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Romney says Ryan won't oppose abortion in rape cases (Romney supports both rape & incest abortion)
JS Online ^ | Aug. 20, 2012 | James Rowen

Posted on 08/20/2012 5:17:54 AM PDT by xzins

Odious remarks by GOP Missouri Senate candidate Cong. Todd Akin about how few pregnancies result from "legitimate rape" have done more than outrage people across the country and doom Akin's bid to move up from the House.

It motivated the Romney campaign - - already trailing among women voters in recent polls - - to distance itself from Akin by assuring voters that Romney and Paul Ryan - - the "Romney-Ryan administration" - - should they win in November, would not oppose raped women's access to abortion.

"Governor Romney and Congressman (Paul) Ryan disagree with Mr. Akin's statement, and a Romney-Ryan administration would not oppose abortion in instances of rape," Romney spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg said.

You'd probably say that sounds reasonable and humane - - except it was just three days ago that PolitiFact devoted a lot of space to this issue and found that while Romney backed abortions in cases of incest and rape, Ryan did not.

And had been an abortion opponent throughout his entire political career - - backing an exception only when the life of the mother was at stake - - thus earning a perfect score from a leading anti-abortion organization on this basic tenet of conservative ideology and practice.

News coverage of Ryan’s first congressional race in 1998, as well as statements he made to the National Right to Life Committee, a leading anti-abortion group, show Ryan has taken a stricter anti-abortion view than Romney.

The only anti-abortion exception Ryan favors is situations where an abortion is needed to save the life of the mother, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported. The National Right to Life Committee concurs, based on information the group says it collected in 1998 and 2000 from Ryan as a candidate.

(Excerpt) Read more at jsonline.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2012issues; abortion; akin; moralabsolutes; prolife; prolifevote; romney; romneytruthfile; ryan
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To: Girlene
Maybe for some women the emotional turmoil of being reminded for 9 months of their rape would do serious damage to their mental health, especially if they already have serious mental health issues.

I'm sure she'll remember she was raped for 9 months afterward even if she didn't get pregnant from the attack. Maybe perhaps she'll have even more mental health damage coping with the fact she took something that happened to her and then used it as a reason to murder an innocent child in an attempt to "forget."

201 posted on 08/20/2012 4:26:07 PM PDT by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy Saints surrounded.)
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To: Rashputin

“And the tens of millions who have been murdered so that folks like you can sleep well thank you very much.”

Yeah, that doesn’t make any sense at all. Remember, I’m the one NOT advocating for murdering human beings, for whatever reason.


202 posted on 08/20/2012 4:36:18 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: paul544
My God. Someone picked off the scab and the wound is once again festering. The Romney haters are up and at it again. And so we shall continue to try to open their eyes, and hope that they will see the light. Their God, who is also my God, wants them to do the right thing, to put aside their constant need to pick the scab that is Romney/Ryan, to put aside their constant need to pick, pick, pick, to understand what is at stake, and what they must do to secure our Constitution, our liberty, freedom, our FUTURE.

OK, patriots, continue to fight this fight and the haters who are blinded by a need to hate, to pick, who have personal vendettas against whomever, for whatever reasons. Let's keep our eyes on the prize in November. And pray.

203 posted on 08/20/2012 4:37:47 PM PDT by itssme
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To: Boogieman
Your principles, their lives. Makes perfect sense when your principles are more important to you than trying to slow the slaughter any way you can until it can be completely halted. But, so be it. If not bothering to try and slow the rate at which the murders take place because you can't stop it completely helps you sleep better why do you care if what anyone else says makes any sense to you? I personally don't care who sleeps well because they refuse to compromise in order to spare 99% of the infants now murdered think.

Folks who think that way are just like those who don't care about the millions upon millions murdered by contraception, it's all about them, not the murdered infants.

204 posted on 08/20/2012 4:47:29 PM PDT by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
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To: MEGoody; darrellmaurina; randita
I simply see nothing wrong with what he said.

Doesn't matter what you think. What matters is what the ignorant swing voter thinks. We need to BEAT THE DEMOCRAT WITCH and take the Senate. This race was in the bag 2 days ago.

