Skip to comments.When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
Posted on 08/13/2012 9:58:08 PM PDT by blam
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That regulated militia would happen very quickly and i think youll be surprised by how well equipped it is.
I look at the history of Germany, England, Soviet Union, China. They will come for us individually and threaten us, our wealth, and family. The key word is INDIVIDUALLY.
It is only when we have nothing left to lose that most will fight. And even then, many won’t have a clear understanding of what to fight for. I have wondered what motivated some of our founders, some it would appear considered their lively hood and wealth lost, some were driven by their faith and understanding of God.
Again, I have stood up for what is right and I have stood alone................................. that is human nature, but there are exemptions. But is is important that we understand human nature and history. Most people are sheep. Study the 30’s in Germany. What would you and I have done? There are a lot of individuals and their choices revealed to us in history.
Human nature shows us we will not group up until we have to. We like our independence. Our founders learned AFTER THE BATTLE that a well regulated militia was necessary, but doing this counters human nature.
How does the old story go? When they finally came for me, there was no one left..........
Lets be realists, not pessimists or optimists. It will be a long, hard battle.
And we may collect a few heads along the way...
A lot of us former .mil types kept practicing once we were no longer Active duty. I was a 5th award Expert rifle and 2nd pistol. I've since built my own rifles that are much more accurate. Some of us are in 3-gun competition, some hunt, some collect dust. Every one of us remembers...
What, in your opinion, would constitute a rational estimation of the opposition?
Utter nonsense. There will not be enough "cops" to do all the confiscating, and those who resist will not simply be taken down one by one. They will have to kill large groups of resistors.
Regardless of the level of militarization of the police forces, the author is totally naive if he thinks such operations against the citizens will be either easy or successful. He's dreaming.
If they try it, they will see exactly how fierce the heart of a patriot is...
At the inception of the revolutionary war we were just a bunch of guys with guns. We became organized due to need. These days we are much better armed than our forefathers. We outnumber the aggressors in this little theory play by roughly 250 to 1. We know where they live, who their families are, where their children go to school, who they are "seeing" on the side, where they buy their food, where they go to counseling. We are their barbers and their butchers, their plumbers, their IT staff, their accountants, we are nameless and we are legion. They cannot possible "round us all up", they cannot possibly collect even a large percentage of arms in circulation and there is no effective method of stopping us from making more.
The only way we could possibly lose is to not fight and while that is a possibility it's not at this time a very likely one.
My estimation of the resistance (ie, the American citizens) is based on many factors. Among them, the response to Roe v. Wade; to Kelo; to Waco; to the TSA. Among other factors: the people continue to pay protection money to the govt so it won’t incarcerate and impoverish them for not paying; the people continue to enable the govt financially, when refusal to do so would bring the govt to its knees within weeks. These are not the same caliber of Americans who tracked blood in the wilderness during the Revolution.
I wish it were otherwise. Perhaps you, ctd2, are otherwise. I cannot know that, I can only hope so.
PS: Re Art of War...you let your opponent make the first move when you are ready for it. By far, most are NOT ready.
Not even getting ready. (Basic questions are not, how much ammo have I got and how much food? Basic questions are, when the S appears to HTF, how do I know it isn’t an isolated incident? do I go to work that day? and do the kids go to school that day?)
Moreover, Art of War had a few suggestions about timing offense rather than letting the opponent decide when to start surprising you.
You really need to quit posting to me, CT. You’re making less sense each time, now you’re projecting as well as name-calling. I don’t sit here all day and I especially avoid wasting time with irrational posters. Over and out.
If our people were like their peoples, our country would already be like their countries.
We are also not stupid. We know any authoritarian would like nothing better than to face down individual targets with overwhelming force.
If you call yourself a conservative, why is it you subscribe to the assumptions of the liberal when evaluating our people?
You have to be willing to die labeled as a 'terrorist' or you shouldn't even be playing the game.
I've had a vision of how I was going to die since I was about 9 years old. I'm (hold on while I do the math....) 47 now. I recently bought the rifle. Didn't realize it until later.
