Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Candidate Paul Ryan: Is he a bad Catholic?
LA Times ^ | 08/14/2012 | Michael McGough

Posted on 08/14/2012 2:21:29 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd

Forget about whether he should be elected vice president. Should Rep. Paul D. Ryan be excommunicated?

I have been perusing blogs and comments thereon that suggest the prospective Republican veep candidate is not only a bad man but also a bad Catholic. It’s the latest installment of a tiresome debate between liberal and conservative Catholics about which faction’s favored politicians are truer to the teachings of Mother Church.

As columnist Michael Sean Winters points out, Ryan’s claim that his political philosophy is conversant with Roman Catholic social teaching is hard to swallow.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; badcatholic; catholic; catholicvote; dnctalkingpoints; doublestandard; getryan; godgap; homosexuality; paulryan; politics; religion; religiousleft
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-67 next last
Catholic liberals are of two minds about whether dissenters from church teaching should be censured. Where some subjects are concerned, they favor a more congregational and dissent-friendly concept of church authority. But when conservative Catholics take issue with episcopal pronouncements on poverty or economics, their liberal brethren can’t resist the temptation to accuse the conservatives of being disloyal -- or at least “cafeteria” -- Catholics. To which the conservatives reply, essentially: “I know you are, but what am I?”


1 posted on 08/14/2012 2:21:40 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Whether he is good or bad is between he and the church.


2 posted on 08/14/2012 2:24:04 PM PDT by RC2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDMeDmV0ufU)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

joe biteme has already excommunicated himself by his support for abortion which the Catholic Church teaches is a mortal sin.


3 posted on 08/14/2012 2:25:09 PM PDT by Lou Budvis (Just like in 2008, I'm voting for Vice-President.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

I guarantee that Paul Ryan is a far better Catholic than either Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden. Let’s start with them first...


4 posted on 08/14/2012 2:25:36 PM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd
Hmm bad Catholic?

Considering the same people who make this accusation about Ryan support pro Abortion on demand politicians like Biden and Obama, it pretty clear who the BAD Catholics are here.

Guess the Liberal Catholics missed the part about caring for the poor being a personal, not Government imposed, responsibility.

5 posted on 08/14/2012 2:26:14 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

So now the liberals want a religious test???


6 posted on 08/14/2012 2:26:45 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Whenever I hear someone claim to be or to have been “perusing”, the pomposity just blanks out everything.

Sorry.


7 posted on 08/14/2012 2:28:40 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Obama Kills))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd
And tomorrow's LAT: "Is Obama a bad Christian?"

NOT!!! How blatant in their hypocritical lefty bias could the LA Slimes be?

8 posted on 08/14/2012 2:28:58 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Liberal Catholics are apostates who have embraced the social gospel of liberation theology or Christian socialism. This gospel has very little to do with salvation, redemption and what God can do through your life but what you can do to make the world a better place through feel good activities. The final fruits of liberation theology is the powerless, useless faith that St. Paul prophesies about in II Timothy 3. They are no competent judge on anything.


9 posted on 08/14/2012 2:30:13 PM PDT by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Amb-ASS-ador Kennedy, JFK, Dead Ted, Nancy Bimbosi.

You want Catholics in h*ll (or going there), you might look their way.

Nice try, LAT.

Shove it up your collective smelly Obamas.


10 posted on 08/14/2012 2:30:34 PM PDT by Da Coyote
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd
THIS is their attack?

If this is all they've got, Obama's going to lose.

11 posted on 08/14/2012 2:31:22 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jeffc

And tomorrow’s LAT: “Is Obama a bad Christian?”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually....

Is Barack Obama a GOOD MUSLIM?


12 posted on 08/14/2012 2:31:51 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

I missed the previous articles in this series by the TIMES.

Is Pelosi a bad catholic?

Is kennedy a bad catholic?

Is -———— (fill in the blank) a bad catholic?


13 posted on 08/14/2012 2:32:30 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DarthVader

Neo-Pelagianism.


14 posted on 08/14/2012 2:32:37 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Do these people really expect us to believe God has an opinion on whether the top Marginal Rate for Income Tax in the United States should be 36% or 39%?

They are arguing against their straw man version of Ryan that wants to throw Granny off a cliff. Nobody wants to do that. Well, Ryan certainly doesnt. The Obamacare Death Panel may be another matter...


15 posted on 08/14/2012 2:33:55 PM PDT by Haiku Guy ("The problem with Internet Quotes is that you never know if they are real" -- Abraham Lincoln)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS

Exactly!


