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Diabetes Study Ends Early With a Surprising Result
NY Times ^ | Oct 19, 2012 | Gina Kolata

Posted on 10/20/2012 10:35:47 AM PDT by Innovative

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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
diabetics were put on 600 calorie a day diets for eight weeks.

Get back to me in a couple years. Those people will be even fatter than before. Starvation diets only work on a temporary basis. A successful diet entails a PERMANENT change in behavior.

51 posted on 10/20/2012 12:23:12 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (To bid on this tagline space: www.jeffchandlerstaglinespace.com)
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To: Gay State Conservative; Innovative

A friend of mine lost 60# and was freed of diabetes, too, and he had been on the pump.

Genetics is a powerful force in one’s health but we still have to exercise.


52 posted on 10/20/2012 12:27:42 PM PDT by Lady Jag (If you can't make them see the light, let them feel the heat. - Reagan)
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To: Signalman
A really good book that explains why low-carb is not only the best way to maintain proper weight, but also the most heart healthy diet:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat-About/dp/0307474259/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350755755&sr=1-1&keywords=gary+taubes+why+we+get+fat+and+what+to+do+about+it

I also read this book. It is excellent. The real issue is not how much we eat, but what we eat. The carbs/sugars are killing us. I began a high fat/low carb diet 6 months ago. Now I weigh what I did in college. My lipids are excellent and my allergies vanished. It works.

53 posted on 10/20/2012 12:34:29 PM PDT by Blennos
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To: Innovative

People who are overweight also live longer... I’m surprised the liberal meme was trumped by reality. Guess some scientists are still honorable.


54 posted on 10/20/2012 1:04:48 PM PDT by GOPJ
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To: bert

I think you are right. Just saw this article about type 3 diabetes(maybe) they are not sure yet.
The idea that Alzheimer’s might be Type 3 diabetes has been around since 2005, but the connection between poor diet and Alzheimer’s is becoming more convincing, as summarized in a cover story in New Scientist entitled “Food for Thought: What You Eat May Be Killing Your Brain.” (The graphic — a chocolate brain with a huge piece missing — is creepy. But for the record: chocolate is not the enemy.)

The studies [1] are increasingly persuasive, and unsurprising when you understand the role of insulin in the body. So, a brief lesson.

We all need insulin: in non-diabetics, it’s released to help cells take in the blood sugar (glucose) they need for energy. But the cells can hold only so much; excess sugar is first stored as glycogen, and — when there’s enough of that — as fat. (Blood sugar doesn’t come only from sugar, but from carbohydrates of all kinds; easily digested carbohydrates flood the bloodstream with sugar.) Insulin not only keeps the blood vessels that supply the brain healthy, it also encourages the brain’s neurons to absorb glucose, and allows those neurons to change and become stronger. Low insulin levels in the brain mean reduced brain function.


55 posted on 10/20/2012 1:16:38 PM PDT by cdpap
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To: Jeff Chandler

Importantly, this is not used as a diet, but was based on the idea that the islets of Langerhans that produced insulin were blocked by fat.

It had long been assumed that the islets were dead or had stopped producing insulin permanently. However, on this strict, acute starvation diet, once the fat was gone, the diabetes was reversed and they started producing insulin again.

And it is much harder to become morbidly obese if you have adequate supplies of insulin.

While I agree that a typical starvation diet won’t work and soon the people will regain the weight, this can now be said for two reasons: that the starvation diet wasn’t long enough, or strict enough.

That is, if they ate more than 600 calories a day, which they would typically do on a normal weight loss diet, and/or the diet just made them lose weight, not dissolve the fatty deposits blocking their Islets, their insulin levels would not increase, and so when they ate normally again, they would gain the weight back quickly.

So the scientists designed an eight week, 600 calorie a day diet as being fast enough and strict enough to do the trick.

That diabetic reversal weight loss is not just a function of eating less over an extended period of time, but that time itself is part of the equation.


56 posted on 10/20/2012 1:19:19 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Jack Lalanne died at 96. He did a lot of exercising.


57 posted on 10/20/2012 1:46:16 PM PDT by Drawsing (The fool shows his annoyance at once. The prudent man overlooks an insult. (Proverbs 12:16))
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To: Drawsing

oh I am sure that there are a few people who excercise and that are vegitarians who live long.

But the larger point is that. If those were the things that helped you live longer. The 90+ population would mostly consist of vegatarians and athletes, which just isn’t the case.


58 posted on 10/20/2012 1:52:43 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: Signalman
I have already read Why We Get Fat, and I am a great fan of Gary Taubes. I gave my copy of the book to my eldest daughter after a shopping trip that ended up in tears. She has always been a bit heavy, even as a child; but, when she read this book she felt like she understood things better and had a plan to turn things around.

She followed his advice, lost a lot of weight and now is a much happier girl.

59 posted on 10/20/2012 2:21:21 PM PDT by LibertarianLiz
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

yes, plenty of that kind of thing can occur. also the stats are real interesting about people who get the flu after getting the flu shot vs those who get the flu that didn’t.


