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Just how bad is the damage?
Salon ^ | October 4, 2012 | Steve Kornacki

Posted on 10/04/2012 6:22:32 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

Let’s get the obvious out of the way:Barack Obama lost last night’s presidential debate. The question is how badly it will hurt him.

Heading into last night,the president enjoyed a lead of 3.1 points in the Real Clear Politics polling average. The margin was roughly consistent with where the race has been since Romney secured the Republican nomination in the spring,but it did reflect a slight tightening over the past week. But the immediate verdict from voters who watched the debate was clear,with 67 percent saying Romney fared better in a CNN flash poll,compared to just 25 percent for Obama. In CBS’s poll of undecided voters, Romney was the victor by a 46-22 percent spread.

Over the next few days,Romney stands to reap some significant benefits from what happened in Denver:

* The best press coverage of his life. Well,that’s probably overstating it, but Romney is in for the most favorable stretch of media treatment he’s received as a general election candidate. Since late August, when Republicans staged a dud of a convention,Romney has been portrayed as a candidate in decline, and Obama as a resurgent front-runner. There was good reason for this. Democrats put on perfectly choreographed convention, Romney suffered through the release of the devastating “47 percent” video,and polls confirmed that the momentum was squarely on Obama’s side. Anything short of a clear victory by Romney on Wednesday would have perpetuated this narrative. But he turned in the performance he needed (with a huge assist from a bafflingly docile Obama) and has given the media a new storyline: Romney’s back in it – now we have a real race! At least for the next few days,it will be Romney who is treated as the candidate on the rise,and Obama as the one desperately seeking to contain the damage..............

(Excerpt) Read more at salon.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: debate; obama; obamabiden2012; presidentialdebate; romney
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To: longtermmemmory
but there would not be a 16 TRILLION national debt.

No doubt. My point was that the same figures would have been manipulated with a different formula to hurt Repubs.

101 posted on 10/04/2012 7:26:51 AM PDT by TangoLimaSierra (To the left the truth looks like Right-Wing extremism.)
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To: arbee4bush

The response is: He plans to cut rates across the board, and cap deductions — he talked about an aggregate cap on deductions, not eliminating deductions. Many in the middle class, esp. in the lower middle class, will not be affected by the cap on deductions, but will still see their rates, and thus their taxes drop. The cap on deductions will mostly prevent upper income earners from shielding their income from taxation.

As an aside, I’d prefer a more radical version of Romney’s idea: a cap on the amount of personal income excluded from taxation at the normal rates by any means (though obviously business expenses would remain fully deductible, since only the profit, not the revenue is actually income and I’d leave charitable contributions uncapped — we need to support the civil society, the ‘space between government and the individual’), I’d apply the cap to the total amount of deductions (other than charitable contributions and business expenses), plus tax exempt income, plus the amount of tax credits divided by the taxpayer’s marginal rate, plus the amount effectively shielded from taxation by favorable lower tax rates on classes of income (I don’t feel like working out the formula this morning).


102 posted on 10/04/2012 7:26:57 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: nolongerademocrat

Exactly-— 100%


103 posted on 10/04/2012 7:27:32 AM PDT by depenzz (As long as there are tests, there will be prayer in public schools.)
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To: Fawn

LOL!!!


104 posted on 10/04/2012 7:27:58 AM PDT by Obadiah (The corrupt MSM is the enemy of the American people.)
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To: Daveinyork

After last night I think the Obama “base” has shrunk a bit


105 posted on 10/04/2012 7:28:57 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Presbyterian Reporter

The base for Romney has been energized bigtime.
I just contributed to campaign Mittens this morning...never thought that would happen in a million years.


106 posted on 10/04/2012 7:32:50 AM PDT by Mountain Mary (Pray for our Republic...)
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To: patton

***the real loser was the MSM. They were exposed as complete sycophants.***

Watch for them to turn on him. They now smell blood in the water.


107 posted on 10/04/2012 7:32:54 AM PDT by nanetteclaret (Unreconstructed Catholic Texan)
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To: sportutegrl
Post debate, every CNN commentor and Stephanie Cutter, whom they interviewed, said that Romney wasn't specific. But the way they said it was forced. Anderson Cooper seemed to be saying it as an afterthought, like oh, yeah, I forgot that I was told by the Obama team before the debates to say 'Romney wasn't specific.'

I actually thought the exchange where Obama charged Romney with not being Specific was one of the key ones of the night.

Romney's reply was basically "I am not required to be specific, as President I will say 'this is what I want to do' and then will sit down with congress and figure out the best way to do it."

