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Can House Stop U.N. Arms Trade Treaty Gun Grab?
IBD EDITORIALS ^ | November 23, 2012

Posted on 11/23/2012 4:14:54 PM PST by raptor22

Second Amendment: A House resolution, as futile as it may be, represents growing opposition to another administration bow to the U.N. encroachment on U.S. sovereignty at the expense of its laws and even our Constitution.

Treaties are ratified by a two-thirds majority of the Senate, and the final version of the U.N.'s Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) may likely be signed by this president and ratified by this Senate, especially if presented as a "sensible restriction" on international arms trafficking with no impact on our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

But some House members are not going to let it happen without a justified protest.

Before the House left for the Thanksgiving break, Rep. Mike Kelly, R-Pa., unveiled a resolution to make the treaty not binding and let no federal funds implement it unless the Senate consents and Congress passes implementing legislation.

The resolution is co-sponsored by 76 other House members, including some Democrats.

"There is considerable cause for alarm regarding the U.N.'s renewed efforts to forge an Arms Trade Treaty that could trample the constitutional rights of Americans and seriously compromise our national security and the security of our allies, whom we will be less able to arm and less quick to defend due to the restrictions placed on us by the ATT," Kelly said.

One of their key objections is with the requirement in the July draft of the treaty — which will be the starting point for final negotiations — for each member state to keep records on "end users," or gun purchasers, for a minimum of 10 years.

Hence, Americans who purchase an imported firearm may have to be registered in the country of origin. Ammunition could also be tracked and logged the same way.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government
KEYWORDS: 2a; 2ndamendment; armstradetreaty; banglist; govtabuse; guncontrol; gungrab; guns; ibd; ibdguns; keepandbeararms; rkba; rtkba; secondamendment; tyranny
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1 posted on 11/23/2012 4:15:01 PM PST by raptor22
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To: raptor22

Please.

A treaty cannot override the Constitution.

Any politician who tries to should be charged with treason


2 posted on 11/23/2012 4:18:27 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: raptor22

I am not sure that even a GOP super-majority in the House would prevent them from capitulating on most issues.


3 posted on 11/23/2012 4:21:11 PM PST by CatOwner
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To: GeronL

How many times has Obama and the Dems overridden the responsibilities of their respective offices? How many times have any of them been charged with treason?

There’s your answer.


4 posted on 11/23/2012 4:26:44 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Jonty30

Yep.

Just look how much power the Congress has handed over to the Executive Branch. A budget hasn’t been passed in 3 years and yet, the government is still open and running trillion and a half dollar deficits.


5 posted on 11/23/2012 4:32:08 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: raptor22

treaties cannot rewrite the constitution.

if so it’d be easier to do that than have the states amend it.

anything in a treaty that opposes something in the constitution, is null and void.


6 posted on 11/23/2012 4:35:17 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Nachum; markomalley; Clairity; Carlucci; grey_whiskers; meyer; WL-law; Para-Ord.45; ...

7 posted on 11/23/2012 4:41:35 PM PST by raptor22 (Join me on Twitter @gerfingerpoken)
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To: Nachum; markomalley; Clairity; Carlucci; grey_whiskers; meyer; WL-law; Para-Ord.45; ...

8 posted on 11/23/2012 4:42:19 PM PST by raptor22 (Join me on Twitter @gerfingerpoken)
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To: raptor22
Treaties are ratified by a two-thirds majority of the Senate,

Gad, even IBD has it wrong. Treaties are ratified by a two-thirds of Senators PRESENT, IOW as few as 34 with a minimum quorum. Treaties have been ratified with no record of a quorum at all.

9 posted on 11/23/2012 4:44:37 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: GeronL
A treaty cannot override the Constitution.

They already have, and have stood as such for over 70 years.

Better take a harder look at that comma in the supremacy clause.

10 posted on 11/23/2012 4:46:11 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: Carry_Okie

lolz

the comma!

Who added that comma and when?

Maybe a bug died there.


11 posted on 11/23/2012 4:48:43 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Secret Agent Man
treaties cannot rewrite the constitution.

They already have and have stood as such for over 70 years.

if so it’d be easier to do that than have the states amend it.

Yes, that was exactly Hamilton's intent, for which Henry took him to task in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, and for naught. You can read about that here.

anything in a treaty that opposes something in the constitution, is null and void.

We all wish. It just doesn't work that way. Take a harder look at that nasty comma in the supremacy clause.

12 posted on 11/23/2012 4:50:16 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: GeronL
Who added that comma and when?

It was always there. It restructures the construction of the entire clause from what one would otherwise rationally think. It sure as hell has been enforced that way.