I charge .05/word, more when it’s both lengthy and obvious. :)
Do you think any of those things rises to the standard already set by the Declaration of Independence?
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.I do not. And I don't believe any rational observer would agree with you.
There are no advocates of the Second Amendment that do not understand it is the tripwire signaling the onset of intolerable abuses....
As stated earlier, Waco is a really good example of how a 'small' amount of resistance can bring a seemingly unstoppable force to a complete halt.
Remember the "insurgency" in Iraq? Multiply that by, oh, even just a million or so. Somebody hasn't been paying attention to the amount of firearms and ammunition purchased in the last 3 years.
Think people are just going to hand it over. I don't think so.....
If it were that obvious, it would not have to be lengthy.
In my opinion, the American colonists revolted against far less onerous offenses than our govt commits against us today.
If you consider Roe v Wade, obamacare, TSA, income taxes, etc. to be “light and transient causes” that do not “rise to the standard set by the Declaration, I am aghast, speechless.
To the contrary, because it should be obvious, I cannot possibly know when to STOP laying out a case to you.
This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.
Nice fantasy. Its not happening.
Tell it to Tom Wales, shot dead on the basement floor of his own home, just another dead fool resisting the People.
Time to bring out the mantra of freedom loving people:
If you have a knife, you can get a rifle; if you have a rifle, you can get a machine gun; If you have a machine gun, you can get an RPG; If you have an RPG, you can get a tank; etc.
It should also be noted there is a "new" influence in the debate. "Women," both literal and philosophical, have always prized security over liberty. There is no such thing as "acceptable loss" when those losses are the possession of women. As such, any action, plan, or doctrine that does not provide at least a theoretical immunity from loss from the status quo is going to meet significant opposition from that corner.
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 6:48:31 PM by 2ndDivisionVet
A friend of mine owns an instructive piece of history. It is a small, crude pistol, made out of sheet-metal stampings by the U.S. during World War II. While it fits in the palm of your hand and is a slowly-operated, single-shot arm, it's powerful .45 caliber projectile will kill a man with brutal efficiency. With a short, smooth-bore barrel it can reliably kill only at point blank ranges, so its use requires the will (brave or foolhardy) to get in close before firing. It is less a soldier's weapon than an assassin's tool. The U.S. manufactured them by the million during the war, not for our own forces but rather to be air-dropped behind German lines to resistance units in occupied Europe. Crude and slow (the fired case had to be knocked out of the breech by means of a little wooden dowel, a fresh round procured from the storage area in the grip and then manually reloaded and cocked) and so wildly inaccurate it couldn't hit the broad side of a French barn at 50 meters, to the Resistance man or woman who had no firearm it still looked pretty darn good. The theory and practice of it was this: First, you approach a German sentry with your little pistol hidden in your coat pocket and, with Academy-award sincerity, ask him for a light for your cigarette (or the time the train leaves for Paris, or if he wants to buy some non-army-issue food or a perhaps half-hour with your "sister"). When he smiles and casts a nervous glance down the street to see where his Sergeant is at, you blow his brains out with your first and only shot, then take his rifle and ammunition. Your next few minutes are occupied with "getting out of Dodge," for such critters generally go around in packs. After that (assuming you evade your late benefactor's friends) you keep the rifle and hand your little pistol to a fellow Resistance fighter so they can go get their own rifle.
Or maybe you then use your rifle to get a submachine gun from the Sergeant when he comes running. Perhaps you get very lucky and pickup a light machine gun, two boxes of ammunition and a haversack of hand grenades. With two of the grenades and the expenditure of a half-a-box of ammunition at a hasty roadblock the next night, you and your friends get a truck full of arms and ammunition.
So that is an excuse to not even START?
Enough double-talk. I think your inability or unwillingness to articulate your position is demonstrated well enough.
So use a sawed-off shotgun or .22 semiauto rifle instead, but keep your handgun as a backup. I expect cutdown .22s and shotguns will be the real killers once the urban cesspools downward spiral really pick up speed, and that'll include Direct Action killings.
