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To: cunning_fish; driftless2; Fred Hayek; BlueDragon; Buckhead; dirtboy
I just want to add a thought to cunning_fish's post # 156 where it's pointed out that:

AFAIK group claimed it’s responsibility for burning a truck but no one was prosecuted for this act because authorities had no evidence to charge any exact person. They were prosecuted for public pornography, throwing cats at McDonalds, their “performance” in courtroom and damaging another police car, thus they weren’t sentenced to any real jail time.

Have any of you ever lived in a neighborhood where a group of young people were wreaking havoc, but the neighbors could never prove it to the police? I have... many times. I'm betting most (if not all) of you have, too.

In one neighborhood, a group of teens was harassing everyone. Among other things, they even spread feces once all over our front door. The police could do nothing. It was our word against the teens'. Finally, these young people were caught and punished for something minor. I remember hearing them complain that they were being overly-punished. The way they were talking, an outsider who didn't know their history would've felt bad for them. But those of us who lived in the neighborhood were relieved.

Where my folks lived, a few young people have been terrorizing the neighborhood for years. They slit tires, crack windows with BB guns, throw used condoms all over lawns, steal things from private property, and verbally harass the neighbors. Everyone hates but fears them, but for a long time, the police could do nothing. Neither could other local authorities. These young people also deal drugs, and finally one was busted for drugs and put into prison. Things got quieter in the neighborhood. An outsider, who didn't know their history, might think, "This poor young man has been thrown in prison..." But, those of us who knew the history wish they all could be put away for awhile.

Think of Russia as "the neighborhood" and PR as "the neighborhood punks." The police finally got them on something. That's why most Russians are happy about it. We're the outsiders.

164 posted on 08/23/2012 10:59:32 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes
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To: Tired of Taxes
Why must you persist in exaggerating the evils of these disaffected Russians? Now you are linking them to crime in your own neighborhood!

Have you considered how the fallout due to the how & why these scene stealing "protestors" were eventually prosecuted, can be more damaging to the Church overall, then it is helpful?

Remember what the [son of] Man said;
"The kingdom of heaven is within".

Why be in such a hurry to wed the powers of the State, and it's own effort to affect civil order, to the Church?

Consider what PR was singing about. Do they have a point? Is there some dis-connect between what the Church stands for as to morality, and how the Russian State exercises it's own powers? There is some un-evenness there, though it also stands to be mentioned that the present Russian State, is not the first to fall short of the high mark.

This other thread has what looks to be an accurate translation of their little protest song;

The Church has always endangered it's own holiness when too strongly allied with State.

If we try to force the one, before the other, then the girls are right. What we result with is truly crap, crap, crap. Decidedly, not so holy.

Or do you think we can force the issue by rule of law? Efforts along those lines have often enough fallen woefully short. The exceptions to this can be seen in clearest example, in the individual first, whom can then lead others by example.

Yet we are living in an age when even the best examples will scarcely be followed, and if followed, then by a great many, somewhat superficially. When that occurs, let us not be so quick to declare victory, when looking at present, and past times.

By which I mean, there is strong tendency among some Catholics to look back upon times when their own churches were blended quite directly & strongly with the powers of State, as some sort of past, rose colored Nirvana.

Clean first, the inside of the cup, then one can see enough to clean the outside. Other efforts tend to result in only smearing the dirt around.

166 posted on 08/23/2012 12:42:28 PM PDT by BlueDragon (going to change my name to "Nobody" then run for elective office)
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To: Tired of Taxes

It’s a fair point that they are repeat offenders insofar as public disruption is concerned.

Nevertheless, there are a couple of problems with your analogy.

1. PR, by their court statements, have important political, theological and cultural points to make. Teenage hoodlums do not.

2. Putin and his gangster government are the ones terrorizing the neighborhood.

167 posted on 08/23/2012 1:54:11 PM PDT by Buckhead
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