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Spielberg's Lincoln Movie
Personal writing | November 16, 2012 | Garland Favorito

Posted on 11/16/2012 7:27:33 AM PST by BobNative

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1 posted on 11/16/2012 7:27:34 AM PST by BobNative
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To: BobNative

Presidents from Illinois seem to suck.


2 posted on 11/16/2012 7:31:19 AM PST by jospehm20
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To: jospehm20

Including Reagan?


3 posted on 11/16/2012 7:41:03 AM PST by CrazyIvan (Obama's birth certificate was found stapled to Soros's receipt.)
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To: BobNative

Lincoln worship annoys me to no end!

the man was a monster who deserved far worse than he got.


4 posted on 11/16/2012 7:45:03 AM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: CrazyIvan
Including Reagan?
You mean the one who raised taxes a few times AND signed an Amnesty bill?
5 posted on 11/16/2012 7:48:58 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: BobNative

Just about every word except “and” and “the” in this so-called “review” is false, bad history, bad interpretation of historical facts, and otherwise bogus.


6 posted on 11/16/2012 7:53:12 AM PST by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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To: BobNative
"The script also tends to deceive the audience into believing that slavery was the major cause of the war"

I'm sorry, but anyone that cannot recognize that slavery was the only reason for the civil war is simply deluding themselves.

Yes, yes, state's rights, industrial tarriffs, property rights, the 10th amandment, etc etc; but every single arguement resolved down to slavery and the economics built upon it.

It was only the war that ended the evil of slavery and it was Linclon that made certain that slavery was ended.

Thank God for Abraham Lincoln.

7 posted on 11/16/2012 7:54:04 AM PST by Pietro
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To: BobNative

Regarding “causes of the war”, there was plenty of hypocrisy on both sides. Slavery was certainly a major factor as stated in a number of the sothern states own declarations.

Moreover, there was political support in the south to forcibly annex places like Cuba in odrer to get more pro-slavery senators. Forcible annexation and allowance of secession seem to be mutually exclusive to me.

That said, I believe that the individual states retained enough sovereignty to secede, regardless of the consistency or value of their underlying reasons. This should have been addressed in the original Constitution.


8 posted on 11/16/2012 7:54:13 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: oh8eleven

True. I’d still trade Bammy for him in a hearbeat.


9 posted on 11/16/2012 7:56:29 AM PST by CrazyIvan (Obama's birth certificate was found stapled to Soros's receipt.)
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To: BobNative

Disingenuous.
South Carolinas proclamation of secession clearly stated the reason to be the constitutional right to slavery. Article IV. And specifically the Northern states disinclination to enforce it.
The South ultimately fought because of slavery, and that alone.
Anything else is spinning afterwards.
Why the North fought is another matter.


10 posted on 11/16/2012 7:56:36 AM PST by buwaya
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To: BobNative

Disingenuous.
South Carolinas proclamation of secession clearly stated the reason to be the constitutional right to slavery. Article IV. And specifically the Northern states disinclination to enforce it.
The South ultimately fought because of slavery, and that alone.
Anything else is spinning afterwards.
Why the North fought is another matter.


11 posted on 11/16/2012 7:56:41 AM PST by buwaya
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To: TexasFreeper2009; windcliff; stylecouncilor

I’m torn by what I believe was good in Lincoln, and my admiration for the Southern spirit of independence.


12 posted on 11/16/2012 7:59:18 AM PST by onedoug
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To: Pietro

Didn’t South Carolina explicitly state they were seceding from the union because of slavery?


13 posted on 11/16/2012 8:05:17 AM PST by frogjerk (Obama Claus is coming to town!)
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To: onedoug

Republicans keep bragging about being the party of Lincoln. Well Lincoln was the LIBERAL of his time, the Democrats were the Conservatives. Why do you think the south held on to the Democrats until the 70’s? The democrats finally got SO liberal the old blue dogs couldn’t take it any more.


14 posted on 11/16/2012 8:05:50 AM PST by conservaterian (NOW can we have a conservative candidate?????)
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To: BobNative
bttt...author addresses some interesting points.
Myopic Lincoln-worship crowd won't like.
15 posted on 11/16/2012 8:05:54 AM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: onedoug

If you are torn between the principles of a Federal Gov’t and States’ rights you are a true American. That’s what the US is all about!


16 posted on 11/16/2012 8:06:50 AM PST by what's up
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To: LS
Just about every word except “and” and “the” in this so-called “review” is false...and otherwise bogus.

So Lincoln never represented Robert Matson?

17 posted on 11/16/2012 8:07:50 AM PST by Michael.SF. (Obama Lied, Stevens died.)
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To: BobNative
..two of my great-grandfathers fought for the Confederacy. One was a POW. I have deep southern roots and love the South.

Having said that I think true history points to Lincoln as being the greatest president in our history...