Then your opinion is of little value. It is a far cry from abhoring what is "allowed" (such as abortion) to abhoring what is "demanded" (such as quartering troops).
How do I get a tank? I need a tank! ;-)
She's right. However, a lot of the stuff she mentions happens "to someone else" or is avoidable (ie; not flying because the TSA sucks).
For most folks, it won't really be driven home until THEY are threatening to come to your house and take your arms by force.
That's what they call a "game changer", a "deal breaker", a "last line in the sand".
On that day, all bets are off. Period.
However if it's "that time" it's not that hard to set an ambush, and the high level bureaucrats have to leave their offices and homes at some point.
You win that bet. I've been working on the accumulation of one million rounds, and I'm about halfway there, about half of which is .22 Long Rifle, 5000 of which fit very nicely in a .50 caliber metal ammo can.
Why? Remember the so-called *Million Mom March* They were exaggerating, considerably. I'm not.
Don’t be ridiculous. I don’t take requests. I have articulated my position fully and you’re asking for an indefinitely long exposition of the obvious, which may never satisfy you, at no charge on my time. I’m not biting.
No. I consider them "evils" that are "sufferable." And it would seem the greater balance of the people agree with me.
Knowing the idiot dictators, they'll be happy to televise it as a warning to the rest of the populace, although I believe it will have the opposite effect.
It doesn't matter how the incident is spun, if the government is coming for all weapons, the actual message of such confrontations will be vividly clear.
Hopefully we'll never have to see this come to pass, but I am well prepared for it.
“I would hope you are right but this happened very SLOWLY in our revolution. “
It never really did gain momentum until the Winter of 1976 with the crossing of the Delaware. Even then it never received full equipment and funding. There are two lessons in that.
1. You don’t need to be a fully equipped, well funded, army to defeat a superior enemy.
2. Don’t expect to be a fully equipped, well funded, army.
However, we the people maintain more guns, more ammo, more food, more medical, more of everything than the military has especially on a per solider basis.
“You really need to quit posting to me, CT. “
You post, we reply. That’s how this works. I know as a liberal you think your every word should be believed and worshipped as gospel and any dissent should just keep quiet, but this is FR where we debate, not censor.
Yep. How much organizing was done to bring "throngs" of people to 'Chick-fil-A's' in just a couple of days? Not much, and that was over 'Freedom of Speech', not life or death.
Properly motivated, people are capable of amazing feats. I truly hope they are smart enough NOT to test our will any further.....
Forget it. He's rolling.
I like “From my cold dead hands!” But I prefer “Two in the chest, one in the head” and “Have a plan to kill every man you meet.”
We surround them. Never forget that.
I fully understand the cost of freedom. I am willing to give my life to defend my God-given rights. I’m good with Jesus Christ. I do not fear death. So, they misunderstand me if they think I will bow down to any man.
Of course you won't, because you lack any credible criteria for "rational estimation of the opposition"; you simply lack the personal integrity to admit that fact. (Please note this change of tone follows your repeated refusal to answer a question predicated on your own standard of evaluation)
And apparently you also believe FReeRepublic only exists for you to disseminate your pronouncements from on high. If you do not believe you are under any obligation to engage in open debate without some remuneration, why else would you be here?
Finally, you are correct in that any "explanation" on your part would be lengthy for the simple fact is it is not "obvious." That you resort to such juvenile cliches' is both satisfying to me, and doctrinaire of you.
Americans have become sheep to be led to and off the cliff by the pied pipers of disinformation and PR.
The scenario will work like this.
First, the groups of organized opposition such as NRA GOA etc will be hijacked by the M. Bloombergs and big money interests behind gun control. A billion here or there could buy off their BODs. Without any such organization and there is no defense against the wealthy elites who want the sheep disarmed. All it takes is to change or cut of the head of leadership and the mission of such organizations can be molded like putty by $$$$$.
Second, would be a media that uses intentional false flag gun tragedies (purposely set up???) to move public opinion.
Third, before you can snap your fingers the American sheep that are owned by Hollywood and the entertainment media would be clamoring to rescind the 2nd Amendment.
