You say that like it's a bad thing.
The pain you feel today is the strength you'll have tomorrow.
Posted on 10/29/2012 7:41:14 PM PDT by billflax
Christians frightened for America’s future face a conundrum this electoral season. Biblical precepts must steer our politics; loving God with all our hearts, souls and minds obviously includes discernment at the polls. “When you enter the voting booth,” says R.C. Sproul, “don’t leave your Christianity in the parking lot.”
How should Christians vote their beliefs?
Only God knows either candidate’s heart, but Mitt Romney professes Mormonism. Culturally, Mormons make for great neighbors and business partners. Many behave better than most Christians, but faith is more than mere morals. When Latter-day Saints talk of Christ they conceive of a created being.
Barack Obama has articulated an Oprah-like ecumenical Christianity with “many paths to the same place.” Liberation Theology, which his former church preaches, superimposes spiritual vocabulary to Marxist thinking. Properly understood, Marxism reflects a complete rejection of Christianity.
So do Democrats apparently.
(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...
There is every appearance the poster of seven posts thus far, has an obsession.
Your replies were on target.
Alas, FRiend... They run to their prophets with itching ears... Thanks for standing when it is hard to stand.
Then go ahead and vote for O if his ‘Christianity’ is so enticing
I, as a Catholic Christian, will take the “cult” over Communism.
Name a single president who has lived up to your definition of Christianity. I get so tired of this...Ford was divorced and drank. Reagan was divorced. The Bushes are certainly not part of any conservative church.
Our elected officials are human. We are not voting in our church officials. There are those who will never vote for a Roman Catholic for they think that religion is completely of Satan.
the arguments get ridiculous. I would rather have a Penn Gillett in my corner than a Barack Obama or Bill Ayers
I am voting for president. There is a committed marxist who has (at a minimum) muslim leanings in the WH. I know what a second tem of O looks like. I find it in my self interest and the interest of my country (and my faith) to make sure that O does NOT have a second term.
I do not need a lecture from anyone
That video reduces the Christian’s voting criteria to three principles, life, marriage, and freedom. And it is true that the right to life is not negotiable, that marriage should not be redefined, and that freedom is essential to our success as a people and our prosperity as individuals.
But freedom is not simply a path to prosperity. Freedom is essential to the life of a Christian nation because we must be free to serve God, to worship him according to the dictates of Scripture and conscience. Freedom is not something we as Christians are permitted to waste on merely ourselves. From the founding those who came here for religious freedom did not do so because of jobs or economy or some vague notion of a pluralistic utopia of religious diversity. They came here because their oppressors in England were interfering with their duty to serve and honor God. This sense of duty was strong enough to push them to forsake their homeland, risking everything, even death, in pursuit of the high calling of Christian freedom.
Is that the same kind of freedom portrayed in that video? The music and the images were stirring, but it breaks my heart to see the meaning and use of freedom so diminished that we would ever consider a rejector of the true God, a competitor to the true God, a purveyor of a false Gospel, a teacher of antichrist doctrine, the new champion of Christian freedom.
Are we mere materialists after all? When Christians vote, should we reject the Holy Spirit’s written guidance to have nothing to do with such false teachers, just so we can have a better life in this world? How is that not like Esau trading his birthright for a bowl of venison stew?
Our birthright, as Americans, is to live as a free people, empowered by God to serve the true and living God according to the best light we have. If we abuse our freedom, use it to protect our own interests over God’s honor, why should we expect God’s help in maintaining that freedom? Esau thought he was going to die if he didn’t get that meal. And for his choice, what did he get at the end? God set His blessing on another. It would never return to Esau, no matter how he wept over his mistake.
Peace,
SR
Thanks
I don’t think that Christians, in general, believe they’re voting for pastor. However, I imagine that everyone has ethical/moral standards they check off in their minds regarding the candidates in any race, given that they know them. For Christians those would be classic Judeo-Christian standards.
However, there are non-negotiables, such as believing in the sacredness of life.
I will not, on the other hand, vote in a satanist, ba’alist, islamic, hindu, etc. I just wouldn’t. I would know instantly that their ethical/moral standards were automatically totally foreign to my own.
Good one
My post was mostly meant to be humorous. You know, laughter, provide a little chuckle. It’s something you should try at least once before you die.
Daniel and others functioned well while holding onto their faith in the true God without adopting the many gods of Babylon and Persia
Evangelicals, Protestants, and Roman Catholics can take up their great theological differences with the LDS on November 7...
Well, indeed there were some horrific examples of so-called "Christians" in office...I can think of, for example...
...Warren Harding (Baptist)
...Stephen Grover Cleveland (Presbyterian)
But, to answer your challenge: Teddy Roosevelt in the early 1900s wasn't perfect by any means; but he embraced many standards...and fleshed many of them out well...Teddy R. was the first POTUS to invite a non-caucasian (Booker T. Washington) in to dine in the White House a half-century away from reformers like Martin Luther King...
(He was a Calvinist)
So you say...
The compromisers will think politically and realize that the campaign of Romney vs. Democrat for 2016 will begin Jan 2015...and they'll figure out, "Since we'll defend Mormonism 2015-2016, might as well continue in between now & then."
(Yeah, I'm sure if you were able to ask those aborted that Romney has favored to be "up" for abortion, they'd say, "Yeah, he's a 'centrist' toward keeping my body intact alright.")
(Ya know, only 15-20% of Lds are temple Lds...which means the huge majority of Mormons don't expect godhood status...but Mitt's a temple Mormon...I just didn't realize -- until you informed us here -- that had McCain or Sarah Palin announced in 2008 that they were "gods in embryo," that would have been perceived all across America as "centrist" and wouldn't have 'shied away' a single vote)...
Don't forget from our history: John Adams, Unitarian--Thomas Jefferson, Deist who denied plenary inspiration of the Bible--Benjamin Franklin, Rosicrucian
And Teddy Roosevelt was a class one progressive....geez...and you use inviting Washington to the WH as evidence of what???
I notice you didn’t mention the ever favorite Carter as an example of a horrific example (and yet should have)
Indeed, John Adams had strong unitarian beliefs...to most voters at the time, tho, they would have deemed him as "Congregational" [one of the strongest Christian churches in Pasadena, CA -- to this day -- is Lake Avenue Congregational Church]...Adams was Congregational growing up and was the lone church he was associated with as an adult...
My point here is that most voters would not have been aware of his Unitarian beliefs for them to evaluate him as such.
Romney, by contrast, in an Internet world, has no such "luxury" for hiding his Lds beliefs...tho there's plenty of compromisers on FR and elsewhere -- including the Billy Graham Evangelistic Asso Web site...that are doing their darndest to tuck those beliefs away and out of eyesight!
I went to this Web site -- http://rosicrucian.50webs.com/various/scribe-benjamin-franklins-rosicrucian-affiliations.htm...
Says there that the FORMER Rosicrucians that Franklin was associated with were fellow Freemasons of Franklin's...
That site says quite specifically that "those particular Freemasons [that Franklin was a part of] "were formerly of a group of Rosicrucians in England that divided, some becoming Freemasons and the others keeping the old terminology of Rosicrucianism."
Bottom line: The Rosicrucians & open Rosicrucianism here were "in England" -- not in the U.S. (Franklin wasn't in England)
Now it's apparently true then some of the Freemasons Franklin hung around with likely practiced Rosicrucian-laced Freemasonry...but that didn't make Franklin a devout Rosicrucian...
Per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(United_States,_1912)...
Here was the social sphere platform for Teddy Roosevelt's Progressive Party:
*A National Health Service to include all existing government medical agencies.
* Social insurance, to provide for the elderly, the unemployed, and the disabled
* Limited injunctions in strikes
* A minimum wage law for women
* An eight hour workday
* A federal securities commission
* Farm relief
* Workers' compensation for work-related injuries
* An inheritance tax
* A Constitutional amendment to allow a Federal income tax
The political reforms proposed included
Women's suffrage
Direct election of Senators
Primary elections for state and federal nominations
The platform also urged states to adopt measures for "direct democracy", including:
The recall election (citizens may remove an elected official before the end of his term)
The referendum (citizens may decide on a law by popular vote)
The initiative (citizens may propose a law by petition and enact it by popular vote)
Judicial recall (when a court declares a law unconstitutional, the citizens may override that ruling by popular vote)
However, the main theme of the platform was an attack on the domination of politics by business interests, which allegedly controlled both established parties. The platform asserted that
To destroy this invisible Government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day
To that end, the platform called for
Strict limits and disclosure requirements on political campaign contributions
Registration of lobbyists
Recording and publication of Congressional committee proceedings
Yup...women voting in 1912 was indeed "progressive..."
Or perhaps you objected to an 8-hour workday...registration of lobbyists...strict limits & disclosure requirements for political campaign contributions...access for voter referenda...and judicial recalls...etc...
Obviously, the fed income tax has been abused...but somebody who supports RomneyCare -- and what Massachusetts has furthered expanded with that abortion-wise -- shouldn't be hurling stones at what the govt does with precedent-setting open doors...
Well, Bill, while Socialism/Marxism is counter Christianity, so is classical Mormonism...so your ignorance slip is showing.
How is classical Mormonism a "complete rejection of Christianity?"
Just go to the Lds "scriptures"...Pearl of Great Price...
In there, you'll find the section "Joseph Smith - History" -- which includes the supposed founding vision of Joseph Smith.
Look at verses 18-20...In those very verses...the Mormon gods tell Smith that...
* 100% of Christian sect creeds are an "abomination" to them...("all" means ALL!)
* 100% of Christian sect professing believers are "corrupt" ("all" means ALL!)
Elsewhere, Mormonism has taught that ALL Christian sects are "apostate" -- as in 100% of them -- and that Mormonism alone is the "restoration."
That is called, Bill, a "scorched earth" religious posture...where Smith attempted to build a gigantic spiritual graveyard for worldwide Christianity...and toss it in ... as he declared it dead...
His very first "revelation" in Doctrine & Covenants (1:30) declares the Mormon church to be "the only true and living church on the face of the earth"...meaning EVERY Christian church is false and dead.
That, Bill, is a "complete rejection of Christianity..."
And the compromisers on this site are "silly" not to take classical Mormonism at face value...for these are Lds "scriptures"...not just some sermonic opinionated reference from a Mormon tabernacle...
Bless you for posting sense in a thread soiled by a mouth-foamer.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
The pain you feel today is the strength you'll have tomorrow.
Not at all
You blythely skip over the most socialist of his policies...he was big government all the way. And the things you site as important make me question your understanding of free market conservatism
I will not be voting for Romney for a variety of reasons, but I can afford to be noble--I live in CA, which is unwinnable
We will not have the Kingdom of God until the King returns.
Having said that, America is the greatest expression in history of how a predominantly Christian or Judeo-Christian based society can flourish and be a blessing to the world, providing more freedom for more people in more ways than any other example--God bless may God bless America...
Correction. I just looked up our Illinois write in list and Virgil Goode is on it:
President and Vice President of the United States
Paul Chehade & Steve Mc Allister
Stephen Durham & Christina Lopez
Virgil Goode & Jim Clymer
Tom Hoefling & Jonathan D. Ellis
Jill Reed & Tom Cary
Jerry White & Phyllis Scherrer
President of the United States
Ross C. “Rocky” Anderson
Richard Duncan
Michael W. Hawkins
Nelson Lee Keyton, Jr.
Dennis Knill
Barbara A. Prokopich
Cecil James Roth
Beverly Simmons-Miller
James T. Struck
Mary Ann Tomkins Segal
Roy Wayne Tyree
I have no idea who most of these people are, but among the names I recognize, I will be glad to give my vote to Virgil Goode, and recommend him to my family. The duty to teach one’s children how to make principled choices never goes away, no matter how old they are.
Peace,
SR
The Mormon part doesn’t bother me in the least.
If Romney made Mormonism the state religion, I could accept that WAY more than if Obama made Islam the state religion. Good Lord...no contest.
Excellent!
Btw, for those who don't know, Tom Hoefling is a FREEPER...and also worthy of voting for...so if Goode is NOT on your ballot for POTUS, but Hoefling is, vote for him...or vote for Tom instead of Virgil...
Excellent!
No left coast conservative has the excuse for voting for a liberal pro-abort socialist healthcare "I'm a god" Mythster...There's NO WAY the Mythster can take ANY left coast state...Washington, Hawaii, CA, or Oregon.
For those who claim a vote for Virgil Goode or Tom Hoefling is a "wasted vote," let them preach the same sermon to the Left Coasters...only this one is: A vote for the Mythster is a wasted vote (electorally).
(Oh, I'm sure for a lot of American pagans 'tis easier to accept Mormonism's polytheism of "I'm a god, you're a god" than Islam's bare monotheism!)
..but I want him to beat Obama, to be clear. 4 more years of Obama—no USA
#1...Please regale us with tall tales of the "free market conservative" principles behind RomneyCare, oh lecturer...
#2...Which of those things I listed are on any "opposition list" of current free market conservative Web sites...BE specific, please...
So, you admire Islam’s bare monotheism?
Numbnut ideologue placemarker.
Possibly 2 yrs of Obama-no USA...or 3...or 8 yrs of ANY Dem...no USA...Or possibly, one month of Romney, no USA...
After all, one of the key judgments against Israel by God was the kings giving credence to false worship centers...and fostering idolatry among the Israelites. (Hence, He gave up them in exile to Babylon)
Romney IS a "god in embryo" -- per official Mormonism -- ... and those who endorse/sanction rival competing gods to THE God are elevating idolatry in this nation...Do you think THE God will be thrilled by His people...without qualifications...openly sanctioning Mormon idolatry???
Well, a LOT of Old Testament Jews embraced what they thought was bare monotheism...and I think that bridge was easier to cross for Messianic Jews than the pagan polytheistic road...
We worship that same Old Testament God -- the God of Isaac, Jacob, and Abraham; by comparison, the Mormon god is a distinctly DIFFERENT "god" than the God of the Bible...