60 posted on 10/20/2012 3:07:35 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Innovative

My mother-in-law lived into her early 80’s after a diabetes vertic in her 50’s without taking meds. She did it through diet.

She inherited the disease. She was super self disciplined and smart enough to figure out the food chemistry. I would guess not everyone is the same as her. Her body demanded insulin for a few years before she passed away.


61 posted on 10/20/2012 4:49:16 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Gay State Conservative; Innovative

Weight loss and exercise will affect the numbers, the surrogate measures of the disease, and so will the pills. However, no one has yet proved that making the numbers go in the right direction will alter the course of the disease in terms of morbidity and mortality. That would take decades, and no pharmaceutical company wants to run a study that long, so they go for results just in terms of the A1c or lower cholesterol.

The one large study done in the UK many years ago supposedly demonstrates a benefit, but it is measured in terms of reduction in relative risk which can be very deceiving. Also, they did a lot of massaging of the data to even show that small benefit.

There has not been one good study that has proved that weight loss will lengthen one’s life. People may want to lose weight (and most will not be successful in the long run) because it makes them feel better, etc. but there is no guarantee that it will make one live longer.

There is much more we don’t know about obesity and diabetes than we do know, but this deviates from Holy Writ concerning these conditions. People need to keep an open mind and see some real proof, not just in adjusting various numbers in tests, but actual benefit to the patient, before they swallow the accepted wisdom.

Recommend The Obesity Myth by Paul Campos (he is a bit of a lib and goes off on tangents at times, though) and any book by Dr. Nortin Hadler, MD. His latest on aging is excellent.
One more... Overdiagnosed by H. Gilbert Welch.


62 posted on 10/20/2012 7:42:42 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

And the numbers went down, but were they any healthier? Such a drastic diet (starvation) is very hard on the heart, but I imagine if any of these poor souls keeled over of a heart attack in the months after this regimen, the death was blamed on the diabetes.

I doubt, too, that many of them were able to keep the weight off for long. Our bodies see diets, especially ones that drastic, as starvation and become that much more efficient at putting on fat stores and keeping them in case there’s another “famine”.


63 posted on 10/20/2012 7:45:53 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: Pining_4_TX

“However, no one has yet proved that making the numbers go in the right direction will alter the course of the disease in terms of morbidity and mortality. “

Exactly. See below:

Another interesting study:

Heart failure patients with diabetes may benefit from higher glucose levels

http://www.uclahealth.org/body.cfmid=561&action=detail&ref=1880

The researchers found that for the diabetic heart failure patients, two-year event-free survival was highest among patients with the highest elevated glycosylated hemoglobin levels: a 65 percent survival rate for patients with Level 4 (greater than 8.6 percent of the marker) and a 61 percent survival rate for those with Level 3 (7.3 - 8.5 percent of the marker).


64 posted on 10/20/2012 7:49:51 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Innovative

Thanks! I also read a study that said weight gain was actually protective in type 2, because there were more cells to take up the excess circulating glucose.

You might like this site: www.junkfoodscience.blogspot.com
The lady who wrote the articles there doesn’t post any longer, but there are some great pieces on obesity, diabetes, bariatric surgery, etc.


65 posted on 10/20/2012 7:53:48 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: Pining_4_TX

Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out:

http://www.junkfoodscience.blogspot.com


66 posted on 10/20/2012 7:56:08 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Pining_4_TX

The big breakthrough was not incremental - they stopped having type 2 diabetes. Here’s a more thorough article. Note three months after they returned to a normal diet, 7 of the 11 were still diabetes free.

The dramatic part was less the diet than the understanding that it was possible to cure diabetes, which had been previously believed was irreversible.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/229606.php

As an aside, there are a lot of highly unusual diets being devised right now, such as the very high fat, low carb diet (Ketogenic diet) for some neurological conditions, like a very hard to treat epilepsy.


67 posted on 10/20/2012 8:19:30 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: Cruising For Freedom

could be that really morbidly obese people don’t move or do much of anything.....no stress on the heart...no stairs...no walks...no work.


68 posted on 10/21/2012 12:15:24 AM PDT by cherry
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To: Innovative
In my family there is a genetic component...My grandfather had it, his son, my uncle had it, by brothers daughter has it and I have 2 son's with it...My mother told me to watch my boys because as far back as she could remember it only effected the males...my niece was the first female in 4 generations to get it...one of my son's say after he lost some weight his sugar was fine....Its the one’s on insulin that will always be on insulin...if your taking pills, your pancreas produces insulin, but not enough and the pills stimulate the area of the pancreas involved to secrete more insulin
69 posted on 10/21/2012 1:58:28 AM PDT by goat granny (.)
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To: Gay State Conservative; Twinkie

don’t think this will help you but my black lab was overweight with a back end problem...she loved her chicken nuggets every time we went to a drive through....vet told me no more chicken nuggets if you want to give her a snack, feed her green beans....she went from 89 1/2 pounds to 79 1/2 pounds snacking on green beans and did it in less than 2 months.....Like I said, don’t know if this information will help or not :O)


70 posted on 10/21/2012 2:06:15 AM PDT by goat granny (.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

What they call a cure is blood glucose and insulin production being at normal levels. That means the numbers look good. It does not mean that once these people return to normal eating that the ongoing differentiation of Beta cells has stopped. Scientists used to think Beta cells died, but they discovered that they changed their function.

