Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

There is no California
Townhall.com ^ | August 16, 2012 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 08/16/2012 3:46:36 AM PDT by Kaslin

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-79 next last

1 posted on 08/16/2012 3:46:40 AM PDT by Kaslin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

California needs to be fixed. They are the 8th largest World Economy. America cannot afford to let California die. We obviously can’t afford to let them go down the road they are on. Something drastic has to be done....what is that? I wish I knew. But the bottom line is, We cannot allow them to fail!!!!


2 posted on 08/16/2012 3:50:39 AM PDT by napscoordinator (Attention Republican National Convention voters....Santorum/Bachmann 2012! Dump liberal Romney NOW!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

That man has talent for putting things into perspective...


3 posted on 08/16/2012 3:53:30 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator

The fiscally sane states will end up bailing the rat-run bankrupt states.


4 posted on 08/16/2012 3:54:49 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

When the power grid fails or rotating power outages of significant length become the norm and when the available power is ten times more expensive than today, how long will the veneer of California civilization remain?


5 posted on 08/16/2012 3:59:21 AM PDT by Truth29
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

The fiscally sane states will end up bailing the rat-run bankrupt states.

Yep. But the reason will be because there is no other option. If we let them fail then the country will fail.


6 posted on 08/16/2012 4:01:30 AM PDT by napscoordinator (Attention Republican National Convention voters....Santorum/Bachmann 2012! Dump liberal Romney NOW!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator

>> California needs to be fixed. They are the 8th largest World Economy. America cannot afford to let California die.

That’s the right kind of attitude!


7 posted on 08/16/2012 4:02:59 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator
IIRC, and if wrong I would like to know; didn't the CA supreme court shoot down a law some 25 years ago that denied public school education to illegals?
8 posted on 08/16/2012 4:13:26 AM PDT by Jacquerie (Obamacare - Constitutional Despotism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator

‘’’ But the bottom line is, We cannot allow them to fail!!!!

Why not? Too big to fail? :)


9 posted on 08/16/2012 4:15:32 AM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: bill1952
“The result is that we are left with mostly liberal students angry at mostly liberal policies of a mostly liberally governed state.”

Sums it up well for CA and Greece.

http://townhall.com/columnists/victordavishanson/2012/03/15/whos_to_blame_for_california

10 posted on 08/16/2012 4:17:49 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator; TurboZamboni
The fiscally sane states will end up bailing the rat-run bankrupt states.

Yep. But the reason will be because there is no other option. If we let them fail then the country will fail.

Methinks one of the earlier Federalist papers (#6 or #8) has something to say about this. Will return to it tonight.

Cheers!

11 posted on 08/16/2012 4:20:21 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator
And why not/

Unfortunately it seems that the only way for a politician to learn anything is for him to personally fail - big time.

California's problems didn't just spring from the earth overnight. It has been building for the last 20 - 30 years that I know about. If I can see it from Florida after being stationed in California for four years it must be very obvious.

Yes, California's crash will be very painful for me at many levels. But, I see no tectonic shifts in California's direction at any time without it.

Have you ever considered that as California goes so go the rest of us?

12 posted on 08/16/2012 4:20:29 AM PDT by Nip (TANSTAAFL and BOHICA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
On the coast, it's politically incorrect to talk of illegal immigration. In the interior

While this not the sole reason for CA's demise it is the overwhelming reason. It is also what is facing the US at large. Unless this can be addressed and rectified CA will continue to languish and deconstruct. As mentioned CA going down is no small matter it will effect us all.

13 posted on 08/16/2012 4:22:03 AM PDT by Altura Ct.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator

-——We cannot allow them to fail!!!!-——

Though I certainly do not want to see them fail, we are the “United States of America “ 50 sovereign states ....if they are failing “they” need to fix themselves ....

By bailing them out we only enable them to continue to fail....

When the libtards in CA do not have electricity or can no longer buy food, maybe their brains might actually engage ....

Never heard that Rhode Island is too small to fail....


14 posted on 08/16/2012 4:22:28 AM PDT by Popman (In a place you only dream of Where your soul is always free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator
The worst thing you can do for an entity is deny it the right to learn from its own stupidity.
15 posted on 08/16/2012 4:26:59 AM PDT by Aevery_Freeman (All Y'all White Peoples is racist!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni
“The result is that we are left with mostly liberal students angry at mostly liberal policies of a mostly liberally governed state.”

And they blame it on conservatives.

16 posted on 08/16/2012 4:27:06 AM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator

We MUST allow them to fail.

That is the only way to fix California.


17 posted on 08/16/2012 4:37:14 AM PDT by agere_contra (Vote ABO. Don't choose the Greater Evil and then boast about how principled you are)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Tragic read. Especially coming from Victor, who has witnessed and accurately described the decline and dichotomy of his home state.

This is what they’ll do to the rest of the country if we let them.


18 posted on 08/16/2012 4:37:44 AM PDT by SueRae (See it? Hell, I can TASTE November from my house!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator
We cannot allow them to fail!!!!

Why not? Seems to me that allowing california to wallow in the pig sty that it is making of itself would be the absolute best thing for the country.

A lot of liberals need to learn about the real world. And living in the third world hell hole they are making of themselves would do it I think.

The only redeeming qualities I've seen from California in a long time are the presence there of Freerepublic (which could be moved to a more sane state), The navy base in San Diego and a couple of air bases. The navy base can't be moved, but everything else could be (and should be moved to lower cost sane states)

19 posted on 08/16/2012 4:38:56 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator
America cannot afford to let California die.

There is little America can do for California. The saying goes this way: the first generation earns the money, the second generation manages to keep it, and the third generation spends it all. California is in the fourth generation now. The money's been spent, but the lifestyle goes on. This is happening where I live, Illinois.

All the wealth built up in a low/no-tax and low/no-regulation environment has been eaten up. The principle is gone, but America didn't do that. You and I didn't vote these policies. The Welfare State is the utopian dream of the rich and ignorant (not necessarily the same).

What can America do to reign in the policies implemented at the state and local level in California? What policy should we put in place? You're right that California is critical to America, but you have now generations of people trained not to work. They've never had to strive for anything, so they don't know how. Everything has been given to them. To run against that is to lose election after election.

Here's my proposed solution. Add ten states to the union. Take the top ten urban counties and make them their own states with the remainder of the existing counties remaining as their own state. In this way you could unburden the suburbs and countryside and allow them to thrive outside the undo influence of city liberals. What do you think?

Three generations from shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves. - Andrew Carnegie

20 posted on 08/16/2012 4:40:17 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

-——a small cottage costs more than $1 million-——

There is a caveat however....... My conservative friends own just such a house. Both are now retired and have stirrings of thoughts of moving away from the paradise Silicon Valley to somewhere there is not the continuous liberal whining and stupid laws and taxes.

Who will buy the house?

I drove the length of California in May...... twice.

My take is that the liberals are right. There are just to many people. To survive, people must be purged. However that policy is at cross purposes with the immigration policy. For every one that leaves, at least one slips in. One wonders if a scratched back ( back bloodied crawling under the fence) will buy the $1 million house.


21 posted on 08/16/2012 4:40:17 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Victor just doesn’t recognize a utopia when he sees it. /s


22 posted on 08/16/2012 4:41:11 AM PDT by mykroar (October race riots bring November martial law. Voting postponed for your safety.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Timely piece, from where I stand.


23 posted on 08/16/2012 4:42:32 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of America starts the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator; Kaslin; rlmorel; TurboZamboni; Truth29; Gene Eric; Jacquerie; bill1952; ...
America cannot afford to let California die.

Actually, we MUST let "California" die.

Not California the land. "California" the modern liberal morass.

The "Eighth largest economy" has less to do with the geography than it does the foundations of economic freedom which sprouted there partly because of the geography. Intel does not need mountains.

We obviously can’t afford to let them go down the road they are on. Something drastic has to be done....what is that?

Both true. We cannot afford "their" stupidity and recklessness. But "we" cannot cure it. Something must indeed be done, BY THEM.

But the bottom line is, We cannot allow them to fail!!!!

Unfortunately, this is completely incorrect.

"They" MUST FAIL FIRST ON THEIR OWN.

No different than a headstrong, errant child. Only one possible way to truly learn a life lesson: live it.

Anything "we" force them to do or accept will merely encourage them that they are superior and would have been successful in their utopian dream if we hadn't come in and ruined it with "austerity" or some such boogey-term.

Let them die so that they may be reborn.

24 posted on 08/16/2012 4:58:17 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

“The fiscally sane states will end up bailing the rat-run bankrupt states.”

____

How true, However once they are bailed out they will keep right doing the very things that got them there in the first place. Their whole mind set has to be changed and I don’t see that happening without a lot of heartbreak and spilled blood.


25 posted on 08/16/2012 4:58:21 AM PDT by mongo141 (Revolution ver. 2.0, just a matter of when, not a matter of if!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: sam_paine

-——Let them die so that they may be reborn.-——

Amen

The big’un is coming. It will provide the inertia. The old order will be wiped out by the quake


26 posted on 08/16/2012 5:04:23 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator
I disagree. Failure is exactly what CA needs. Total, complete, bankruptcy is the drastic measure you are looking for that may end the madness for good.

