Skip to comments.Will White House be forced to respond to Texas secession petition?
Posted on 11/13/2012 11:37:37 AM PST by SeekAndFind
The more than 25,000 Sunshine Patriots who signed the petition to have Texas secede from the United States might get a response from the White House.
Looks like the Obama administration may have to respond to a petition seeking the green light for Texas to secede from the United States-one of 20 such requests filed on the official White House website since Election Day. At the time of the writing of this post, the Texas secession petition had garnered 25,318 signatures-above the White House's self-imposed rules for requiring a reply.
(A "Recount the election!" petition filed Nov. 10 had 16,238 signatures. "Regulate Internet Pornography"? Not a big winner. It was filed Nov. 4 and had only 501 signatures.)
The White House may opt out of replying. Under its own rules, "To avoid the appearance of improper influence, the White House may decline to address certain procurement, law enforcement, adjudicatory, or similar matters properly within the jurisdiction of federal departments or agencies, federal courts, or state and local government in its response to a petition." Other secession petitions include requests for Arkansas, South Carolina, Georgia, Missouri, Tennessee, Michigan, Colorado, Oregon, New Jersey, North Dakota, Montana, Indiana, Mississippi, Kentucky, North Carolina, Alabama and New York. (Spoiler alert: No, the White House won't approve secession.)
No, the White House won't approve secession. And yes, the signers are indeed sunshine patriots. To cut and run when things look bleak perfectly fits the description of Tom Paine, who wrote of them, ..."the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country..." "Shrink" is what these so-called Americans are doing. Giving up. Surrendering. Is there any other way to describe their cowardice?
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
I think you underestimate the gullibility of the average Obama voter or blue state dufus.
Characterize it as “putting down a rebellion”, and Obama voters will lap it up. Especially if you say it is a “racist” rebellion ... maybe equate it with the Confederacy, or a “militia”, or some white supremacist movement.
I’ve seen some really vicious stuff from the left lately. Genuine seething hatred for conservatives, Republicans, etc. I don’t think it’d take much of a push to convince them that an armed insurrection in Texas must be met with force.
Sure but who’d do the shooting? Most Obama voters don’t know a butt from a barrel—except gangbangers, and what what kind of disciplined militia would they be?
The Southern Confederacy next invaded Manassas (21 July 1861) forty miles west of Washington. (1st. battle of Bull Run) - therefore the South was the agressor in that it invaded the North,it became a war between the states; The Union vs The Confederacy who wanted to secede from the Union.
So I suggest you call the war the proper name "The War Of Secession". Or maybe to reverse the South's name - the Union called it "The War Of Southern Rebellion" or in your term "The war Of Southern Agression".
Of course not. If there's one thing we've come to expect over the last 4 years, it's that the Obama regime has no respect whatsoever for any law, except their own.
What if Texans withheld federal income tax? What could the feds do?
Would Texas lose vital government services? /snort
Walter Williams on the subject:
Basically, Lincoln decided the issue of secession by killing some 600,000 americans. Then there’s this from Williams article,
Americans celebrate Abraham Lincolns Gettysburg Address, but H.L. Mencken correctly evaluated the speech, It is poetry not logic; beauty, not sense. Lincoln said that the soldiers sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination government of the people, by the people, for the people should not perish from the earth. Mencken says: It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of people to govern themselves.
1. Who cares about the “world stage.” We’re supposed to be a republic, not an empire.
2. “How much power do you expect the break-away nation to have, with 50 million in it? It will have no military, no Navy, no Airforce, no standing army...” Without the red staes, there’d be no military. And 50 million people is still a respectable population. It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog. The military histories of Israel and Vietnam, for example, prove this adage to be true.
3. “In 1964 Goldwater was trounced in all but one state. Conservatism was not defeated. In 1972 the Republican party won a massive victory.” Different demographic back then.
4. “This Benghazi/Petraeus scandal is going to come very close to taking him down.”