18 posted on 11/16/2012 8:13:18 AM PST by WalterSkinner ( In Memory of My Father--WWII Vet and Patriot 1926-2007)
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To: Pietro

You realize the exact same argument would have been made for King George had England won the revolution right?.

I don’t deny that slavery was the main reason behind secession but to claim men can be forced into a “Union” under threat of death or imprisonment? That’s an argument of oppression. Why not support extortion while you’re at it?


19 posted on 11/16/2012 8:13:30 AM PST by DwFry (Baby Boomers Killed Western Civilization!)
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To: DwFry
so would have preferred slavery remained in place.

You are then, in fact, pro-slavery.

Feel free to dress that up w/ whatever justifications make you feel better.

20 posted on 11/16/2012 8:18:35 AM PST by Pietro
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To: LS
Other than a minor quibble with some inconsequential dialogue, Medved thought the film was great and relatively accurate.
21 posted on 11/16/2012 8:25:26 AM PST by Tex-Con-Man (<-------currently working through post-election anger issues.)
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To: BobNative

“Lincoln refused to meet with Confederate commissioners who came to Washington to negotiate a peaceful separation in February of 1861.”

But then he had no more authority to negotiate a peaceful separation than the Obama administration has to “Peacefully grant the State of...to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government” in accord with the various petitions we read about.

“He did not seek a constitutionally required declaration of war...”

Why would a declaration of war be constitutionally required? If they were not acknowledging the right to secede, it would be a matter of an internal insurrection, not an external threat. “The Conch Republic is a micronation declared as a tongue-in-cheek secession of the city of Key West, Florida from the United States on April 23, 1982.” If somebody really wanted to make an issue of it, would Congress have to declare war against the Conch Republic just because they say they are a nation, or could Florida just send in the cops/national guard?


22 posted on 11/16/2012 8:25:47 AM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: BobNative
For the very reasons stated in this article, I will NOT see this movie........and will discourage as many as I can to do the same.
23 posted on 11/16/2012 8:28:01 AM PST by annieokie
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To: frogjerk

Yes indeed, the sole argument stated as a cause for complaint in South Carolinas declaration was the conflict about Article IV of the Constitution, and it was cited by several other states too; and slavery was the stated issue across all the seceding states even where the constitutional point of Article IV was not cited.


24 posted on 11/16/2012 8:28:39 AM PST by buwaya
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To: frogjerk

The 2nd time they did. During the Nullification Crisis of 1830 it wasn’t the issue. The Nullification crisis was an attempt by South Carolina to refuse the laws of the National Government due to excessive tariffs by threatening secession. Tariffs were the continuing, burning, simmering, underlying issue. The slavery issue, to the South, was the ‘straw that broke the camel’s back’ by 1860.


25 posted on 11/16/2012 8:29:25 AM PST by yadent
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To: Pietro

Yes, I either support the freedom to choose you own political offiliations or I support slavery......*roll eyes*

You’re running on emotion, not logic and reason.


26 posted on 11/16/2012 8:30:40 AM PST by DwFry (Baby Boomers Killed Western Civilization!)
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To: annieokie

The arguments in this review are mostly silly.

The best reason not to see it is because it was made by Spielberg.


27 posted on 11/16/2012 8:31:13 AM PST by buwaya
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To: Michael.SF.

John Adams represented the British soldiers after the Boston Massacre. He was a stealth Royalist!


28 posted on 11/16/2012 8:33:55 AM PST by SoCal Pubbie
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To: Pietro
Amen!

Have you ever considered the words of the Battle Hymn of the Republic?
As He died to make men holy, let US die to make men free

Union soldiers were fully aware they were fighting to end slavery. Historical revisionism is irrelevant.

29 posted on 11/16/2012 8:37:22 AM PST by stormhill
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To: LS

And yet you are apparently totally at a loss to point out any of the imagined fallacies.

Typical.


30 posted on 11/16/2012 8:39:49 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: buwaya

Glad you preceded your comment with an accurate disclaimer about it.

You can find documentation to support “slavery was the cause” and you can find it to support the opposite. As the piece says, for 85 percent of Southerners it makes no sense that they were fight for slavery.

This comment, however, is spot on, and a point I have made for years.

“Today, almost all of us are victims of the uncontrollable federal government and taxing excesses that were spawned by President Lincoln’s war.”

Lincoln decided the question about states rights vs powerful central government. We are now reaping the rewards via Obama and the destruction of the U.S.

Thanks.


31 posted on 11/16/2012 8:44:52 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: conservaterian
Well Lincoln was the LIBERAL of his time, the Democrats were the Conservatives

Bushwa!

That's almost as misleading as calling Nazis "Right wingers"
Democrats were and are liberals. Self determination and independence are and have always been Conservative principles. The will to keep people in plantations clearly militate against that.

