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EDITORIAL: The Civil War of 2016: U.S. military officers are told to plan to fight Americans
The Washington Times ^ | August 8, 2012 | Editorial

Posted on 08/08/2012 4:50:24 PM PDT by EveningStar

Imagine Tea Party extremists seizing control of a South Carolina town and the Army being sent in to crush the rebellion. This farcical vision is now part of the discussion in professional military circles.

At issue is an article in the respected Small Wars Journal titled “Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland: A ‘Vision’ of the Future.”

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: 2016; army; banglist; civilwar; cwii; cwiiping; teaparty
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To: DuncanWaring; autumnraine
Report him to the Mods!

THREATEN to report him to the Mods.

51 posted on 08/08/2012 5:33:13 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1297 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: 98ZJ USMC

If one visits the website of Small Wars Journal, there one will find readers’ response to the article:
http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/full-spectrum-operations-in-the-homeland-a-“vision”-of-the-future

One reader notes that:
“Facts: ...The Department of Homeland Security has purchased over 450 Million rounds of .40 caliber hollow-point rounds, and has been buying up 5.56mm (NATO standard round) ammunition as well. The DHS has no foreign warfighting mission or capability. 450 Million rounds is excessive for any agency to claim for training purposes...”


52 posted on 08/08/2012 5:33:13 PM PDT by docbnj
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To: cripplecreek
>"This is one of the problems I have with perpetual war."

We have to change tactics!

The slammies have a big advantage in experience in the perpetual war style. They've been at it for 1400 years now. And like all death cults, they are in it till they are dead.


They leave us about as much choice as Japan did. They were almost exterminated.

isSlime must END!

53 posted on 08/08/2012 5:33:32 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: null and void

Hummm

I see your point.

Then we will just have to educate our military a little better.

Maybe we should add this to their next classes on “protecting sexual preferences.”


54 posted on 08/08/2012 5:35:11 PM PDT by Steve Newton (And the Wolves will learn what we have shown before-We love our sheep we dogs of war. Vaughn)
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To: EveningStar

You have to threaten to report him to the admin for the nutjob conspiracies, lol


55 posted on 08/08/2012 5:36:15 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: cripplecreek
Imagine Tea Party extremists seizing control of a South Carolina town and the Army being sent in to crush the rebellion.

I can imagine the military encircling DC and frog marching Reid,Pelosi,Odungo and about 42 Czars to prison

56 posted on 08/08/2012 5:36:53 PM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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Comment #57 Removed by Moderator

To: EveningStar

Lyrics to Bright Sunny South :
From the bright sunny south to the war, I was sent, E’er the days of my boyhood, I scarcely had spent. From it’s cool shady forests and deep flowing streams, Ever fond in my mem’ry and sweet in my dreams.

Oh, my dear little sister, I still see her tears. When I had to leave home in our tender years. And my sweet gentle mother, so dear to my heart, It grieved me sincerely when we had to part.

Said my kind-hearted father as he took my hand: “As you go in defence of our dear native land, “Son, be brave but show mercy whenever you can. “Our hearts will be with you, ‘til you ‘turn again.”

In my bag there’s a bible to show me the way, Through my twelfth year on earth and to Heaven some day. I will shoulder my musket and brandish my sword, In defence of this land and the word of the Lord. From the bright sunny south to the war, I was sent, E’er the days of my boyhood, I scarcely had spent. From it’s cool shady forests and deep flowing streams, Ever fond in my mem’ry and sweet in my dreams.

Oh, my dear little sister, I still see her tears. When I had to leave home in our tender years. And my sweet gentle mother, so dear to my heart, It grieved me sincerely when we had to part.

Said my kind-hearted father as he took my hand: “As you go in defence of our dear native land, “Son, be brave but show mercy whenever you can. “Our hearts will be with you, ‘til you ‘turn again.”

In my bag there’s a bible to show me the way, Through my twelfth year on earth and to Heaven some day. I will shoulder my musket and brandish my sword, In defence of this land and the word of the Lord.


58 posted on 08/08/2012 5:38:20 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: ChildOfThe60s
Anyone that says something can’t happen simply because it hasn’t happened before is living in a fool’s paradise.

Normalcy Bias

59 posted on 08/08/2012 5:39:30 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: PowderMonkey
Nor does one expect the GOP to side with freedom and liberty. Simply look at the GOP passing the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007, which basically usurped State powers and the gave the President the ability to issue martial law at any incident.
60 posted on 08/08/2012 5:39:56 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: EveningStar
Now we understand the wisdom of our Founding Fathers when they warned that keeping a standing army could be dangerous to our freedom.

http://www.examiner.com/article/army-colonel-ignites-firestorm-with-article-on-crushing-a-tea-party-insurgency

61 posted on 08/08/2012 5:40:34 PM PDT by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: mnehring; COUNTrecount; Nowhere Man; FightThePower!; C. Edmund Wright; jacob allen; Travis McGee; ..