The Mormon "god" is not THE Ultimate God; he was NEVER "divine" from eternity past; he was a man who got the "god job" -- appointed by a "council of gods."
I’ll take a polytheistic Hindoo or a polygamous Mormon over a maniacal sword-waving monotheistic servant of Allah any day of the week.
All seven.
“*A National Health Service to include all existing government medical agencies.
* Social insurance, to provide for the elderly, the unemployed, and the disabled
* Limited injunctions in strikes
* A minimum wage law for women
* An eight hour workday
* A federal securities commission
* Farm relief
* Workers’ compensation for work-related injuries
* An inheritance tax
* A Constitutional amendment to allow a Federal income tax”
Not a free market idea in the list.
And I am NO supporter of govt sponsored health care in ANY FORM...that includes medicare
..that is just foolish
You destroy the points you make with the axe you have been grinding
Pray for the nation, whatever happens...
I’m amazed that anyone can call himself a Christian and vote Democrat.
Look up Virgil’s principled choices about gay porno films..
OK, I did look it up, as far as I was able, and so far, what I have is a conflicting set of testimonies. See this:
http://www.zimbio.com/Virgil+Goode/articles/3/Virgil+Goode+Denies+Involvement+Eden+Curve
The money in question, $150,000, was given to restore a theater in Danville, VA. It’s not clear from the article just how the money is related to the theater’s artistic director making a gay film. It is conceivable that Goode’s story is exactly true, that he had no specific knowledge of the film. It is further possible that if he knew said earmark money might in any way facilitate the making of such a film, he would have rejected it.
He is named in the credits, as a benefactor. That does not prove he knew anything about the film. It only proves that someone considered him a benefactor, which he might have been, but without realizing the nature of the film.
But how, you say, could his press secretary be involved in the film directly and he not know about the substance of the film? Good and reasonable question. I don’t know. But incriminating evidence would require something better than “I don’t know.” For example, no one questions Jerry Falwell’s commitment to the traditional Christian view of sexuality and marriage, yet he had a close aide and speech writer, Mel White, who turned out to be gay, after posing for years as a traditionalist. I knew Jerry personally. He was not an easy man to fool. Yet it happened.
So while I am distressed to learn of this connection, as an attorney, trained BTW at Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University, all I have is competing and conflicting testimony, without an ability to cross-examine any of the principals. Without a clear basis for concluding that Goode is deliberately lying, I am forced to suspend judgment. Applying the Golden Rule, if I were in a similar situation (and I have been), I would want to be believed, unless there were clear evidence I was lying, and therefore I choose to believe Goode’s testimony until further evidence is submitted.
And if you have any further evidence, I am open to hearing it. I hold no one above justifiable criticism. It’s just that because I have personally experienced the ravages of malicious innuendo and defamation, while knowing I was perfectly innocent, I am particularly sensitive to judging the character of others in the absence of clear and convincing evidence. It is a grave moral evil, and is specifically forbidden in the command to not bear false witness against one’s neighbor, and I will not support a candidate who uses such techniques to elevate themselves over their opponents.
Good to hear from you again.
Peace,
SR
(No more "FOOLISH" THAN your outlandish conjecture that the USA would be "no more" with 4 more years of Obama...
If God helped to build this nation, it would go beyond one mortal to destroy it.
So YOU are the one who launched into the prophet-like conjecture of 4 yrs and 'twould be it...Frankly, any outlandish conjecture along these lines is as good as any other similar one...
AGainst big government???? You bet. Against unions and the damage they do??? You bet. Since when is an 8 hour work day considered to be the preferable work day? Farmers, health care workers, people who run their own businesses ALL work longer than eight hours a day. I don’t want a national park system. I don’t like the Fed or the 16th amendment. There is NOTHING in the Bullmoose agenda that is even close to interesting.
Thanks for your reply, SR.
You’re a bit more charitable than I think warrants - between did know and should have known, I think Virgil has some ‘splainin’ to do. :)
For those who wonder what we’re taking about, here’s the trailer for the film (which lists Virgil Goode as benefactor) that was made with a $150,000 earmark from the federal budget due to Goode’s efforts and acted in by his press secretary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0800IhLt1Y
I’m sorry, my previous post had a error in fact; the film was *not* financed/made made with the $150,000 earmark.
God doesn’t care about who wins this election. He Himself chooses leaders. We are fooling ourselves into thinking our vote even really matters. See the scripture...
“Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.”
~1 Peter 2:13-14
“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.”
~1 Peter 2:18
“Then Jesus said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him”
~Mark 12:17
...basically it doesn’t matter who God puts into power. We need to tolerate, pray for and obey our leaders as an act of obedience to God. Everyone on this forum would be smart to remember that!
“(He was a Calvinist)
You say that like it’s a bad thing. “
Apparently knowing scripture is a bad thing... ;)
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