Skip to comments.When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
Posted on 08/13/2012 9:58:08 PM PDT by blam
When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
August 13, 2012
By Jim Karger
When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands, is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.
And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands, which I often follow with the question, And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood [in] the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?
This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.
Nice fantasy. Its not happening.
If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and when the increasingly-militarized rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition for the common good, it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.
The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.
And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who dont seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.
Also ignored (as if it didnt even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.
According to Public Intelligence:
for the last two years, the Presidents Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities. Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA.
And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.
And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is the reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state-of-the-art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day for nothing. You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.
That is your choice
for the moment.
Good point. I can’t fault your logic, that’s for sure.
We live in frightening times indeed.
I read your reply twice, and didn’t see my point addressed, though you offered a lot of useful insight.
My point was, they come to your door and ask for the deer rifle you bought in 1987 from XYZ dealer. They have the 4473 with your signature on it.
“Sorry officer, I sold that to some guy back in the 90’s.”
What will they do?
“Yes, they will fire on US citizens.”
You’re wrong, and your reply is exactly the opposite of the poll results.
About 64% of Marines said they would not fire on American civilians. Those most likely to obey orders were recruits and Marines who has been in the service for a short time. Those Marines who said they would shoot would quickly be set straight by platoon sergeants and other Marines.
Another poll from that period showed that 90% of officers identified themselves as conservatives or Republicans. The leftists in the newsrooms had a fit.
Right now, actually yesterday in Texas they came to a persons door, it was reported to be an eviction notice, just an eviction notice.
And yet three people were killed including the constable.
People are up against the wall, this isn’t some third world country. We will fight back, apparently some are already doing so.
Jack this up a few degrees and juxtapose a person with a lot more determination to put up a fight and let ones imagination come to mind.
“Wont take too much to convince the senior officers though...”
I disagree. A senior officer corps selected through politics, rather than accomplishment, by affirmative action instead of affirmative deeds will not be easy to convince, and is already used to sacrificing Americans if it benefited them.
Case in point - who dutifully accepted rules-of-engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan that resulted in the death of American soldiers without resigning their commissions (as any honorable leader should have done)? Senior officers - so deluded that they thought their own next promotion was more important than the lives of Americans.
US Senior officers in such a scenario will surround themselves with the analogs of Iraq’s “Republican Guard” or Iran’s “Revolutionary Guard” which will leave our junior officer and enlisted corps not thusly corrupted to deal with the already corrupted senior officer corps.
This. No one can maintain a 300 yard perimeter 24/7 unless they cower in a bunker. And stay there. Oh, and for the riflemen among us, that's 500 yards.
Well I have a FREE History lesson for Jim:
The biggest, most advanced, well armed military in the world once tried to disarm its citizens. It didn't work out so well.Here's something Jim and his ilk need to read: On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
Just ask King George III
The scenarios that you’ve written about in your books become more likely by the day.
Can you imagine how hard it is to maintain a 500 yrds perimeter 24/7/365? Do you know how EASY it is for any modern hunting rifle to hit a man-sized target at 500 yrds? ANY politician giving a confiscation order paints a massive bulls-eye on his own forehead.
On that day, I plan on being one of those who suddenly isn't at home when they come to round us up. This is not a warning. This is not a threat. This is just what will be.
I think that as far as using the military against the citizens, it’s a lose-lose for the government. If the military is staffed with patriots, they will not follow unlawful orders and will not turn on their fellow citizens. If it is staffed by non-patriots, they will be too cowardly to engage their fellow citizens.
Yes, there would be exceptions. But by and large, this won’t happen. I’m a little more worried about some of the LEOs. But in either case, the swaggering bully types are usually sissies who would turn tail at the first sign of trouble. Those who are truly brave and have integrity do not swagger around and bully others.
> “What will they do?”
Sorry. I missed that interpretation.
To answer the above question, though: Break down the door, trash the house, kill the dog, etc. If they find any guns or ammo, you will be jailed for having an illegal arsenal. Even if that is untrue, it will financially break you to prove it. It costs them nothing. They have lawyers on staff to handle these things.
