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EDITORIAL: The Civil War of 2016: U.S. military officers are told to plan to fight Americans
The Washington Times ^ | August 8, 2012 | Editorial

Posted on 08/08/2012 4:50:24 PM PDT by EveningStar

Imagine Tea Party extremists seizing control of a South Carolina town and the Army being sent in to crush the rebellion. This farcical vision is now part of the discussion in professional military circles.

At issue is an article in the respected Small Wars Journal titled “Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland: A ‘Vision’ of the Future.”

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: 2016; army; banglist; civilwar; cwii; cwiiping; teaparty
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To: DTogo
add to that, we know where many of them live/sleep at night...
151 posted on 08/08/2012 6:54:04 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: cripplecreek
In case you haven’t noticed, the GOP is nearly as nasty toward the tea party as the democrats. We threaten their power even more than we do the democrats.

The two worst words inside the Beltway these days are "crony capitalism." Both parties are infected. This is why Sarah Palin will not be offered a speaking role at the GOP convention. This is why we need to do everything we can to get Sarah Palin on the ballot in 2016.

152 posted on 08/08/2012 6:55:49 PM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: centurion316

The concern is that a peer reviewed magazine saw fit to publish this monstrosity. Who do you think runs these little think tanks? Here’s a clue friend Centurion36. It ain’t the Tea Party.

I think Benson knew exactly what he was doing. It’s a calculated step to attempt to desensitize the American military to the thought of killing American citizens on American soil. The trouble is he got caught and attracted a lot of attention. Hell, the President has already claimed unlimited, unreviewable authority to kill Americans he “deems” to be an unlawful combatant anywhere on the planet. Why not Tea Party types in Darlington?

I will thank your friend for letting us see what’s behind the mask.

Next time you see him ask him this. How wold his little scenario handle Flag Officers catching bullets and blades in Texas, Georgia, and all over rural America in response? How would he deal with folks sabotaging rail lines 200 miles from Darlington so his troops can’t be resupplied in quantity? How would he deal with losing 25 or 35% of his troops because they told their Officers to go **** themselves?

Then carefully note the look on his face when he responds. It will be instructive.


153 posted on 08/08/2012 6:57:06 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: centurion316

I meant his current career as a writer of bad fiction. I am assuming he and weber got paid for writing that article.


154 posted on 08/08/2012 6:58:47 PM PDT by dynachrome ("Our forefathers didn't bury their guns. They buried those that tried to take them.")
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To: sagar

Google “shoot twice and go home.”

And consider some 18,000,000 participate in annual “Operation Deer Season”.


155 posted on 08/08/2012 7:00:06 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: Lurker

Either that or the good Colonel was trying to warn us.

Hummm


156 posted on 08/08/2012 7:01:37 PM PDT by Steve Newton (And the Wolves will learn what we have shown before-We love our sheep we dogs of war. Vaughn)
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To: ScubieNuc; All

“My son is in the Army, I can guarentee you that he stands with “the people” as per the Constitution as per his oath. I’ll have to ask him what he thinks the majority of his brother soldiers would do, though.”

I can answer that. They(we) would never fire upon U.S. Citizens. U.S.Army personnel are incalcated in the below:

Soldier’s Creed

I am an American Soldier.

I am a warrior and a member of a team.

I serve the people of the United States, and live the Army Values.

I will always place the mission first.

I will never accept defeat.

I will never quit.

I will never leave a fallen comrade.

I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills.

I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.

I am an expert and I am a professional.

I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy, the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.

I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.

I am an American Soldier.


157 posted on 08/08/2012 7:03:39 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: redgolum
"Most of the “TEA” party is older, conservative, and set in their ways. That is not the group you turn to in a war. They have to much to loose."

Actually I think it is just the opposite of what you said. The older you get, the closer you are to dying anyway, and you finally realize there is really nothing to lose (you can't take it with you), and that there are some things worse than death.

158 posted on 08/08/2012 7:03:54 PM PDT by semaj
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To: Travis McGee; null and void; dragonblustar; WildHighlander57; netmilsmom; tomdavidd; Freeper; ...