32 posted on 11/16/2012 8:46:12 AM PST by stormhill
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To: jospehm20

bttt


33 posted on 11/16/2012 8:49:19 AM PST by A Cyrenian (Timothy Geithner - proving TurboTax is not idiot proof.)
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To: BobNative
You are incorrect and seemed to have believed some propaganda yourself. Lincoln was indeed consumed with freeing the slaves and the book, “ Father Abraham” has some amazing real quotes of the political debates as he was running for senate and president. Lincoln was also crafty and wise as a serpent, as the bible talks about. He knew what to say at times in order to get the cancer removed from America, because he knew that it was expansionary by it's nature and would eventually ruin our nation.
34 posted on 11/16/2012 8:51:06 AM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: LS

you are right. This author and freeper has believed the lefts lies about Lincoln not being so noble.


35 posted on 11/16/2012 8:52:35 AM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: DwFry

LOL! That was the exact thought I had.

Have you noticed how otherwise good FReepers who are also Lincoln lovers default to libtard-type “reasoning” when it comes to these discussions?


36 posted on 11/16/2012 8:52:39 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: buwaya
The arguments in this review are mostly silly.""""....

NO, the arguments in this review are TRUTH....., reason not to see it. Prior to the movie coming out, I knew it would be filled with some NONinformation.......failure to disclose.

37 posted on 11/16/2012 8:53:19 AM PST by annieokie
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To: BobNative

Spielberg has a tin ear for history. “Amistad” was a colossal artistic and commercial failure. And though it’s unpopular to say, absent the magnificent first twenty minutes of “Saving Private Ryan,” that film stinks up France.

“Lincoln” is a hit with the critics, but once the castor oil fans dutifully see it opening weekend, along with a bunch of school kids forced to watch it so they can write their “themes,” no one will pay to see it.


38 posted on 11/16/2012 8:54:58 AM PST by Blue Ink
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To: Blue Ink

BTW, it did officially “open” — in eleven hand-picked theaters — and sold out. Big deal.

Watch it drop like the stock market when it plays in the multiplex in the mall.


39 posted on 11/16/2012 8:57:04 AM PST by Blue Ink
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To: buwaya
The best reason not to see it is because it was made by Spielberg.

You are absolutely correct. ALL Conservatives should not see this or any film made by Obama sycophants.

40 posted on 11/16/2012 8:58:55 AM PST by sand88
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To: Lee'sGhost

The man has written US history books that have wound up on the NYT bestseller lists. He is highly thought of here on these boards and acknowledged to be one of the nation’s best conservative historians. Although I agree that more in depth discussion is in order I think his opinion should not be dismissed lightly. What, pray tell, are your qualifications?


41 posted on 11/16/2012 8:59:15 AM PST by Scoutdad
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To: frogjerk; buwaya

South Carolina

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of South Carolina and other States united with her under the compact entitled “The Constitution of the United States of America.”

We, the people of the State of South Carolina, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by us in convention on the twenty-third day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly of this State ratifying amendments of the said Constitution, are hereby repealed; and that the union now subsisting between South Carolina and other States, under the name of the “United States of America,” is hereby dissolved.

Done at Charleston the twentieth day of December, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty.

Source: Official Records, Ser. IV, vol. 1, p. 1.


42 posted on 11/16/2012 8:59:26 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: buwaya

Bump.

43 posted on 11/16/2012 9:02:24 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: LS

I was hoping you would weigh in. Have you seen the movie?


44 posted on 11/16/2012 9:04:27 AM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog

Not yet. I did see “Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter” which was pretty good. I’ll get to this. My gripe though is that the film looks at, I think, the wrong period of Lincoln’s life. It should have covered 1862-1864.


45 posted on 11/16/2012 9:11:37 AM PST by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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To: BobNative

Lincoln was a Statist. Nuff said.


46 posted on 11/16/2012 9:12:25 AM PST by gotribe
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To: central_va

Slavery was dying a slow death and it would have gone away. That being said, it was a good thing. However, ask anyone from SC about the Civil War and they will tell you, “We did not want a bunch of Yankees telling us what to do!”


47 posted on 11/16/2012 9:12:59 AM PST by lone star annie
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To: Pietro

Slavery was made legal again in the 1960s.


48 posted on 11/16/2012 9:15:43 AM PST by gotribe
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To: Pietro

Would anyone condone a person who sent the equivalent of 8,000,000 men today to death for ant reason short of mass murder?

Lincoln was a foul human being who like Obama could not accept people who did not bow down to him. He suspended habeus corpus illegally, instituted an income tax illegally, and directed atrocities to be committed against the southern people. He condone the rape of southern women by Sherman’s army. He should be considered a war criminal rather than an honored President. But, winners get to spin their own truths. Just ask Obama.


49 posted on 11/16/2012 9:16:03 AM PST by georgiarat (Obama, providing incompetence since Day One!!)
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To: Lee'sGhost

No, but I have noticed how otherwise good FReepers who are also Lost Cause Losers default to libtard-type “reasoning” when it comes to these discussions.


50 posted on 11/16/2012 9:17:43 AM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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