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NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire
Fox News ^ | 8-25-2012 | AP

Posted on 08/25/2012 1:50:12 PM PDT by servo1969

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To: servo1969

I guess using “civilians” as a backstop is new police procedure...

Dks. They need more range time and it should be in a kill room with moving targets.

As it is, their control and judgement should result in permanent desk time or expulsion from the force with a public explanation so they can never work for another department.

Doesn’t make them bad guys, just dudes who should not carry a gun on duty.


61 posted on 08/26/2012 6:02:45 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: servo1969

Two officers fired 16 shots with at least nine shot being so errant as to injure 9 people!!!???

Seriously? That is nearly 60% off target and face palm failure, in the least.

And yet, they claim the bad guy had 10 holes in him. How?

By my math, only 7 bullets could have struck the gun man.


62 posted on 08/26/2012 6:12:43 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Spktyr

13# triggers? Haven’t heard of that.

They should standardize on Kimbers. Best triggers evuh and allow you stay on target.


63 posted on 08/26/2012 6:25:20 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: JudgemAll

As another example of “why we need more gun control”, this story has completely fizzled. The antigunnies will look like real idiots if they try.

Out in the vast hinterlands beyond the Hudson River, ordinary folks will look at this and (a) trust the police even less, (b) thank their lucky stars they don’t live in New York, (c) realize each is responsible for his/her own defense, and (d) acquire the guns & ammo needed to do so.

Nannie Bloomberg’s chief of police is getting his @#$ reamed over this, I betcha.


64 posted on 08/26/2012 6:36:52 AM PDT by elcid1970 (Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind. Deus vult!)
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To: Frank_2001

Ricochets and fragments is the official story, and I believe it. I was objecting to 16 rounds being fired to drop a target at relatively close range. Seems a bit unprofessional.


65 posted on 08/26/2012 7:35:35 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: matt04
***Anyone know what type of ammo NYPD uses? ***

This is from wiki:

New NYPD officers are allowed to select one of three 9mm service pistols: the SIG P226 DAO, Smith & Wesson Model 5946, and Glock 19. All are modified to a 12-pound (53 N) trigger pull.
The 9mm explains all shots fired by the cops -- no stopping power like a 45 ACP or an 'in between round' like 40S&W, and the 9mm explains all the collateral damage to the civilians. As I bet the rent in NYC they have to use the 'humane' FMJ round which is notorious for 'through and through' shots -- they did hit the nutcase Johnson 10 times yet civilians got shot too. And IMHO a 12 pound trigger pull is insane. The Glock 19 factory standard is 5 1/2 pounds.

Even the Chi PD allows the cops to use the .45ACP and 40 S&W. Only rookies are restricted to a 9mm for the 1st eighteen months, then they can 'arm up'. And the CPD can use Hollow Points and factory std trigger pulls (I checked this all yesterday). Another diff is Chi Cops have to buy their own service weapon(s). But recently Glocks became verbotten. Some Chief had 'an incident' with his Glock and had them banned.

66 posted on 08/26/2012 8:00:01 AM PDT by Condor51 (Si vis pacem, para bellum.)
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To: The_Reader_David
Ricochets and fragments is the official story, and I believe it. I was objecting to 16 rounds being fired to drop a target at relatively close range.

Given the close range, some of the ricochets may have been direct hits which exited the body. According to reports, a fair number of the bullet holes in the perp were exit wounds.

67 posted on 08/26/2012 8:11:25 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: servo1969

“I’m a cop, you idiot!”


68 posted on 08/26/2012 11:08:59 AM PDT by W1_hooyah (I actually did vote for John Kerry, right before I voted against him.)
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To: Vendome

No, you don’t understand. The weapons they issue have been modified to have triggers that heavy to compensate for their institutional firearm training issues.

It wouldn’t matter if they chose Kimber or H&K or STI. They would still mandate stupid heavy triggers instead of training their personnel properly and holding them responsible for their conduct with firearms.


69 posted on 08/26/2012 11:18:44 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: marktwain
I am told that you never know until it happens to you.

Especially by people who panic and shoot innocent bystanders....

70 posted on 08/26/2012 11:36:25 AM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: Condor51

I believe NYPD issues Speer Gold Dot. 124gr.HP rounds. 9mm.


71 posted on 08/26/2012 11:41:33 AM PDT by donozark (Never loan money to a preacher.)
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To: Travis McGee

I remember reading about an incident in Texas... Houston?... where dozens of cops surrounding a house opened fire on a gunman who emerged and hundreds of rounds hit the HOUSE and a few hit the gunman.

I guess nobody wanted to be the one to actually shoot the guy or something


72 posted on 08/26/2012 12:09:44 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Spktyr

I don’t get it. Why Would anyone want a 18# trigger


73 posted on 08/26/2012 1:57:56 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Travis McGee; Timber Rattler; sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker

Boy, it’s a good thing guns are illegal in New York...folks could hurt around there...

Oh, wait....


74 posted on 08/26/2012 2:00:14 PM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: donozark

Interesting. Since they limit the handguns to 9mm, I’m surprised the super pc liberal NYC would do that. Hollow Points are like those banned ‘dum-dum bullets’. /s

an aside: Every now and then I’ll check suburbs near me on what ammo they have out for bids and too many (IMO) are still using FMJ. Luckily, violent crime is basically non existent in those burbs.


75 posted on 08/26/2012 2:02:35 PM PDT by Condor51 (Si vis pacem, para bellum.)
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To: marygonzo
This is the Perfect Storm that has been years in the making. You are correct about all the lawsuits. Bloomberg is such a dufus.
76 posted on 08/26/2012 2:15:36 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
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To: af_vet_rr

One head shot from either Officer and the event is over!

The ten foot range makes this a deplorable shooting.


77 posted on 08/26/2012 2:30:51 PM PDT by BobNative
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To: GeronL

I think that was Lubbock TX, and it was an over response to a single guy in a house who was pissed at his cheating wife, and was throwing her stuff on the yard. Instead of sending a few boys in blue to talk to him low key, the sent a SWAT Team. He went inside, and they demanded he come out. One SWAT cop had a negligent discharge, leading to a circular firing squad through the house that killed a cop or two. They pinned these “murders” on the man inside, and he would have been fried, but he had no rifle in 5.56 mm. OOPS! So they perforated his house with 100s of bullets, but released him from the murder rap. “Sorry!”

Another case of those fantastic jacked-up police depts just doing the job so much better than civilians can ever imagine doing it.


78 posted on 08/26/2012 6:49:53 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: servo1969

Certainly justified. Good is not a term I would use however. Once they decided on hot pursuit and the guy pulled his gun the shooting was justified. The guy closest to the perp did OK imho. Combat stance, took some cover. Both hands on the weapon arms flexed a bit and looked like he had a sight picture.

The other cop? Not good. I think you will find that the only thing he hit was civilians .


79 posted on 08/26/2012 7:04:15 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (.)
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To: Vendome

Because the NYPD brass and the NY government are idiots. They won’t train their cops properly (particularly on trigger discipline) and they won’t punish cops that break firearms handling rules.

NYPD doesn’t teach the basic rules of firearms safety and thinks a superheavy trigger will fix the problem.


80 posted on 08/26/2012 10:35:27 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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