Article, then check out excellent comments/ data throughout thread.

159 posted on 08/08/2012 7:04:15 PM PDT by LucyT
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To: Cheerio

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/7/the-civil-war-of-2016/

Sorry, I tried to get cute and copy a link right to the comments, but it didn’t work. The link above is the article with comments below. Takes a long time to load....


160 posted on 08/08/2012 7:08:00 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Hokestuk

Thanks Hoke. Sorry for the bum link.


161 posted on 08/08/2012 7:09:52 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: mo

And that is why Obummer played Abe Lincoln on the way to the white house. I have thought since then that he will be the P when it happens. But Romney might be the one who issues war against the population orders


162 posted on 08/08/2012 7:11:55 PM PDT by winodog
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To: cripplecreek
In case you haven’t noticed, the GOP is nearly as nasty toward the tea party as the democrats. We threaten their power even more than we do the democrats.

I think the brand name of "Republican" has been tarnished. It's country club, not Joe the Plumber. Come 2014 or 2016 or whenever, I don't want to go 3rd party. We need to start finding out whether starting in some local areas the Repub party can be folded away and replaced with the TParty, and whether on a national level we can do the same thing. Then the country club GOP brand would be done with.

163 posted on 08/08/2012 7:13:36 PM PDT by Hokestuk
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To: Travis McGee

“Takes a long time to load....”

Loads great. Ya just need faster Gerbils.


164 posted on 08/08/2012 7:13:36 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: EveningStar

165 posted on 08/08/2012 7:14:04 PM PDT by Prospero
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To: EveningStar

166 posted on 08/08/2012 7:15:23 PM PDT by Prospero
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To: bmwcyle

You Must NOT say The Name. No matter how interesting the article. No matter how relevant to current events. Never, ever, ever speak The Name.

Is he a bit of a smuck? Yes.

But last I checked WND articles are accepted, and they can be suffer the credibility test as well.


167 posted on 08/08/2012 7:15:44 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: CodeToad

Gerbils are way to fast for me. Can’t catch the little buggers.


168 posted on 08/08/2012 7:15:51 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: sagar

I refer you to Afghanistan and Iraq.

The military would have a SOB of a time “crushing” any domestic uprising. The IRA never numbered more than several hundred. The Brits controlled the whole of northern Ireland with a very professional army. They had the insurgency basically confined to an island where they controlled all approaches. The British fought on for decades, and finally had to negotiate a peace.

1) First, a domestic uprising would only happen after extreme provocation, so people nationwide would already be on edge. The uprising would never happen unless something happened to convince people that all political remedies were futile, and the government would likely start the rebellion with some overt act that went “too far”.

2) a crushing response only spreads the movement.

3) Fighting in Iraq is one thing, doing it on you own logistical tail is quite another.

4) No insurgency would face them force on force. It would be another of those fights seen all around the world involving IEDs, blackmail, ambush, deceit, and military leaders would find their families targeted for kidnap, murder, etc. This recently happened when a Mexican Marine was killed fighting Cartels. They gave him a funeral with honors. Later that night, his mother, sister, and several others were all murdered.
History shows that political leaders who ordered and supported a US military attack on American citizens would also be personal endangered, bribed, blackmailed, and neutralized.
Imagine for example, a drone operator shot dead as he stopped for gas on his way home in Nevada, a thousand miles from the war zone. No military would be safe, anywhere. The crackdown would have to be nationwide, and wouldn’t stay local. The heavy handed actions necessary would anger people who were not involved to begin with. Resentment towards the government grows.

5) Our military uses the USA as a home base. Their bases, supply depots, maintenence activites, factories, air bases etcc are extremely vulnerable and scattered.

6) The Military would have to be extremely concerned about their troops loyalty. Often they will be sypathetic to the uprising. A classic example is found in Russia. When the tanks rolled into Moscow in 1991. They were supposed to crush the pro-Yeltsin crowd. In about a half hour they were hugging the crowd, sharing tea and bread, and started shelling the Russian government building on BEHALF of the crowd.

