Skip to comments.(Cops & Robbers Agree!) California Police Wish Gun Owners Would Just Comply with Robbers
Posted on 11/30/2012 2:24:58 PM PST by DogByte6RER
California Police Wish Gun Owners Would Just Comply with Robbers
If a couple of thugs break into your place of business and point a gun in your face, then you would be perfectly justified in opening fire on them, right? Well, maybe not. San Jose police are giving one gun owner a stern tsk-tsk after she defended her property from a pair of armed thieves.
According to ABC Local 7 News, a pair of thieves wearing masks and hooded sweatshirts burst into a San Jose jewelry store at 10:15 a.m. on Monday. At least one of the would-be thieves was armed.
The thieves probably thought that they were going to make off with a bag full of bling, but instead they nearly caught a bullet. The store owner, who was reportedly a woman, drew a pistol and leveled it at the two would-be thieves. She fired at least one shot but did not strike either of them it is unclear whether that was a warning shot or if she simply missed.
Either way, the bullet did its job. The two thieves quickly fled the store and made their escape in an SUV. Cops are currently looking for leads on the two suspects. According to Yahoo News, they are examining video surveillance and other tapes for clues.
In the meantime, the police are giving gun owners a piece of their mind. Albert Morales, the San Jose Police spokesman, said, "We don't recommend (drawing a gun or firing). We would have preferred that they just go ahead and comply with the request or demands of the robbers. Again they were after material items that could be replaced and again our biggest fear is that somebody would have gotten hurt, injured and possibly even died."
You know who else would have preferred that the jewelry store owner had just complied? The thieves. Who wouldve thought that cops and robbers would ever be able to agree on something?
Despite this, the police have not pressed charges against the gun owner probably because all she did was exercise a perfectly legal Constitutional right. The police agree that it's OK to open fire, but they're just expressing how much they dislike it. That isn't a big deal, right?
The problem is that when a statement like that comes from police, the subtle implication is that theres something inherently immoral or illegal about using a gun in self-defense. It could give people the wrong impression about firearms -- whether thats intentional or accidental is an entirely different debate.
If Morales should be scolding anybody, it should be the pair of thieves who threatened that woman. The fact of the matter is that there's nothing wrong with using a gun in self-defense as long as you comply with the laws in your locality. The opinion of the San Jose police is simply that -- an opinion.
Why don't you weigh in with your opinion? Did the store owner do the right thing, or should people across America put up their hands and do whatever robbers say? We know that thieves could get behind that slogan, but what do you think?
>> “Good weapons management would be to brandish it only, or only open fire when there was a direct threat to her life, not her property.” <<
You’re an idiot!
You don’t “Brandish” anything, that makes you a sitting duck. You tale careful aim and shoot to kill, assuming that you’ll only get one clean shot.
That's not counting the times the crook gets the goods & kills the person so he can't be identified.
So then the case goes to homicide instead of to the detectives who never find him anyway.
I think you are lying as all of your statements have clearly shown that you know NOTHING on the subject.
Maybe you can go find a thread about baking cupcakes as the adults don't need your stupid advice on this thread.
I appreciate your concern for careless gun handling, but that shouldn’t translate into support for the statism you’re implying.
Not sure why you’re questioning “weapons management” when you go on about the benefits of training.
Instead of telling the citizens to submit to hostility, the LEOs should be providing info about how best to handle firearms; “weapons management”.
This is what I would load if in an urban retail location.
Yep. Give them whatever they want, walk to the back room and lay face down when asked, because I've never, ever heard of any robbery in which the victims where executed at the end. It just doesn't happen. You have the Police Chiefs word on it.
“The only downside to shooting the scum is the cleanup and you are left with the liquid waste removal.”
Maybe bullets could have a cork tied on to follow along behind and plug the hole...
“The only downside to shooting the scum is the cleanup and you are left with the liquid waste removal.”
Maybe bullets could have a cork tied on to follow along behind and plug the hole...
Agree to the Nth degree! (don’t laugh, I’m on a roll tonight)
Uncle once told me (he was Korea, and 2 tours VN)
“If a man is scared enough to pull a weapon, he’s scared enough to use it.”
And then, he gave me the meat and potatoes: “Never pull a weapon unless you INTEND to use it, cause if you don’t intend to use it, you’ll just get shot by the other guy who is more scared than you.”
The girl did alright.
I have trouble believing you ...
I see stupid people. They’re everywhere ... and they don’t even know they’re stupid.