One of the problems I have been thinking about is that even if I get what I think are all my guns and ammo out of the house, there will probably still be some hidden in some out-of-the-way place that I have forgotten about. I have run across stuff I forgot about several times in recent years. That would be to them like catnip to a cat.
I wish we were living in normal times, and I could just write standard genre pulp fiction. But with the ship of state heading for the falls, what would be the point?
Some will resist and while I personally do not expect to survive said resistance, perhaps there will be one or two fewer government thugs alive to continue the oppression. My fervent hope is there are more of us than there are of them. If not, I will have done what needs doing.
No kids... I wonder if it is a medical condition or some other impotence that leads to his derangement.
No kidding, and to think his first one was published in 2003.
I’m ready to read the trilogy all over again.
But I can say this, if America did indeed have troops in tanks running down the streets I for one would intensify all my attention to broker a deal with anyone in a friendly nation will to take sides with us, much like what the French did during the Revolutionary War.
With the modern communications methods anyone who encounters the beginnings of such a mass confiscation has the first responsibility to get the word out. You should have a communication web set up far in advance, so you’re not just one lone “kook” crying out in the wilderness whom none will listen to.
Then, others can go into “I sold my [good stuff] several years ago but here’s my [cheap rifle/handgun]” mode.
One thing the feds might do is try to shut down communications, but that will be an automatic “hide ‘em till it’s time to fight back on our terms” mode.
All the people who would order such a thing, all the officers, troops, politicians, et al., involved in disarming citizens have names, and addresses, and drive cars to the store, and take their kids to school.
Their names and addresses will be known, disseminated, and their routines severely interrupted when they start dropping like flies from rifle shots to the head while they try to drop their kids off at school, or get their mail from their mailbox, or go to the store for groceries.
In short order you will play hell finding more tools of the state to take on those tasks.
Sure, lots of people will go down when the swat teams surrounds their house. But that isn’t the end of it. That is just the start.
Thus the “retreat and engage on more favorable terms” strategy.
A box of ammo a month spent at the range should be sufficient to insure most of those who come to collect my guns ... will leave in a body bag.
Second, you only need to go to the range to sight your guns in.
Third, learning how to care for your guns and shoot accurately is like riding a bike or swimming.....you never forget. You will always instantly know how to do it and it will come naturally.
However, going to the range to get some target practice is fun!
I just keep looking back to the 30s and what happened to the WWI pensioners camping around DC - yes many in the military will resist, but many will comply.
And yes things are not as they once were.
In all honesty there won’t be any predictable pattern, my guess first off most states especially the ones that have opted out of Obamacre will instead form a State Militia, my state Alaska has one in place and all Alaskans eligible and willing to partake in defending the state can be armed.
This what could be the scenario, the Obama regime is trying to rule through fear, fortunately for some states and sadly for others some will strongly resist any Federal gun search program, look at what Arizona is going through for some insight, they are actually under siege from illegal immigrants, many that are armed.
So AZ is told by the Feds to give up its guns, the illegals swarm across the border, the military is too busy grabbing guns to put up a fight.
It just cannot arguably happen, its insanity. No I doubt it will happen in some places, but then again I expect it to happen in places like CA, my advice...get away from those places while you can.
Look through the “Guns and Knives” or “Sporting Goods” section in your local newspaper, find a private seller, and pay cash.
The problem is, nobody will ever hear about those armed patriots dying for our freedoms. If we ever hear about them at all, we’ll hear they were “domestic terrorists” who were plotting to overthrow the government or commit atrocities.
IF, and that is a big if, full confiscation starts, and IF there is a an armed resistance, it will be over quick.
We have a generation of soldiers trained in house to house combat. The Fedgov has drones, tanks, helicopters, and artillery.
The people have (mostly) bolt action and semi automatic firearms.
IF it comes to that, most will comply. The rest will die. And the troops will just follow orders because that is what they do.
Roger roger. You are correct.
In a word, yes.
Yes they will fire on US citizens. They have been trained to do that for decades. Ask an old timer, or even a current member.