16 posted on 08/14/2012 2:35:17 PM PDT by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

A rather dull-headed column, equating opposition to abortion and homosexual marriage to support for certain kinds of social spending.

I’m not a Roman Catholic, but I know that even the most socialist-minded Bishop does not equate opposition to homicide of babies or sodomy as morally equal to certain strategies for helping the poor.

Do Ryan or other conservative Roman Catholics (or any other conservatives in the USA) support ignoring and starving the poor, a la a Caste-system in India? NO.

Opposition to government-led socialist solutions (really aggravations...) to poverty does not make one a hater of the poor.

The “Great Society” has not exactly been a smashing success, and if Democrat social spending drives the US gov. broke—now THAT really will hurt the poor, and all of us.


17 posted on 08/14/2012 2:36:16 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (reality is analog, not digital...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Further evidence that liberals are both stupid and evil:

“[Michael Sean] Winters nicely deconstructs, in both senses of the word, Ryan’s assertion that his opposition to federal social spending reflects the Catholic doctrine of ‘subsidiarity’ — the notion that issues should be resolved ‘at the level of social organization closest to the individual.’ Problem is, Winters writes, Ryan is not advocating innovative anti-poverty programs at the local level.”

If you understand subsidiarity, you understand that IT ISN’T THE JOB OR THE PLACE of a Representative to the FEDERAL Congress to figure out “innovative anti-poverty programs at the local level.”

That’s kinda the whole point of the teaching.


18 posted on 08/14/2012 2:39:21 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DarthVader

Catholics are a billion of the world’s population and unfortunately, included in that number are many, including clergy, who think that social programs are synonymous with Christian charity. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Real Christian charity means giving of yourself and/or your time and money, in order to help the less fortunate. It does not mean that money confiscated from you by a government is a suitable substitute for giving. That is the problem with liberal Catholics, and they are being challenged every day by those who really do give of themselves. The same is true with non-Catholics or anyone else. Funny, Christians of all stripes give more to charity than any other group that I know of.


19 posted on 08/14/2012 2:47:07 PM PDT by NotTallTex
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: RC2; Responsibility2nd
"Whether he is good or bad is between he and the church."

That has always bugged me. Is is NOT between Ryan and the church, it is between Ryan and the Almighty."

I used to work with a woman who claimed to be "a good catholic". I asked "don't you mean a good Christian?"

This occurred while she was talking about going to see a psychic to "speak" with her dead relatives.

I asked her if she read the Bible. She replied she did, on a daily basis.

I then went home, looked up the passages about turning to those whom "speak to the dead", fortune tellers, the dead are aware of nothing, etc". I then gave them to her for her to read.

Didn't stop her from going.

Christianity has many different sects. It is the individual that decides for him or herself to be a good one....as "good" as man can be, which is FAR from perfect.

20 posted on 08/14/2012 2:49:19 PM PDT by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Now it comes - in view of his popularity and his status as the next Vice President of the United States-Republican, the liberal press will stoop to any depths to smear him.


21 posted on 08/14/2012 2:54:12 PM PDT by Jack Hammer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

from the article: “Winters nicely deconstructs, in both senses of the word, Ryan’s assertion that his opposition to federal social spending reflects the Catholic doctrine of “subsidiarity” — the notion that issues should be resolved “at the level of social organization closest to the individual.” Problem is, Winters writes, Ryan is not advocating innovative anti-poverty programs at the local level.”

This does not make sense: Ryan is not running for local office. If he were running for local office, that it might make sense to ask him about his positions on local issues.

Further, the article assumes that federal social welfare spending is actually good for the poor. All the evidence is to the contrary. First of all, are the poor really poor? In America, the “poor” are on average more obese than the non-poor. They also tend to have mobile phones, air conditioning, cable television, free time, clothing, medical care, shelter, public education, etc... - all things that the poor, as understood in the rest of the world and in, at least as I read it, the Bible, would not be expected to have. So I am not really sure how applicable Catholic social teaching is to this situation. One also has to look at the differences in competence on the part of the bishops when it comes to different kids of issues. For example, when it comes to which economic policy will best help the American poor, assuming they really are poor, the bishops have zero claim to greater competence than anyone else (and many of them are quite daft on the subject). However, when it comes to faith and morals, such as whether it is ok to kill unborn children or same-sex sexual activity, then yes if you are Catholic you should get on board with the bishops. All of this is to say that Paul Ryan has a far greater claim to Catholicism than do the likes of liberal so-called Catholics like Pelosi, Biden, John Kerry, the Kennedys, et al.


