Posted on 08/13/2012 9:58:08 PM PDT by blam
When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
August 13, 2012
By Jim Karger
“When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands,” is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.
And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. “You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands,” which I often follow with the question, “And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood [in] the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?”
This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.
Nice fantasy. It’s not happening.
If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and when the increasingly-militarized rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition “for the common good,” it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.
The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.
And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who don’t seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.
Also ignored (as if it didn’t even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.
According to Public Intelligence:
“…for the last two years, the President’s Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of ‘homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities.’ Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being ‘necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities’ under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA.”
And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.
And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is the reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state-of-the-art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day — for nothing. You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.
That is your choice… for the moment.
Millions of us already have thousands of rounds of ammo EACH.
This is about a jillion times more than the IRA had in their entire inventory during The Troubles, and ammo shortages didn’t put them out of business, did they?
There are a lot of people who have more ammo than just “11 rounds left from a box of 20 that they bought three years ago”.
Why not fight? When the State comes after your arms, you are not just losing your constitutional right to keep and bear arms, you have, at that point lost every right you ever had.If the government we have comes to that, you will be labeled as a dissident anyway, and will be executed at some point, anyway.
Our military is the sons and daughters of Patriots. Not the sons and daughters of liberals, who loathe the military. I have nephews in the military, right now. Want real trouble? order them to go arrest or shoot at their kin. Sure, there are some there, even upper level commanders who would have no problem killing civilians if it meant a political boost. Believe me ,those are a tiny minority.
“poll results”
For active duty Marines that is a useless tool. No Marine would ever give a straight answer to thatntype of question. The answers they give will always be the one they think they are expected to give. Poll in general are useless tools. They are rarely accurate about any subject.
Just remember to take it with you when you go to work, or plan on going home (very late) and discovering it’s gone. And in its place, a whole mile of yellow tape.
“poll results”
For active duty Marines that is a useless tool. No Marine would ever give a straight answer to thatntype of question. The answers they give will always be the one they think they are expected to give. Poll in general are useless tools. They are rarely accurate about any subject.
As if the other side would suffer no losses and wonder what they’re doing it for.
The Waco assault stopped quick when 4 of theirs dropped early on. That a massive standoff ensued hinged on unlimited forces surrounding a tiny compound protecting the weak.
Bullies tend to stop quick in the face of viable opposition.
They are going to use DHS, not the military. Remember, O wanted a domestic force with as much military equipment as the military. The DoD is buying arms with their budget for the DHS, IMO.
Right — no serious patriot has less than 500 rds in stock.
ping for later
12 years old and still relevant. Maybe more so today that in 2000 when it was written...
Whatever you have will be removed with laparoscopic finesse. If the govt had a sense of humor, the yellow tape would not read “DO NOT CROSS” — it would say “DON’T TREAD ON ME.”
Or it might read “MOLON LABE.” But I think Child Protective Services have dibs on that one.
Some might disagree with me on this but they might first want to examine it from a two thousand year historical perspective.
I would claim that a push for gun control comes from the elite and those of great wealth and power. I don’t see it as liberal versus conservative, as much as ensuring security for those of privilege.
I say that only because throughout history those of great power and wealth frowned on little people possessing swords and arms. They purposely kept them disarmed so that they would never represent a threat to their power. They were called serfs for a reason, and it was to make sure they stayed serfs.
Those organizations who support gun control typically represent the higher echelons of elitist privilege and wealth.
As George Washington said: “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
Washington understood that diverse armed Americans at all strata of society will have a much needed political clout that is above the Parties and politicians. In other words it will keep the politicians and their powerful rich supporters from ever thinking they can plunder us at will.
Your analysis is correct, IMO, it will be slow. Transfers are already highly-regulated in the Dem states, and will become more so. Ammo regulations will start to come. Attempts to register guns will be introduced, and that is where the line must be drawn.
“What will they do?”
They will arrest and hold you until that rifle is found. Their orders are to fetch that rifle or fetch you. Period. They will do that. Logic be damned. This won’t be a civil court matter where you get to present logical arguments. This will be war.
Agreed.
BTW, I finally made the jump into the Kindle age and am re-reading the digital versions of the "Enemies" trilogy. I am amazed, and chilled, by how prescient those books were.
A lot of water has gone under the bridge since that was written.
“It is called “reprisals” among other things”
They don’t see it that way. No one is doing those things now, and they feel like they would be in absolute control to prevent such things. To be a liberal is to be very, very dumb, delusional, and live in a fantasy world where there are no consequences.
This is a part of a discussion I've had many times. The difference between them and us, is that they are ready, willing and able to use lethal force at the drop of a hat, and not think twice about it. We, on the other hand, are reluctant to employ the proper response. Until that changes, they'll keep pushing.