Farrah Fawcett was in a very interesting movie about women who capture and torture a rapist/killer, who wanted to rape and kill one of them, called Extremities (1986).
The movie was very low budget, but made a good box office, and it left me wondering how a “revenge fantasy” movie would do, based on some store owner who captures, tortures and threatens to kill an unsympathetic armed robber.
There is an awful lot of animosity out there to armed robbers, and I bet that if the screenplay pushed some good dramatic buttons, it could be much like the Dirty Harry series.
What part of what I have said makes you think I am lying? I will freely admit I’ve never fired a gun in anger at another person, but I have fired plenty of guns at targets, and I know from that that my aim was pretty good when I had total focus, but sucked when I was faced with distractions and other stresses. Faced with a situation where I felt I had to use a gun on another person, I know from other violent situations I’ve been in with a high adrenaline level and consequent decline in fine motor skills that my aim would have sucked badly in that situation, and I’m pretty damn sure I wouldn’t be the only one whose shots would be going wild.
There it is: IACP. That says it all right there. I’ve been warning people about that organization. Gun grabbing liberal bed wetters that have infiltrated law enforcement agencies across the country.
Seems like a sensible idea. Personally, if someone shot me or someone in my family because they were using penetrative ammo that came flying through the wall, I would prosecute them to the full extent of the law, regardless of the reasons why they fired the gun. I might be more sympathetic if they used a shotgun or the type of ammo you’ve posted, because at least it shows they were trying to be responsible.
Don’t think “bullseye” or “head shot”. Think “center of mass”. And use a target sized such that a hit of any sort represents a torso hit, X-ring or not.
You’ve been around FR for a while. You appear to be an “abstract” thinker. Which is all well and good.
But until you have been by yourself, surrounded by bad guys, there is another side to life.
Let me ask you one simple question: Have you ever had the overwhelming taste of a copper penny in your mouth, when NO copper penny is IN your mouth?
This is not a trick question, not an attempt at humor, not sarcasm, and not a means to ridicule you.
Those who know what I am talking about, need no explanation. Those who don’t, can’t. Until that day they taste it. Then they know, and can never explain it to those who don’t.
The street has no mercy.
Shut up, you’re just digging a deeper hole.
>> “Personally, if someone shot me or someone in my family because they were using penetrative ammo that came flying through the wall, I would prosecute them to the full extent of the law” <<
You mean your heirs would sue?
I appreciate your polite and respectful response. The only reason I question ‘weapons management’ is that for reasons already stated, I question how it is practical it is to really train the average person to handle a gun responsibly and safely (especially with regards to bystanders). I’m trying to visualise putting granny through a ‘stress training’ exercise where a big burly instructor gets in their face and starts shoving them and swearing at them and threatening to f*** them. That is the kind of training I that I believe someone should submit themselves to in order to learn how to handle the stresses of using a gun for self-defence in a situation where there are likely to be bystanders, but I doubt most people would be willing to undergo that kind of thing...
“Good weapons management would be to brandish it only, or only open fire when there was a direct threat to her life, not her property”
An armed robber and an accomplice was in the store, how much threat to her life do you require? A statement of “I’m going to kill you?”
And brandishing weapons in non lethal force situations is very dicey business. And you are in for the dissappointment of your life if you think brandishing a gun is like some kind of obedience ray. It’s obvious that you have no practical or legal expertise here and are simply opining on what sounds acceptable to a housewife watching the TV news.
But lets let a couple of home invaders gang types come into your living room, (while you are there). At least one armed with a gun, and you can tell us if you think your life is under “direct threat”.
Or the bullet could ricochets off the metal window frame and maybe down to the street and maybe then off the bumper of a 1936 Cord convertible and then maybe, its energy almost spent, hit little Myron Goldsmuckerstein in his left pinky causing a rash that discourages him from violin and he goes on to a life of petty crime and letters to the editor writing thus breaking his mothers heart.
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As one of the gun nuts around here, teach the children well and start young. Then only the bad guys catch any bullets. They tell me I started at age 3. I really don’t remember the details myself.
Come on, granny ladies have been blasting away at bad guys for a few centuries.
Look at the news for the last few years. Grannies have been doing quite well for themselves IN SPITE OF doogooder nannycrats who think granny ladies should give up the old man’s shotgun and rely on 911.
I can dredge up about 100 stories of granny ladies dusting off perps. How many stories can you dredge up about granny ladies accidentally whacking their kin?
At one point I was ready to give you a benefit of the doubt, but with this post, I think you are pulling stuff out your butt and throwing it against the wall to see what sticks.
Cops: Proof you never can be too stupid to get a job.
Spoken like someone that has never been there.
I doubt it is possible for you to be a bigger fag.
When seconds count...
.... your local LEO's are only minutes away!
Or the SKY might fall, or the CREEKS WILL RISE, or the Sun May Explode!!
A 1936 Cord? I know what that is, I rode in one!! Dad had one!! (for two weeks while he fixed it for the rich guy)LOL
Did us poor farmers have FUN tooling around in that thing on “test” drives to make sure the timing and brakes were right? (the owner thought it was funny and didn’t get p.o.ed)
Life was simpler then! As poor as we were, we still had FUN.
I’ve spent years training in martial arts. I’ve being doing Jiu Jitsu for 7 years and Krav Maga for 2. I’ve undergone pressure drills that have built up to facing someone really making a genuine effort to take me out with baseball bats, coshes and metal chains. Its disconcerting at first, but we built up to it. At the end of the day, it was practicable to do so, because cocking it up meant, at worst a trip to the hospital (and I’ve seen it happen many times), and it was unlikely that any bystanders could have gotten hurt by what we did.
I’ve never had to use violence in real life since I left school, fortunately, but I came pretty close last year when I was accosted by three surly tw*ts (insert vowel of your choice) who would have mugged me if I hadn’t made it very clear from what I said and from what I imagine was an angry look of calm on my face that I was ready to kick all their asses or go down trying. I was definitely terrified and I know that if I’d had to fight, it wouldn’t have been anything like as nuanced as anything I’d done in training.
This was happening in broad daylight near a busy road by the way, and let me tell you, the idea that was forming in my terrified mind was to piledrive the nearest one into the path of an oncoming car before dealing with the others (my state of mind wasn’t making any allowance for the consequence for the driver). So I know from that that being scared for your life makes your judgement a lot poorer, even if you are trained.
To be honest, now that I’ve had a chance to read and reflect (even from some of the less polite posters here) I can get that what the lady did was understandable, but the potential consequences to bystanders are still worth considering, and perhaps that is why the police are not happy about the idea of people blazing away at bad guys with guns unless it is a last resort.
While you make it quite a drama, large numbers of armed normal people find it -not at all- to be the way you describe. Extraneous BS becomes filtered out. You can only process so much input. Important gets in, crap is filtered out.
Once you know he is the armed robber, and has a gun, thats the big strokes. You may have trouble later even remembering what he said, or what his gun looked like.
This is because those things simply do-not-matter in THAT instant.
It then becomes very easy to do what you have done at the range, and squeeze off an effective shot.
Also, your 12 gauge shotgun recoil may feel like a kids BB gun. Your 357 may barely pop. A before, those noises and mior kicks are extraneous and will be filtered out.
Training the way you suggest is not needed. A shootout is much more akin to imagining a kid darts out in front of you chasing a ball. You brake and swerve before you think about it. The event is -long over- before all the melodramatic fear responses you describe kick in. You seem to think it’s some almost mystical, impossible thing to do well.
I don’t fully blame you, because people like to associate successfully using a gun as a skill that only the descendants of Wyatt Earp or a SEAL have any hope of doing.
According to the myth, you have to have nerves of steel, the confidence of a Topgun pilot, the training of an astronaut, and a law degree to ever use a gun to defend yourself.
The problem is 80 year olds who often do it. What about the 12 year old girl who just did it?
I fully realize it’s probably impossible to convince you. You are certain that it’s an adrenaline filled, vomit inducing, ultimate fear ride. So thats what it will be for you. But in reality, if you have the strength and fine motor skills to operate a blow drier, if you can cope with stress such that you can drive a car,, you can indeed do well in a shootout.
I am not kidding you, driving ANY freeway in the Bay Area or LA is far more stress than you will ever have in a gunfight. Are you reduced to ineffective jelly then? Most people can get through it fine.
I’m answering you to reassure those who might read your words, and think you have any idea how it really is.
” Albert Morales, the San Jose Police spokesman, said, “We don’t recommend (drawing a gun or firing). We would have preferred that they just go ahead and comply with the request or demands of the robbers.”
American big city cops aren’t stupid. Anyone who thinks that this commie worm Morales will lead an operation to go door-to-door and collect weapons from armed combat veterans isn’t paying attention. Buckwheat has no “army.” Buckwheat has a big, fat mouth that he can’t back up with muscle.
