Skip to comments.Who Does The Government Intend To Shoot?
Posted on 08/18/2012 8:48:02 PM PDT by null and void
Photo by Oleg Volk, http://www.olegvolk.net/
The Social Security Administration (SSA) confirms that it is purchasing 174 thousand rounds of hollow point bullets to be delivered to 41 locations in major cities across the U.S. No one has yet said what the purpose of these purchases is, though we are led to believe that they will be used only in an emergency to counteract and control civil unrest. Those against whom the hollow point bullets are to be used those causing the civil unrest must be American citizens; since the SSA has never been used overseas to help foreign countries maintain control of their citizens.
What would be the target of these 174, 000 rounds of hollow point bullets? It cant simply be to control demonstrators or rioters. Hollow point bullets are so lethal that the Geneva Convention does not allow their use on the battle field in time of war. Hollow point bullets dont just stop or hurt people, they penetrate the body, spread out, fragment and cause maximum damage to the bodys organs. Death often follows.
Potentially each hollow nose bullet represents a dead American. If so, why would the U.S. government want the SSA to kill 174,000 of our citizens, even during a time of civil unrest? Or is the purpose to kill 174,000 of the nations military and replace them with Department of Homeland Security (DHS) special security forces, forces loyal to the Administration, not to the Constitution?
All my life Ive handled firearms. When a young boy growing up on my fathers farm in Pennsylvania Dads first rule of firearms training was, Never point a gun at someone, in fun or otherwise, unless you intend to shoot them. If you shoot someone, shoot to kill. Ive never forgotten his admonition. It stayed with me through my Boy Scout training, when I enlisted in the army as a Private to fight in the Korea War, during my days as a Ranger and Paratrooper and throughout my thirty-four year military career.
If this were only a one time order of ammunition, it could easily be dismissed. But there is a pattern here. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has ordered 46,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition. Notice that all of these purchases are for the lethal hollow nose bullets. These bullets are not being purchased and stored for squirrel or coyote hunting. This is serious ammunition manufactured to be used for serious purposes.
In the war in Iraq, our military forces expended approximately 70 million rounds per year. In March DHS ordered 750 million rounds of hollow point ammunition. It then turned around and ordered an additional 750 million rounds of miscellaneous bullets including some that are capable of penetrating walls. This is enough ammunition to empty five rounds into the body of every living American citizen. Is this something we and the Congress should be concerned about? Whats the plan that requires so many dead Americans, even during times of civil unrest? Has Congress and the Administration vetted the plan in public.
I fear that Congress wont take these ammunition purchases seriously until they are all led from Capitol Hill in handcuffs. Why buy all this ammunition unless you plan to use it. Unknown to Congress, Does DHS plan to declare war on some country? Shouldnt Congress hold hearings on why the Administration is stockpiling this ammunition all across the nation? How will it be used; what are the Administrations plans?
Obama is a deadly serious, persistent man. Once he focuses on an object, he pursues it to the end. What is his focus here? All of these rounds of ammunition can only be used to kill American citizens, though there is enough ammunition being ordered to kill, in addition to every American citizen, also every Iranian, Syrian or Mexican. There is simply too much of it. And this much ammunition cant be just for training, there arent that many weapons and shooters in the U.S. to fire it. Perhaps it is to be used to arm illegal immigrants?
We have enough military forces to maintain law and order in the U.S. even during times of civil unrest.
We have local police, backed up by each states National Guard, backed up by the Department of Defense. So in addition to all these forces why does DHS need its own private army? Why do the SSA, NOAA and other government agencies need to create their own civilian security forces armed with hollow nose bullets?
Were I the JCS, and if I wasnt already fully briefed on this matter, Id stop the purchase of hollow point bullets, ask the secretary of Defense why all this ammunition is being purchased and spread around the country? If I got answers like the ones Congress got during the investigation of Operation Fast and Furious Id start tracking all ammunition deliveries nationwide to find out what organizations and units are using them, for what purpose and, if it is not constitutional, prepare to counteract whatever it is that they are doing.
This is a deadly serious business. I hope Im wrong, but something smells rotten. And If the Congress isnt going to do its duty and investigate this matter fully, the military will have to protect the Constitution, the nation, and our citizens.
Jerry Curry is a decorated combat veteran, Army Aviator, Paratrooper, and Ranger, who for nearly forty years has served his country both in the military and as a Presidential political appointee.
Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping!
To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you need to threaten to report me to the Admin if I dont add you to the list...
A desperate tyrant’s cynical answer to the 2nd amendment?
Is it perhaps time that hillbillies and rednecks get their own wicked ammo?
Is someone planning “Seven Days in May” for real???
I question the need for any government bureaucracy that is not the NSA, FBI, or CIA needing guns to do their job. This is not an anti-gun comment, but there should be minimal separation between the government and people.
If a bureaucrat thinks he’s in a danger that is more than he can handle, he should be working with the sheriff’s department.
We have watched them attack and kill the ‘who’ since the late 1980s, the people in flyover country.
Maybe the administration really does fear a popular armed uprising upon its rotten pot of alphabet soup. Why else a stash of that size? Social Security for heavens sake. Arm Grannies!
From a friend of mine who is retired federal Law Enforcement:
The Honorable (Insert Senator’s/Congressperson’s name here)
I am writing to ask that your office officially look into the massive quantity of small arms ammunition various agencies in the federal government are buying with a 60 day delivery date. These agencies range from Department of Homeland Security to National Weather Service to Social Security Administration. (Why would the Social Security Administration require ANY ammunition, especially 174,000 .357 SIG and 174,000 .40 cal S&W)? .357 SIG is not a standard round for any agency. It is a bottle-necked cartridge (.40 cal casing necked down to a .357 bulletcapable of penetrating most body armor). Add to this very interesting order the various agencies NOW buying the below:
Over one million rounds of hollow-point .223 rifle ammo
Over half a million rounds of non-hollow-point .223 rifle ammo
220,000 rounds of 12 gauge shotgun #7 ammo (target ammo)
Over 200,000 rounds of 12 gauge shotgun #00 buckshot ammo (tactical anti-personnel ammo)
66,000 rounds of 12 gauge shotgun slugs (tactical anti-personnel, anti-vehicle rounds)
Over two million rounds of hollow-point .357 Sig JPH (hollow-point) pistol ammo (anti-personnel)
Over four million rounds of .40 S&W JPH (hollow-point) pistol ammo (anti-personnel)
Over 60,000 rounds of .308 match grade anti-personnel sniper rounds (BTHP)
Plus, hundreds of thousands of additional rounds of .38 special, .45 auto, 9mm, 7.62x39 (AK rifle) ammo, and others.
This is on top of the massive 450 million .40 S&W hollow point rounds the DHS has already requisitioned. (All above can be verifed on government websites regarding contract solicitations).
We need answers to what this is all about, and why now?
What do they know or expect, and when did they decide to act?
Who exactly requires this amount of ammo for civilian agencies (and dont let them tell you its for training...not hollow points).
Keep in mind that the above stockage would provide every single member of the US armed forces with over 400 rounds per person.
Who is REALLY going to use all this? And against who?
Please keep me advised. I am sending a copy of this to selected individuals in other states so that they can make similar inquiries with their respective senators and representatives.
Time is of the essence. I fear this has something to do with anticipated election results or some other event we have not been made aware of.
(Insert your name and address)
What Good Can a Handgun Do Against An Army?
I doubt “they” lack the guns for this, and common sense has to tell you these are not just useless bare bullets with no cartridge.
This looks like a preparation for a siege by zombies!
I think folks are getting a little carried away with this. (not that I trust our government!) Every government organization also has an OIG (office of investigations thing) even NOAA and NASA. The people who work in these divisions are law enforcement people and they investigate crimes such as fraud and corruption. They are also armed, and they have frequent training with their firearms. It’s just one more example of how every government program increases the need for yet another government program. If we didn’t have HHS, HUD, etc. we wouldn’t need people to police them.
Why train with this particular sort of ammo however. To prove they can gut a whole target with one shot?
What’s in that pipe you’re smoking?
“Maybe the administration really does fear a popular armed uprising upon its rotten pot of alphabet soup.”
It does. The example of the Warsaw Pact’s serial collapse in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s has to scare the hell out of every centralized, topheavy, welfare state government. And those people were NOT armed. Yes, they have cause to fear. It is not just this administration either, but the whole Washington system.
Yes, I’m sure “they” are just lying in wait! (Snort) Oh, btw, the zombie siege is more likely than marching an army of SSA employees on the populace. This is as valid as the Elenin garbage.