13 posted on 11/23/2012 4:52:02 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: Carry_Okie

These people really are getting tiresome.


14 posted on 11/23/2012 5:01:36 PM PST by IGOTMINE (1911s FOREVER!)
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To: Carry_Okie

The statement was correct as written. “Present” is assumed.


15 posted on 11/23/2012 5:13:45 PM PST by raptor22 (Join me on Twitter @gerfingerpoken)
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To: Carry_Okie

any law repugnant to the constitution is null and void.

i’d like to se them pass it. they’d have no idea what kind of hell they’d unleash.


16 posted on 11/23/2012 5:17:22 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: raptor22

If the repubs in the senate stand united this will die because it will not be ratified. If they don’t ell what else is new.....maybe some gun toting lefty will help out


17 posted on 11/23/2012 5:24:22 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Secret Agent Man

yeah see how that flies with Roberts in the supreme court....Mr I wanna be liked will find a way to turn it into something it isn’t


18 posted on 11/23/2012 5:25:37 PM PST by Nifster
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To: raptor22
Can House Stop U.N. Arms Trade Treaty Gun Grab?

That's Not the Question Folks. The real issue lies in a much more valuable sentence.

Will the US House of Representatives Stop U.N. Arms Trade Treaty Gun Grab? You see, we have allowed the Hard Left to manipulate us by utilizing a technique called permeation. This maneuver requires a Southern GOP politician of some note to co-sponsor this new legislation.

I expect he will emerge shortly. Don't hold your breath folks, the Dixiecrat turn coat will come forth soon. Mark my words.

Paging Lindsay Graham, pick up the white curtesy phone please.

19 posted on 11/23/2012 5:28:07 PM PST by STD (“Cogito, ergo armatum sum)
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To: raptor22

The House has nothing to do with treaties.


20 posted on 11/23/2012 5:29:01 PM PST by RIghtwardHo
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To: GeronL
Please

The constitution is regularly ignored by all three branches of the government with out any consequences at all to the politicians and judges

21 posted on 11/23/2012 5:34:03 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: raptor22

Obama’s Gun Ban List Is Out
Remember, the first step in establishing a dictatorship is to disarm the citizens.
Rifles (or copies or duplicates):
M1 Carbine,
Sturm Ruger Mini-14,
AR-15,
Bushmaster XM15,
Armalite M15,
AR-10,
Thompson 1927,
Thompson M1;
AK,
AKM,
AKS,
AK-47,
AK-74,
ARM,
MAK90,
NHM 90,
NHM 91,
SA 85,
SA 93,
VEPR;
Olympic Arms PCR;
AR70,
Calico Liberty ,
Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC, Hi-Point20Carbine, HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, HK-PSG-1, Thompson 1927 Commando, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle; Saiga, SAR-8, SAR-4800, SKS with detachable magazine, SLG 95, SLR 95 or 96, Steyr AU, Tavor, Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle ( Galatz ).
Pistols (or copies or duplicates):
Calico M-110,
MAC-10,
MAC-11, or MPA3,
Olympic Arms OA,
TEC-9,
TEC-DC9,
TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10,
Uzi.
Shotguns (or copies or duplicates):
Armscor 30 BG,
SPAS 12 or LAW 12,
Striker 12,
Streetsweeper. Catch-all category (for anything missed or new designs):
A semiautomatic rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock,
(ii) a threaded barrel,
(iii) a pistol grip (which includes ANYTHING that can serve as a grip, see below),
(iv) a forward grip; or a barrel shroud.
Any semiautomatic rifle with a fixed magazine that can accept more than
10 rounds (except tubular magazine .22 rim fire rifles).
A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has:
(i) a second pistol grip,
(ii) a threaded barrel,
(iii) a barrel shroud or
(iv) can accept a detachable magazine outside of the pistol grip, and
(v) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.
A semiautomatic shotgun with:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock,
(ii) a pistol grip (see definition below),
(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine or a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds, and
(iv) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.


22 posted on 11/23/2012 5:35:02 PM PST by angelcindy ("If you follow the crowd ,you get no further than the crowd!")
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To: raptor22; All

If you know someone who is on the fence about gun ownership, take them to the range. Women have been the fastest growing segment of the gun owning population, largely because they are single mothers with no male figure to watch out for them. See how willfully all those new gun owners give up their guns. They fight for their pro-abortion rights.....no doubt they would fight for these too.

The best way to assure the defeat of bills like this, is to get more gun owners.


23 posted on 11/23/2012 5:39:58 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: raptor22
The statement was correct as written. “Present” is assumed.

Nonsense. "The Senate" consists of all its members. "Senators present" consists of those in chambers at any moment and has always been considered as such with regard to filibuster rules by an individual Senator.