It is hard to know exactly what one would do when confronted by officers of the government.
When I was young and had a family depending on me, I probably would have secured a few where only I knew where they were then would have turned over what was in the house.
Now I am getting on in years and have no one depending on me, I just might oppose them. Even then it would not be an open confrontation but I would try to be as sneaky as possible and trade my life dearly.
I know some people who would simply fight it out with them. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that my late Father would have just shot it out with them. I have seen him before just open up on a criminal who had stolen his medication and was driving away.
I wonder and suspect that it was because he had been in combat. It probably changed him a bit. Then again it might have just been in his nature. His Father had shot and killed a guy in an open gunfight. Grandpa was convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to 20 years. Fortunately the governor gave him a full pardon after he had been in Raiford only a year.
Right now, the Federal Government is funding hardened security facilities all over the Country. They are preparing to deploy observation drones over America. These drones are capable of more than mere observation. New York City is instituting a camera observation system to survey civilians. They have a stop and frisk program which allows the police to search any citizen going about their legitimate daily business.
Additionally we hear of more and more high tech weaponry being invented out of all proportion to kind of threats Islamic terrorists pose - for use against WHOM?
They won't have to pry those guns from your cold dead fingers.
They will have the ability to deploy clouds of gases which make you so nauseous you will be incapable of functioning, or high pitch sounds that will cause such pain you won't be able to respond, or adhesive materials which will totally disable you. “Safe” handguns controlled by a computer chip? These too can be disabled from a distance with the proper equipment.
The increasing militarization of our law enforcement establishment is going on unabated. Police being trained in paramilitary courses at civilian run police academies all over the country. A mindset of “them” Varese's “us” does in fact create a class of “New Centurions”.
When you reflect upon the fact that NO ONE in the current administration is targeting Muslims as terrorists - NOR HAD ITS PREDECESSOR ADMINISTRATION, but has no problem identifying conservative political groups as objects of attention, is MORE than enough cause for alarm.
This is what George Bush's mindless War on Terror has come to in the hands of an extra-constitutional Marxist. And even if Obama IS defeated, will ANY of his successors have the Courage to DISMANTLE the Military/law enforcement complex we have allowed to grow in our midst? Will not ANOTHER Obama come along in the near future? Even if we DO win THIS TIME, it will be a close thing.
At the fall of the Roman Republic, history witnessed a change in the military thinking of the average Roman soldier. Instead of looking to the State for leadership, he increasingly turned to military strongmen. At the same time these military strongmen began recruiting non-citizens into the legions, people to whom the entire civilian structure of Roman government was an alien concept to which they owed no allegiance.
We are witnessing much the same thing today. The Obama Administration, with his Dream Act, is throwing open the ranks of the American military to more and more foreigners whose loyalty will be to him alone and not the American Constitution.
Never before has America and the progressive evolution of western culture and civilization been in such dire peril.
REAL Freedom, from an historical viewpoint, is such a FRAGILE and EPHEMERAL thing.
And, if 1984 becomes a reality here in America, we will have no one to blame but ourselves for our lethargy and apathy and failure to foresee those consequences of our indolence.
If the time comes to bury your guns it is already time to dig them up.
If the records show you do, they'll likely kill you where you stand, or drag you off to the gulag. Either one takes you out. It's a good idea to have something to give them, so you can plot retaliation later, and more effectively.
For the first few, or first few hundred, you’re 100% correct.
Eventually, though, they will start running into people who ... anticipated ... their arrival.
Hear, hear! Well said.
Look for it. With a warrant.
And when you clean up the huge mess and repair/replace the prolific breakage consequential to them examining every conceivable nook and cranny it could possibly be hidden in, including the digging up the entire yard, you'll be disinclined to pursue that bluff again. ...and that's assuming they didn't find it.
Well, you’ve got the tough key typing and bravado down. Hope you make it to the other side.
We live in an age of instant widespread communication.
The news WILL get out. Fast.
The conflict will be against the federal government. And how many federal employees will report to work after their neighbors tell them that being employed by the federal government, in any capacity, will be considered a hostile act by their neighbors?
It won’t just be against the Federal government. Don’t be naive. Looks at your states budget...where do you think they are going to get the money to pay the bloated state pensions and other unfunded liabilities?
Yet our experiences fighting those kinds of wars are getting us skills that could also be used at home. Hell, I’d LIKE to see’em used against the baby seal protesters (i.e., the protesters who should be clubbed like baby seals), and the illegal international narcoterrorists.
11 is more than enough.