22 posted on 08/14/2012 2:55:06 PM PDT by Stingray51
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: morphing libertarian

No, they’re good Democrats. Well, at least most of the Kennedy politicians are. Now.


23 posted on 08/14/2012 2:57:39 PM PDT by RichInOC (Palin 2012: The Perfect Storm.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: jeffc

Are the folks at LAT Christians?

Then how can they make that judgment?


24 posted on 08/14/2012 3:00:10 PM PDT by 353FMG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Timber Rattler
I doubt the LA Times knows anything about Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno.
25 posted on 08/14/2012 3:00:42 PM PDT by HapaxLegamenon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

AS IF Jerry Brown or Nancy Pelosi support Catholic Church teachings on abortion and homosexuality.

Nancy had the balls earlier this year to declare the Pope “wrong” on abortion.


26 posted on 08/14/2012 3:00:46 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Eric Holder's NAACP rally against the voter ID laws required the press to bring govt issue photo ID.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

McGouugh and Winters are clueless on the teachings of the Catholic Church, as presented by the Vatican, The Bible, and The Catechism.

Ryan, on the other hand, is quite in concert with all three.


27 posted on 08/14/2012 3:01:54 PM PDT by G Larry (Progressives are Regressive because their objectives devolve to the lowest common denominator.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd; bootyist-monk
“I’m Your Worst Nightmare.

“I am a BAD Catholic.”

28 posted on 08/14/2012 3:03:38 PM PDT by RichInOC (Palin 2012: The Perfect Storm.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoGrayZone

The Church is the Body of Christ, the pillar and foundation of truth, your are positing a difference without distinction.

As far as your exegesis, Christ is the God of the living, we are alive in Christ.

You are welcome to your own interpretation and beliefs, and as your own authority on which are the correct ones, you get to decide.


29 posted on 08/14/2012 3:07:08 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: NoGrayZone

“That has always bugged me. Is is NOT between Ryan and the church, it is between Ryan and the Almighty”

NGZ -

Think of it like this. “Being a Catholic in good standing with the Church”.

There are explicit things that one has to do in order to be a Catholic in good standing that are not required of other Christians. One of which is to attend mass every week. Then there are things like confession, etc.

You do not have any of these requirements, but we do.

“It is the individual that decides for him or herself to be a good one.”

Not in the Catholic church. Everyone who chooses to become Catholic also agrees to obey the Church and her teachings in full, not in part.


30 posted on 08/14/2012 3:10:09 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: ilovesarah2012

Nancy Pelosi was one of the Rats who began the attempts to “close the god gap” (her terms) in the wake of the 2004 election.

In 2006, they used the “Culture of corruption” meme to out two homosexuals in the GOP and turn off some religious conservatives.

Nothing in their platform is “kosher” with the Catholic Church, whether it is the push for same sex marriage or the push for requiring religious institutions to fund marriage and birth control (that’s what Sandra Fluke was after, she TARGETED a Catholic university).


31 posted on 08/14/2012 3:10:09 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Eric Holder's NAACP rally against the voter ID laws required the press to bring govt issue photo ID.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: jeffc

The goal of the Left isn’t necessarily to win over religious conservatives, sometimes they can shave off enough points by just convincing them to stay home or to leave the box blank.


32 posted on 08/14/2012 3:11:52 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Eric Holder's NAACP rally against the voter ID laws required the press to bring govt issue photo ID.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd
I got a kick out of this part:

If you accept the proposition that the hierarchy is the determinative source of Catholic teaching… the conservatives have the better of the argument.

Of course, if you get to make it up or pick MTV as the determinative source of Catholic teaching...

33 posted on 08/14/2012 3:12:01 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HapaxLegamenon
I doubt the LA Times knows anything about Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno.

I didn't, and thank you for the references. I've been trying to understand Roman Catholic Church's position on this issue. I suspect that there's no clear cut one side positions like "the Church is 100% for free-market capitalism" (her concerns for the poor and the weak make her less likely to side 100% with free market position, I think) and certainly not "100% for socialism" (concerns on dignity of individual prevents her to do so), so reading these official documents have been great.

34 posted on 08/14/2012 3:28:55 PM PDT by paudio (Two stubborn facts remain: (1) Romney is better than 0bama, and (2) Romney is the Republican Nominee)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Let us not forget one of my senators. She is Mary Landrieu, a Catholic. She maintains that she is opposed to abortion, but supports a woman’s right to choose. Yeah! That is similar thereunto to saying that you are opposed to drinking alcohol, but then walking into a AA meeting and offering to buy everyone present a round at the corner bar.