Libs said that about Iran-Contra. Our guys said that about Monica-gate. Both Presidents stayed on.
In 1964 the population of the US was 88.2% European ancestry and the "war on poverty" that gave us a welfare society had not yet begun. The world has changed a bit since then.
Is it a scream if you never open your mouth???
I am seeing lots of petitions, and receiving requests to sign lots of petitions. Are the petitions going to change things? In and of themselves, probably not. However, and this is where they have merit -— they are the rumblings of an angry electorate that normally sits quietly on the sidelines, and that is powerful.
The folks on the left are the protestors, the petitioners, the screamers by and large -— they have made themselves heard over and over, and have pushed their way throughout our governmental systems at every level. All the while, the conservatives have muttered to themselves and puttered along under the increasingly heavy burdens of government.
That is why the TEA Party was so surprising and so successful, all things considered -— quiet, peaceful, conservative Americans were finally angry enough to take to the streets. People who had taken little notice of politics were suddenly shocked into the realization that “while they were sleeping” things had gone far, far awry. With little or no political experience and no established “party” network, these loose bands of Patriots set about to correct the course of the nation. It has been and will be a long, grueling uphill battle.
Angry and determined conservatives are NOT “sunshine patriots” or “shrinking from the service of [our] country” -— they [we] are honest, decent, law abiding people that are looking for avenues to get their voices heard within a system structured to ignore them. Heaven forbid that they are unable to find the path they seek and are forced, as a last resort, to conflict.
Here is a possible 'hypothetical" scenario.
1. Obama attempts through Executive Order to outlaw guns. Part of that Order requires the immediate confiscation of all privately owned guns. Failure to comply will result in arrest, jail and fines.
2. Patriots, citing the 2nd Amendment refuse to surrender their weapons.
3. Local police attempting to confiscate weapons are fired upon. Police are killed.
4. Obama declares national emergency. Calls out national guard.
5. Locals form militias and began guerrilla tactics against police and national guard. Police and national guards are killed by the thousands.
6. White House surrounds itself with massive military presence to avoid Obama being attacked.
7. Obama calls for UN reinforcements as he cowers in White House. Meanwhile, local militia continue killing police and military in guerrilla fashion. They cannot be stopped.
Anyway, it might happen that way. You never know.
“...How much power do you expect the break-away nation to have, with 50 million in it?...”
Texas has the ports, the industries, the agriculture, the resources (oil & gas), and the manpower to go it alone quite well as compared to say, Massachusetts. It has more going for than most other nations in the world just by it’s sheer size & resources. IF joined together with other energy-producing areas such as what is now presently known as Louisiana and Oklahoma, the formation would produce an independent oil and gas energy conglomerate that would probably thrive quite well, thank you, given the energy needs of the world.
Further, he cares as much about this petition as he does about whether I vote for him or not. The inner cities have his back.
RE: What if Texans withheld federal income tax? What could the feds do?
Would Texas lose vital government services? /snort
If Texans are willing to tell the Feds to go take a hike and say: “We keep our money and take care of ourselves and you keep yours”, then I’ll believe them but not until.
Edit to add: What sort of currency will Texas be using to trade products with?
The Texan Dollar?
A bunch of White Hut staffers will read the petition (as they shall all the other similar petitions), laugh, and simply ignore it.
This is just the opening round.
Very soon, a number of very good, highly competent military officers of field and flag grades will soon be at loose ends, having undergone “retirements” that were only partly voluntary. The governors of the various states, should be calling up these “retired” officers, and offer them commissions with the various state National Guard units. It would be good to have these officers on staff when (not if) the calls for secession become more serious, and it looks like the doctrine concerning Posse Comitatus is about to be tipped on its head.
Civil War II? H*ll, ain’t gonna be anything “civil” about it. Sherman’s March to the Sea is going to look like a kid’s prank.
Texas has 3 million on Medicare and 4.5 million on Medicaid.
“Meanwhile 25,000 plus people just had their names added to the enemies list.”
BINGO! I said that yesterday, on another thread.
Here is what some are suggesting:
That’s an idiotic petition. That’s like putting out a petition declaring that the Moon is made of cheese. Pointless.
Sure. Just fix it to a commodity.
What would the feds do? Invade? Capture the State House? Then what would they do? They still couldn’t collect any revenue.
Now imagine a national taxpayer revolt. It isn’t hard to do...
“This Benghazi/Petraeus scandal is going to come very close to taking him down.”
How does it go? Close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes.
“Calling the[m] sunshine patriots is like calling the Founders secessionist traitors to England who should have worked within the system.
Agreed. The system has been corrupted by uncontrolled immigration and voters voting themselves money. The petition is an acknowledgement that Texas has nothing culturally or politically in common with NY & California.
The truth is that this election has started the country, perhaps irrevocably, down the path of reformation. Rhetoric aside, the future will be increasing confrontation between the states and the federal government. The visible aspect will be the mounting confrontation in court. They have already begun. Just look at the number of open cases involving Texas and the FEDS. The less visible will involve state vs federal agencies, including increasingly in the law enforcement arena.
As the economic situation deteriorates, states with sound economies will develop regional economic partnerships with like minded boardering states. The banking system will be pressured by state actions to circumvent the flow of capital to the Feds. Energy rich areas will clamp down and use their abundance as leverage against the Feds. The rust belt will collapse and the east and west coasts will become frantic over their huge debts and lack of capital.
At some point there will be a showdown between a federal law enforcement agency and a state law enforcement agency. This will be the spark that ignites, God knows what.
History and the personalities of the current power players indicate this course is almost inevitable. It will take a major event to prevent it.
The building blocks are already in place for a major confrontation between the heartland and the east/west coast.
Michael Barone wrote an excellent article for NRO last week (which I posted here) about “Two Americas” and how there’s little or no common cultural or political ground between them. Sad, but your average resident of TX, OK, WY or IN has liitle in common with the average resident of CA, MA, NY, or NJ. This illustrates just how fragile national cohesiveness really is.
“To cut and run when things look bleak perfectly fits the description of Tom Paine”
Didn’t he want to cut and run from the British empire? After what, a measly 150 of settlement in the New World? Texas has been messed with since the 1860s, and Washington hasn’t had constitutional government for at least 75 years. How long before Texans can be patriots like the extremist nuts who revolted in 1776?
Look, I understand making fun of seccessionists. It’s easy. But the presumption of speaking for the revolutionaries, especially when they started a war over much, much less, is astounding. The author if thus article without sounds like a Tory.
I believe the answer centers around Petraeus, and the need for his resignation to be held off until after the election.
Something huge is going on here. We have the current and former commanders of Afghanistan operations being taken down.
One woman is at the center of it all.
What were her real motivations? How does Benghazi figure in? Was there a rogue FBI agent, or ring involved?
Why was her home searched earlier today?
Obama’s team keeping this quiet, raises all sorts of questions. This is far from being seen as the blow-out it will turn into being IMO.
Didn't you forget the sarcasm (/s) symbol...?
Oh come on. Why would anyone respond to 25,000 signatures out of 26,000,000 Texans? We’re not seceding.
I hope you’re right.
All the term “civil war” means is a war between citizens of the same country, as opposed to a foreign war which is between members of two or more countries. Now, you can take the South’s position that it ceased to be a part of the US once it said so, and therefore it was a foreign country. But by no means does the term imply the South was fighting for control of the US federal government. The American Revolutionary War, for instance, was a civil war in which the sides were fighting for the independence or dependence of the American colonies from the British empire.
Frankly, so do I. Something doesn’t smell right here. On face value, this doesn’t seem to make sense.
“This time the states will be on the right side of the moral issues”
What issue would that have been? Do you mean the “peculiar institution” that Lincoln proposed strengthening, lest the dearer principle of taxation founder?
“Here is a possible ‘hypothetical” scenario.
1. Obama attempts through Executive Order to outlaw guns. Part of that Order requires the immediate confiscation of all privately owned guns. Failure to comply will result in arrest, jail and fines...
Anyway, it might happen that way. You never know.”
Somebody already wrote a book along those lines. I can’t recall its name but it was some kind of collection of “diaries” written by a guy named Earl “Turner”, I think.
I heard that it’s freely downloadable in pdf format on the web, if you search for it.
Your argument would hold more water had there not been actual articles of confederation. The United States operated under the articles of confederation between 1781 and 1789. However, the founders purposefully gave us a constitution that shifted the political power from the states which held almost all the power, to a more balanced approach where states were sovereign but beholden to each other under more powerful central government. We became at that time, a nation, not a confederation of nations.
RE: Texas has 3 million on Medicare and 4.5 million on Medicaid.
Nearly one in Three in some form of Federal assistance huh?
Secession ain’t gonna happen. It would have been easier to do that before the time of FDR. Not anymore.
similarities between obama and hitler:
Both Hitler and Obama held rallies in outdoor stadiums to excite and inflame the people’s passions. Frequently women would faint or break into tears.
Hitler and Obama wrote ghost-written autobiographies prior to the start
of theri run for political office. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf (My
Struggle), and Obama wrote Dreams Of My Father. Both men then wrote a
second book talking about their goals for Germany and America. Hitler wrote A New World Order, and Obama wrote The Audacity of Hope.
Both Hitler and Obama originally had last names that were changed later in life. Hitler used to be Schickelbruber, and Obama’s last name was Soetoro.
Both Hitler and Obama hid their real identities. Hitler had a Jewish ancestry, and Obama - a Muslim one. But unlike Hitler, Obama flaunted
his Muslim roots in his start as a politician in order to defuse the
inevitable firestorm. His ploy of “hiding in plain sight” worked very
Both Hitler and Obama’s supporters followed them blindly, and without question
Both Hitler and
Obama used political power and coercion to conceal and hide their birth
certificates from coming to public view. Hitler made his disappear, and
Obama is unwilling and unable to produce his long-form birth certificate.
Hitler and Obama advocate using young people as a driving force to
create an “army” of youth dedicated to their Ideals. Hitler had his Hitler Youth, and Obama his Obama Youth Brigade.
Both Hitler and Obama were known for their tremendous oratorical skills
Both Hitler and Obama received Messianic comparisons, and both men had songs of adoration written about them and for them.
Like Hitler, Obama rules in direct disregard to the will and wishes of the people.
Like Hitler, Obama has an obvious distaste for the Jews, and sides with the Muslims every chance he gets.
Both Hitler and Obama were able to mezmerize the people even when it was obvious that what they were saying was not true.
Both Hitler and
Obama used domestic terrorists to launch their careers. Hitler had his
Brown Shirts from his beer hall days, and Obama had people like Bill Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, and Rashid Khalidi.
Like Hitler, Obama advocates using murder as a means of population control.
As far as many others and myself are concerned, he already is.
Well put. I suppose he thinks it was “sunshine mariners” who left the Titanic.
Texas Military Forces
You are aware that the court has reversed itself on several occasions. I say go for it and let Obozo take it to the Suprmemes.
I think the CW has already started. It’s just in the cold stages right now.
It’s just a matter of time before the lead starts to fly.
I hope you are correct but I fear that the Repubicans don't have the stones to do anything.
It will definitely be “go time” when the consequences of the fiscal cliff come to pass and the gov’t freebies can no longer be fulfilled.
wait the minute, New Jersey and New York wants to secede? And Oregon? Sorry, the 'Free REPUBLIC STATES of America' does NOT any blue states. We need to show the blue states that FREEDOM does work...
You left out the step where the police shoot a bunch of dogs.
Thanks for the link Thackney. I appreciate the thought behind it. IMO, this amounts to nothing more than falling in upon ourselves. Our enemies would love nothing more.
Freedom does work.
And that’s why the left won’t ever let an example of it exist.