I know enough cops that if TSHF, they’ll be motoring back home at 80 mph with red lights flashing to protect their families, just like any normal man would.
Ok, that ricochet scenario should be in some kind of hall of fame. Seriously,,,lol
That is the pont of training. Make the action more automatic and controlled.
“If the cops advocated firing upon criminals, it would be the basis for a large lawsuit.”
I’m guessing you don’t live in a county with a constitutional sheriff. I do. Our sheriff goes to local ladies meetings and urges them to get armed and learn how to shoot the bad guys. When a pair of burglars broke into a man’s apartment, he shot both the thieves between the eyeballs, killing them dead. The sheriff complimented the man on his good shooting.
If you don’t have a constitutional sheriff in your county, consider electing one.
Well reasoned post. The fact of the matter is this: when confronted with violence, you are ALL ALONE. What you do cannot be second-guessed by monday morning quarterbacks. You do what you do at the time, and if someone doesn’t like it, Oh Effin Well.
I think the point that a lot of less eloquent posters have tried to make here is this: Its really hard to judge what you will do when confronted as she was.
The girl had a piece. She chose to present that piece and blow off a few caps, and that ended the confrontation. Yea, a whole lot of lead went flying about. No one got hurt. Good deal. Perps learned a lesson.
Could an innocent bystander have been hurt? Could a crane fall from the skyscraper being built? Could a sink hole open and swallow a car with babies inside?
Could you win the lottery?
Point is this: living your life based on what BAD COULD HAVE HAPPENED will paralyze you into inactivity.
The girl made a CHOICE. She took action. She probably saved her own life. She certainly sent shivers down the spines of the bad guys. NO ONE ELSE GOT HURT.
And at the “end of the day,” it was a really good day.
If you live in fear of what “could have happened”, you live in fear forever. Not a place I want to be.
Have a good evening.
Your absolute lack of knowledge on the subject beyond having watched TV.
I know from other violent situations Ive been in with a high adrenaline level and consequent decline in fine motor skills that my aim would have sucked badly in that situation,
Obviously you have no training what so ever so I believe that YOU should not even think about carrying a gun.
and Im pretty damn sure I wouldnt be the only one whose shots would be going wild.
Don't project your inadequacies on the rest of us who do carry, have training and plenty of practice.
I have had to pull my gun twice and though I didn't have to shoot it to resolve the situation I was prepared and ready to do so. Also my hand wasn't shaking like an old lady with palsy as you have stated yours would be.
This is a serious subject and you should really keep your uninformed opinion and cowardly advice to yourself.
My Constitution is a little bit different from your Constitution. :)
However, I do agree with your sentiments.
And don’t think for a minute that word doesn’t get out on the streets. Thugs know, “that store is the one that shot at some robbers”.
Only the new robber in town would ever go there again.
They also know the easy marks.
That might have included her being murdered. How does this "spokesman" know that the theives wouldn't have gunned her down as an afterthought. It's happened before. This pompous ass needs to do what if I said it I'd be banned. And he should be fired to boot. Damned jackass.
Another profundity: when surrounded, focus on the leader of the pack. Wrap your arms around him, bite his face, push your fingers into his eyes, bite anything of him that gets near you. His screams will unnerve his team. Bite his fingers off, stick your pinky up his nose, and no matter how bad his homies are beating you, NEVER let go of the "ring leader."
Bite, stab eyes, bite fingers, sucker punch the adam's apple. Be like a leach on the "leader."
You may well die, but you will make the gang pee themselves.
ALL IN IS ALL IN. Trouble is, too many White breads have punked out on their own.
I’ve seen that dynamic in action in Philly! (my old home town)
About 2 months ago we had a gas station / convenience store owner whose business was only a few blocks from son #2’s house complied with robbers, gave them what they wanted, and still was shot and killed
Me - I’ll aim for center mass and not stop shooting till they stop advancing
This is one of my favorite videos. Earlier this year a 65 year old Jewelry Store owner...
A few weeks earlier a patron at a Florida Gaming Parlor (or whatever they’re called now) unloading on some thugs who were planning on robbing everyone.
...and if after they're done robbing the store, these lowlifes then shoot the store owner to death then what???? If some one is pointing a gun at you, they have shown an intent to kill. If you don't have a right to defend yourself then, when do you? These police are idiots to give such advice.
If my son ever spouted this kind of crap I would tell him to pack up his vagina and get the hell out of my house!