108 posted on 10/04/2012 7:36:35 AM PDT by commish (Freedom tastes sweetest to those who have fought to preserve it.)
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To: GeronL

I hope you’re right. If so, that means the pollsters will have to do even more oversampling of Dems.


109 posted on 10/04/2012 7:36:46 AM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: Fawn

Thanks for the good laugh this morning, I find that picture very funny. You could use many captions with it or nothing at all. Thanks again.


110 posted on 10/04/2012 7:38:20 AM PDT by depenzz (As long as there are tests, there will be prayer in public schools.)
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To: The_Reader_David

Thanks-I am better debating conservative principles and social issues. Taxes/numbers are harder for me to grasp and thus debate.


111 posted on 10/04/2012 7:38:58 AM PDT by arbee4bush (My Dad, My Hero. Love You Dad!!)
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To: ANGGAPO

Windows in office building no longer open.

Guess why?


112 posted on 10/04/2012 7:39:57 AM PDT by patton (Tinker toys, watches, and shiny things - we all sell rocks for a living.)
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To: Daveinyork

People who were planning to vote for Obama are not going to change their minds, and in fact many of them are claiming that Obama won the debate, and that Romney told a bunch of lies, irrational as it might sound, but they are irrational people. Therefore, I don’t think the debate will have much, if any, effect on the election.

&&&
Exactly. As I said on another thread, I cannot believe any more than 20-80 voters changed their minds because of the debate. The percentage of 0bama voters who even watched was probably 10% or less.


113 posted on 10/04/2012 7:40:10 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Pray for our republic.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
President Xanax just doesn’t cut it.

This in the New York Times? Very damning statement about a president. Perhaps he knows something the rest of us only suspect?

114 posted on 10/04/2012 7:41:08 AM PDT by ladyjane
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To: Obadiah
-- Romney said: "Listen, I've been in business for 25 years. I have no idea what you're talking about. I maybe need to get a new accountant. The idea that you get a break for taking jobs overseas is simply not the case." --

It depends on what "getting a tax break" means. I think what Obama is saying is that the taxes overseas are lower than in the US, so it's attractive for businesses to move overseas. So, he's going to save jobs by raising taxes? Maybe save jobs overseas, but not in the United States.

115 posted on 10/04/2012 7:42:30 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: nanetteclaret

Bingo..the only thing MORE important to the MSM than their ideology is their vanity..the need to seem correct on all things...it will become very difficult for them in the next few weeks to continue the fiction that Obama’s win in inevitable..


116 posted on 10/04/2012 7:43:13 AM PDT by ken5050 (Laura Ingraham:"If the GOP can't beat Obama in this economy; shut down the party!")
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To: nanetteclaret

I can’t remember where I read it, but I always loved this exchange:

“What kind of obsequious sychophant are you?”

“What kind of obsequious sychophant would you like me to be?”


117 posted on 10/04/2012 7:43:13 AM PDT by patton (Tinker toys, watches, and shiny things - we all sell rocks for a living.)
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To: depenzz

I stole it off of Facebook....feel free to use and post everywhere!


118 posted on 10/04/2012 7:43:34 AM PDT by Fawn (DEAR JESUS....PLEASE LET OBAMA LOSE.....AMEN.)
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To: nuconvert
If his handlers decide it was so bad that they don’t think he’ll do much better next debate, there will be drone attack in Libya to show everyone how presidential Obama is & that he’s been distracted by more important things than debates.

Yes. Expect the Middle East to blow up sometime in the next few weeks.

119 posted on 10/04/2012 7:46:39 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Charlie Daniels - Payback Time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWwTJj_nosI)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I disagree with your assessment on the conventions, but agree with much of what you say.

This is the first time most American voters got to see Romney unfiltered and not just being attacked in the press or lied about in a 30 second attack ad. Most people liked what they saw; a presidential looking man.

120 posted on 10/04/2012 7:48:38 AM PDT by KC_Conspirator
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
:)


121 posted on 10/04/2012 7:48:50 AM PDT by SparkyBass
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To: KC_Conspirator
I disagree with your assessment on the conventions, but agree with much of what you say.

I posted an article. It is not my opinion.

122 posted on 10/04/2012 7:51:55 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cboldt

No, the clear implication Obama was making is that the federal tax code gives businesses a tax break for moving operations overseas. That is completely false and was stated by Obama to deliberately deceive.


123 posted on 10/04/2012 7:52:25 AM PDT by Obadiah (The corrupt MSM is the enemy of the American people.)
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To: SparkyBass; Fawn

Great photo journalism.