Second ping, just in case...


62 posted on 08/08/2012 5:42:21 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1297 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: EveningStar

If the scenario that this bird-brained former Colonel is trying to push ever comes about, I hope he is called on to surpress said “insurrection”. Because if he is, his biggest problem will not be the so-called insurgents that he is trying to crush. It will be the E-8 or E-9 standing behind him with a pistol.

I don’t think that they would let him get too far with this little plan of his.


63 posted on 08/08/2012 5:43:22 PM PDT by Have Ruck - Will Travel (Hmm, I wonder what would happen if I...)
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To: rawcatslyentist

We need to stop fighting middle eastern wars for them. Hell the last two nation middle eastern war that didn’t directly involve us was between Iraq and Iran.

If they want to fight among themselves we should let them. We have all the oil, gas, coal, hydroelectric we need right here. If the rest of the world wants to get involved let them.


64 posted on 08/08/2012 5:43:33 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: EveningStar
"Bonus Army" WWI veterans marching on WashDC US Army Cavalry, including such notables as Douglas MacArthur and Dwight Eisenhower, preparing to attack `Bonus Army' My grandfather, a KATY RR union man and his son, US regular army, had some spirited discussions on this topic.
65 posted on 08/08/2012 5:43:39 PM PDT by tumblindice (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: null and void

oh yeah...got it and it is coming fast


66 posted on 08/08/2012 5:43:53 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
“So when US soldiers start attacking US citizens, where exactly does their allegiance lie?”

My Great greatg great great grandfather asked in 1775:
“So When the British soldiers start attacking British citizens, where exactly does their allegiance lie?”

The answer then and now is, their allegiance is to the King. Or President or what ever he calls himself.

67 posted on 08/08/2012 5:44:18 PM PDT by Tupelo (TeaPartier ..... but no longer a Republican)
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To: EveningStar

Buckle down everyone. Hard times are around the corner.

(not that I need to tell the majority of this crowd the above; but it certainly does feel like things are accelerating....)


68 posted on 08/08/2012 5:44:35 PM PDT by wolf24
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To: EveningStar
I am trying to maintain an even keel reading the original article--but it's hard.

The plain truth, for anyone who has objectively paid attention for the past 3 years, is that the Tea Party is non-violent. And, on the other hand, the Occupy Whereever movement has seen numerous instances of violent criminal activity.

That having been said, I am truly disappointed that an otherwise excellent military thought experiment has been tinged with such explosive political content. If I were in the position to publish such a paper, I would not have ascribed the rebellion to any particular real world political movement of today by name. It is in fact irrelavent to the discussion in the article. In other words, the actions of the "Fifth U.S. Army" in the scenario would be the same no matter what the political alignment of the rebels.

This guy needs to be more careful.

On the other hand, I respectfully submmit that if the State of Texas would secede from the Union in 2016, a 2nd term Obama Administration would lack the funds to reconquer it without resorting to nuclear weapons.

69 posted on 08/08/2012 5:45:09 PM PDT by Lysandru
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To: Rebelbase

Don’t forget 1996 LA Riots. The UN was close to having boots on the ground. Never letting an opportunity go to waste...


70 posted on 08/08/2012 5:46:10 PM PDT by endthematrix (The Name of the Game is BAILOUT.)
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To: EveningStar
The last paragraph of this article is the most important:
A professor at the Joint Forces Staff College was relieved of duty in June for uttering the heresy that the United States is at war with Islam. The Obama administration contended the professor had to be relieved because what he was teaching was not U.S. policy. Because there is no disclaimer attached to the Small Wars piece, it is fair to ask, at least in Col. Benson’s case, whether his views reflect official policy regarding the use of U.S. military force against American citizens.(emphasis mine - DW)

71 posted on 08/08/2012 5:47:38 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: ScubieNuc

Yes, take on the Tea Party when you have a war in the inner cities being ignored every day for decades.


72 posted on 08/08/2012 5:47:53 PM PDT by Average Al (Forbidden fruit leads to many nasty jams.)
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To: Rebelbase
It's already happened before:

I know. But I didn't want to get into an argument with anyone that claimed it had not.

73 posted on 08/08/2012 5:48:18 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: endthematrix

1992


74 posted on 08/08/2012 5:48:41 PM PDT by endthematrix (The Name of the Game is BAILOUT.)
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To: centurion316
The problem with Benson is the culprit is made up out of whole cloth. The TEA party is simply not going to do such a thing. E.V.E.R.

TEA party /= Militia Movement. Totally different things. Does Colonel Benson not know there is a difference? I can see how the university professor Weber could think such a disparaging thing, but your friend the Colonel?

I would venture to say that millions of Americans sympathize and support TEA party values. Not so about the militia movement. So in making up this unrealistic boogie man he is actually insulting those in the TEA party and those who support it's values.

My proof, by the way, is visual:

Here are just a few ACCURATE photos of REAL TEA Partiers:

So are Grandpa and Grandma really going to take over Darlington?

Not likely. Much more likely the the OWS will riot and kill, burn down, and destroy. The whole thing is LIBERAL propaganda meant to INSULT us.

Finally, I leave you with one further truth. Look at this, as to who was peaceful and who was not:



75 posted on 08/08/2012 5:48:55 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: PowderMonkey

Ruby Ridge did not involve the US Army, but the FBI and the Marshals Service.

The Wikipedia article is rather comprehensive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

Large cash payments were eventually awarded to the surviving members of the Weaver family, but the government agents who murdered Randy Weaver’s wife Vicki and his son Sammy were never punished. The whole affair was a nightmare from beginning to end.


76 posted on 08/08/2012 5:51:17 PM PDT by docbnj
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To: MileHi
ChildOfThe60s ~ Anyone that says something can’t happen simply because it hasn’t happened before is living in a fool’s paradise.

MileHi ~ Normalcy Bias

How much more a fool's paradise is it when one says something can't happen even though it has happened multiple times before?

77 posted on 08/08/2012 5:52:33 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1297 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: Travis McGee; SLB
That's pretty darn spooky.

If such orders were to come down, you would see a schism within the military on par with the breakup of the old US Army in the days leading up to the First American Civil War. Contrary to what modern "historians" like to state, loyalties were not defined by North and South. There were many officers from the North who sided with the Confederacy and many from the South who sided with the Union.

78 posted on 08/08/2012 5:55:59 PM PDT by Stonewall Jackson ("I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.")
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To: EveningStar

Posse Comitatus
I’ve been around some of those red team boys and they couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag. This is just another old retired guy trying to sell snake oil. He’d better serve the country greeting people at Walmart.


79 posted on 08/08/2012 5:56:54 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: NY Attitude

Later.


80 posted on 08/08/2012 5:57:44 PM PDT by NY Attitude (Make love not war but be prepared for either.)
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To: gingerbread
Meanwhile in the liberal side of it all, there are the OWS, causing all kinds of mayhem in every part of the country. Just look at what they did in Portland? Yet, whenever there is talk of “INSURRECTIONS”, these Washington flea brains are preparing a war against the TEA PARTY.

Correct. Further, we already know what their playbook is. They have published it.

Link: The Coming Insurrection by The Invisible Committee

And yet, we so zero wargaming in response. Rather, we see wargaming in response to individuals who I call "LLPHers" (Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness radicals").

81 posted on 08/08/2012 5:57:56 PM PDT by wolf24
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To: EveningStar; Lazamataz; Jim Robinson

LOL, well played.

I don’t care how much JimRob doesn’t like that guy, those threads should have been allowed to stand. This is an important subject. I saw two of those threads disappear, yours and Laz’s.


82 posted on 08/08/2012 5:58:10 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: aruanan

A constitutional loop-hole that an unscrupulous president could drive an M1A1 through.


83 posted on 08/08/2012 5:58:40 PM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: EveningStar

Every active, former and retired military person should be a member of Oath Keepers!!

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/


84 posted on 08/08/2012 6:01:04 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: Travis McGee

It is with great sadness that I say, here and now, that I agree with you. I virtually always agree with you, Travis....it’s the topic and your dead-on response that brings the sadness.


85 posted on 08/08/2012 6:01:17 PM PDT by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: docbnj
"Large cash payments were eventually awarded to the surviving members of the Weaver family, but the government agents who murdered Randy Weaver’s wife Vicki and his son Sammy were never punished."

Lon Horiuchi.

Do you think he's sleeping well tonight?

86 posted on 08/08/2012 6:02:54 PM PDT by SnuffaBolshevik (In a tornado, even turkeys can fly.)
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To: Alas Babylon!
The problem with Benson is the culprit is made up out of whole cloth. The TEA party is simply not going to do such a thing. E.V.E.R.

Ah, but there's the rub. It doesn't matter. Anymore than it mattered that the communists *did not* set the Reichstag Fire.