I use the example of the AARP that once served as the most powerful lobbying and advocacy group in the USA, and it served senior citizens. No Congressman would mess with them. Around 2000 there was a leadership coup that took all of the voting power from the state AARP groups and gave the power to the new CEO Novelli. He turned it into a money making machine that primarily used and profited from seniors, instead of a group that only advocated for seniors.
The same thing could easily happen to gun advocacy groups.
Then shouldn't she be telling us how she knows we haven't already started?
Direct confrontation is not how asymetrical insurgency works nor how Americans would react.
Most certainly not. I've been thinking about this thread since last evening and I've come to the conclusion that the author is unacquainted with the nature of insurgency. Not much excuse, really, inasmuch as the body of work on the topic has expanded hugely since Vietnam.
In the first place, the logistics necessary for a full-flood door-to-door campaign in even a single city are staggering. We know because we've tried it. And if you don't flood the zone right away the targets simply flow elsewhere. I hear about a forcible confiscation in, say, Bigtown and the suburbs. My course of action is (1) sit tight, lock and load, and wait for the SWAT team to come knocking; (2) throw on a set of camos and hit the sticks for some snooping and pooping until the power bars run out; (3) distribute my contraband to where I can get at it and they can't, and look innocent. Option (3) sounds mighty attractive, low-risk, and leaves me in a position to seize the initiative at will. And the gun sweepers can't camp out in my front yard forever.
That's how insurgency works. Because I'm talking to my neighbor in the meantime, who's talking to his. His cousin knows where there's some ammo stashed. My brother-in-law has a friend with a boat. My ex-service buddy has a cabin in the weeds. No Internet or phone lines necessary, nothing for a drone to see. This isn't fantasy macho chest-pounding, it's how an insurgency really works because we've observed it ourselves.
I am inclined toward pessimism concerning the generation to come - their soft upbringing, their indolence, their general unwillingness to put forth an effort to free themselves. That is a very common outlook in history (especially American history). It is also always mistaken.
Nor would the issue be firearms exclusively. A government aggressive enough to devote the sort of resources necessary even to begin such a campaign will be after far more than firearms. And you don't need a firearm to be an insurgent, all you need is a pair of eyes and ears and the ability to pass information. This is not new knowledge, and I am a little surprised at the tendency of persons such as our author to ignore a body of experience that we have gathered at such expense.
“...the tripwire signaling the onset of intolerable abuses....”
Basically, it signals that they are willing to KILL as many American Citizens as they need to to accomplish their goals.
That thought alone should be intolerable to anyone who calls themselves American.
That thought alone should have blood boiling all over the country, and set peoples’ hearts to stone against anyone advocating it.
hehe Maybe there were some slow learners? Them thar edumacated types.
You might even call them Killers Without Conscience.
You know full well this piece was written not as an honest assessment, but as a psy-op tactic to corrode resistance and excuse passivity.
Yeah, I do. ;-)
If you are eating dinner with the jack-booted thugs, you might want to skip the peach cobbler.
Or was it the scrambled eggs?
Firearms are just one tool for preserving freedom.
“How much organizing was done to bring “throngs” of people to ‘Chick-fil-A’s’ in just a couple of days? Not much, and that was over ‘Freedom of Speech’, not life or death.”
That is an excellent example of indirect communications. The people got the word out via email, Internet, phone, fax, person to person, etc. Without the Internet there is no doubt a slowing of communications, but driving across the country only takes 2 days at most and flying it less than one.
The left assumes we are disorganized and would be unable to communicate in order to cooperate if they could just cut off our means of communications. They are wrong. We already are like minded in the idea of liberty and freedom and know what moral grounds we stand on. It is they that have to continually communicate to propagandize, recruit, and train their followers. We may not know what to do about everything right this second but we’ll have that figured out once the time comes.
Well stated; thank you for posting.
Bluto's right. Psychotic... but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!
Probably. Assuming they aren't just doing their own version of a disinformation campaign.
Some people I've met online do some of this without even being aware of what they are doing, so keep in mind that not everyone is part of some over-arching conspiracy. Some people are just 'tards... ;-)