Skip to comments.Will Dumping Math Requirements Increase College Grad Rates? / worthless college degrees
Posted on 08/23/2012 5:31:40 PM PDT by wintertime
HetchingerEd is offering a rather radical proposal to increase the number of American students who graduate college: dump math. Specifically, the argument is that since many college students, a disproportionately large number of them of an African-American or Hispanic descent, are unprepared to tackle college-level mathematics courses, they might be stymied by a requirement that all those receiving a degree from a particular institution must pass the freshman version of the course.
A fifth of students entering a four-year college dont have the needed math skills to pass the course and are forced into remediation. Nearly half of community college freshmen find themselves in a similar situation. This delay makes it much less likely that they will be able to graduate on time or graduate at all. Only a tenth of community college students who take remedial college courses finish their college programs in 3 years, and only a third of four-year students complete theirs in 6 years.
Those statistics come from a report on remediation published in April by Complete College America. The reports numbers suggest that math requirements may be the primary obstacle to graduation for many students: In many states, a larger percentage of students enroll in remedial math courses than in remedial English courses.
These numbers ignited a debate among education experts with many calling for better algebra preparedness in high school, while an increasingly loud minority suggesting that colleges do away with universal math requirements altogether.
(Excerpt) Read more at educationnews.org ...
Major universities are now charging from $1000 to $5000 per year additional tuition to business, engineering and science majors. It’s a disgrace.
Wow! I was completely unaware that colleges and universities were doing this.
I struggled with math for decades, until I homeschooled my kids through the Saxon Math curriculum. THEN it finally made sense.
The right curriculum is essential for success in math.
Where I work if you don’t understand at least the basics of calculus (integrals and derivatives), if you don’t live and breath algebra, and if you cannot do boolean logic in your sleep - don’t even apply.
“If more of the citizenry understood compounding interest and exponents, there would be torches and pitchforks in DC, and most every statehouse in America.”
My daughter was a bit worried about her college math class. I looked at the curriculum and she’d done nearly every thing in middle school already (yes, middle school.) The new things she did learn was about compounding interest and how to amortize a mortgage, but then we live in Las Vegas with the highest foreclosure rate in the U.S.
I started as a psych major in college. I had to take calculus. I ended up going into nursing. The idea of everyone with a pocket calculator was still a rather new concept. We had to figure out IV drip rates and emergency med dosages in our heads. In NICU, we had to figure out emergency meds according to micro-grams per kilo, per hour, or one-time dose, and possibly how diluted, per kilo. Now, the NICUs have laminated cheat sheets and no one needs a calculator. Not that many nurses now know how to even do the calculations anymore, even with a calculator. God help you if the cheat sheet gets lost.
Must not interfere with the revenue streams of Colleges and Universities.
Yeah! But you guys were supposed to do that! Your were supposed to solve my complex design problems! That was your job,,,, not mine!
Yep. I just paid a $542 differential for the first junior year semester on Friday for #1 son, who is in biochemistry/microbiology. They don’t even try to hide it.
There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don’t.
It's sad to see that the current vision, pushed by College Profs and the Education Establishment no less, of what a well rounded Liberal Arts education should consist of and how Liberal Arts grads are supposed to relate the world and at what intellectual level they should operate at has fallen so low.
In the past, Liberal Arts grads and their Profs always prided themselves as the ultimate in well rounded generalists who relied on clear, critical thinking honed by a working knowledge of History, the Arts, the Physical Sciences, the Social Sciences, Philosophy and Logic and basic Mathematical principals (in many older, traditional schools Math was actually an adjunct to the Philosophy Dept) that more than made up for what it lacked in depth it more than made up for by the breadth of exposure to all diverse aspects of intellectual endeavor.
It's too bad that the goal of a University education is no longer to teach people how to think, but is instead to get them to graduate with a Diploma that is becoming an increasingly worthless piece of paper credentials.
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Bah! When I started coding we didn’t even have 1’s; only 0’s. And we were grateful, GRATEFUL to even have that.
1912 Eighth Grade Examination for Bullitt County Schools
Take this 1931 8th grade test (you will probably flunk)
My wife is a RN, and back when she was in school for Nursing, she said that a LOT of the students failed because of the Math alone. Luckily, she was always great in Math, and it was a breeze for her. I looked at it, and I could fully understand how it could be very difficult for some(I'm not great with Math myself).
Ding Ding Ding - We have a winner.
This is the reason employers are now demanding internships.
Personally, if I were an employer I would ask for SAT or ACT scores. ( I retired a few years ago and no longer hire people.)
Historically, little of the work done in the U.S. needed a college degree, and even today, most of what a person learns about a job is "on the job". A solid eighth grade education was more than sufficient for my parent's generation ( born 1913) and should be enough today, coupled (possibly) with selected college level course work. Employers should dump the college degree requirement and merely use SAT scores and ( possibly) a few specific college courses.
Charles Murray, author of "The Bell Curve" recommends dumping the majority of college degrees and moving toward certifiable qualifying exams. A tremendous amount of course work is already available for *free* online. What is missing is a way to prove to an employer that the information has been mastered. Certifiable qualifying exams, SAT and/or ACT scores, and internships could prove to an employer that an applicant was motivated, focused, and intelligent enough to do the job.
Just imagine how many high paying jobs are available for a B.A. in Afro-American or Latino Studies (with or without a math requirement)? Answer: zero, zip, nada, none.
Better that high school grads go into a trade school or other professional training that doesn't need a college degree. One thing for certain, you won't be paying for a worthless $100,000+ piece of paper with an embossed seal.
Please... we DO NOT need to further dumb down education in this country. We’ve already dumbed it down to the point that Wendy’s has trouble find people who can reliably take orders and run the cash register. Kids graduating today have mush for brains. It’s sorrowful.
We need to start building education back up. The sooner the better.
The only thing that should be graded in America’s schools...including its universities...is self esteem.Grads with high self esteem will be able to compete very well with the Chinese,Japanese,South Koreans and Germans.
Probably OK unless the degree is in mathematics, statistics, any quantified science, medicine, engineering, computer programming or quantified business major, including accounting. You could dispense with the GBS/GBA requirements for those, but not with the math, physics, and core courses. Simply impossible to do without those. Sorry, but people doing science and technology need to be well-educated. Aptitude or general intelligence (which is mostly what SAT measures) are not enough.