As they patients age, their Beta cell function will continue to deteriorate and their diabetes will return (not that it was ever really cured). As of now, there is no permanent cure for diabetes. Not only that, but all the emphasis on just getting the numbers to look normal are lulling people into a false sense of security. If dieting and they hypoglycemic drugs work so well, why does virtually ever diabetic eventually have a progression of the disease?

As I said, there is much more they don’t know about diabetes than they do know.


71 posted on 10/21/2012 8:04:41 AM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: Innovative
I have an innovative solution to my diabetes Type II.

I am flooding my body with sugars and starches, so that it finally gets over itself, gives up and stops being diabetic.

72 posted on 10/21/2012 8:10:10 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The Pravda Press has gone from 'biased' straight on through to 'utterly bizarre'.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Exercise helps one live longer in a few ways.

1. A fit person is more mobile than an unfit person, which leads to his ability to be more independent longer.

2. Exercise helps keep the blood vessels clear, which contributes to less chances of heart attacks or strokes.

3. Prevention of falls. A person who has eaten well and exercised throughout his life will have stronger bones. It is my understanding that the biggest contributor to removing a senior’s ability to live a long life is falling and breaking their hips. Most don’t recover when they’ve suffered that sort of injury.

In short, exercise may not be a big factor in being able to live to 100, but it certainly contributes to an enjoyable life up until the moment of death.


73 posted on 10/21/2012 8:10:35 AM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: goat granny

OK. I’ve got some green beans in the freezer. I don’t eat too many chicken nuggets, though. It’s Popsicles for me.


74 posted on 10/21/2012 10:11:30 AM PDT by Twinkie (PEOPLE ARE HURTING IN OBAMA'S ECONOMY . . .)
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To: Pining_4_TX

“As I said, there is much more they don’t know about diabetes than they do know.”

I absolutely agree. Unfortunately, I don’t think that doctor’s do.


75 posted on 10/21/2012 12:05:32 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Jonty30

“In short, exercise may not be a big factor in being able to live to 100, but it certainly contributes to an enjoyable life up until the moment of death.”

I can agree with this, though I don’t necessarily agree with your points 1-3.

Exercise makes you feel better, probably somewhat good for you, but it doesn’t necessarily assure a long, healthy life.

I’ve known more than one person who exercised religiously, ate healthy, and died of a heart attack in their sixties.


76 posted on 10/21/2012 12:09:31 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: bert

I’m a few months away from 70. My grandmothers cooked with schmaltz, added chicken skin cracklings to everything meat based and sour cream and butter to everything dairy based. Both were prolific bakers and used pounds of butter per week.

They were both obese even though they were born in the 19th century and gardened, cooked and baked from scratch, sewed, did their own cleaning. They did not exercise or even walk much. They both developed Type 2 and died of stroke or heart attack in their 50s/early 60’s. One smoked. The daughter of the one who dies at 60, my mother, is still alive at 95 and smoked for 20 years. My Dad was always a good weight, never exercised much after the 1950s and died of a heart attack (his 3rd) at 84. He smoked for 55 years.

My mother did not garden, did not exercise after 40 and cooked the same way as her mother, with a few years of low fat in the mix. The Depression did not mean starvation for my family. I’d say they had an overabundance of leisure expressed in weekly card games, including afternoon Canasta and Ma Johng and evening poker, parties, *functions*, movies, the occasional cruise or casino outings, winters in Arizona.

None of my sibs or surviving cousins are fat or have Type 2.
We are all 65-73 and were more active aged 30-65 than our parents. We have abundance and some have it in spades. The ones who are dead died young of specific diseases beyond lifestyle control.

I think it is just the luck of the draw.


77 posted on 10/21/2012 8:36:07 PM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: Innovative

No where in this study did they incorporate nutritional solutions such as alpha lipoic acid, berberine, resveratrol, Gymnema sylvestre, antioxident vitamins, curcumin, etc.

I believe many of the drugs previously prescribed for other ailments add to the rise of diabetes in people because of their depleting action of essential nutrients. And.. I also believe that the cause of those other ailments was because our bodies have been deprived of necessary nutrients for much of our lives.

The more I study and experiment with my own ailments, the more convinced that I’m on the right track.


78 posted on 10/22/2012 10:51:25 AM PDT by upsdriver
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To: Innovative

Found a treasure trove of info here!

http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/articles-evidence/

I haven’t had time to even begin to wade through all of it.


79 posted on 10/25/2012 9:39:23 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: Pining_4_TX

Thanks for the link. I’ll save it and check it out.


80 posted on 10/26/2012 8:19:04 AM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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