What you are suggesting is “too big to fail”. Hogwash. This is the very attitude that allows the Left to recoup, rebuild their power & authority. Failure, OTOH, exposes the total incompetence of the Left to govern. They need to learn that lesson. The rest of America needs to see what insane liberalism does to people & states.

It is obvious to me that Jerry Brown & Co. are forging ahead with fiscal insanity in the sure knowledge that Obama or Romney or Santa Claus will eventually come to their rescue with billions of free money - my money. Mommy's very presence emboldens the child. Well, if I have a say, CA will get NOTHING for a bailout. Nada! The state can rot in the hell they made.

27 posted on 08/16/2012 5:05:36 AM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: sam_paine
You may have misinterpreted my post (#2).
28 posted on 08/16/2012 5:10:16 AM PDT by Aevery_Freeman (All Y'all White Peoples is racist!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

The Big One needs to hit the coast of CA hard, giving the government cover to send a newly-printed trillion to that bankrupt state in “emergency aid.” The Meany States couldn’t say anything about that very caring bail-out and the self-inflicted problems of CA would be solved...for a little while.

Barring that scenario, there isn’t a solution.


29 posted on 08/16/2012 5:19:54 AM PDT by txrefugee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Mexico del Norte
30 posted on 08/16/2012 5:28:40 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Altura Ct.

31 posted on 08/16/2012 5:28:49 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

As someone that lives in California I beg the rest of the country do NOT bail us out. The only way out of this mess is to fail, and fail big time.

What I would like to see is the state divided up. One half the California central valley down to the border and then across to San Diego.

The other half the coastal cities from LA up the coast to Oregon.

Abandoned Sacramento as a capitol let the coastal state use San Francisco at it’s capitol


32 posted on 08/16/2012 5:30:21 AM PDT by CIB-173RDABN (California does not have a money problem, it has a spending problem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mister Da

At this point, I think some states NEED to fail. That’s the point of the federal system, or it should be. Wise policies bring prosperity to wisely-run states. Foolish policies bring utter failure to foolishly led states.


33 posted on 08/16/2012 5:30:34 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD
Here's my proposed solution. Add ten states to the union. Take the top ten urban counties and make them their own states with the remainder of the existing counties remaining as their own state. In this way you could unburden the suburbs and countryside and allow them to thrive outside the undo influence of city liberals. What do you think?

I think the idea stinks. The 10 new senators representing the new "city-states" would be automatically bluer than blue, big government gun-grabbing demoncrats. The states from which these "city-states" were carved would very likely thereby be more conservative, but not sufficiently so to guarantee that all senators elected from those states would be conservative. Your fanciful suggestion would likely swing the balance of the Senate substantially to the left.

Now, if the ten largest cities could be carved out of their states and composed into a single state, this proposal might have some merit. A sufficient number of the senators elected from the new sans-city states would probably be reliably conservative enought to more than counterbalance the two new automatically deep blue senators from the State of Megalopolis. Illinois, for example, might actually elect conservative senators if the entirety of the Chicago metropolitan area were carved away from the remainder of the state.

34 posted on 08/16/2012 5:53:05 AM PDT by Spartan79 (I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health, and the liberties of man.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee; CIB-173RDABN

If the feds don’t bail out California, expect to see the mayor of Los Angeles inviting the People’s Liberation Army in to keep order in the streets.


35 posted on 08/16/2012 5:55:09 AM PDT by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

“Flex alert” is code for: Shortages.


36 posted on 08/16/2012 6:01:18 AM PDT by 4Liberty (Some on our "Roads & Bridges" head to the beach. Others head to their offices, farms, libraries....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bert
I imagine Jerry Brown is PRAYING for a major earthquake.

A bad quake would be just the excuse Obama needs to bailout CA. Ten minutes of CNN video of the damage will have McCain, McConnell, & Boehner weeping uncontrollably, promising TRILLIONS in aid. Billions in FEMA money would be a great stimulus to the CA economy. The construction trade unions would be flush with fresh cash. Thousands more bureaucrats will be hired to "manage" the recovery. The resulting recovery & reconstruction would postpone CA bankruptcy for years, if not completely.

All paid for by the other 49 states - you & me.

I live in an area frequented by hurricanes. I can tell you from decades of storms that the rebuild after the storm is a BIG, BIG boost to the local economy that lasts months or years. People have a wad of insurance/FEMA/welfare cash, & are in a mood to spend some money to relieve their stress, further boosting the economy. The more severe the storm damage, the bigger/longer the economic boost.

So, if you are secretly hoping for a CA quake that wipes out the Liberals - don't. You're actually hoping for the only thing that will SAVE the CA Liberals - Free Money.

