the Gulag.

146 posted on 08/08/2012 6:49:42 PM PDT by SnuffaBolshevik (In a tornado, even turkeys can fly.)
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To: centurion316
Benson is not the problem, he views this as an academic exercise.

In that spirit, allow me to present three difficulties he and his sidekick omitted:

  1. Vidcams. There are lotsa videos about police brutality on Youtube, and any departure from restrictive ROEs will ignite a flurry of Youtube videos documenting it. Even if there are no incidents, more than a few Americans will (anonymously) claim that there are such incidents, which are being suppressed; if there's enough gumption for a domestic insurgency, it's a sure bet that there'd be widespread hostility to FedGov. Assuming that any such insurgency is more than a gang that ends up being carted off to the hoosegow by the cops.
    To bring in the Civil War, how would world opinion have reacted had there been vidcams, citizen journalists and Youtube at the time Gen. Sherman and his forces burned down Atlanta? The footage would have been much worse than the worst out of Vietnam - and all the world would have seen it. The Union's name would have been mud.
  2. 1984. It doesn't take an interpretative genius to see that Winston Smith's job at the Ministry of Truth was based on George Orwell's own WW2 propaganda work. By doing so, although darkly, he poisoned the well of standard propaganda work. Once the insurgents are propagandized against, the comparisons to the novel will fly around the world. The Pentagon will be called the Ministry of Love, etc.
  3. World opinion, especially in the anti-American part of the world. Any military attack on a domestic insurgency will be the "shot heard 'round the world." Foes of America will leap on the chance to portray "America" as a fascist tyranny, unmasked. Even if a Tea-Party-like group is cracked down on, few foreign lefties will resist the temptation to use the incident anyway for their own propaganda purposes. Even if FedGov succeeds in portraying the insurgents as neo-Nazis, which would quell sympathy for them in Europe, the Islamists will jump on it like the proverbial fatboy on a Twinkie. The more adventurous anti-Americans, betting on a new Civil War or quagmire, will jump on the chance to cause real trouble for the U.S., on the assumption that soldiers will have to be withdrawn from other theatres to aid in the domestic counter-insurgency.

FedGov will probably win, but it won't be easy for them. Sad to say, they'll have to win through massive censorship and intimidation of the general citizenry. And that's what Americans will suffer under afterwards, as demobilization has become one of those quaint customs from yesteryear.

147 posted on 08/08/2012 6:49:50 PM PDT by danielmryan
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To: Alas Babylon!

If we are talking in “the abstract” an actual constitutional revolution would be started by one step too far by the government. (ie: Taking our weapons)

Ordinary people would then use the OWS rule book. We occupy Washington. We live in the “peoples house.” We allow no government to meet until elections.

Uh...I mean in the abstract.


148 posted on 08/08/2012 6:50:37 PM PDT by Steve Newton (And the Wolves will learn what we have shown before-We love our sheep we dogs of war. Vaughn)
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To: PowderMonkey

Good review of the history bump.

On the other hand, let’s not forget the Battle of Athens, TN. . .


149 posted on 08/08/2012 6:53:47 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: DTogo

It’s a scenario that could never be contained. The COL (ret.) and his female “civil war expert” sidekick are idiots on the level of the picnickers who sallied forth from Washington in surries to witness the rapid thrashing of the rebels at Bull Run 1.


150 posted on 08/08/2012 6:54:04 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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