24 posted on 11/23/2012 6:05:17 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Off the subject, but, has anyone here read the Vince Flynn novel - “Term Limits”? Just asking............


25 posted on 11/23/2012 6:12:39 PM PST by jivin gene (Breakin' up is hard to do)
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To: GeronL
Any politician who tries to should be charged with treason

I just have to ask: Charged by whom?
Prosecuted by whom?

Nothing is as it should be as long as this fraud is in the white house and his appointees head our government.

Laws mean nothing.
Honor means nothing.
The Constitution means nothing.

26 posted on 11/23/2012 6:14:58 PM PST by grobdriver
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To: angelcindy
Obama’s Gun Ban List Is Out

Source?

27 posted on 11/23/2012 6:20:54 PM PST by grobdriver
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To: Secret Agent Man
any law repugnant to the constitution is null and void.

Oh, is that why unconstitutional treaties are cited as authority for virtually every environmental law (for example, Title 16 Section 1531 citing authority for the Endangered Species Act? The scope of powers under these treaties WILDLY exceed constitutionally enumerated powers. If you don't believe that, do a careful read on the Convention on Nature Protection and Wild Life Preservation in the Western Hemisphere. Note especially the the limits of its powers extend to "any agency within man's control," thus FAR exceeding Constitutional authority. That treaty has been in force since 1941.

The scope of treaty power under the Constitution was a matter of serious contention in the ratifying process, but was blown off by Hamilton's smoke screen in Federalist 75. It was a Trojan Horse from the beginning. In your blind worship of the founding process, you've missed the hidden screw job.

28 posted on 11/23/2012 6:24:41 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: jivin gene

Go for it.


29 posted on 11/23/2012 6:28:20 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: raptor22
Can House Stop U.N. Arms Trade Treaty Gun Grab?

No, but armed citizens can.

"Remember, evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hoffmann

30 posted on 11/23/2012 6:28:35 PM PST by backwoods-engineer ("Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the gov officials committing it." -- K. Hoffmann)
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To: GeronL
Please. A treaty cannot override the Constitution. Any politician who tries to should be charged with treason

Ah, but look at this little fillet:

[Article] Hence, Americans who purchase an imported firearm may have to be registered in the country of origin. Ammunition could also be tracked and logged the same way. [Emphasis supplied.]

This could really screw up your planned future purchases of Bulgarian arsenal surplus 7.62x39 AK chow, or your Russian or Czecho 7.62x54R and 5.54mm armory stuff, or your plans to pick up a Romanian PSL or Belgian Browning or FAL. Even Benelli shotguns and Beretta Tomcats might be interdicted by the U.N. for U.S. "failure to comply/bow down/grovel/kowtow".

The pecking order there would be U.N. General Secretariat (inhabited, perhaps, by Barky or Slick?) > EU Eurocracy > Italian government > Benelli/Beretta (and their Italian gov't. licenses).

Molto leverage to screw with American interests there.

31 posted on 11/23/2012 6:54:46 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Carry_Okie

Did I see shot guns on that list? Shot guns? What about the hunters?


32 posted on 11/23/2012 6:55:34 PM PST by WVNan
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To: Nifster

whatever, there will be a real, practical backlash from 80 million gun owners.


33 posted on 11/23/2012 6:55:52 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

if women gave birth to guns instead of gunowners, obama and the gun-grabbers would NEVER try this.


34 posted on 11/23/2012 7:00:27 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: raptor22

So... when the goons in blue helmets show up knocking at the front door - with Obama’s blessings and a go-ahead from the national legislature - to confiscate all firearms... what then?

Food for thought.


35 posted on 11/23/2012 7:01:58 PM PST by Jack Hammer
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To: raptor22
Can House Stop U.N. Arms Trade Treaty Gun Grab?

Somebody had better stop it.. or we do have that crisis Abe is talking about.. we should of never have let those campus radical spoiled brats go loose. I knew it at time there'd be trouble ahead.

You initiated a policy to tolerate the Marxist-Alinsky radicals and let them rant; not only has it not ceased but was constantly augmented by decades of infiltration and indoctrination. You now have two Americas. In my opinion, it will not cease until a crisis shall have been reached and passed. A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure, permanently, half statist and half free; I do not expect the house to fall; but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing, or all the other.

Oh well.. at least we would be getting this over with if they try to put an end to the Second Amendment -- we should have settle this stuff a generation ago -- we've had two administrations (Clinton and now this one) of these pukes

.. and now this! Welcome to the Elite's New Normal


36 posted on 11/23/2012 7:02:44 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: grobdriver

this is good news then. if the consitution means nothing and laws’mean nothing, then this treaty will also mean nothing.