:)


124 posted on 10/04/2012 7:53:16 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: ladyjane

GOre blames the altitude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtkw8stAlrM&feature=share


125 posted on 10/04/2012 7:57:16 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: Presbyterian Reporter
“People who were planning to vote for Obama are not going to change their minds,”
What you say is true. But, will they vote?

This is key. This election will hinge on which side is more motivated to show up at the polls (and for the Dems, whether they see any point in helping to cheat).

126 posted on 10/04/2012 8:00:28 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Charlie Daniels - Payback Time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWwTJj_nosI)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Oh


127 posted on 10/04/2012 8:00:49 AM PDT by KC_Conspirator
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To: Vigilanteman

I thought the GOP convention was great. Not a dud at all.


128 posted on 10/04/2012 8:02:12 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: ken5050

It was one thing to prop 0 up when there was a chance that not many people knew the facts, but 60,000,000 people saw the debate last night and there is no hiding from it. They know they will really look foolish if they even try, but more importantly, the MSM **WILL NOT** tie themselves to a loser! Image is everything to them and 0 looked, sounded, and acted like a loser and 60,000,000 people saw it. Some of the hard-core will continue to make excuses for him, but the meme is going to turn. You are right about their vanity: they have to be “with-it” and “hip” and “cool” at all times and 0’s “coolness” and “hipness” is gone - replaced by bumbling and foolishness. Didn’t Anderson Cooper tweet last night that “Obama really does need a teleprompter?” (I think I saw it on the Live Thread.) This is an indication that changes are coming in the media’s treatment of him. This change is in the media only; 0’s followers will probably get more rabid.


129 posted on 10/04/2012 8:04:29 AM PDT by nanetteclaret (Unreconstructed Catholic Texan)
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To: Red Badger
Good heavens! In Salon?........I saw the debate and I didn’t think it was as bad as all that the Left is making it out to be. Crocodile tears?.........

After 20 minutes I was asking if there was a mercy rule like in some high school sports. I started to cringe and winch involuntarily. I thought it was going to be much closer battle of ideas and values.

130 posted on 10/04/2012 8:06:29 AM PDT by USCG SimTech (Honored to serve since '71)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
perfectly choreographed convention???

Seriously? God out of the platform, God back in, voice vote x3 and all? So that was planned to happen that way???

131 posted on 10/04/2012 8:09:36 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Obama gives us the gift of downward mobility)
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To: nanetteclaret
The funny thing about so-called "tipping points" and/or "high tides" is that one never recognizes them until they're passed..this may well be the one..when (not if) the MSM, or at least a good % of them) turn on Obama, it will be all over..

Because it can't be that the policies are at fault, therefore it will have to be Obama's fault..

Off topic...I see that you're in Texas...I know that Cruz will win easily ( and can't wait to see and hear him in the Senate) but he's been pretty much off the national radar last few weeks...after the convention, he'd been out there often as an advocate for Mitt. Is this by choice?

132 posted on 10/04/2012 8:14:41 AM PDT by ken5050 (Laura Ingraham:"If the GOP can't beat Obama in this economy; shut down the party!")
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To: Obadiah
-- No, the clear implication Obama was making is that the federal tax code gives businesses a tax break for moving operations overseas. --

Technically, it does. It can't tax overseas businesses the same way it taxes domestic ones. Foreign businesses have lower US taxes than US businesses do.

At any rate, I agree with you that Obama is being deceptive.. Obama is appearing to say that US tax code somehow encourages businesses to move overseas (and I'll say again, it probably does - or taxes in combination with other regulations), and that businesses that don't locate in the US are somehow taking advantage of some tax loophole that Romney wants to keep, and Obama wants to eliminate.

133 posted on 10/04/2012 8:16:48 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: sportutegrl

One of the Obamzombies in Luntz’ focus group on Fox was spouting the same talking point.


134 posted on 10/04/2012 8:19:28 AM PDT by amishman
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To: ken5050

I don’t know.


135 posted on 10/04/2012 8:20:32 AM PDT by nanetteclaret (Unreconstructed Catholic Texan)
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To: Cboldt

Yes, on that sleight-of-hand we agree.


136 posted on 10/04/2012 8:25:36 AM PDT by Obadiah (The corrupt MSM is the enemy of the American people.)
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To: arbee4bush
Help me out here to respond to this from a lib: So I'm just unclear on something. Romney says he will not raise taxes for middle class. But he will eliminates many deductions. How is this different? If I used to get a refund and will now have to pay isn't this essentially the same thing. Please explain. The discussion regarding eliminating ddeductions is for those making more than $250,000 not the middle class.
137 posted on 10/04/2012 8:40:35 AM PDT by koraz
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To: deport
I doubt a single hard core supporter changed after this talk session.

That would be true even if Zero had cried and begged Romney to stop.

MY BIL (registered R but ALWAYS votes D) sored it 15/3 for Romney. Proving your point his wife, a Jew, and fervent member of the NEA, scored it 10/8 Romney. Which is surprising considering her viewpoints. But I sincerely doubt that even had Zero made an obvious antisemitic remark she would consider voting for R.

However, R may have rung the media's bell. They may be thinking they better start reporting that Zero is not a shoo in to cover their butts in the event of a R win. And that could be good for our base.

OTOH, I believe that after a short period of half decent coverage the media will double down on R, attempting to negate the benefit of the debate. God only knows the nasty stuff that is now forthcoming from the O campaign.

138 posted on 10/04/2012 8:50:37 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: USCG SimTech

Never bring an ideology to a ideas and values fight...........


139 posted on 10/04/2012 8:51:21 AM PDT by Red Badger (Is it just me, or is Hillary! starting to look like Benjamin Franklin?.................)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
People (most) don't like seeing a seemingly stronger person
do a beatdown on a seemingly weaker one. The Obama might make out ok here.

This debate format was also not good for a somewhat supercilious
pseudo-intellectual person. Much better for a practiced slickster.

Next debate, “town hall” style with Candy Crowley. Could make a difference.

140 posted on 10/04/2012 8:58:41 AM PDT by procrustes (You make Free Republic look bad!)
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To: Red Badger
What sends the left over the edge is to not have an opponent that can't seem to put two words together, much less two sentences.

Conservatives have long awaited for a candidate that at least could or would give as good as he got!

That's why people loved Sarah, among many others.

141 posted on 10/04/2012 9:02:12 AM PDT by zerosix (Native sunflower)
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To: procrustes

Or not! Anyway, it will be interesting!

John Kerry was generally judged to have overwhelmed G. W. Bush in the first debate in ‘04. Also to have “won” all three debates. But what happened, happened.

Our future remains, as always, unknown!


142 posted on 10/04/2012 9:09:37 AM PDT by procrustes (You make Free Republic look bad!)
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To: TruthWillWin

“Really? They had a women’s rights advocate (Fluke) telling us how bad R’s are for women followed by a serial sexual offender (Clinton).”

AFter they KO’d the convention with a video tribute to someone that drowned a woman!


143 posted on 10/04/2012 9:47:02 AM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: arbee4bush

The elimation of deductions are offset by rate decreases. He said that several times, so I’m sure that your friend already knows the answer to their question.

Dump em!


144 posted on 10/04/2012 9:48:20 AM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: F15Eagle
They creep me out with their calendars that liken Obama to Jesus Christ - that is prophetic and it does not bode well -

Kind of like a wound from a [political] sword. Something seems off, even though there is every reason he should go down in a landslide of flames. Maybe it's a concern over the damage he would do in the last days of his regime.

Obama's canned answers reminded me a Windows help file. I never want to go there, because no matter what I type in, up comes the same spiel, full of text in an endless loop of links, but void of solutions.

That debate was a case of Deer [Leader] in the Headlights.

145 posted on 10/04/2012 9:52:24 AM PDT by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
How bad is the damage? Potentially fatal, both for obama's potential second term and, with any luck, for the progressive socialist takeover as well.

Romney showed us what American competence and class looks like, while obama showed us our lowest uncommon denominator and the contrast could not have been much more clear.

Romney did well and we finally got a little bit of the education we're desperate for.

Please, sir, may we have another!!!

146 posted on 10/04/2012 10:19:03 AM PDT by GBA (The line is drawn, two choices left: We must pull back from the line or be forced to cross it.)
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To: F15Eagle
Like Putin probably wept crocodile tears when the pro-ABM Polish president went down in the plane crash.
Putin probably knew about that plane crash ahead of time.
147 posted on 10/04/2012 11:05:41 AM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: zerosix
I watched the debate twice and saw two very different debates. The first viewing, live, found me in a public venue with a raucous and partisan crowd. I came out thinking the duel a draw.

Then I watched the replay on YouTube in the privacy of my own place and saw something very, very different, on the order of the bloodbath that wrung from Joe Klein the question of Obama's ability to communicate effectively enough to be the president.

I drew an important personal lesson about the impact of groupthink.

148 posted on 10/04/2012 12:36:45 PM PDT by Lexinom
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To: Red Badger

Well that makes you one of the 25% who think this. The other 75% think it was a total disaster for O


149 posted on 10/04/2012 12:39:46 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: Red Badger

Well that makes you one of the 25% who think this. The other 75% think it was a total disaster for O


150 posted on 10/04/2012 12:40:11 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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