It’s pretty embarrassing for a retired General to be this astoundingly ignorant.
I don’t even have time to deal with ALL the stupidities in these articles over and over again, but some highlights:
1) Hollow point ammo is routinely used by law enforcement in the US, because it’s less likely to pass through a target, or richochet. Why are so-called conservatives falling all over themselves to be as willfully ignorant about aspects of guns as the Left is?
In these stories the magical evil of “HOLLOW POINT BULLETS!!!” matches the “ASSAULT RIFLE!!!” nonsense from blithering left-wing idiots.
2) The ammo is going to the SSA Office of Inspector General. They have a small force of armed agents that investigate social security fraud. In many cases this involves going into pretty sketchy neighborhoods and dealing with fairly dangerous people.
3) Like most LE agencies their ammo purchases aren’t based on a calculation of how many people they are going to shoot. It’s ammo to be carried, and also for target practice. Apparently it would be cheaper to not use the hollow point for practice, and local LE agencies often do that, so there might be some small-scale government waste going on here.
4) The NOAA purchase is going to National Marine Fisheries Agents, who have been armed for many years.
How many rounds does an average person shoot off on a gun range, practicing?
Im not sure if the amount of ammo is overwrought, when you consider how many people will be using it.
Must be quite a gaggle of shadies these granny pensionmeisters expect to encounter.
Apparently, nothing NEARLY as good as the stuff you conspiracy theory tinfoil hatters like to toke. Pass that stuff around, I want to believe that I’m important enough for the government to be out to get, too.
If what really bothers people is that so many different agencies have these little police forces, perhaps the Administration could propose a consolidated "National Police Force" combining all of them for efficiency?
That would go over real well, I bet.
So if you are correct, why are these purchSes being “exposed” now?
My position is more philosophical in nature. I think the NSA should handle security measures and the other departments should be doing their thing.
If an agency needs an NSA agent or two in every office to provide proper security, I’m fine with that. But having each department having the ability to provide security and investigate its own problems gives them incentives rlthey should not have.
Because there are peple in this world, on the right and left side politically, that are inclined to believe that no matter who is in office, if they are an opposition candidate, they are part of a GRAND GLOBAL CONSPIRACY engineering THE END OF AMERICA. And they always have “proof” of this, half from unnamed anecdotal sources, the other half being continuations of policies from previous administrations.
“Federal law makes it illegal for anyone with a felony warrant to collect SSI or SSA benefits. Therefore SSA/OIG/OI Special Agents can pursue anyone on any felony warrant who is trying to collect benefits.
When I worked a fugitive task force we had SSA/OIG/OI agents working with us too. If someone is wanted for on state charge for child molestation, but is also collecting benefits, that is a viable fugitive case for SSA/OIG. The felony warrant could be anything a felony habitual traffic offender to someone wanted for murder.”
“lso, describing SSA or SSI benefits fraud as “white collar” shows that the person making that claim has little to no understanding of what those cases are really like. Benefits fraud in those cases is often committed by drug addicts, recently released felons, etc, etc. An SSA/OIG/OI will not likely work a fraud case that fit the typical image of “white collar” crime.”
Typically this kind of ammunition is typically not used for target practice. That cuts a wide swath in the ‘training’ justification. This ammunition is intended to be a very effective and brutal killer.
Typically this kind of ammunition is typically not used for target practice. That cuts a wide swath in the ‘training’ justification. This ammunition is intended to be a very effective and brutal killer.
People just happened to notice them now.
Government solicitations have been public on Fed Biz Opps for years.
So all it took is someone not-very-bright to stumble across the NHS ones, not understand what they were looking at, then make no effort TO find someone that could actually understand what an IDIQ solicitation is, and they simply ran with the wacky conspiracy theories.
Then once the DHS solitications were found, people were frantically searching Fed Biz Opps for every solicitation they could find, and found the SSA and the supposed "NWS" (actually NMFS) small ammo purchases.
It's yet another tale of people suddenly finding information on the internet that's always been out there, but not having the knowledge to understand what they are looking at, and then spreading it through a blog network of idiots.
Anyone running at them or from them anyone agreeing with them or disputing them which means just about anyone they want to shoot !
Even if they did trust you they know you don't trust them and they can't chance you turning on them at any critical moment !
WATCH: Police gun down Michigan man with 46 shots in 5 seconds
So you think your photo of a Nazi executing a mother and child portrays a "nut-job conspiracy"?
You think that didn't actually happen?
Glazers hurt worse....
Facsists. I have no idea who I can defend myself against anymore.
Just have to take my chances.
Well, 0bama a few months back floated a trial balloon threatening to withhold military pay. Imagine how angry some would get if he ordered the withholding of SENIOR’S SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS? Seniors aren’t like today’s anti-gun, lemming youth.. Seniors are armed and more likely to revolt!
And equally certain it can happen again, and happen here.
I think the Dems and Dear Reader really got furious when the Tea Party showed up at their town hall meetings and gave them the what for on socialized death care. Then they tried to pretend we were nobodies and we went to DC...
They were so coddled by the DNC media and self deluded that they thought they would sail right through to global communism and people would be to stupid to know what they were doing. The GOP was barely making a peep.
And then...my to the GOP’s dismay, all of a sudden their world came crashing down and their agenda side lined. Obama has been enacting law by EO and illegally through Fed minions, but he is really taking the risk of getting slapped down.
So...who knows what Dear Reader is going to do with all his bullets. One thing is for sure - the military ran a civil war game and tagged the Tea Party as the enemy to be attacked. Our self annointed elitists are psychopaths.
“Our self annointed elitists are psychopaths.”
I agree with your whole post, but I would include both of the parties that make Washington what it is in this description. They -have- to keep the nation polarized. As soon as the majority of people recognize that the power struggle is not left versus right, but top versus bottom, the tumbril carts will roll.
I want to believe that Im important enough for the government to be out to get, too.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Like John Munch, a fictional (TV) detective in Baltimore then moved to NYC, just ‘knew’ he was on an FBI watch list because of his radical activities ‘back in the day’.
When he finally played his FOIA card, he found ‘they hardly knew him’ except they knew he was a ‘wannabe’ and posed no threat ....
Like the ‘good kid’ that went to Confession and made up sins so the Priest wouldn’t think he was a ‘good kid’.
Or an acquaintance of mine (Black) that claimed he was from the hood etc....He was a College Grad, Football, played NFL, grew up in Middle to Upper Class neighborhoods, father WWII Vet, etc etc etc...
I used to ask him why he he and his kids were considered disadvantaged, while I came from a broken home, quit HS to join Navy, spent my ‘forming years’ in Navy etc etc (not complaining, just trying to get his goat - it worked)....
I will cut to the chase and simply answer the question.
They intend to shoot us. It’s really that simple.
You should be asking why do so many federal agencies have their own police force.
Then you should ask yourself if a bureaucracy can have their own police force, how does that violate the Constitution.
Finally, you should ask yourself, if government agencies have their own police forces, who can execute police force against people who violate ‘federal policies’, how is that different from a totalitarian dicatorship? Hint: no equal justice or trial is necessary for these actions to take place.
176000 rounds? Is that all? seems a little short sighted (no pun intended).
Normally. . . .I’d agree. But when you look at the other numbers. . .
Take the Social Security Administration. 174,000 rounds.
The Social Security Administration admits to having “about 295 special agents”.
That’s 589 and change rounds per special agent. Not knowing what specific pistol they carry, but let’s assume 50 rounds will be more than enough for one magazine in pistol and 2 full mags. And figure 100 rounds for annual qualification. So what are the other 439 rounds for ??
yup pretty much everyone
The reason is that unless there is a range restriction against a certain kind of ammo, shooting your duty carry ammo is preferred. When I go to the range I am using my daily duty carry ammo out of my daily carry magazines to ensure it functions properly. Some ranges have restrictions on lead, so some frangible ammo is purchased for those facilities.
I work for a small agency in DHS that supports BP and ICE and we typically shoot at a minimum 1000 rounds a year, if we only get to the range once a quarter. That is 600 rounds for basic quarterly qualification and about 400 rounds of low light, transition, immediate action, and movement drills. If you think about it, that isn't that much.
Within DHS, CBP has something like 50,000 officers that have to shoot quarterly at a minimum. While many of the port inspectors are only shooting one gun, BP agents might be shooting as many as 4 for qualification. I don't know where the big buy for FLETC Glynco is going. It seems like a lot, but it can get burned up pretty fast depending on what training programs it is going to.
Bump for later reading...