Deadline to replace him is tomorrow. There is no time to ruminate on it and do polling to see if he can still win. He needs to stop thinking of himself and quit before it's too late. The country comes before this 1 man.

205 posted on 08/20/2012 5:06:21 PM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: Boogieman

Ok so your first sentence was:
“I’m advocating that it shouldn’t be legal, period. So, in that situation, nobody is going to call the woman a murderer, because there wouldn’t be a murder, unless she went to one of those “back-alley” clinics the Dems love to remind us about.”

And your last sentence was:

“Not that her opinion doesn’t matter at all, just that her opinion doesn’t give her the right to murder another human being.”

So in reality, right now, if a girl gets raped, becomes pregnant, and has an abortion she is, in your opinion, a murderer, no?

I’m not going to go on with this because we simply hold a difference of opinion with regards to this small portion of the abortion issue. We probably agree on 95% of the issue or more, but I just couldn’t tell a woman pregnant as a result of rape that she had to have the baby, and you clearly could. Thats fine, I would never allow you to do it with my daughter, but if you could do that with yours then that is your perogative. And I’m certainly not blindly functioning on emotion...but I’m not a Vulcan either. I dont think that the details of life are immaterial at all...they are part of what makes life, life. The scenario we are discussing is rotten, its a bad situation, and I dont believe I hold the monopoly on what is the best solution in every such situation. But I dont believe you do either.


206 posted on 08/20/2012 5:28:09 PM PDT by SoCalTransplant (Honey badger's level of concern is negligible.)
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To: sitetest

It is simple. It means you can’t kill it without due process.


207 posted on 08/20/2012 5:53:36 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

Todd Akin is a strong supporter of the right to bear arms; he voted for the Ryan Budget; he has a 96% approval rating by the American Conservative Union; he is pro life and voted against state tax money funding abortions and he voted against the l993 tax increase and education spending increase. LOOK at Claire and her plane? her tax controversy? her vote for Obamacare. Akin made a gaffe and corrected it..he was selected by the voters of MO to run for Senate. To hell with Scott Brown and the other rinos. Google Akins RECORD VS MCCASKILLS...the man is a good conservative and I am ashamed at the gop for jumping ship. Reminds me of how Bush treated Scooter Libby..he abandoned him.


208 posted on 08/20/2012 5:54:12 PM PDT by katiedidit1
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To: SoCalTransplant

“So in reality, right now, if a girl gets raped, becomes pregnant, and has an abortion she is, in your opinion, a murderer, no?”

Well, in my opinion, of course she is. I was just talking in the first sentence about a woman who was only considering an abortion, that’s why I say nobody would call the woman a murderer, since it hadn’t happened yet.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. For me, the principle at the heart of the issue can’t be compromised, no matter what the circumstance. The circumstances have to be immaterial, otherwise everyone and their mother will find a way to justify their own circumstances as being material as well. That’s one thing that humans are very good at: finding a rationalization to justify why the rules shouldn’t apply to them in particular.


209 posted on 08/20/2012 5:59:23 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: katiedidit1; P-Marlowe

I agree. They’re abandoning Akin over an unsatisfactory explanation of some real distinctions. After all, even the law sees a difference between violent rape and statuatory rape.

Do I think there’s a difference between “legitimate rape” and statuatory rape?

Anyone ever heard of the Duke LaCrosse Team?


210 posted on 08/20/2012 6:01:46 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

Dear xzins,

Yes, you couldn’t kill HIM or HER, if our interpretation were the accepted one.

But it’s not.

sitetest


211 posted on 08/20/2012 6:04:26 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

It’s just common sense, sitetest, that a pro-life supporter would understand what we’re discussing. It’s a person, so you can’t kill it without due process.

(I’m of the opinion that referring to a child as an “it” comes to us out of the German language in which the articles der/die/das are masculine/feminine/neuther. The gender of a child is neuter, so the correct nominative is “Das Kind”.

So is Madchen, girl, Das Madchen, and it still baffles me. (there’s probably a keystroke html for an umlaut, but I don’t know it.)


212 posted on 08/20/2012 6:12:47 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: backwoods-engineer

W”e need Romney/Ryan for a very specific set of jobs, related to economic freedom. Overturning Roe v Wade ain’t among them. Not now.”