Let's hope those people, whom you expect to react eventually, know other tricks besides reacting. Because letting your opponent pick the time to start trouble, is not generally seen as intelligent policy.
“They only way they can do that as they did over in Great Britain – incrementally.”
In many ways they already have. They have you right where they want you:
1. They have propagandized this issue to the point not many more would agree with them, so with half the country being for a gun ban, that’s the most they can expect, but half is enough.
2. They needed a gun registration scheme and have several; not of WHAT you own but that you DO own. That Form 4473 you signed and that NICS check they did is all they need to know about you: You have guns.
3. Control over the financial system: If you have a gun according to their records and do not turn it in to their satisfaction then they turn off your financial ability; no checking account, no retirement accounts, no payroll, no further mortgage, etc. They can effectively take everything.
4. By law, they can turn off ammunition sales overnight.
5. By law, they can outlaw all kinds of firearms and parts overnight.
6. The fed owns most lands used for hunting: Goodbye hunting permits and total enforcement.
7. Control over the utilities is how the Soviet Union kept towns and populations in check: Gee, your electricity went off. You folks have a bigger problem than that pesky gun control issue. Cooperate with the federal authority or else. They do this today to the States: “Make drunk driving 0.08 or else no federal funding.” “Make seatbelt laws or else no federal funding.” “Make ‘Sally has Two Mommies’ in elementary school or else no federal funding.”
Simply put: Anyone concerned about this had best get ready real soon to accept the fact that there may not be any more firearms, magazine, or ammo for sales.
And how many freepers were cheering when the legislation that enables this was passed under Bush? Lots. Too stupid to realize that what can be used against one group can be used against any group. The same freepers are still police cheerleaders today not realizing that the police are there to do the will of the government. If the will of the government is to disarm the citizens the police will be there doing it. Don't look for "Blue Flu" for anything except a pay cut or a benefits cut.
“or plan on going home (very late) and discovering it’s gone. And in its place, a whole mile of yellow tape.”
You act as though “they” can get to everyone in one day.
Only Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and the Great Pumpkin have demonstrated that ability.
Let's not forget the two DHS RFP's for ammo this year. The first for 450 million rounds, and the second for 750 million rounds. If fully executed, ammo is going to be expensive and difficult to find. Time to stock up on reloading supplies.
“You really think US Marines will fire on US Citizens defending their Constitutional Rights?
I’d say today it depends on the Marine.
The traditional soldier is being driven out. The efforts to put more women in command positions and the allowance of open homosexuality are there not just to placate certain groups. These policies are meant to discourage the entry into the military of conservatives.”
For a newbie, what took you so long to get here? Your comment is clearly a part of bo’s plan to subjugate and take down free America. Keep up the good posts and welcome.
“Right — no serious patriot has less than 500 rds in stock.”
That’s not even a half day at the range.
Sounds like a plan.
How far down the road should they get before the thermite in the shotgun barrels lights up?
In my part of the Union, the Federal kapos are not in a position of authority over even its’ own employees.
The order may be given but it’s unlikely to ever make the light of day. Although, on the same day, they’re will be a breaking news segment where said kapos commit suicide en masse.
What if they have trouble getting a warrant because the the “judge” that signed their rubber stamp warrents for your neighbors suddenly dissapears and other judges aren’t quite so eager to meet the same fate? What happens when the body of the officer that gave these orders to his command is found with ample evidence of citizens displeasure. neo-gestapo comes home only to find his family missing because they feared for their lives? That sure is a nice house you scrimped and saved to buy officer...sure would be a shame if something happened to it. The point is that they wouldn’t be magically immune from the consequences of their actions and it shows historical blindness to think that Americans would just roll over.
“Eventually, though, they will start running into people who ... anticipated ... their arrival.”
I like your way of thinking. I have a new tagline.
Hiring more IRS all the time, buying ammo in great quantities, getting a firmer grip on the power grid and the internet...so, why do you think the govt has to do it all in one day? Without your internet connection, how would you even hear about a roundup in 24 hours?
“Let’s hope those people, whom you expect to react eventually, know other tricks besides reacting.”
There are over 80,000 active duty special operator types in this country right ow and I’d expect there are over a million that are prior specops, from SEALs, CIA, NSA, DEA, Rangers, Army Special Forces, DOE, Marines, Air Force specops, etc. There are no shortages of dirty tricks operators sitting around.
“how would you even hear about a roundup in 24 hours?”
That’s my little secret, but I have far more than the Internet to rely on.
Anyone taking a gun can be counted on to check that the weapon is clear. I’d say the buttstock won’t be though.
I was answering the “what will they do?” question.
“What will you then do?” is...up to you. I trust you will see to it law and order is maintained, perhaps thru example of what happens when it isn’t.
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