Doesn't matter if it is done by a bunch of Arabs in full Arab garb,shouting "Allah Akkbar". It WILL be the TEA Party.

Don't be naive.

87 posted on 08/08/2012 6:03:21 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: Travis McGee
"...and somehow allowed the lady to hijack his half-byline."

Your comment prompted me to look for a link to the article being talked about (instead of the linked Washington Times piece above this thread). Thanks. I'll read the piece in the Journal and look further into it.


88 posted on 08/08/2012 6:03:38 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: ChildOfThe60s
During the Cuban Missile Crisis, the veterans of WWII and Korea in the town where I live were notified there would be an automatic recall to duty and they would report to a certain person in town for orders.

My old man had served in the Pacific in WWII and had to sign a statement saying he would order troops to fire on American citizens if he was ordered to do so.

89 posted on 08/08/2012 6:05:40 PM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: EveningStar

Why troops? they can use drones to selectively kill whomever they want or to blast the whole town. There wouldn’t have to be any “boots on the ground” at all. They have their prototype at Waco but much more advanced technology to get the job done. You just destroy the whole place. That will keep other places and groups from getting similar notions. Good soviet thinking. There seems to be lots of it at the national level and in our local police departments, too.


90 posted on 08/08/2012 6:07:01 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson)
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To: PowderMonkey

You forgot New Orleans after Katrina.


91 posted on 08/08/2012 6:07:40 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: ScubieNuc
My son is in the Army, I can guarentee you that he stands with “the people” as per the Constitution as per his oath. I’ll have to ask him what he thinks the majority of his brother soldiers would do, though.

My son is in the Marines, my daughter in the Air Force, and I can guarantee you their loyalties are the same.
92 posted on 08/08/2012 6:08:07 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: Travis McGee
Ever seen a civil war in a nation where over 50% of the population own firearms, and 10% own scoped deer rifles capable of hitting a soldier on guard or checkpoint duty at 400+ yards?

Not a civil war, but the Winter War where the initial Soviet Invasion of Finland basically collapsed due to a few battalions of ski troops cutting the supplies of the mechanized Russian forces. The Russians made the best of it and went into defensive laagers, but the Finns just picked them off.

93 posted on 08/08/2012 6:08:20 PM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: null and void

Crap! Now I’m on a list! (haha)


94 posted on 08/08/2012 6:09:07 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: centurion316

Maybe he can write a paper detailing how the Armed Forces will put down an African or a muzzie rebellion in Detroit?

What do you think would happen to his career if he did?

You may know him, I do not, but I see a politically correct
type.


95 posted on 08/08/2012 6:09:56 PM PDT by dynachrome ("Our forefathers didn't bury their guns. They buried those that tried to take them.")
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To: centurion316

Pass this along to Col. Benson for me, please. If he views this as an academic exercise he’s an idiot who should be relieved of his duties at once. He’s unfit to wear the uniform.


96 posted on 08/08/2012 6:10:04 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: ScubieNuc
What will the officers do? The rank and will follow orders, at least at first. History has shown that. In this case, bring in troops from California or New York.
97 posted on 08/08/2012 6:10:30 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Alas Babylon!

Always good to see a post that gets it right.


98 posted on 08/08/2012 6:10:51 PM PDT by reasonisfaith (Why do you seek the living among the dead? (Luke 24:5))
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To: DuncanWaring

“whether his views reflect official policy regarding the use of U.S. military force against American citizens”

True, and that’s why I am not responding that the military is gearing up to attack Americans. However, I have no doubt that the military has plans to quell a rebellion if needed, and I would be surprised if they didn’t.


99 posted on 08/08/2012 6:11:51 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: Tupelo
“So When the British soldiers start attacking British citizens, where exactly does their allegiance lie?”

The answer then and now is, their allegiance is to the King. Or President or what ever he calls himself.

Apples and oranges.

By the time King George III sent British troops to quell the unruly American colonists, we'd already become a separate people. His soldiers weren't leveling their weapons at their own countrymen. By that time, we were 'countrymen' in name only - which is one of the chief reasons we became unruly to begin with.

An entirely different dynamic would be at work if American service personnel were ordered to level their guns at American citizens. The first problems the military would encounter, would be mass desertions and mutiny in the ranks. Maybe even fragging of officers.

Those who would obey such treasonous orders, would be facing insurmountable odds against nearly a third of the American population, who would be enraged, and armed to the teeth.

The odds of prevailing militarily would be hundreds of times worse than both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars put together. A total no win scenario for the traitors and their 'King'.

100 posted on 08/08/2012 6:12:11 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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