It’s too controversial. It doesn’t play well in the media. We’ll get to it next time. The economy is too bad to consider it. We don’t want to be portrayed as reactionaries. The women’s vote is too important. The democrats will defeat us if we do it. We’re pro-life but these things take time. The next scotus appointment will take care of it. The democrats are worse on this than we are, surely you don’t support them. You’re not being realistic on what can be accomplished in Washington....

From the new made for TV drama: “The gop Explains 40 years of Roe v Wade”


213 posted on 08/20/2012 6:19:44 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Guns Save Lives! www.VCDL.org)
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To: xzins

"Romney, Obama teams Conservatives clash over tax returns"

 

“Romney is hiding Bain abortion profits in his tax returns,” says Tampa foe

08/16/2012

0 Comments

Baldwin: “Disclose your tax returns and everything else about Stericycle.”

Bain investment “would make Herod blush”


TAMPA, FL (Thursday, August 16, 2012) – Republican spokesmen for a rising “DUMP ROMNEY” rebellion today charged that Mitt Romney is “hiding Bain abortion profits in his tax returns” from investments that “would make Herod blush.”    
http://www.equalprotectionforposterity.com/7/post/2012/08/romney-is-hiding-bain-abortion-profits-in-his-tax-returns-says-tampa-foe.html
214 posted on 08/20/2012 6:31:57 PM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: wagglebee; xzins

“Yes, I know, we’ve been hearing for forty years how it doesn’t matter if certain people are pro-abortion or not. That might help explain why nearly 4000 babies are being slaughtered each day.”

Of course it doesn’t matter. We’re talking an ELECTION after all. And willard can’t lose or, or, or...there might be a plague of boils.

Or something.


215 posted on 08/20/2012 6:37:23 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Guns Save Lives! www.VCDL.org)
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To: xzins

Dear xzins,

That’s nice.

I don’t think most folks would go along with prohibiting abortion by this path, especially if unilaterally imposed by the Executive.

I think that even many pro-lifers would be very uncomfortable with this approach because it feels a lot like mirror image of Roe.

Personally, I think it would do major damage to the cause, and cause a major constitutional crisis if imposed by the Executive. I’m iffier on the outcome if imposed by the courts (as if that’s going to happen, lol). I think it might work if imposed legislative, which in my view would be entirely constitutional. Nonetheless, I’m not sure it would go over well.

Interestingly, Rep. Ryan co-sponsored legislation that traveled along these lines.

But in my opinion, it would be disastrous for the Executive to do this.

Thus, since Gov. Romney is running for president, I think his view can be fairly interpreted from that perspective.

sitetest


216 posted on 08/20/2012 6:44:24 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Venturer
Go ahead and vote for Obama then if you like him better.

Obama doesn’t mind leaving live babies (failed abortions) in a clothes hamper until they die, go ahead vote for Obama.

Don’t talk trash in here about God and how he will punish you for voting for Romney while helping Obama get re-elected. That’s BS.

BRAVO !

217 posted on 08/20/2012 6:48:22 PM PDT by Irish Eyes
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To: xzins

Babies in the neuter gender - Don’t care from where it comes. I don’t refer to babies as “it.” From my point of view, it cedes something to the enemy.


218 posted on 08/20/2012 6:51:27 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: tallyhoe; xzins
tallyhoe wrote: "this blogger is full of it! James Rowen's blog is part of our Purple Wisconsin project. Rowen is a political writer and environmental consultant who has had careers in journalism and public service."



Agree with you, Tallyhoe. Below I have posted info on the leftist writer James Rowen, plus info about one of his old bosses, Milwaukee's leftist ex-Mayor John O. Norquist.

Xzins, the writer James Rowen's job history combined with one of his ex-boss' post mayoral activities, makes it appear likely that the writer James Rowen was the Rahm Emmanuel for his old boss, the leftist ex-Mayor of Milwaukee John Norquist.

The only people missing in the writer James Rowen's list of obvious contacts and influences is Weatherunderground "former" member Bill Ayers, Weatherunderground "former" leader Bernadine Dohrn and BHO himself but absence doesn't necessarily exclude their influence upon the former chief of staff and policy director to Norquist turned leftist writer, James Rowen.

Hint: look at the sections I have highlighted in bold and then note where Rowen's boss taught:





From the article:


Purple Wisconsin


About James Rowen


James Rowen is a political writer and environmental consultant who has had careers in Wisconsin journalism and public service. His blog, which debuted in 2007, focuses on politics, water and other environmental issues.

Rowen served as administrative assistant to (DEMOCRAT) Madison Mayor Paul Soglin and chief of staff and policy director to (DEMOCRAT) Milwaukee Mayor John Norquist. He also worked as a beat and investigative reporter and assistant metro editor at the Milwaukee Journal and Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

(Emphases added)

Purple Wisconsin blog writer and leftist James Rowen




Sustainable Governance Conference Keynote Speaker John O. Norquist



John O. Norquist, President and CEO of the Congress for the New Urbanism and former mayor of Milwaukee, Wisconsin



Keynote Address - "Green is Gold"

John O. Norquist's work promoting New Urbanism as an alternative to sprawl and antidote to sprawl's social and environmental problems draws on his experience as big-city mayor and prominent participant in national discussions on urban design and school reform.

Mr. Norquist was the Mayor of Milwaukee from 1988-2004. Under his leadership, Milwaukee experienced a decline in poverty, saw a boom in new downtown housing, and became a leading center of education and welfare reform.

He oversaw a revision of the city's zoning code and reoriented development around walkable streets and public amenities such as the city's 3.1-mile Riverwalk. Named a Governing magazine Public Official of the Year during his tenure as Mayor, he also widespread recognition for championing the removal of a .8 mile stretch of elevated freeway, clearing the way for an anticipated $250 million in infill development in the heart of Milwaukee.

At CNU (Congress for the New Urbanism) he has joined local activists in numerous cities as a key champion of plans to replace freeways with boulevards. A leader in national discussions of urban design and educational issues, Mr. Norquist is the author of The Wealth of Cities, and has taught courses in urban policy and urban planning at the University of Chicago, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee School of Architecture and Urban Planning, and at Marquette University.

Mr. Norquist served in the Army Reserves from 1971 to 1977, earned his undergraduate and master's degrees from the University of Wisconsin. He represented Milwaukee's south and west sides in the Wisconsin Legislature. He chaired the National League of Cities Task Force on Federal Policy and Family Poverty and served on the Amtrak Reform Council. He is married to CNU (Congress for the New Urbanism) Board Member Susan Mudd. They have two children, Benjamin and Katherine. Mr. Norquist can be reached at jnorquist@cnu.org.

(Emphases added)

James Rowen was chief of staff and policy director to Leftist Milwaukee Mayor John O. Norquist


219 posted on 08/20/2012 7:37:37 PM PDT by bd476
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To: Impy; MEGoody; xzins; wagglebee; randita; All
205 posted on Mon Aug 20 2012 19:06:21 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by Impy: “Doesn't matter what you think. What matters is what the ignorant swing voter thinks. We need to BEAT THE DEMOCRAT WITCH and take the Senate. This race was in the bag 2 days ago. Deadline to replace him is tomorrow. There is no time to ruminate on it and do polling to see if he can still win. He needs to stop thinking of himself and quit before it's too late. The country comes before this 1 man.”

Not going to happen.

I opened my email today and found this:

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=cfea041496ac9845de6412b16&id=36fdb89918&e=90fbe3d679

Click the link for more details, but this shows he's not quitting the race:

“This weekend I made a mistake. I used the wrong words in the wrong way. What I said was ill-conceived and it was wrong and for that I apologize. The people from Missouri who elected me know I’m not perfect. They don’t make perfect people. We all make mistakes. When you make a mistake you to tell people you’re sorry, you don’t try and hide it. I made a mistake and I’m sorry. I have just begun to fight and I’m in this race to the end! We must work together to replace Claire McCaskill in the Senate.”

Like it or not, Akin is the Republican nominee for Senate from Missouri this year. Only he can change that by quitting and he's said today that he's not quitting.

Now if we're going to ask for people to quit, my name on that “please quit” list starts with “R” and ends with “Y.” I think most Freepers will agree with me on that. But it's not going to happen either. The Republican primary voters made their choice, and if we don't like it, tough. Better luck next election.

220 posted on 08/20/2012 7:39:18 PM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: bd476

Bump 219
Good catch.


221 posted on 08/20/2012 7:44:57 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: darrellmaurina

Wrong. He’s “praying” about it tonight, announcement tomorrow.

What’s “tough” is his shattered dream to be a Senator. If his selfishness costs us this seat his career is over whether he likes it or not.

If he is not much stupider than I think he will do the right thing.


222 posted on 08/20/2012 7:45:14 PM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: Impy

A Freeper wrote that he’s in the first stage of grief - “denial”. He certainly seemed that way today with Hannity.

Let’s hope he moves through the rest of the stages of grief at a record pace and reaches “acceptance” by 5:00 tomorrow.

If he does, he will live to fight another day. If he doesn’t, his future in the GOP is over.


223 posted on 08/20/2012 7:55:32 PM PDT by randita (Paul Ryan is "Mr. Smith goes to Washington.")
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To: xzins

Mädchen.

On a Mac, you press Option/Alt and U, then type the letter you want the umlaut to appear over - in this case “a”. Or you can pull up Character Viewer.

I imagine it would be similar on a PC.


224 posted on 08/20/2012 8:01:50 PM PDT by randita (Paul Ryan is "Mr. Smith goes to Washington.")
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To: sitetest

Well said..


225 posted on 08/20/2012 8:05:33 PM PDT by MEG33 (O Lord, Guide Our Nation)
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To: randita

I feel bad for him, he’s a good man who doesn’t deserve this but he screwed up and the country has to come first. There is no time to ask him nicely to quit. Horrible situation.

No sympathy if he decides to be obstinate though. He would be blackballed and deservedly so.


226 posted on 08/20/2012 8:06:24 PM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: Repeat Offender
I'm sure she'll remember she was raped for 9 months afterward even if she didn't get pregnant from the attack.

I never said a woman would not.

Maybe perhaps she'll have even more mental health damage coping with the fact she took something that happened to her and then used it as a reason to murder an innocent child in an attempt to "forget."

....and that is quite possible. I was merely giving a possible reason why a woman might have an abortion after a rape.
227 posted on 08/20/2012 8:34:39 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: mnehring

Thanks, Mnehring.


228 posted on 08/20/2012 10:24:43 PM PDT by bd476
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To: MEG33

Thanks.


229 posted on 08/21/2012 5:03:02 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: MEGoody
RE :”Might as well skip election day and save money with candidates like them.
......
That's certainly what the “establishment” Republicans want you to do. They sure don't want them uppity tea party candidates getting elected

Reid and Pelosi and Obama praise their lucky stars for wackjobs like Akin, but it looks like they may not be that lucky.

I guess all the money he was counting on dried up. I take it you and your MO Akin primary voters are not willing to mortgage your homes to keep him in the race. Talk is cheap.

August 20, 2012 AKIN WILL WITHDRAW: WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

230 posted on 08/21/2012 5:19:24 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: sickoflibs
Reid and Pelosi and Obama praise their lucky stars for wackjobs like Akin, but it looks like they may not be that lucky.

Look at what he actually said instead of knee-jerking along with the media and politicians trying to capitalize on it and demonstrate how he's a "wackjob." He's a bit off in his numbers (odds of conception are about 4 or 5 in 20, odds of conception through rape are about 1 in 20) and there's a problem in asking someone to bring in a police report to demonstrate "legitimate rape" because the unborn shouldn't be killed in any case. There's one thing worse than what the liberal media does and that's folks such as yourself letting themselves be so thoroughly played by them and run with a meme. Grow a set (that's a metaphor) and turn the attention back on the horror of abortion instead of allowing the media and opportunists to blow you off course--unless, of course, that's a course you've wanted to go anyway and this is just a convenient excuse to go that way.
231 posted on 08/21/2012 5:30:22 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: sitetest; Salvation; wagglebee; narses; RKBA Democrat
Interestingly, Rep. Ryan co-sponsored legislation that traveled along these lines.

I think you continue to miss the point, Sitetest. It is obvious to any person of pro-life persuasion -- whether they're willing to admit it publicly or not -- that one cannot just murder a human being no matter who the father is.

In other words, a so-called pro-lifer who accepts rape and incest abortion is either a phony pro-lifer or a pro-lifer who has been trying to appease the culture despite the nagging at his conscience.

In Romney's case, given his background of radical support for abortion, one is drawn to the first -- phony pro-lifer.

Again, another reason to assert that Romney is a liar.

232 posted on 08/21/2012 5:47:42 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: aruanan
RE :”Look at what he actually said instead of knee-jerking along with the media and politicians trying to capitalize on it and demonstrate how he's a “wackjob.

He was trying to make a difficult point to get across to begin with(women will lie about rape to get an abortion) , and he blew up the whole issue claiming that women who REALLY get raped shutdown their biological systems so they don't get pregnant?? (and he is arguing against abortion and contraceptives yet?? ) Sounds like he was saying a raped woman's antibodies attack the unborn child so she doesnt need an abortion.

That is just downright stupid, and politically suicidal. The pro-abortion Dems were celibrating Christmas last night over having this new poster boy for free abortions.

233 posted on 08/21/2012 5:49:07 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: RKBA Democrat; wagglebee; P-Marlowe

There are only “the unfettered” now, RKBA. The Conservatives have sold their souls for a bowl of pottage.

In terms of movement conservative, I suppose I am no longer a capital “C” Conservative for they have become thoroughly untrustworthy, CINO’s.

This nation will experience 40 years in the Wilderness or direct judgment. Those who chastised others for picking a totally immoral man have themselves picked a totally immoral man. They are without excuse and shown to be hypocrites.


234 posted on 08/21/2012 6:02:16 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: sitetest

We could discuss the derivation of the idea that children are “neuter”, Site, if you wish. It actually ties into their being “above” such considerations, above being viewed as sexual beings, and directly related to their innocense.

Having said that, I thoroughly understand your point, given the war over words in our culture. We do not live in a Judeo-Christian culture any longer.


235 posted on 08/21/2012 6:06:58 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: bd476
Governor Romney and Congressman (Paul) Ryan disagree with Mr. Akin's statement, and a Romney-Ryan administration would not oppose abortion in instances of rape," Romney spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg said.

Does the name of the writer of the article mean that the Romney camp did not release the above statement?

It they did release the statement, then anyone reporting it is nothing more than a messenger.

236 posted on 08/21/2012 6:09:52 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: ArrogantBustard

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places...

enim bellare noster contra carnem nec sanguinem non est: sed contra imperia et potentia, contra dominatores mundi tenebrae istae,contra spiritus malitiae in locis sublimis...

...this porton of your quote cried out to be rendered in the sacral toungue of our Holy Church...


237 posted on 08/21/2012 6:24:25 AM PDT by IrishBrigade
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To: ArrogantBustard

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places...

enim bellare noster contra carnem nec sanguinem non est: sed contra imperia et potentia, contra dominatores mundi tenebrae istae,contra spiritus malitiae in locis sublimis...

...this porton of your quote cried out to be rendered in the sacral toungue of our Holy Church...


238 posted on 08/21/2012 6:25:48 AM PDT by IrishBrigade
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To: sickoflibs
As of this morning, local news is indicating Akin is staying in the race. Not sure whether our local guys are correct, or the article you linked to from yesterday is correct. Guess we'll know later today.

As a side note, if Akin drops out, the Missouri Republican Party leaders do not have to replace him with someone who ran in the primary. They can pick a totally different person (and are considering doing so).

Voters had better watch the party leadership carefully. Don't let the establishment guys get their way.

239 posted on 08/21/2012 6:37:58 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: IrishBrigade

I think this whole business cries out for an exorcism. The “spirits of wickedness” have completely taken control of the demonicRat Party, and have infested the Republican Party as well.


240 posted on 08/21/2012 6:43:41 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: xzins
We do not live in a Judeo-Christian culture any longer.
The framework of our culture is still Christian, the basis of our laws is rooted in a Christian culture. In the short run, a Romney view is far more acceptable to the general electorate than our view that all abortion always is wrong. If we can get to 98% fewer abortions and a chance to rebuild our culture, I am for that. To get to 100% we need Christian unity and schools run by priests and parents, not the state. Until that happy day, we have to work with the best we get offered, and a choice between Romney and Obama (and that IS the only choice today) is an easy one.
241 posted on 08/21/2012 6:46:58 AM PDT by narses
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To: MEGoody

I posted earlier on this thread that I am not not arrogant enough to tell him to quit because I am far from MO and I know I am not knowledgeable enough in MO politics to know what the best course is , nor do I like the Republicans party.

But I have a rule about Republicans who blow up their own (identified ) causes and allies with pointless indefensible stuff like this.

Sharon Angle had made a comment about NV unemployed being soft when NV had the highest unemployment in the country and she needed those voters.
It was a great way of electing Reid.


242 posted on 08/21/2012 6:50:46 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: xzins
Dear xzins,

“It is obvious to any person of pro-life persuasion — whether they're willing to admit it publicly or not — that one cannot just murder a human being no matter who the father is.

“In other words, a so-called pro-lifer who accepts rape and incest abortion is either a phony pro-lifer or a pro-lifer who has been trying to appease the culture despite the nagging at his conscience.”

Sorry, no, xzins. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of folks who are pro-life or tend pro-life believe that abortion should be legally permitted where women become pregnant as a result of rape.

Even if they believe that such abortions result in the killing of an unborn human being, they believe that the option to kill that little person must be maintained in law.

Most folks believe that it is cruel and heartless to force a woman to go through nine months of pregnancy with a baby conceived through rape. Many folks actually have ideas like, “The baby is of bad seed, better off dead.” Or, “If the woman is forced to bear the baby, that means the rapist wins.” I've actually had folks say this stuff to me.

You are absolutely wrong to think that folks who are generally pro-life might not also, IN GOOD CONSCIENCE, hold that abortion should be permitted in cases of rape.

Me? I disagree. I don't see how visiting violence on an innocent third party somehow will console the victim of the awful violent and violative crime of rape. I've known women who were raped - and who did NOT procure the killing of their unborn babies - and it was REALLY, REALLY TOUGH to go through those pregnancies. Yet, they emerged on the other end far more whole, far more healed, and led far healthier, happier lives, far closer to God, than if they had paid for the execution of their unborn child.

In this regard, you're preachin’ to the choir.

Yet, I acknowledge that lots of folks really and truly believe that the option for abortion in these circumstances must be legally preserved.

In that these circumstances result in a couple of percent of abortions, I'm more than willing to have these folks on board as pro-lifers, to work to change the laws to generally prohibit abortions, except in these circumstances.

And then, when we've consolidated that victory, we can move forth and persuade folks in conscience that the next step is to protect in law ALL unborn babies.

But, I'll take the partial win represented by a 96% reduction in abortion.

“Again, another reason to assert that Romney is a liar.”

Did you read the article I linked, from Slate? I watched your silly video. A little reciprocity?

After reading it, you may still conclude that Gov. Romney tells lies. But you may think that the lies he tells are not the lies you think he tells.

My own speculation is that in his heart of hearts, Gov. Romney actually holds firmly to his LDS faith, which includes the belief that abortion should generally be prohibited, except in cases of rape, incest, life of the mother, and severe fetal abnormality. From a “theological” perspective (my own view of LDS “theology” is sufficiently low that I don't really recognize it as proper theology - sorry if that sounds a little bigoted), it has to do with what LDS folks believe about the pre-existence of souls, etc. They are truly iffy about whether or not conception and ensoulment happen at the same time.

I also speculate that Gov. Romney doesn't really care very much about this issue. He believes what he believes, but it's just not very important to him. For him, the attraction of the presidency is to solve the problem of a dysfunctional economy, to figure out how to bring down the deficit, boost GDP growth, reform the tax code. He's a self-described problem solver. In his view, the current problems include over-regulation, over-taxation, mis-taxation, governmental over-spending, disastrous growth paths in entitlements, to name a few.

He's right. As far as he goes.

I just think there are deeper, cultural problems that give rise to the current economic difficulties. I doubt that Mr. Romney will do much to address them. I doubt he's even quite aware of them, or understands what to do about them.

That's all right. The cultural problems mostly don't admit of governmental solutions. The best thing government could do to help with these problems is to withdraw from social space currently occupied by government. The best thing government could do, in many cases, would be to shrink, to exit certain social spaces.

I don't think Mr. Romney understands this, but I do think that his economic analysis will cause him to do the right thin unwittingly at least some of the time.

On the other hand, I'm absolutely sure that the Kenyan anti-Christ will do no such thing, but rather, will seek to have government encroach further on civil society, will seek to make us all increasingly clients, nay, slaves, of the welfare state, will seek to impose forcibly radical beliefs and cultural norms on us.

So, with Mr. Romney, we get some short-term and mid-term economic fixes, little by way of addressing the underlying problems affecting the United States. With the Kenyan anti-Christ, we get slavery, exponentially-increased destruction of our culture, as well as destruction of our economy.

I'll take Mr. Romney.


sitetest

243 posted on 08/21/2012 7:02:48 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Rashputin

You are assuming an awful lot there, with nothing to back it up. You assume that if we all roll over and say “ok we’ll let you have abortions in cases of rape and incest”, then 99% of the abortions would stop. I think that’s a laughable fantasy. There wouldn’t be any reduction at all. These women are already prepared to murder their own child to satisfy their selfish interests, so of course they would be willing to lie and say they were raped to get an abortion.

Besides which, if we are such an unreasonable group, then I’m sure you an find more common ground with the pro-abortionists, and craft a large consensus to pass whatever legislation you want. Surely, little old me cannot be stopping you. So, go ahead, do what you think will stop 99% of abortions, and I won’t stop you. I’m simply not going to join you in supporting something I know to be wrong and ineffective.


244 posted on 08/21/2012 7:36:34 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Venturer
Exactly right. All candidates are flawed, IMHO. Not one has tread water on the campaign trail. We are to decide who is better for our country, not who is "perfect". I think a select few abortions may be justified. I believe Romney is too liberal on the issue, but he is FAR BETTER THAN THE COMMUNIST OBAMA. Photobucket
245 posted on 08/21/2012 4:30:29 PM PDT by Quickgun (Second Amendment. The only one you can put your hands on.)
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To: SoCalTransplant
What do you say to her? Not what did Pat Buchannan say, or what does Kiessling say that candidates say, what do you say when you look her in the face to tell her that like it or not, she’s going to give birth? How do you tell a person something like that?

Sadly, pro-lifers who don't support a rape exception almost never stop for even a moment to consider the fact that the victimized woman is also a person, and may also have important rights that should be weighed in the equation.

After all, the right to life does not trump all other rights in law. If I need a kidney transplant to live, but there is no donor organ available, I will die...because I do not have the right to force you to give me a kidney against your will. My right to life does not trump your right to your bodily integrity, and that's a very good thing. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a country where the reverse was true.

246 posted on 08/21/2012 4:56:57 PM PDT by BearArms
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To: Boogieman

>> her opinion doesn’t give her the right to murder another human being.

Are you against the death penalty under all absolutely all circumstances?

Are you against fighting in just wars?

Are you against killing an armed intruder that breaks into your house and threatens your family with death?


247 posted on 08/21/2012 4:59:13 PM PDT by Nervous Tick ("You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.")
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To: Nervous Tick

No, no, and no. What do any of those things have to do with murder?


248 posted on 08/21/2012 5:39:53 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: sitetest
Sorry, no, xzins. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of folks who are pro-life or tend pro-life believe that abortion should be legally permitted where women become pregnant as a result of rape.

I don't give a rat's ass what the majority thinks about murdering babies. It's what God says that matters. This isn't some paltry debate about tax rates. Yes, rape is a horrible crime, but what did the kid that resulted from it do to deserve being murdered?

"Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you."

"The Lord hates hands that shed innocent blood."

249 posted on 08/21/2012 5:58:20 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (Goode over evil. Voting for mitt or obie is like throwing your country away.)
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To: Woodsman27

Romney is not perfect, pro life. However, he will save millions of babies vs Obama and the Dems.


250 posted on 08/21/2012 5:59:45 PM PDT by ABHurst51
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