37 posted on 08/16/2012 6:02:48 AM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

I disagree with this statement:

“A postmodern narrow coastal corridor runs from San Diego to Berkeley, where the weather is ideal, the gentrified affluent make good money, and values are green and left-wing.”

The large majority of people living in that narrow corridor are poor but indoctrinated. They are demanding government give them money, and in a short time that coast will look like the Central Valley. The only difference is that it started with more money, so it is taking longer to use it all up. That, and it has long had the votes to take money from the rest of the state and spend it on themselves...


38 posted on 08/16/2012 6:03:21 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberalism: "Ex faslo quodlibet" - from falseness, anything follows)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Mississippi to Massachusetts?

More like Mexico City to Massachusetts


39 posted on 08/16/2012 6:04:51 AM PDT by artichokegrower
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator
America cannot afford to let California die.

Perhaps California needs to die. Or at least the California Welfare State. Once the welfare system collapses under its own weight, perhaps only then would change be possible.

40 posted on 08/16/2012 6:11:39 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (A deep-fried storm is coming, Mr Obama.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

I agree.

This is just another example of Liberals preference for equality of outcomes over equality of opportunity.

Much can be learned from failure, as I can attest to in my own life. The best lessons are usually the hard ones. Watching a fool can often help us avoid being a fool.


41 posted on 08/16/2012 6:12:57 AM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Mexico will eventually take the American southwest without firing a shot...


42 posted on 08/16/2012 6:13:55 AM PDT by Sicon ("All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." - G. Orwell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator

We (in California) used to have a part-time Legislature, ‘corrected’ if I am not mistaken, by Governor MoonBeam (first round). If legislators came for a vote and LEFT Sacramento to work real jobs, a whole lot could be changed. And the state would be flush.


43 posted on 08/16/2012 6:16:31 AM PDT by bboop (Without justice, what else is the State but a great band of robbers? St. Augustine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator
California needs to be fixed. They are the 8th largest World Economy. America cannot afford to let California die. We obviously can’t afford to let them go down the road they are on. Something drastic has to be done....what is that? I wish I knew. But the bottom line is, We cannot allow them to fail!!!!

Gorbachev once said this about Russia. What emerged, however flawed, was better.

Let CA crash and burn.

44 posted on 08/16/2012 6:17:49 AM PDT by Lazamataz (I love the Universe, and it loves me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Mister Da

California deserves to eat its lunch. The LIBs are fools. There is nothing like a beaten-down fool. They must learn from their mistakes. Can you believe these Cali fools reelected Governor Moonbeam??????


45 posted on 08/16/2012 6:18:08 AM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Mister Da
I imagine Jerry Brown is PRAYING for a major earthquake.

You CANNOT petition the Lord Satan with prayer!

46 posted on 08/16/2012 6:18:40 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator

California needs to be fixed. They are the 8th largest World Economy. America cannot afford to let California die. We obviously can’t afford to let them go down the road they are on. Something drastic has to be done....what is that? I wish I knew. But the bottom line is, We cannot allow them to fail!!!!


Are you kidding? That’s the beauty of federalism...allow the states to experiment. Some will fail in their efforts and others will prosper in theirs. If CA continues on the same path, there will be an even further exodus of the “producing class” and the state will go bankrupt.

The 40 year decline of Detroit should serve as an stark example to the voters of CA.


47 posted on 08/16/2012 6:23:13 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (Resurrect the House Committee on Un-American Activities (HUAC)...before there is no America!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator
We cannot allow them to fail!!!!

Yeah, we can ... gleefully.

ex-socal dweller

48 posted on 08/16/2012 6:24:56 AM PDT by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

My wife and I took a trip through parts of California two years ago. We drove out of the Sierras after visiting Yosemite through Fresno, Bakersfield, and other desert towns. (Actually, we were on the interstate, so we didn’t really see a lot of those towns.) I still remember driving into Barstow on old Rte. 66 coming back from Victorville. Southwest Barstow looked like it had been hit by a tornado. Junky houses and trash everywhere. I wonder what it looked like when the song first came out back in the forties.


49 posted on 08/16/2012 6:37:14 AM PDT by driftless2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: napscoordinator

We cannot allow them to fail!!!!

We cannot allow California to extort the rest of the states, most of whom try to live within their means and balance their budgets.

Are you saying that there should be no expectation of responsibility from California. Why should California even worry about spending and their deficit if they are rewarded with “we cannot allow them to fail” speech? We sure as heck can allow them to fail. That’s the only thing that will save the state. California legislature needs a massive failure on their hands before anything will improve.


50 posted on 08/16/2012 6:44:40 AM PDT by Joan Kerrey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-79 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson