Skip to comments.Who Does The Government Intend To Shoot?
Posted on 08/20/2012 12:14:50 PM PDT by IbJensen
The Social Security Administration (SSA) confirms that it is purchasing 174 thousand rounds of hollow point bullets to be delivered to 41 locations in major cities across the U.S. No one has yet said what the purpose of these purchases is, though we are led to believe that they will be used only in an emergency to counteract and control civil unrest. Those against whom the hollow point bullets are to be used those causing the civil unrest must be American citizens; since the SSA has never been used overseas to help foreign countries maintain control of their citizens.
What would be the target of these 174, 000 rounds of hollow point bullets? It cant simply be to control demonstrators or rioters. Hollow point bullets are so lethal that the Geneva Convention does not allow their use on the battle field in time of war. Hollow point bullets dont just stop or hurt people, they penetrate the body, spread out, fragment and cause maximum damage to the bodys organs. Death often follows.
Potentially each hollow nose bullet represents a dead American. If so, why would the U.S. government want the SSA to kill 174,000 of our citizens, even during a time of civil unrest? Or is the purpose to kill 174,000 of the nations military and replace them with Department of Homeland Security (DHS) special security forces, forces loyal to the Administration, not to the Constitution?
All my life Ive handled firearms. When a young boy growing up on my fathers farm in Pennsylvania Dads first rule of firearms training was, Never point a gun at someone, in fun or otherwise, unless you intend to shoot them. If you shoot someone, shoot to kill. Ive never forgotten his admonition. It stayed with me through my Boy Scout training, when I enlisted in the army as a Private to fight in the Korea War, during my days as a Ranger and Paratrooper and throughout my thirty-four year military career.
If this were only a one time order of ammunition, it could easily be dismissed. But there is a pattern here. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has ordered 46,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition. Notice that all of these purchases are for the lethal hollow nose bullets. These bullets are not being purchased and stored for squirrel or coyote hunting. This is serious ammunition manufactured to be used for serious purposes.
In the war in Iraq, our military forces expended approximately 70 million rounds per year. In March DHS ordered 750 million rounds of hollow point ammunition. It then turned around and ordered an additional 750 million rounds of miscellaneous bullets including some that are capable of penetrating walls. This is enough ammunition to empty five rounds into the body of every living American citizen. Is this something we and the Congress should be concerned about? Whats the plan that requires so many dead Americans, even during times of civil unrest? Has Congress and the Administration vetted the plan in public.
I fear that Congress wont take these ammunition purchases seriously until they are all led from Capitol Hill in handcuffs. Why buy all this ammunition unless you plan to use it. Unknown to Congress, Does DHS plan to declare war on some country? Shouldnt Congress hold hearings on why the Administration is stockpiling this ammunition all across the nation? How will it be used; what are the Administrations plans?
Obama is a deadly serious, persistent man. Once he focuses on an object, he pursues it to the end. What is his focus here? All of these rounds of ammunition can only be used to kill American citizens, though there is enough ammunition being ordered to kill, in addition to every American citizen, also every Iranian, Syrian or Mexican. There is simply too much of it. And this much ammunition cant be just for training, there arent that many weapons and shooters in the U.S. to fire it. Perhaps it is to be used to arm illegal immigrants?
We have enough military forces to maintain law and order in the U.S. even during times of civil unrest.
We have local police, backed up by each states National Guard, backed up by the Department of Defense. So in addition to all these forces why does DHS need its own private army? Why do the SSA, NOAA and other government agencies need to create their own civilian security forces armed with hollow nose bullets?
Were I the JCS, and if I wasnt already fully briefed on this matter, Id stop the purchase of hollow point bullets, ask the secretary of Defense why all this ammunition is being purchased and spread around the country? If I got answers like the ones Congress got during the investigation of Operation Fast and Furious Id start tracking all ammunition deliveries nationwide to find out what organizations and units are using them, for what purpose and, if it is not constitutional, prepare to counteract whatever it is that they are doing.
This is a deadly serious business. I hope Im wrong, but something smells rotten. And If the Congress isnt going to do its duty and investigate this matter fully, the military will have to protect the Constitution, the nation, and our citizens.
Jerry Curry is a decorated combat veteran, Army Aviator, Paratrooper, and Ranger, who for nearly forty years has served his country both in the military and as a Presidential political appointee.
Those Americans who count and pay the bulk of the income taxes and believe in God are the enemy of the central socialist obama government and of his millions of sycophants both in and out of Washington! We are the reason they're arming themselves to the teeth!
Hate? Yes. I hate the existing socialist government of Barack Barry Soetoro Obama: liar, cheat, empty suit, phony president!
That’s a lot of ammo to protect Barry Soretoro’s SS records.
Despite the ominous sound of what they’re ordering so much hollow point ammo and obviously for possible use against at least some citizens (unruly or otherwise), what’s wrong with target range semi wadcutters if most of this is for ‘practice’ anyway? Much cheaper in bulk.
Some gun expert here is gonna now tell us why they have to use hollowpoints on a shooting range.....you know, temperature, wind, barometric pressure, all that stuff....well, then they might as well be hanging sides up beef up in the range so they can train with a lifelike target.
Methinks that all these government agencies buying up ammo is a stopgap measure to make ammo more expensive and harder to get until they can get laws passed to limit ammo purchases by citizens.
Memo to self ...
Learn to reload.
Did you really think they would sit around and watch Americans start to arm themselves ...often to the teeth these past 3 years?
We’ve got a Presidential campaign going that is as dirty and as rotten as they come. They are throwing everything that they can at Romney/Ryan and it ain’t sticking...
America for several centuries now has been admired around the world for our peaceful transitions of power...I sincerely pray it stays that way.
What a bunch of hysterical panty wetting over nothing. It comes to about 600 rds per agent. They have mandatory training twice a year where they shoot 150 rds. Plus I’m sure they practice in between.
I suspect there are FReepers with more than 174,000 rds of ammo.
I think this is a government waste problem more than anything nefarious.
First, my understanding is that hollowpoint ammunition is only prohibited in warfare by a treaty that the U.S. never signed. It is completely legal for civilian and law enforcement uses, and, though it isn’t standard issue for military, I think Tier 1 and Spec Ops forces use hollow points. They’re bullets ... they kill people. Hardly a war crime.
Second, the SSA does have armed agents for enforcement and protection — for fraud investigations, etc.. Those agents need bullets for practice and enforcement. Not everybody is happy to see the government when they come knocking. The IRS has similar protection ... because unarmed collections agents occasionally get shot at, and they need armed escorts to shoot back.
Third, my understanding is that government budgets are a “use it or lose it” system ... meaning if they don’t burn every allocated dollar, they’ll get less money next time. I’ve heard from military guys of time spent burning through thousands-upon-thousands of rounds of ammo on base at the end of a budget-cycle so they could justify their training ammo budget. This could be a similar situation.
I know of one who claims to be half-way to his goal of a million rounds.
Hey! they're cutting back. Originally they wanted cartridges with solid silver bullets.
Hi ho and awayyyy! (with your tax dollars)
I heard about this recently, and thought it was just training ammo for new policy, but that would have been ball ammo. Why hollow points for untrained units?
All the better to kill us with!
I checked before posting and this article wasn’t revealed to me.
I’d like to look a little past the ammo purchases, and ask
“Why does the Social Security Administration have armed agents”.
Same with NOAA. The DOL. The VA!?!?
I have a feeling that the growing federal monster prefers to have its own agencies armed...to carry out the non-judicial business of enforcing never voted on ‘regulations’.
Wouldn’t it be a hoot if the Dept of Agriculture didn’t have its own shock troops...and they had to rely on local law enforcement to confiscate raw milk, etc.
Here is a list of some of the armed federal agencies:
Some favorites from the list - IRS?, HUD!?!, GSA...huh?, HHS - really?.
I don’t care how many rounds an agent might send through a weapon (although I am a bit baffled by the use of hollow points during training....in the Army, we always used ‘ball’ ammunition during training for cost reasons, for example). But, my panties are tightly wound in a knot over the use of federal ‘agents’ with guns.
‘they need bullets for practice ad enforcement’.
If they are allowed to use guns to enforce their rules,then the question becomes, they can make up any regulations they please, no matter how oppressive and abusive, then they have the power to go out and enforce anything they make up.
None of their regulations have been approved by the people, they just invent them.
If they need to enforce these arbitrary rules, they should go to local law enforcement for an eascort.
They should NEVER have the power of arrest -— to arrest people for breaking some rules some bureaucrats sat around on Monday morning and made up, and passed, without approval of elected representatives.
And so qwhy does The Department of Education have a SWAT team?
Are these lead bullets? ‘Cause I thought the EPA said lead bullets were bad.
Talk to any lefty, and they’ll tell you:
There’s a lot of things that are OK for the gov’t or the [leftist] “elite” to do that you cannot be allowed to do.
This illustrates what’s wrong with government.....social security, homeland security,parks dept, interior, environmental, capital, state and local, FBI, courts, corrections, and on and on. Some of these law enforcement outfits could be done away and their duties be absorbed by other agencies,which would save billions.
I don’t know if DOE has — or why they would need — a SWAT Team. My expertise on agency responsibilities falling under the DOE is limited.
SSA only ordered 174K rounds. That’s less than 600 per agent. Assuming they practice at all, that’s not excessive. They’re obviously not getting in all that many gunfights. Like I said ... this is more about waste than oppression.
Not sure your complaint about regulatory procedure has anything to do with bullet purchases. They’re unelected. Even if they weren’t ... the law would still need to be enforced — probably backed by bullets. If the law sucks ... change it.
Good question. I'm not aware of any soft metal that would work as well as lead in a hollow point round. I've heard that a lot of military rounds are going away from lead due to EPA requirments. My own local outdoor shooting range was 'down' for like a month while they literaly excavated the impact area to cleanup all the lead rounds. Took their sweet old time about it, too.
No kidding. If an SSA agent comes shooting, they’ll run out of ammo way before many of us. Haha.
Frankly, I think the recent rush to buy ammo is just a way for these agencies to ‘fill out’ their budgets...so they can request more money the next year. Its a common goverment trick...and one I was an unwilling participant in many years ago, as I was ordered to burn through several hundred rounds of blanks at the end of a training exercise. So, I’m pretty sure I know why all these requests are coming now.
But lets talk about the ‘hoopla’ about them being hollow points. Somebody has taken it upon themselves to find all these ammo solicitations, and publicize them for the first time...exposing the large scale purchases of ammo by the government. The government reponse “don’t worry your pretty little self, this is just for qualifying at the range.” Well, I’d like to bring on the hoopla....because its government waste on top of government waste, if they are using premium ammunition at the range. Since we the people are paying for this, maybe these federal agencies should be forced to do what we do....and for me that means firing unjacketed crap for practice.
I view these ammo stories as a crack in the window, giving us a small view of what the federal government employees really think of the rest of us. I worked with DA civilians my last year in the Army, so I have a little bit of perspective. They view their day to day jobs in terms of how they can circumvent the law, and violate your liberties...and they treat your money as if it were water flowing from an endless spring. These ammo buy stories expose both of those attitudes.
I think a few of them could easily be consolidated. I don’t see why Justice or Homeland couldn’t supply armed escorts when necessary for some of the agencies where armed agents don’t make as much sense (like the IRS, SSA, NOAA, DOE, etc.). Shooting at a federal agent is a federal crime ... it seems logical that agents that anticipate being shot at could bring a Marshal or Fed along with them.
But, I still hold that this is a case of waste and redundancy, not conspiracy.
Yes, I’ve point-blank asked a lib-in-law if she believed that elected politicians are inherently more moral and intelligent than the general population.
The answer was an unequivocal “yes - otherwise they wouldn’t be there.”
Apply for the newly created job of gunnery sergeant. They need help if they’re going to kill any of us.
With little or no ammo on store shelves, We The People will be hard pressed to continue stockpiling and once inventories are depleted, he'll move to raise the tax on ammo to something like 500% so We The People cannot afford it when the shelves are restocked....and probably putting the ammo manufacturers out of business in the process.
It's a Win-Win-Win for him and his minions.
The article goes on to document that DHS purchased 750 million hollow point rounds in March and another 750 million of other types of bullets including some that are to penetrate walls. Friendly forces consumed roughly 70 million rounds a year in Iraq.
Even NOAA is buying 46,000 hollow points.
Every Tom, Dick and Harry in regulatory agencies are being armed including ‘environmental compliance’.
Be careful how you dispose of those AAA cell batteries. It might appear threatening to those so equipped.
the Obama Administration is afraid that ordinary rounds would penetrate the target and get one of their dwindling supporters. However, they may get splattered with what's left of us.
I’m with you on your theory...
When it was clear that 0bama was going to be elected (when McCain got the nomination), ammo supplies got real short for a while, but then they caught up, and you could actually find some pistol rounds at Walmart.
I’m thinking that the PTB are trying to make it scarce again, because people are steadily buying 2-3 where they would usually buy 1 and putting it back “just in case”.
Except I wouldn’t want to work for the Gubmint.
One more thought regarding the Dept. of Agriculture—don’t they run the National Forest Service? Given that National Forests are being overrun by armed drug cartels, it may not be unreasonable for them to have a SWAT team or two.
The Geneva convention prohibits the use of hollow tipped bullets in warfare. There is absolutely no reason U.S. government agencies like the Social Security Administration or the NOAH should have them AT ALL. If this doesn’t disturb you perhaps you should check your pulse to make sure you have one.
What about all the .40 hollow points the DHS has purchased?
Lets cut the BS. Hollow Points are for killing, not wounding but out and out killing. And who does the Government want to kill? How dumb does anyone think most real Americans think. When you look down the barrel at one of these King Obama's army I think you might have an answer. When have they put down rioters now?
The HPs are less likely to over penetrate if they do actually hit a perp and less likely to ricochet in the more likely event they miss. So it makes sense to get the HPs. Also they are supposed to train with what they shoot so...
Hague Convention, not Geneva Convention.
Re: Who Does The Government Intend To Shoot?
Unruly peons and taxpayers
If the SSA is antyhing like DHS they have to certify with the same rounds they carry on duty. There are all kinds of liability issues for practicing with rounds that are different from normal duty carry. It is probably a violation of service policy to shoot anything other than the hollow points they are issued.
Purchase a Russian AK 47 as the caliber is not the same as American tuff.
You can still get it real cheeeeep.
Dogs; they're going to train against dogs.
Yep; I've noticed that sort of thinking too.
What's to watch out for is also the case of "appeal to self authority" -- which is the same, except that instead of being someone else it's in the first-person: "I wouldn't be here if I didn't have the authority to be here, as justification for their presence."
Ask yourselves how ... these warlike preparations ... darken our land. Are
fleets and armies(hollow point bullets) necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling ... that force must be called in...? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation - the last arguments to which kings(tyrants) resort.
I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this
martial array(martial law) if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motives for it? Has Great Britain(this administration) any enemy, in this quarter of the world to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies(deadly ammunition)? No, sir, s-he has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other.
Even the Marine Corps doesn’t allocate 7500 rounds per Marine for annual sidearms+rifle training.
On average, less than 500 rds/person is consumed.
Not to mention, most training now is performed in simulation.
With the price of ammo, think of the numbers who could be hired for that amount, (...and train them in knife skills).