Skip to comments.Candidate Paul Ryan: Is he a bad Catholic?
Posted on 08/14/2012 2:21:29 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd
Forget about whether he should be elected vice president. Should Rep. Paul D. Ryan be excommunicated?
I have been perusing blogs and comments thereon that suggest the prospective Republican veep candidate is not only a bad man but also a bad Catholic. Its the latest installment of a tiresome debate between liberal and conservative Catholics about which factions favored politicians are truer to the teachings of Mother Church.
As columnist Michael Sean Winters points out, Ryans claim that his political philosophy is conversant with Roman Catholic social teaching is hard to swallow.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Whether he is good or bad is between he and the church.
joe biteme has already excommunicated himself by his support for abortion which the Catholic Church teaches is a mortal sin.
I guarantee that Paul Ryan is a far better Catholic than either Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden. Let’s start with them first...
Considering the same people who make this accusation about Ryan support pro Abortion on demand politicians like Biden and Obama, it pretty clear who the BAD Catholics are here.
Guess the Liberal Catholics missed the part about caring for the poor being a personal, not Government imposed, responsibility.
So now the liberals want a religious test???
Whenever I hear someone claim to be or to have been “perusing”, the pomposity just blanks out everything.
NOT!!! How blatant in their hypocritical lefty bias could the LA Slimes be?
Liberal Catholics are apostates who have embraced the social gospel of liberation theology or Christian socialism. This gospel has very little to do with salvation, redemption and what God can do through your life but what you can do to make the world a better place through feel good activities. The final fruits of liberation theology is the powerless, useless faith that St. Paul prophesies about in II Timothy 3. They are no competent judge on anything.
Amb-ASS-ador Kennedy, JFK, Dead Ted, Nancy Bimbosi.
You want Catholics in h*ll (or going there), you might look their way.
Nice try, LAT.
Shove it up your collective smelly Obamas.
If this is all they've got, Obama's going to lose.
And tomorrow’s LAT: “Is Obama a bad Christian?”
Is Barack Obama a GOOD MUSLIM?
I missed the previous articles in this series by the TIMES.
Is Pelosi a bad catholic?
Is kennedy a bad catholic?
Is -———— (fill in the blank) a bad catholic?
Do these people really expect us to believe God has an opinion on whether the top Marginal Rate for Income Tax in the United States should be 36% or 39%?
They are arguing against their straw man version of Ryan that wants to throw Granny off a cliff. Nobody wants to do that. Well, Ryan certainly doesnt. The Obamacare Death Panel may be another matter...
A rather dull-headed column, equating opposition to abortion and homosexual marriage to support for certain kinds of social spending.
I’m not a Roman Catholic, but I know that even the most socialist-minded Bishop does not equate opposition to homicide of babies or sodomy as morally equal to certain strategies for helping the poor.
Do Ryan or other conservative Roman Catholics (or any other conservatives in the USA) support ignoring and starving the poor, a la a Caste-system in India? NO.
Opposition to government-led socialist solutions (really aggravations...) to poverty does not make one a hater of the poor.
The “Great Society” has not exactly been a smashing success, and if Democrat social spending drives the US gov. broke—now THAT really will hurt the poor, and all of us.
Further evidence that liberals are both stupid and evil:
“[Michael Sean] Winters nicely deconstructs, in both senses of the word, Ryans assertion that his opposition to federal social spending reflects the Catholic doctrine of ‘subsidiarity’ — the notion that issues should be resolved ‘at the level of social organization closest to the individual.’ Problem is, Winters writes, Ryan is not advocating innovative anti-poverty programs at the local level.”
If you understand subsidiarity, you understand that IT ISN’T THE JOB OR THE PLACE of a Representative to the FEDERAL Congress to figure out “innovative anti-poverty programs at the local level.”
That’s kinda the whole point of the teaching.
Catholics are a billion of the world’s population and unfortunately, included in that number are many, including clergy, who think that social programs are synonymous with Christian charity. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Real Christian charity means giving of yourself and/or your time and money, in order to help the less fortunate. It does not mean that money confiscated from you by a government is a suitable substitute for giving. That is the problem with liberal Catholics, and they are being challenged every day by those who really do give of themselves. The same is true with non-Catholics or anyone else. Funny, Christians of all stripes give more to charity than any other group that I know of.
That has always bugged me. Is is NOT between Ryan and the church, it is between Ryan and the Almighty."
I used to work with a woman who claimed to be "a good catholic". I asked "don't you mean a good Christian?"
This occurred while she was talking about going to see a psychic to "speak" with her dead relatives.
I asked her if she read the Bible. She replied she did, on a daily basis.
I then went home, looked up the passages about turning to those whom "speak to the dead", fortune tellers, the dead are aware of nothing, etc". I then gave them to her for her to read.
Didn't stop her from going.
Christianity has many different sects. It is the individual that decides for him or herself to be a good one....as "good" as man can be, which is FAR from perfect.
Now it comes - in view of his popularity and his status as the next Vice President of the United States-Republican, the liberal press will stoop to any depths to smear him.
from the article: “Winters nicely deconstructs, in both senses of the word, Ryans assertion that his opposition to federal social spending reflects the Catholic doctrine of subsidiarity — the notion that issues should be resolved at the level of social organization closest to the individual. Problem is, Winters writes, Ryan is not advocating innovative anti-poverty programs at the local level.”
This does not make sense: Ryan is not running for local office. If he were running for local office, that it might make sense to ask him about his positions on local issues.
Further, the article assumes that federal social welfare spending is actually good for the poor. All the evidence is to the contrary. First of all, are the poor really poor? In America, the “poor” are on average more obese than the non-poor. They also tend to have mobile phones, air conditioning, cable television, free time, clothing, medical care, shelter, public education, etc... - all things that the poor, as understood in the rest of the world and in, at least as I read it, the Bible, would not be expected to have. So I am not really sure how applicable Catholic social teaching is to this situation. One also has to look at the differences in competence on the part of the bishops when it comes to different kids of issues. For example, when it comes to which economic policy will best help the American poor, assuming they really are poor, the bishops have zero claim to greater competence than anyone else (and many of them are quite daft on the subject). However, when it comes to faith and morals, such as whether it is ok to kill unborn children or same-sex sexual activity, then yes if you are Catholic you should get on board with the bishops. All of this is to say that Paul Ryan has a far greater claim to Catholicism than do the likes of liberal so-called Catholics like Pelosi, Biden, John Kerry, the Kennedys, et al.
No, they’re good Democrats. Well, at least most of the Kennedy politicians are. Now.
Are the folks at LAT Christians?
Then how can they make that judgment?
AS IF Jerry Brown or Nancy Pelosi support Catholic Church teachings on abortion and homosexuality.
Nancy had the balls earlier this year to declare the Pope “wrong” on abortion.
McGouugh and Winters are clueless on the teachings of the Catholic Church, as presented by the Vatican, The Bible, and The Catechism.
Ryan, on the other hand, is quite in concert with all three.
“I am a BAD Catholic.”
The Church is the Body of Christ, the pillar and foundation of truth, your are positing a difference without distinction.
As far as your exegesis, Christ is the God of the living, we are alive in Christ.
You are welcome to your own interpretation and beliefs, and as your own authority on which are the correct ones, you get to decide.
“That has always bugged me. Is is NOT between Ryan and the church, it is between Ryan and the Almighty”
Think of it like this. “Being a Catholic in good standing with the Church”.
There are explicit things that one has to do in order to be a Catholic in good standing that are not required of other Christians. One of which is to attend mass every week. Then there are things like confession, etc.
You do not have any of these requirements, but we do.
“It is the individual that decides for him or herself to be a good one.”
Not in the Catholic church. Everyone who chooses to become Catholic also agrees to obey the Church and her teachings in full, not in part.
Nancy Pelosi was one of the Rats who began the attempts to “close the god gap” (her terms) in the wake of the 2004 election.
In 2006, they used the “Culture of corruption” meme to out two homosexuals in the GOP and turn off some religious conservatives.
Nothing in their platform is “kosher” with the Catholic Church, whether it is the push for same sex marriage or the push for requiring religious institutions to fund marriage and birth control (that’s what Sandra Fluke was after, she TARGETED a Catholic university).
The goal of the Left isn’t necessarily to win over religious conservatives, sometimes they can shave off enough points by just convincing them to stay home or to leave the box blank.
If you accept the proposition that the hierarchy is the determinative source of Catholic teaching the conservatives have the better of the argument.
Of course, if you get to make it up or pick MTV as the determinative source of Catholic teaching...
I didn't, and thank you for the references. I've been trying to understand Roman Catholic Church's position on this issue. I suspect that there's no clear cut one side positions like "the Church is 100% for free-market capitalism" (her concerns for the poor and the weak make her less likely to side 100% with free market position, I think) and certainly not "100% for socialism" (concerns on dignity of individual prevents her to do so), so reading these official documents have been great.
Let us not forget one of my senators. She is Mary Landrieu, a Catholic. She maintains that she is opposed to abortion, but supports a woman’s right to choose. Yeah! That is similar thereunto to saying that you are opposed to drinking alcohol, but then walking into a AA meeting and offering to buy everyone present a round at the corner bar.
Somehow I think that the Pope would not agree with her. I wonder why her priest does?
Daft is right.
A number of bishops, in typical liberal fashion, appear to live in a fantasy world in which dollars miraculously multiply like the loaves and the fishes, and in which no destructive consequences will result from open borders and taxpayer funded welfare to the world (coerced via brutal taxation from people who are not necessarily any better off than the ones who are sneaking in to avail themselves of the sweat of others' brows).
They don't understand that what they're advocating will eventually end up sinking the whole ship (resulting in far greater and more widespread misery than before.)
The entire discussion is flawed. The Catholic mandate tp be charitable does NOT automatically mean that charitable giving should be filtered through te government.
This is exactly what I mean. Does the catholic church say it’s okay for catholic’s to seek fortune tellers, or those whom “speak to the dead”?
Ecclesiastes 9: 4-6
Psalms 146: 3-4
Galatians 5: 19-21
No. It's forbidden.
God's Word makes it very clear.
Pelosi is the bad catholic.
Nope no fortune tellers in the Church, just the Body of Christ, the Communion of Saints and Christ as our head.
Your interpretation of Holy Scripture and the Communion of Saints is your own and you are of course welcome to it on your own authority.
The article blows it here: “Problem is, Winters writes, Ryan is not advocating innovative anti-poverty programs at the local level.”
To them, local level means government yet again.
Here’s a link, to save space:
Well, God only asks for 10% Himself. I am sure He expects a government to get by on no more then that.
“Does the catholic church say its okay for catholics to seek fortune tellers, or those whom speak to the dead?”
No, it is forbidden by Sacred Scripture and the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
Ryan is a good Catholic on the “social issues”, such as abortion. Ryan believes that murdering the unborn is evil, should not be funded by the government, and that it should be restricted and regulated. Ryan also believes in the Church position of the “economic issues”, where he supports private charity - a much more Christian position than compulsory “charity”, where the government collects our donations under the threat of force. That combination makes Ryan a good Catholic, a good Christian, and a good conservative. What could be better?
Thanks, but I don’t do links. I just opened my Bible to find what I needed, helps me to learn it more.
The only time I use a Bible link is to see if all of the Bibles out there state basically the same thing.
>> And tomorrow’s LAT: “Is Obama a bad Christian?”
His Muslim faith, no?
How about a good Mormon who had the same core beliefs as Ryan?