Not all of them, but many will. Take troops stationed in Texas to New York. Troops from California to Maine. They will fire on citizens. It is part of the oath to defend against threats foreign and domestic.
Exactly, the MSM will go through a triple sideways reverse back flip saying it was a crazy demented person hate group individual or something else, we will never really know the truth unless it happens to someone we actually know, and then its our duty to spread the word of what really transpired.
They want to condition the people to view resistance fighters, freedom fighters, rebel scum, Oathkeepers or Tea party crackpots as the evil people standing in the way of a perfect society of supplitude for healthcare, free food and debit cards and a high speed connection in mommies basement for all.
The confiscations came to an abrupt halt when fellow officers behind the scenes made clear badness would follow if the grabbing continued.
There are roughly 100 million firearms owners in the US.
If 99% of them obey an order to “Turn ‘em in”, that leaves a million holdouts.
If 90% of those go out in a “blaze of glory” in the first week, that still leaves 100,000 survivors.
And those 100,000 will also be the most capable and motivated resisters. Northern Ireland was kept in turmoil for several decades by a few hundred guys. The DC/Maryland/Virginia area was kept in turmoil for several weeks by TWO guys.
If the first 10,000 of the resisters each takes one “occupier” with him when he dies, how enthusiastic do you think the “occupation” will be?
When the day comes, there will not be a firearm or bullet anywhere on my property.
Sometime after that, the action continues at a time of my choosing. Hell, I am 67, enjoy shooting and don’t have many more years left to do it in anyway. From my perspective, anyone following such an illegal order is my enemy.
100 percent agreement here. Nothing irritates me faster than reading ‘molon labe!’ Keyboard bluster, chest-beating feel-good crowing — from people with stones no greater than the chiclets on their laptops.
Nor will the govt ever need to roll tanks through neighborhoods, disarming the people. It’ll just take your tax money and buy up all the ammo, and all the suppliers; later, do the same with the guns; and one day when you’re at work it’ll send someone to talk to you while someone else goes to your house. No need to make a mess. Not one sheep in ten thousand resists anyway.
You don’t resist now, you never will. You haven’t even the nerve to quit funding the govt with your tax payments. Your pre-colddead hands hand that over readily, when there are safe and legal ways to avoid it. Galting is so inconvenient...but you’ll be channeling Crockett and Custer when they demand the guns, yeah, okay.
“You really think US Marines will fire on US Citizens defending their Constitutional Rights?”
Yes. They won’t say, “Attack that person defending their Constitutional Rights!” They’ll call that person a Domestic Terrorist first. They’ll say, “Attack that person disobeying the law and threatening our safety and security with his arsenal that he has amassed and threatened to use against us!” Or they might say, Help those civilian law enforcement personnel as they uphold the law and are the targets of Domestic Terrorists! Help them, show them your might!
They’ll never outlaw your scoped hunting rifle; they’ll call it a Sniper Rifle first.
They’ll never arrest patriotic Americans; they’ll call them Domestic Terrorists first.
They never call it a ban on guns; they’ll call it “Sensible gun control for the safety and security of children” first. Oh, wait, they already did that.
That might work a few dozen or hundred times. But then they will have declared war on freedom, and the politicians supporting those orders will have huge "RULE 308" signs branded on their faces. Nobody outside a handful (potus, cabinet) can live inside a moving 500 yard security perimeter.
And don't discount the number of freedom fighters working inside the machine to sabotage the Nazi orders. They will be sending messages of warning from inside HQ, and convoys of swatgoons will suddenly find themselves under attack, or their homes on fire.
This is not Iraq or Afghanistan, where the warfighters live on secure FOBs inside rings of razor wire.
It's going to sound more like, "Don't sell any more ammunition."
I don’t think they would use the marines. I think many of those arms the Pentagon is buying are going to the DHS. It is the DHS thugs you need to worry about, IMO.
And that math is very conservative, IMHO.
placemark and book bump...
Charlton Heston is also a primary kingpin in the passing of the Gun Control Act of 1968. It was dead until he pushed for it, expanded its powers, and gave us one the most intrusive gun control legislation ever, and he never tried to take it back or get it revoked.
Charlton Heston read the following words on the Joey Bishop show:
“TWO WEEKS AGO, ROBERT F. KENNEDY BECAME ONE OF THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS STRUCK DOWN BY AN ASSASSIN’S BULLET. SOMETIME TODAY, IN SOME CITY IN AMERICA, A GUN SHOT WILL RING OUT AND SOMEONE ELSE WILL FALL DEAD OR WOUNDED. THE VICTIM MAY BE A PUBLIC LEADER OR A PRIVATE CITIZEN, BUT, WHOEVER HE IS AND WHEREVER HE FALLS, HE IS NOT ONLY THE VICTIM OF THE GUNMAN....HE IS THE VICTIM OF INDIFFERENCE.
THE TRAGEDY IS STARK AND REAL. THE SCARS LAST FOREVER, AND THE ULTIMATE AND SENSELESS HORROR IS THAT SO MUCH OF THIS SLAUGHTER COULD BE PREVENTED. OUR GUN CONTROL LAWS ARE SO LAX THAT ANYONE CAN BUY A WEAPON....THE MENTALLY ILL, THE CRIMINAL, THE BOY TOO YOUNG TO BEAR THE RESPONSIBILITY OF OWNING A DEADLY WEAPON.
THE SOUND OF THAT GUNFIRE WILL ECHO AGAIN...TOMARROW, THE DAY AFTER, AND ALL THE DAYS TO FOLLOW, UNLESS WE ACT!!! 6,300 PEOPLE ARE MURDERED EVERY YEAR WITH FIRE- ARMS IN THESE UNITED STATES. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE AND WHEN IT IS COMPARED WITH THE FAR, FAR LOWER RATES IN OTHER FREE COUNTRIES, IT IS INTOLERABLE.
LIKE MOST AMERICANS, WE SHARE THE CONVICTION THAT STRONGER GUN CONTROL LEGISLATION IS MANDATORY IN THIS TRAGIC SITUATION. WE DO NOT SPEAK FROM IGNORENCE OF FIREARMS. THE FIVE OF US COUNT OURSELVES AMONG THE MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WHO RESPECT THE PRIVILEGE OF OWNING GUNS AS SPORTSMEN OR AS PRIVATE COLLECTORS. WE HAVE USED GUNS ALL OUR LIVES BUT THE PROPER USE OF GUNS IN PRIVATE HANDS IS NOT TO KILL PEOPLE.
THE CONGRESS HAS RECENTLY GIVEN US SOME PROTECTION AGAINST PISTOLS IN THE WRONG HANDS. BUT THAT’S NOT ENOUGH....NOT NEARLY ENOUGH, THE CARNAGE WILL NOT STOP UNTIL THERE IS EFFECTIVE CONTROL OVER THE SALE OF RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS.
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY WAS MURDERED BY A RIFLE.
MARTIN LUTHER KING WAS MURDERED BY A RIFLE.
MEDGAR EVERS WAS MURDERED BY A RIFLE.
NOT LONG AGO, A DEMENTED SNIPER PERCHED ON A TOWER AND KILLED FOURTEEN PEOPLE IN COLD BLOOD......BY RIFLE.
FOR MANY LONG MONTHS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HAS ASKED THE CONGRESS TO PASS SUCH A LAW... BUT THE CONGRESS WILL NOT LISTEN UNLESS YOU, THE VOTER, SPEAKS OUT....UNLESS THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY RISE UP AND DEMAND THAT THE CONGRESS GIVE US A STRONG AND EFFECTIVE GUN CONTROL LAW.
THE LEGISLATION HAS BEEN INTRODUCED. IN THE SENATE, IT IS S-3633. IN THE HOUSE IT IS HR-)7735.
THIS BILL IS NO MYSTERY. LET’S BE CLEAR ABOUT IT. IT’S PURPOSE IS SIMPLE AND DIRECT. IT IS NOT TO DEPRIVE THE SPORTSMAN OF HIS HUNTING GUN, THE MARKSMAN OF HIS TARGET RIFLE, NOR WOULD IT DENY TO ANY RESPONSIBLE CITIZEN HIS CONSTI- TUTIONAL RIGHT TO OWN A FIREARM. IT IS TO PREVENT THE MURDER OF AMERICANS. IT CONTAINS THREE SENSIBLE AND REALISTIC RULES.
FIRST, IT WILL OUTLAW THE MAIL ORDER SALES OF SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES. IF THIS LAW WERE IN FORCE SEVERAL YEARS AGO, IT MIGHT HAVE STOPPED LEE HARVEY OSWALD FROM
BUYING THE HIGH-POWERED RIFLE HE USED TO MURDER PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY. EACH YEAR ONE MILLION RIFLES ARE SOLD THROUGH THE MAILS.
SECOND, IT WILL OUTLAW SALES OF SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES TO MINORS - PEOPLE TOO YOUNG TO BEAR THE GRAVE RESPONSIBILITY PLACED IN THE HANDS OF A GUN OWNER.
THIRD, IT WILL OUTLAW SALES OF SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES TO STRANGERS. PEOPLE WHO DRIFT ACROSS STATE LINES, TOO OFTEN WITHOUT CREDENTIALS, BUY THESE WEAPONS, AS EASILY AS THEY BUY CIGARETTES AND CANDY. THE STATES WHICH HAVE STRONG GUN CONTROL LAWS WILL BE PROTECTED.
WE URGE YOU, AS A RESPONSIBLE, SENSIBLE AND CONCERNED CITIZEN, TO WRITE OR WIRE YOUR SENATOR AND CONGRESSMAN IMMEDIATELY AND DEMAND THEY SUPPORT THESE BILLS. IN THE SENATE, IT IS BILL S-3633. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, IT IS BILL HR-17735.
IN THE NAME OF HUMANITY....IN THE NAME OF CONSCIENCE....FOR THE COMMON SAFETY OF US ALL.... FOR THE FUTURE OF AMERICA, WE MUST ACT....IT IS UP TO YOU....YOU ALONE AND THE TIME IS NOW. “
And, within a couple of months of Obama disarming the American populace, Russia and China will invade.
They are not fools.
Yes, indeed. Nobody but the dealer can stack the deck. The govt will decide what sort of people comprise the paramilitary monstrosity that Obama promised to muster, that will be the domestic counterpart to our military forces. (Personally, I think a few thousand more IRS agents will be quite sufficient — given the rate at which Americans currently surrender their liberty.)
The math is intentionally very conservative.
Pointing out that even with the numbers skewed very highly in “their” favor, it still looks very bad for “them”.
“After the first 200-300 civilians are killed for resisting gun confiscation we will have a somewhat different group remaining.”
Yep, weak hands would be shaken immediately. All the talk about making friends and finding like minded people goes out the window at that point. Only then could we look around and find who stands with us.
Look, they know they cant just up and decide to take the private property of several million folks all at once.
They could get away with it in a few isolated instances, but not the entire country.
They only way they can do that as they did over in Great Britain incrementally.
They will first need lists of who has what they will need gun registration.
Second they will need to clamp down on the transfers of these guns to no only build the lists, but control where the guns flow.
As they did over in GB, they make all kinds of promises that this wont lead to CONFISCATION.
[All the while they are planning said confiscation]
That process will start with them calling for people to Voluntarily register their guns this will be phase one of the confiscation process many will be deemed Unfit to own weapons and POOF! Those folks will no longer own guns.
Next they will have the authorities search for unregistered guns ostensibly so they can be registered more will be deemed unfit and more guns will be taken.
As soon as they feel they have most guns on their lists, they will start calling them in.
Each one of these steps will be proceeded by a serious crisis.
I think you are wrong in regards to the senior ranks. Look at how they have treated their own. Look at the way they look to charge every field marine, soldier or sailor for any possible insult or possible rough handling of the Iraqis or Afghani. Shoot my son is in Afghanistan now and this year his former commander was convicted of fraud, bigamy, and conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. The treatment of the Haditha Marines was dreadful.