37 posted on 11/23/2012 7:03:49 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: backwoods-engineer

it willhave to be this way, and the lesser magistrates - our governors, state legislators, sheriffs, will hopefully also step up and lead the way.


38 posted on 11/23/2012 7:05:16 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Jack Hammer

then all the neighbors will have some target practice.


39 posted on 11/23/2012 7:06:53 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: jivin gene

“Off the subject, but, has anyone here read the Vince Flynn novel - ?Term Limits?? Just asking............”

Off the subject, but, has anyone here read the John Ross novel - Unintended Consequences? Just asking............


40 posted on 11/23/2012 7:22:43 PM PST by Ancesthntr (Why do blacks think that a half-white multi-millionairre really cares about them?)
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To: GeronL
A treaty cannot override the Constitution.

What Constitution. You mean that piece of paper that has been ignored by our communists Government? Total dictatorship not too far off and nothing to fight it. Civil War will never happen.

41 posted on 11/23/2012 7:32:53 PM PST by Logical me
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To: raptor22

The Constitution is a contract between the People and the states, creating a federal government of limited and ennumerated powers.

Note that in a contract, if one side simply violates it at will, the other side may simply walk away without penalty.

If the federal government simply ignores the very document that created it, I am of the opinion that the entire government and all of the “laws” that it has created can be similarly ignored. If millions or tens of millions would, this criminal enterprise calling itself our “government” would collapse in short order.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.


42 posted on 11/23/2012 7:34:11 PM PST by Ancesthntr (Why do blacks think that a half-white multi-millionairre really cares about them?)
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To: Jack Hammer

When the blue helmets kick down the front door, It’s already too late. The Idea is to intercept the convoy ON THE WAY to someone else’s house. You want to make their job so undesirable, it will be nearly impossible to get people to do it.


43 posted on 11/23/2012 8:12:01 PM PST by Boiling point (Socialism; Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.)
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To: GeronL

Just maybe they are working together,that’s my thought,and i would bet that we the people have not seen anything yet....


44 posted on 11/23/2012 8:16:43 PM PST by primrose (PRIMROSE)
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To: GeronL

Then it seems obammy should be charged in oh so many multiple ways for going against the U.S. Constitution.
Hang him.


45 posted on 11/24/2012 3:42:05 AM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: Boiling point
When the blue helmets kick down the front door, It’s already too late. The Idea is to intercept the convoy ON THE WAY to someone else’s house. You want to make their job so undesirable, it will be nearly impossible to get people to do it.

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would
things have been like if every Security operative, when he 
went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain 
whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to 
his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for 
example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the 
entire city, people had not simply sat there in their 
lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs 
door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood 
they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the 
downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, 
hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The 
Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of 
officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's 
thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! 
If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we 
had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and 
simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

                          -- Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn 

46 posted on 11/24/2012 7:47:28 AM PST by Peet (Everything has an end -- only the sausage has two.)
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To: Ancesthntr

Of course, the trick here is to get those “millions or tens of millions” coordinated. How many showed up to help the Weaver family? Which militia flanked the FBI at Waco?

So long as Joe Sixpack has to provide support for his wife and 2.3 children he’ll avoid pulling the whiskers of Leviathan. Only when Leviathan actively threatens HIS family will he (maybe) open the gun safes that hold his rifle and ammo (in seperate safes, naturally) and confront the threat. Let’s face it, we ARE a nation of cowards... right now.

Maybe though, in a few years, after a few more officially cleared shootings at wrong addresses Joe will realize that the police are not his friends anymore and he’ll simply go hunting. I doubt that I’ll see that day nor will many on this board. Instead, the screws will tighten so slowly that none of us will see the actual point at which we become the property of “The Ruling Class.” That tactic worked well in Germany and people aren’t much different now than then.


47 posted on 11/24/2012 7:59:55 AM PST by oldfart (Obama nation = abomination. Think about it!)
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To: Peet

Beautiful quote, thank you.


48 posted on 11/24/2012 9:21:16 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: oldfart
Of course, the trick here is to get those “millions or tens of millions” coordinated.

If you can't eat you won't fight long and they know it. If you are taken with smallpox, you won't fight long and they know it.

Preparation first, coordination second. In fact, the Biblical coordination system was via extended families, which is the real meaning of the Fifth Commandment.

49 posted on 11/24/2012 9:24:17 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: WVNan
Did I see shot guns on that list? Shot guns?

To which list do you refer?

What about the hunters?

$oros wants you dependent upon the food he is selling. in his mind, wolves will take care of all those extra deer.

50 posted on 11/24/2012 11:42:44 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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