Somehow I think that the Pope would not agree with her. I wonder why her priest does?


35 posted on 08/14/2012 3:31:18 PM PDT by Saltmeat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stingray51
For example, when it comes to which economic policy will best help the American poor, assuming they really are poor, the bishops have zero claim to greater competence than anyone else (and many of them are quite daft on the subject).

Daft is right.

A number of bishops, in typical liberal fashion, appear to live in a fantasy world in which dollars miraculously multiply like the loaves and the fishes, and in which no destructive consequences will result from open borders and taxpayer funded welfare to the world (coerced via brutal taxation from people who are not necessarily any better off than the ones who are sneaking in to avail themselves of the sweat of others' brows).

They don't understand that what they're advocating will eventually end up sinking the whole ship (resulting in far greater and more widespread misery than before.)

36 posted on 08/14/2012 3:32:27 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

The entire discussion is flawed. The Catholic mandate tp be charitable does NOT automatically mean that charitable giving should be filtered through te government.


37 posted on 08/14/2012 3:35:29 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JCBreckenridge; D-fendr

This is exactly what I mean. Does the catholic church say it’s okay for catholic’s to seek fortune tellers, or those whom “speak to the dead”?

Ecclesiastes 9: 4-6

Psalms 146: 3-4

Deuteronomy 18:9-13

Galatians 5: 19-21


38 posted on 08/14/2012 3:35:34 PM PDT by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: NoGrayZone
This is exactly what I mean. Does the catholic church say it’s okay for catholic’s to seek fortune tellers, or those whom “speak to the dead”?

No. It's forbidden.

God's Word makes it very clear.

39 posted on 08/14/2012 3:44:14 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Pelosi is the bad catholic.


40 posted on 08/14/2012 3:53:04 PM PDT by Truth is a Weapon (Truth, it hurts so good.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoGrayZone

Nope no fortune tellers in the Church, just the Body of Christ, the Communion of Saints and Christ as our head.

Your interpretation of Holy Scripture and the Communion of Saints is your own and you are of course welcome to it on your own authority.


41 posted on 08/14/2012 4:01:49 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: lacrew

Precisely.

Good post.

The article blows it here: “Problem is, Winters writes, Ryan is not advocating innovative anti-poverty programs at the local level.”

To them, local level means government yet again.


42 posted on 08/14/2012 4:04:36 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: NoGrayZone

Here’s a link, to save space:

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/saints.html


43 posted on 08/14/2012 4:07:13 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Haiku Guy
Do these people really expect us to believe God has an opinion on whether the top Marginal Rate for Income Tax in the United States should be 36% or 39%?

Well, God only asks for 10% Himself. I am sure He expects a government to get by on no more then that.

44 posted on 08/14/2012 4:13:22 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Fate plays chess and you don't find out until too late that he's been using two queens all along)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: NoGrayZone

You wrote:

“Does the catholic church say it’s okay for catholic’s to seek fortune tellers, or those whom “speak to the dead”?”

No, it is forbidden by Sacred Scripture and the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.


45 posted on 08/14/2012 4:16:05 PM PDT by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Ryan is a good Catholic on the “social issues”, such as abortion. Ryan believes that murdering the unborn is evil, should not be funded by the government, and that it should be restricted and regulated. Ryan also believes in the Church position of the “economic issues”, where he supports private charity - a much more Christian position than compulsory “charity”, where the government collects our donations under the threat of force. That combination makes Ryan a good Catholic, a good Christian, and a good conservative. What could be better?


46 posted on 08/14/2012 4:20:16 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]



47 posted on 08/14/2012 4:23:42 PM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93destr)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: D-fendr

Thanks, but I don’t do links. I just opened my Bible to find what I needed, helps me to learn it more.

The only time I use a Bible link is to see if all of the Bibles out there state basically the same thing.


48 posted on 08/14/2012 4:46:06 PM PDT by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: jeffc

>> And tomorrow’s LAT: “Is Obama a bad Christian?”

His Muslim faith, no?


49 posted on 08/14/2012 4:49:21 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Pollster1
That combination makes Ryan a good Catholic, a good Christian, and a good conservative. What could be better?
 

 

How about a good Mormon who had the same core beliefs as Ryan?

50 posted on 08/14/2012 4:52:06 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-67 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson