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Talking about Mormonism would help Mitt Romney
Published in Deseret News (originated Washington Post) ^ | Aug. 8, 2012 | Michael Gerson

Posted on 08/09/2012 5:40:19 PM PDT by Colofornian

WASHINGTON — Concerning Mormons and Republicans, history offers a large helping of irony. In 1843, an Army officer named John C. Fremont led a geographical expedition of 39 men more than 1,700 miles to the shores of the Great Salt Lake. His report on the journey inspired hounded Mormons to mount their wagons and resettle in the Great Basin.

Thirteen years later in Philadelphia, Fremont became the first presidential nominee of the Republican Party, which adopted a platform opposing the "twin relics of barbarism — Polygamy, and Slavery." The slogan, and the anti-Mormon sentiment behind it, caught on. A Republican rally in Indianapolis, reportedly attended by 60,000 people, included an ox-drawn parade wagon depicting Brigham Young along with six wives dressed in hoop skirts, each with a little Brigham in her arms.

...In the typology of sociologists Robert Putnam and David Campbell, Mormons remain a rejected "out-group," unlike accepted "in-groups" such as Catholics and Jews. Large majorities of Americans perceive Mormonism as "very different" from their own religious beliefs.

But in this case, the counsel of religious reticence is wrong. Romney should not be afraid to highlight his faith.

SNIP

Questions remain about the role of Mormonism in depressing evangelical political enthusiasm. Some religious conservatives are concerned that a Romney presidency would provide theological legitimacy for a rival, proselytizing faith. But it is unclear how silence from Romney on religion would mitigate this fear. And a portion of the evangelical enthusiasm gap is explainable for another reason entirely: the suspicions of social conservatives about the authenticity of Romney's social conservatism.

SNIP

This does not mean Romney should quote from the Book of Jarom in his convention speech...

(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012issues; evangelicals; fff; inman; lds; mittromney; mormonism; ntsa; romneyandgod; spamdogpackthread
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Comment #101 Removed by Moderator

To: Colofornian

Coliform, to summarize your wordy treatise:

You’re essentially saying you want Obama for 4 more years, are you not?


102 posted on 08/10/2012 1:15:04 AM PDT by AlanGreenSpam (Obama: The First 'American IDOL' President - sponsored by Chicago NeoCom Thugs)
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To: mojitojoe

Amen! Such hatred towards Mormons is not Christian.

Well, wait... I think one could say that I absoultely DESPISE President Narcissus Obama.

Despise is a form of hate.

But do good Christians love their enemies? No, they fight them — and in fighting someone, you harbor feelings of hate.

That said, one could safely say that there is less reason to hate Mormons for some of their values (polygamy, etc.) than there are to hate someone who wants to kill you (e.g. Islamofascists) or steal your property (Socialist Obama).

These hateful Obama trolls need to learn when it is proper to hate (evil socialists) and when it is irrational to hate (Mormons who have different beliefs that don’t threaten you).


103 posted on 08/10/2012 1:28:36 AM PDT by AlanGreenSpam (Obama: The First 'American IDOL' President - sponsored by Chicago NeoCom Thugs)
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To: Colofornian
"Mom, when I grow up, I want to be an alien 'god' from near Kolob like Mitt!"
 
 
"The [my] only connection [to the Republican Party]is I'm registered as a Republican"
--Mitt RRRRRomney
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNbXdOCQQMs

104 posted on 08/10/2012 1:34:49 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: Lucas McCain

>>The DNC and the Obama Campaign would love it too. Seriously.

Nah. They don’t like the Truth any more than their Useful Idiot counterparts in the American Islamic state of Deseretistan.

What’s the occupancy limit for the space ship to Kolob?

At least L Ron Hubbard’s fiction was slightly more entertaining than Jose’s; but they and their religious work product are both frauds, nonetheless.

Does James P Lewis get Kolobian Ponzi cookies mailed to him “up the ladder” in Federal Prison?

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=James+P+Lewis+Ponzi+Mormon

Shine your little light on that, Lucas.

FAIL.


105 posted on 08/10/2012 1:47:39 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: BCW
>>They believe in Christ
 
Uhuh. As the brother of Lucifer.
 
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Mormon+Christ+brother+of+Lucifer
 
NO SALE
 
>>I don’t think we need to worry about religion
 
Maybe you should just leave it with "I don't think"  --- because Thomas Jefferson and the other folks who articulated the American Declaration of Indipendance evidently thought about the purview of religious fraudsters quite a bit:

 


"...who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time;
 
...
 
 that it is time enough for the rightful purposes of civil government, for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order; and finally, that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them. "
 
"I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN"
--The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom
--Thomas Jefferson, 1786
 

106 posted on 08/10/2012 1:53:44 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: AlanGreenSpam; mojitojoe
>>Such hatred towards Mormons is not Christian.
 
 
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Discernment+Scriptural
 
John 14:6
 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "
NIV

Do the Deseretian cultists of America's Islam beelieve that is the Truth on planet Kolob -- or did that verse get left out of the ity bity "reformed" Egyptian version of the Word?
 

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Sedge+Bee+Reformed+Eqyptian+Mormonism+Deseret


Bzzzzz.
 
 

107 posted on 08/10/2012 2:16:19 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: mojitojoe
Maybe if you did, you would see how really crazy you are. I don’t know whether to fear you or feel sorry for you.

You are a bigot, you have obsessive compulsive disorder, you are filled with hate and rage. I imagine you have no friends and everyone that knows you calls you the crazy kook.

You HATE HATE HATE HATE Mormons and you are absolutely obsessed with them for some reason. The question is why. If I was a Mormon, I would be very afraid of you and probably report you as someone to keep an eye on.

Look at your past posts, maybe it will help you realize that you really do need some help.

You are scary, really scary.

So scary you went hunting for more!!! Who are you trying to impress? YOU FAILED BIG TIME!

I forwarded your posting history to several people and they were all just in shock.

LOL!! Shocked to learn what you didn't know - or shocked to learn how UNTEACHABLE you are? That is always a give away... 'the me and everyone else' routine.

I was ashamed to even let them know I frequent this site.

Oh please, anyone posting what you just did isn't ashamed of anything! Not even ashamed of looking as a retard/unteachable!

Reminder The homos scribbled HATE on Chick fil A restaurant.

When you grow up you might want to tackle what hate is - and it is NOT exposing evil. Anyone who embraces evil - hates for it to be exposed. Go check your oil.

108 posted on 08/10/2012 4:15:26 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: SoConPubbie
Exactly.

Information is being posted and the hate is coming from those who don't want to KNOW it!

So much for 'them' even wanting to be an informed voter. That's how we got romney - immature, unteachable, not politically savy voters - they just don't care. They take it as a popularity contest and NOT about THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR AMERICA.

If their mind is so made up, someone with a least some sense would just move along or not even click on the thread. Like the PDS crowd - they just want to 'drop' their hate bombs. Truly childish liberal behavior!

109 posted on 08/10/2012 4:30:35 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name; Graybeard58; OldEarlGray

No I’m not clamoring for more - what other options do we now have at this point?

The damn press has pretty much made the decision for the rest of us that it’s going to be Romney against Obama. We as a nation have got to stop what we are doing and turn Wash around - problem is - the candidates that would be good - that are God fearing men - that have the nation at heart and would do what Reagan did - are not there?

We have allowed a media to turn against the nation - we have allowed over and over certain politicians to get in and stay in office...the people have allowed this mess we are in to be created.

It’s not that we weren’t warned. F/R is an excellent place to come and get this info - but for some reason - this nation keeps sinking in to the hole.

I don’t like Romney anymore than the rest of you like him - but I saw this coming...it’s no surprise. The Tea Party - the conservatives should have drummed him out.

I’m not happy about it what so ever - so I have no idea why people are jumping down my throat and explaining these things to me...either we are the minority and have already lost - or we are the majority and can turn things around - but the being so - there’s more of us sitting around and not taking action...I don’t know — what’s the case is???

I would hope that if Romney gets in – he approaches this office to get things back to the way they should be – in a business sense – cut taxes fro everyone – stop over burdening govt regulations – and end everything that Obama signed into law or action – including that damn health care nonsense! Belief or not – it’s what has to be done – whether he’ll do it – I have no idea…no I’m not counting on it.

Yes – I agree what you have placed on there per Thomas Jefferson – and we need traditional – god-fearing people – who have national security – international relationships on their agenda – and get the US back to the world status it once had…screw the rest of the world – enough is enough – I agree with you all – but what are the choices at this point???


110 posted on 08/10/2012 4:48:41 AM PDT by BCW (http://babylonscovertwar.com/index.html)
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To: BCW

>>and we need traditional – god-fearing people

Not a god-making one.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=the+god-makers+mormonism

>>The Tea Party - the conservatives should have drummed him out.

When Rainbow RINOs are in charge of The Party?

The solution is to put enough Tea into Capital Hill that any Rat/RINO (or other unAmerican varmint) who manages to infest the White Hut will be impeached.

Anything less is just a continuation of the present dialectic exercise in sheeple herding.


111 posted on 08/10/2012 5:03:20 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: BCW
The damn press has pretty much made the decision for the rest of us

Wrong. It was the GOP!!!

I don’t like Romney anymore than the rest of you like him - but I saw this coming...it’s no surprise. The Tea Party - the conservatives should have drummed him out.

That was the job of RS, MB and Cain. Ever wonder why they walked on eggs shells around him in during the debates but crucified Perry? If you saw this coming, you will know the answer.

We have allowed a media to turn against the nation

Only if you are a TV watcher and EASILY DECEIVED. FR certainly has done it's job of informing and JIM himself was most vocal on it. See how those right on here - NEVER HEEDED THE WARNING!

I have no idea why people are jumping down my throat and explaining these things to me.

Exaggerate much?

I would hope that if Romney gets in – he approaches this office to get things back to the way they should be – in a business sense – cut taxes fro everyone – stop over burdening govt regulations – and end everything that Obama signed into law or action – including that damn health care nonsense!

Just simply amazing!! I see you have no idea about his record in MA. Romneycare is going to repeal obamacare? You really do NOT get it!

112 posted on 08/10/2012 5:38:54 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

Well, all of the above is included in why Obama has that “What me worry?” smile on his face.


113 posted on 08/10/2012 6:09:40 AM PDT by PapaNew
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To: OldEarlGray

You must be that bunny with a pancake on it’s head.


114 posted on 08/10/2012 6:15:21 AM PDT by Lucas McCain ("The day may come when the courage of men will fail, but not this day.")
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To: Puckster

Wade Page and James Eagan Holmes have the same Jewish Gematria


115 posted on 08/10/2012 6:19:36 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: BCW

Mormons do not believe in Christ. They accept that Jesus was a man but that his father and him were unique people. The father, God, in Mormon belief, was a man before he become the god of earth. Mormons vehemently reject the trinity.


116 posted on 08/10/2012 7:10:21 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (Better the devil we can destroy than the Judas we must tolerate.)
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To: laweeks
I'm not happy with Romney as my choice since he's a devout democrat running as a RINO, but I'd rather have a U.S. citizen who loves this country than a Kenyan-born, illegal alien imposter . . . and a devout muslim besides.

I would prefer a Congress that is not corrupt. The only solution to this mess is to elect a veto proof Senate and demand that Congress impeach the pretender and try him for high crimes and misdemeaners. I would rather see Obama in prison than Romney as president.

117 posted on 08/10/2012 7:25:21 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (Better the devil we can destroy than the Judas we must tolerate.)
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To: presently no screen name

“Romneycare is going to repeal obamacare? You really do NOT get it!”

Yeah - I do get it - we don’t need govt care of any kind...I’m well aware of his pathetic record in MA. Just because I didn’t state it - doesn’t mean I don’t get it. I don’t want the SOB running on the Republican ticket any more than you or any of us on here want him.

The US has put itself in the manner of being spoon feed - we are in the minority - those of us that actually come here - read the full articles - read what others are writing - and do our part to write these senators and representatives that we voted for - hoping they will act...

Outside of an armed revolution - what else is there to do Mr High and Mighty!

I’m on your side on this issue - I don’t ROMNEY - I don’t trust the SOB - I trust the GOP either — I’m highly conservative and it boggles my mind how the US has gotten itself into this state of failure...

WTF is your problem?


118 posted on 08/10/2012 7:36:16 AM PDT by BCW (http://babylonscovertwar.com/index.html)
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To: presently no screen name

“Romneycare is going to repeal obamacare? You really do NOT get it!”

Yeah - I do get it - we don’t need govt care of any kind...I’m well aware of his pathetic record in MA. Just because I didn’t state it - doesn’t mean I don’t get it. I don’t want the SOB running on the Republican ticket any more than you or any of us on here want him.

The US has put itself in the manner of being spoon feed - we are in the minority - those of us that actually come here - read the full articles - read what others are writing - and do our part to write these senators and representatives that we voted for - hoping they will act...

Outside of an armed revolution - what else is there to do Mr High and Mighty!

I’m on your side on this issue - I don’t like ROMNEY - I don’t trust the SOB - I trust the GOP either — I’m highly conservative and it boggles my mind how the US has gotten itself into this state of failure...

WTF is your problem?


119 posted on 08/10/2012 7:36:31 AM PDT by BCW (http://babylonscovertwar.com/index.html)
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To: mojitojoe; Colofornian
FLOODING THE BOARD then, Posting the same large things over and over and over again so that any opposing views are buried. Don’t school me on internet forums. On most forums flooding like colofornians would be met with a stern warning and deleted.

I currently see only one thread here by Colofornian among the several dozens of other threads. That hardly constitutes 'flooding'.

120 posted on 08/10/2012 7:50:52 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Godzilla

Maybe he’s on about the amount of posts about mormons and how the poster seems infatuated witht hem and wantint to put them down all the time.

I don’t know much about mormons or their teachings, what I do know is that they helped to fight the homo agenda and that in itself makes me wonder how the hell can Romney be more pro homo?
I find that strange considering he also gives millions to their church.


121 posted on 08/10/2012 8:19:37 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: manc; Colofornian
I don’t know much about mormons or their teachings,

If you really research the posts, you will see that by and large they are on mormon teachings. The very article cited for this thread is taken from an official mormon publication. He also cites mormon prophets and apostles too in regards to mormon teachings.

I do know is that they helped to fight the homo agenda and that in itself makes me wonder how the hell can Romney be more pro homo? If I understand you correctly, Romney is at great odds with the general position of mormonism on homosexuality, going as far as saying homosexuals should be Boy Scout leaders - didn't he learn anything from the Penn St / Sandoskie scandal?

I find that strange considering he also gives millions to their church.

Were you to read Colofornian's posts, he relates the requirement to be a temple mormon (elite) is to give 10% of ones income annually. It is a requirement for him to maintain his temple recommend (pass).

See, I one pushes aside the swarms of those who scream 'haters' and really READS the material, one learns mormon doctrine and compares it to Christian doctrine - education. Were it 'hate' as some here would bleat, his posts would be more like those who are calling him a hater.

122 posted on 08/10/2012 8:35:39 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Lucas McCain

http://www.faithmouse.com/romney_pancake_stack.jpg

123 posted on 08/10/2012 8:42:20 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: MDspinboyredux

“Sounds like Opposition Research, to me.”

You do know this is posted on the internet for anyone who knows how to use The Google Machine? I’m betting they have some of those at the DNC - heck, if Zero wasn’t running, RINOmney might be their guy...


124 posted on 08/10/2012 12:23:16 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: RummyChick

The odds are that many ordinary people that do no such evil have the same Gematria.

It would be most interesting to see if those that commit such acts of evil have studied Gematria and convinced themselves of their destiny.


125 posted on 08/10/2012 12:48:39 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: mojitojoe
#64..great post. There are soooo many of them now, they have actually taken over.

What has happened to this once great site? Why doesn't JimRob clean up these haters?

126 posted on 08/10/2012 12:51:41 PM PDT by evad (It's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax, It's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax)
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To: BCW
Outside of an armed revolution - what else is there to do Mr High and Mighty!

Go take a nap, you exceeded your capacity.

127 posted on 08/10/2012 1:31:39 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: PapaNew

I don’t focus on barry’s facial expression - it not about him nor romney but AMERICA - the forgotten ONE!


128 posted on 08/10/2012 1:43:26 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Colofornian
Talking about Mormonism would help Mitt Romney... do WHAT?
129 posted on 08/10/2012 2:43:59 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Hey Mitt!

Ty the bar-b-que ribs - they are DELICIOUS!!!

Can't. I'm a Temple® Worthy MORMON.

WOW prohibits it.

Get back to me this winter though...

130 posted on 08/10/2012 2:45:23 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MDspinboyredux
You seem pretty angry.

That's NOTHIN!!!



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

131 posted on 08/10/2012 2:46:37 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: BCW
They believe in Christ - a different story...

Yeah a FALSE one!

QUITE a 'different' story!




"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."
---Joseph Knight's journal.


"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.
(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),
"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,
as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,
and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."


"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"
reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881
in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:
 
 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,
Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12
June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)


Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:
 
"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"
("A New Witness for Christ in America,"
Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)


"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."
---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.




132 posted on 08/10/2012 2:48:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: laweeks
I'm not happy with Romney as my choice since he's a devout democrat running as a RINO, but I'd rather have a U.S. citizen who loves this country than a Kenyan-born, illegal alien imposter . . . and a devout muslim besides.




...the presidential campaign of Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith in 1844: “Challenging Democrat James Polk and Whig Henry Clay, Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that ‘they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.’

Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church.

133 posted on 08/10/2012 2:50:18 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 1035rep
MD is just pointing out the obvious.

Lots of that goin' 'round these days...




In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.


1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)     http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng

134 posted on 08/10/2012 3:12:01 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: norwaypinesavage
All of the Mormons I’ve ever met are really really nice people.

My; what a select crowd you run with!


Your request for information has been processed.

They are NO Mormons inside of these walls.



135 posted on 08/10/2012 3:15:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: laweeks
Apparently you're quite comfortable with the illegal alien, muslim, socialist piece of garbage who lives in our White House. I am not.

What does your seminar handbook say about that?

Apparently you're quite comfortable with the Mexican descended, MORMON, deceived (or deceiving) piece of heresy who wants to live in our White House. I am not.

What does the BIBLE say about that?


2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



I would assume, by extention, that we should NOT, then, turn around and elect him to be Leader of the Free World; either.

136 posted on 08/10/2012 3:21:00 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: laweeks
Apparently you're quite comfortable with the illegal alien, muslim, socialist piece of garbage who lives in our White House. I am not.

What does your seminar handbook say about that?

Apparently you're quite comfortable with the Mexican descended, MORMON, deceived (or deceiving) piece of heresy who wants to live in our White House. I am not.

What does the BIBLE say about that?


2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



I would assume, by extention, that we should NOT, then, turn around and elect him to be Leader of the Free World; either.

137 posted on 08/10/2012 3:21:24 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MDspinboyredux
So tell me, what do Mormons feel about wealth redistribution, confiscatory taxes, a weakened military and class warfare??

Aof, TRq's, They want a STRONG militia [danites], they be doing RELIGIOUS 'warfare' now!

138 posted on 08/10/2012 3:24:13 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Are you afraid he’s going to try and convert you, like he did to the people of Massachusetts when he was governor?


139 posted on 08/10/2012 3:25:23 PM PDT by MDspinboyredux
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To: PA Engineer
They were hanging out only in the religion threads, but now have begun spamming non-religion topics.

Gimme yer lunch money!

140 posted on 08/10/2012 3:25:40 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
The main reason you believe that Mormons are non-LDS is because they didn’t sign off on the Non-Christian Emperor Constantines dictation fo the Nicene Council of the God-Christ relationship in 325 AD.

Freud strikes again!


"Mormons are non-LDS" because over a century ago they threw their GOD (one of them) under the bus in favor of statehood.

The Flds are the TRUE mormons these days!!


Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President


141 posted on 08/10/2012 3:28:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
I’m Sorry, but Constantine did a lot more damage to Christianity than what you say Joseph Smith ever did!


 

Polygamy: How it all got Started


 
 
 
Joe: Hey Emma!   Guess what!?
 
Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?
 
Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.
 
Emma: WHAT!?   You ding bat!  Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says?   After all; YOU are the one that translated it!
 
Joe: Books; schmooks.   All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!
 
 
Emma:      "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"
 
 
Joe: Silly Woman!  You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!
 
 
 
 
 

 
...and the rest is HISTORY...
 

 
 
 
 
 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
 

Or even HERE:
 

 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
 
1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
 
 
 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.



 
 
Emma: That's IT!   I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!!
 
Joe:  DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!!   Wait!!!   I hear a voice again!!!
 
 


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
 
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.


142 posted on 08/10/2012 3:29:52 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Vigilanteman
Plus, by some strange coincidence, all of the Mormon haters I've ever met are really really trashy low-lifers.

V-boy...

Oh Vboy!!

Recess is over son; time to come in from the playground...

143 posted on 08/10/2012 3:31:23 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Vigilanteman
Plus, by some strange coincidence, all of the Mormon haters I've ever met are really really trashy low-lifers.

So true!

This MORMON was REALLY a 'hater'!!!



144 posted on 08/10/2012 3:32:45 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: PA Engineer
Shouldn't this be under Religion...

YES!!

As an example of what 'good' MORMONs cannot eat in the summertime.

145 posted on 08/10/2012 3:34:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: dragonblustar
 



146 posted on 08/10/2012 3:35:02 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Artcore
Dude, you are just plain kooky.

Your judgement COULD be correct; but the jury would like to see what criteria you used ot come up with this judgement call.

147 posted on 08/10/2012 3:36:27 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian

How can anyone respect a religion that springs from perversion?

The founders of Mormonism were perverts, not just by our modern standards, but also by the standards of their own time and place. When all the phony, concocted, religious hocus-pocus gets stripped away, the simple truth about Joseph Smith and Bringem Young becomes clear - they were perverts who just made up a lot of baloney to justify their perversions. They liked little girls and they couldn’t control themselves sexually. In order to avoid the usual stigma associated with such behavior, they just made up a whole religion which could protect them from shame and prosecution.

How can anyone respect what these perverts have done?

What is the essential difference between Bringem Young and Warren Jeffs?


148 posted on 08/10/2012 3:42:55 PM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: Tamzee

“I wish it was still up so that people could get a full history of members’ activity and know what they are dealing with.”

Me too! Here’s a sampling of it...much of which has already been repeated on this thread.

Very sad and rather pitiful.”
How true. They are so blinded by their Mormon hate sight, that is all they see.
“Screw the country....as long as we don’t have a Mormon President”.
How “Christian” of them.
Wow, you even pinged the Morom hatred gang.
Too bad you don’t share your hatred of muzzies like you do with Mormons.
Some of these people are obsessed, bordering on psychosis.
Your hatred of Mormons is all you see. You don’t look at the politics, you only look at things from your personal perspective of Mormons.
Were you sexually abused by a Mormon? I am serious, it’s the only explanation for your obsession and hatred.
You’re a freakin idiot,
You little juvenile mentally challenged twerps
Why don’t you grow the f**k up?
he is not obsessed like the like s of you withe their incessant, psychotic posts.
are people who Witness the Gospel of Christ obsessed
now you are bordering on hysterics. I usually don’t push meds....but in your case PUSH.
It is obvious that something ‘really bad’ happened to her at the hands of a Mormon that fuels her unrelenting attacks on LDS.
I cannot imagine living my entire life being consumed by hatred, especially hatred for a group of people that are only expressing their freedom of religion.
There’s something just not right there. I feel sorry for anyone that has to carry the burdens of being abused.
I will pray for Colofornian tonight for God to give her the strength to confront the devils that haunt her. Perhaps we have mis-judged her hatred for a cry for help?
Are you really that stupid or are you trolling for your boy obama?
FU, obama or mit,
Meds would be very helpful.
Screw you n00b.
There seem to be a lot of Obama supporters here
LOL...you’re hypocrite in the highest order.
These anti-Romney folks are utter kooks. I swear, I feel like I’m reading unhinged posts from the DUmmies.
Sorry, but these pro-Obama folks are beyond disgusting and warped. Truly sick.
but its best to ignore and/or mock them,
These sad folks are the useful idiots to the obama gangsters to get their islamist don corleone 4 more years to f$%k America.
I don’t support mitt you fucking moron troll
Watch it there comrade! Your obamabot crimson red underwear is sticking out of your baggy pants a little.
I think you’re a fruitcake too. Batshit crazy.
the Axelrod chorus here
and the fact these few are just plain nuts!
Never mind trying to change the minds of these few kooks
Congrats on your “purity” (and your insanity).
Those who are insane and filled with hate are a very small minority here
but very loud cyber bullies
for you and the other Axelrod suckers “conservatives
we level headed conservatives, need to ignore these “lights on but nobody home”
They have no conservative sense on individual freedom. They don’t want it, because it would expose the extremist totalitarians they are.
am attacking people here who seem to have gone insane
so saith the graycrone
You’re all like the loons in “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”, wild-eyed, screaming and running from thread-to-thread throwing poop.
Calling yourselves “CHRISTIANS” is your most laughable lie.
You make sheep look like independent thinkers!
I think some of them are here from the left side and just trying to make FR look like it is filled with lunatics.
But you, the fool,
You escapees from the Cuckoo’s Nest
Once her hate posse
your man barry allowed a terrorist to go free
I think you are ill and I have nothing but pity for you
Take this politely, SIUYA. (stick it up you’re a$$)
Spam Dog Pack
you’re comprehension impaired.
My humble suggestion was that you do it your self
Go back to your DemocRAT Underwear moochelle
You are a horrible joke
Will happily add you to the SDP list
The only place I have seen so many pro Obama people is on the Daily Kos.
in your stupidity and ignorance


149 posted on 08/10/2012 3:47:02 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Elsie

Elsie,

Please don’t ping me again. I avoid reading your hate filled posts and I have never commented on any of them. Your spam is of no interest to me. Go play elsewhere.


150 posted on 08/10/2012 4:05:09 PM PDT by 1035rep (Obama: "I killed Bin Laden" ...you didn't do that. Somebody else made that happen.)
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