7) Our military is amazing when used against a foreign enemy. But if it was turned against the American people, here in America, you would quickly see it swallowed up into a nationwide chasm of national disorder. Our military just spent 10 years in Iraq which is about the size of Texas. It was bled white, and most units did 3, 4, or 5 tours.

8) In recent wars, the military could always rest and refit here. They knew their families were safe at home. They knew that in general the nation was behind them. Its a very different animal when none of that is true.

9) The chaos causes extreme business disruptions in our close coupled, just in time economy. This adds pressure to quickly negotiate. Politicians are under unbelievable pressure. The opposition party is seen as an alternative to the one that sparked the insurgency.

There won’t be a Gettysburg in modern insurgency. There will be a nasty insurgency, with a political component that would be as important as the killing wing.

This experience is best left to the imagination.


169 posted on 08/08/2012 7:17:19 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: null and void

Good thing too! I was getting ready to threaten to report you to the mods!


170 posted on 08/08/2012 7:18:36 PM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to the tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: Travis McGee
"There are at least 20X the number of veterans still of useful age with appropriate knowledge and experience, than there are on active duty plus LEOs and FLEAs."

A few of us old farts know what "Hoka Hey" means. Personally I'm no Phil Carson, but I don't want to live on my knees.

171 posted on 08/08/2012 7:19:22 PM PDT by VR-21
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To: Travis McGee
ROFL!


172 posted on 08/08/2012 7:21:53 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: Travis McGee
Ever seen a civil war in a nation where over 50% of the population own firearms, and 10% own scoped deer rifles capable of hitting a soldier on guard or checkpoint duty at 400+ yards?

Travis, that's an idea for a movie, and one with an uplifting conservative message, not the normal leftist Hollywood cr@p.

173 posted on 08/08/2012 7:22:10 PM PDT by Hokestuk
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To: DesertRhino

Good list. Add one more thing: The US military is funded by the promise of US taxpayers. If the US taxpayers stop paying into the fed the military ceases to receive funding and the little credit extended by foreign nations might be zero if they feel the fed won’t win.


174 posted on 08/08/2012 7:24:17 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: Travis McGee
"the Constitution allows the president broad leeway in times of insurrection."

I wonder if Obama will execute a pre-emptive strike? Can't be too cautious when it comes to the safety of the nation in the face of domestic terrorism.


175 posted on 08/08/2012 7:27:18 PM PDT by garjog
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To: ChildOfThe60s

In Chile those resisting Allende caused havoc by very simple means, for example dumping tacks and nails on the roads leading into and out of the cities.


176 posted on 08/08/2012 7:30:59 PM PDT by wintertime (:-))
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To: Hokestuk

I totally agree. The eGOP took it away and we need to take it back.


177 posted on 08/08/2012 7:31:28 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: Lurker
Who do you think runs these little think tanks?

Actually, I don't need to do much thinking about this, I actually do know most of the folks running these "little think tanks". I'm guessing that you don't, but I promise not to take advantage

I also know some of the real wackos running offices in the White House, DHS, and DoD (civilian, political appointees). These guys should scare your socks off, that's been my reaction. Your concerns are real, you just need to identify the real threat.

178 posted on 08/08/2012 7:32:34 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: arthurus

“Why troops? they can use drones to selectively kill whomever they want or to blast the whole town.”

And noooobody knows who the drone drivers are, where they are based, where the drones are built and repaired, where the CEO and officers of that company live, etc etc.
It wouldn’t be as one sided as anyone thinks. Seems our military would do well to speak to someone who can tell the stories of the IRA, the Cartels, red brigades in italy, baeder-meinhoff, etc.

Its dangerously flawed thinking to think a few drone shots can take care of a rebellion.


179 posted on 08/08/2012 7:33:17 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: centurion316

Can you expand on that?

I would like to hear more


180 posted on 08/08/2012 7:34:13 PM PDT by Steve Newton (And the Wolves will learn what we have shown before-We love our sheep we dogs of war. Vaughn)
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To: DesertRhino

Huge point, you are saying the war could be won.
The leftist socialists to help usher in the 82 United States of Amerixico may envision a slaughter of the “dangerous” Tea Partiers, to also take their property and redistribute it. But they might have another thing coming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RRoCkncvYo&info=JudasPriest_YouGotAnotherThingComing


181 posted on 08/08/2012 7:35:04 PM PDT by Hokestuk
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To: af_vet_rr
The writers political leanings were showing early. This “The Great Recession of the early twenty-first century lasts far longer than anyone anticipated. After a change in control of the White House and Congress in 2012, the governing party cuts off all funding that had been dedicated to boosting the economy or toward relief.”

It must be inferred that should the republicans win in November this will be the result.

182 posted on 08/08/2012 7:38:24 PM PDT by lag along
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To: null and void; Admin Moderator
I'm all in for this *PING* list ; nully, consider yourself on double-secret probation for being reported to the MOD if you don't put me on the list ASAP.

Cheers!

183 posted on 08/08/2012 7:42:31 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers

No way I could say no to that!


184 posted on 08/08/2012 7:44:18 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1297 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: CodeToad

Very true, the money and financial component cannot be overestimated. It’s one thing when one house or compund is surrounded and dealt with. Its totally another to conduct operations against a widespread movement in a city or region.


185 posted on 08/08/2012 7:47:22 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: EveningStar

bfl.


186 posted on 08/08/2012 7:48:10 PM PDT by PalmettoMason (South Carolinians need to start choosing a primary challenger to Nikki Haley NOW!!!!!!!)
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To: mo; EveningStar; SunkenCiv; 2ndDivisionVet; null and void
To the Left, this very action will be characterized as “insurrection”....or a “civil rights violation”...or “oppression”..and it WILL ignite the next Civil War....which will be fought over the RIGHT to continue to enslave the productive and their offspring through Constitutional circumvention, to the illusions/delusions of Progressivism/Leftism.

Obama mistakenly believes he can foment a Communist revolution in the United States. See here.

In his wet dream he thinks his ilk can seed/foment gangs of roving militant thugs akin to the Red Guards as did Mao but put the blame for their atrocities on "right-wingers" and what he has not yet dared to call "counter-revolutionaries"; see here.

NO cheers, unfortunately.

187 posted on 08/08/2012 7:58:40 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: DuncanWaring
A professor at the Joint Forces Staff College was relieved of duty

Benson is a contractor so your analogy is weak. But, your point is valid. What he has done will meet with great approval amongst the Obama crowd.

188 posted on 08/08/2012 7:59:25 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: DuncanWaring
A professor at the Joint Forces Staff College was relieved of duty

Benson is a contractor so your analogy is weak. But, your point is valid. What he has done will meet with great approval amongst the Obama crowd.

189 posted on 08/08/2012 7:59:43 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: EveningStar

You would be a fool to stare down the barrel of a military force. But a guerilla force is difficult to deal with, and the military knows it. We have more guns in this country than the Afghans do.


190 posted on 08/08/2012 8:01:45 PM PDT by RatRipper (Obama, YOU LIE!!! . . .again and again and again and again, ad infinitum. . . .)
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To: CodeToad
I've never been able to locate a book devoted to the subject. There are lots of books that mention the breakup, but most offer few details.

Some of the best works on the subject are Shelby Foote's classic Civil War series and James McPherson's also classic Battle Cry of Freedom. Grant's autobiography delves into the subject a bit as do books like Lee's Lieutenants and South of Appomattox. There is information to be found in numerous biographies and autobiographies, but since these works focus on a specific individual, they are often skewed in their objectivity.

191 posted on 08/08/2012 8:09:47 PM PDT by Stonewall Jackson ("I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.")
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To: Stonewall Jackson

Thanks!


192 posted on 08/08/2012 8:16:55 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: RatRipper

I hear there are some people who are SO treacherous, they will warmly wave at the arriving troops, even though they are actually supporters of the guerilla force!


193 posted on 08/08/2012 8:21:41 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: wintertime
In Chile those resisting Allende caused havoc by very simple means, for example dumping tacks and nails on the roads leading into and out of the cities.

Good point.

Wars and domestic crisis's like we are discussing often occur when one side (our fascist lords) misjudge their enemies and push too hard. They don't necessarily mean to ignite a conflict, but underestimate the tolerance limits of their opponent.

Also, many here make cogent arguments as to why a military crackdown in the US would be an un-winnable disaster for DC. The problem is that the wannabe despots in DC are ignorant, full of hubris and can't comprehend of such a move blowing up in their faces. Which is just the thinking process that starts the whole scenario going.

The Soviets were high and mighty and couldn't conceive of the $hitstorm they were jumping into in Afghanistan. And they paid for it big time, in blood and money. But once started, they couldn't back out. They could only throw more bodies and resources at a black hole.

I'm of the opinion that the lefties in DC are ignorant and stubborn enough to light the fire and then refuse to back out, regardless of the destruction that would ensue.

194 posted on 08/08/2012 8:23:13 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: ChildOfThe60s
but underestimate the tolerance limits of their opponent.

Oops, should have said *overestimate*

195 posted on 08/08/2012 8:26:53 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: null and void

Dammit! Either add me or consider yourself on report to the Admin!


196 posted on 08/08/2012 8:27:22 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: danielmryan

I say again, Benson is not the problem. The problem are the political hacks in the current regime who are encouraging this type of discussion and are trying to shape it in a purely partisan political direction. My friend Benson is naive in this arena, his coauthor probably knows exactly what she is doing. The guys encouraging this sort of stuff operate in an entirely different sphere and its core is at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.


197 posted on 08/08/2012 8:29:05 PM PDT by centurion316 ( I)
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To: centurion316

I am more than willing to be educated. And don’t think for a minute that I’m not scared to my core by the monsters in charge of our government.


198 posted on 08/08/2012 8:29:35 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: EveningStar

This country is toast. Only 22% of the people bothered to vote in the WA state elections yesterday even though the ballots are mailed home. Obama gives stand down orders for the occuturds but raises the flag against conservative tea partiers.

The problem with the right is that we are too passive. So passive that we are barely breathing. If the right actually stood firm, slap down liberalism, we wouldn’t have to worry about the threat from the government.


199 posted on 08/08/2012 8:31:29 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: ChildOfThe60s
They could rule the country by force in principle. The reality could be very different. What size standing army would be needed to successfully stamp out guerrilla warfare in a county this large and diverse *if* (a significant if, I'll grant you) there were sufficient numbers in resistance?

Given the problems we had in Afghanistan and Iraq, we would need a military dozens of times larger.

And don't forget that if the US military were magically turned into a group of thugs who hated America and the Constituation, and started acting all Gestapo here in the states, plenty of countries overseas would stir things up in Africa, parts of Asia, the Middle East, and maybe even closer to home in the Americas, further stretching the military. Don't think for one instant that certain groups in the Middle East would not attempt to bring the Caliphate back by violence, and don't think for one instant the drug lords in Mexico, Central and South America wouldn't take advantage of things. And we can't leave out the Chinese and Russians.

That is why Big Brother is taking control incrementally. A sudden move would invoke chaos.

They don't need the military for this kind of stuff, and they run a big risk of large parts of the military refusing to follow such orders.

You know why they don't need the military? Because we are in a Brave New World. The majority of people in this country care more about who won that American Idols crap on Fox or that Dancing with Celebrities on ABC or what team won what game last night than they do about politics.

We are already on that path to government control, and both parties fully support it. It was a Republican White House with the backing of both parties in Congress that got increased federal control over the schools with No Child Left Behind. It was a Republican White House with the backing of both parties in Congress that got the PATRIOT Act pushed through (and many in Congress didn't bother reading it). The GOP is supposed to be the party that is against Big Government, but it fully embraced it under George W. Bush, and the GOP gave us Big Government candidates with McCain and now Romney. I could go on and on, but the point is, we as Americans, as a whole, have continued to re-elect people from both parties to Congress that are creating the tools for government control, and we are signing off on Big Government presidential candidates like McCain and Romney.

This battle was lost, our own party screwed us over, and they did it out in the open with our consent.
200 posted on 08/08/2012 8:34:24 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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