Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

State judge rules Louisiana school voucher program unconstitutional
FOX NEWS ^ | 11-30-12 | ap

Posted on 11/30/2012 7:24:49 PM PST by TurboZamboni

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal's private school tuition voucher program has been ruled unconstitutional by a state judge.

State Judge Tim Kelley said Friday that the program improperly diverts money allocated through the state's public school funding formula to private schools. He also said it unconstitutionally diverts local tax dollars to private schools.

Kelley ruled in a lawsuit backed by teacher unions and school boards seeking to shut down the voucher program.

The state education department and the Board of Elementary and Secondary Education said the programs were funded and created in line with the constitution.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: education; louisiana; schoolvouchers; teachers; unions; vouchers
Keeping the status quo is easier than innovating. If vouchers are going to "siphon money from government schools" why isn't the same true in higher education? I don't hear state college professors running around crying about Pell grant("government dollars") money "unfairly" being used to attend St.Thomas,Gustavus,St.Johns,Notre Dame or other private religiously affiliated schools.

What happened to the magic wall between "church and state" there?

Since government doesn't create wealth and only consumes it, how can it "give parents back" what was always theirs anyway?

Part of the beauty of being an American is choices.Look in the yellow pages. Thirty-one flavors or thirty thousand attorneys to choose from. Variety is a good thing.

Some may choose for proximity,some for class size,some for shared belief systems,or a class for gifted mathematicians.Why is choice and competition considered good in everything EXCEPT education?

1 posted on 11/30/2012 7:24:53 PM PST by TurboZamboni
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

I think government schools are unconstitutional.


2 posted on 11/30/2012 7:26:02 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

teachers unions dont want to lose dues, they dont care about the kids.


3 posted on 11/30/2012 7:27:19 PM PST by Rusty0604
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All


Let's Put This Baby To Bed!!
Less Than $983 To Go Green!!
Please Help End This Quarter's FReepathon

Sponsoring FReepers are contributing
$10 Each time a New Monthly Donor signs up!
Get more bang for your FR buck!
Click Here To Sign Up Now!


4 posted on 11/30/2012 7:28:42 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni
Just another case of the left protecting their own.

We wouldn't want the teacher's union to have to compete.

5 posted on 11/30/2012 7:32:01 PM PST by Washi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: TurboZamboni
...diverts money allocated through the state's public school funding formula to private schools....local tax dollars to private schools.

The Constitution says that kids HAVE to be educated in public schools? Nonsense.

Suppose a locality wants to hire a private janitorial company to empty the waste baskets at city Hall. Would that "improperly divert" tax dollars away from government janitors?

7 posted on 11/30/2012 7:34:34 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

Tell that judge to screw off. He is in no position to rule anything unconstitutional.

Really. What do you think got us in this mess? Listening to little pissant judges....that’s what.


8 posted on 11/30/2012 7:36:05 PM PST by KittenClaws (You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

Am I the only one who expects these articles to include the part of the constitution the judge claims is being violated, along with the reasoning?


9 posted on 11/30/2012 7:39:37 PM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

I’m assuming he’s claiming a violation of the state constitution, but in typical AP fashion, we’ll never know.


10 posted on 11/30/2012 7:42:22 PM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]


Woo hoo!! Less than $1k to go!! And we can definitely do this.
100 Donations @ $10.00 each or
50 DONATIONS @ $20.00 EACH PUTS THIS BABY TO BED!!!!

11 posted on 11/30/2012 7:44:12 PM PST by RedMDer (Please support Toys for Tots this CHRISTmas season.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

how come “choice” only applies to killing your child, not educating him???


12 posted on 11/30/2012 7:46:55 PM PST by terycarl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RedMDer

Welfare diverts money to private business...is it unconstitutional?


13 posted on 11/30/2012 7:48:01 PM PST by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Tzar
I don't know about Milwaukee but voucher programs have been very effective in New Orleans. Katrina was actually a blessing in disguise as it flooded so many Schools. While the public schools were struggling to reopen the voucher schools were springing up all over. They are so popular in NOLA that lottery's have to be held because the demand for getting your kid in one is so great. There have been articles written and a mini documentary done where independent groups have gone in to check these voucher Schools out and found the kids, mostly low income blacks, are very bright and especially well disciplined.

Louisiana probably has the largest number of Catholic schools per capita then any other state and the Catholic Schools do receive vouchers. Another odd thing about La. is that you can get a tax break for the tuition you pay for your child to attend a private school. I've lived all over the Country and La. is definitely the most unusual state I've lived in.

This issue is all about the teachers union. Voucher schools are not unionized. The unions tried to unionize them but the unions were rejected. Plan B for the Unions was to take it to the courts.

14 posted on 11/30/2012 8:05:39 PM PST by BBell (And Now for Something Completely Different)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

11. Thou shalt not stray from the government mind.


15 posted on 11/30/2012 8:11:06 PM PST by mykroar (BAD-ANON: One Game At A Time)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GeronL
I think government schools are unconstitutional.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bingo!

It is impossible to have a religiously neutral education and all schools must suppress First Amendment Rights just to maintain order and safety. They must strictly censor speech , press, assembly, and free expression of religious belief.

So?....Why then would government be involved in pushing a non-neutral religious agenda ( currently atheistic) on captive children? Why should the government be in the business of crushing the First Amendment Rights of children?

This fundamental conflict between government schooling and the First Amendment and freedom of conscience CAN NOT BE FIXED!

Solution: Abolish government schools.

16 posted on 11/30/2012 8:38:19 PM PST by wintertime
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: wintertime

I agree


17 posted on 11/30/2012 8:39:53 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Tzar

Public schools are not more entitled to those dollars than private or religious schools.


18 posted on 11/30/2012 8:41:26 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: terycarl
how come “choice” only applies to killing your child, not educating him???
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Corollary:
A 12 year old is mature enough to find a safe abortuary but her parents are too dumb to use a voucher wisely.

19 posted on 11/30/2012 8:41:43 PM PST by wintertime
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

That state has one too many judges, time for spending cuts


20 posted on 11/30/2012 8:43:04 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tzar
I have read that in every study comparing those who won the lottery for entrance to a private school with those who lost, the private school students far exceed the progress of those who remained in the government schooled children.

However,....The NEA and education establishment elites have done highly biased studies ( highly massaged with means and socio-ecnomic ratings ) that show that there is no difference in achievement between government schools and voucher schools when averaged over all the participants. None of these studies has shown voucher schools ( on average) to be performing worse no matter how hard they tried to mash the data to fit their agenda.

21 posted on 11/30/2012 8:49:20 PM PST by wintertime
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: KittenClaws

“Really. What do you think got us in this mess? Listening to little pissant judges....that’s what.”

Since 1803. That is how long we have been on a wrong track.


22 posted on 11/30/2012 9:12:27 PM PST by Psalm 144 (Where would Christianity be if the early church put its hopes and trust in the Roman empire?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Psalm 144

I don’t disagree, though it has never been as obvious as it has been since, gee, dang, to be honest, since George HW Bush.


23 posted on 11/30/2012 9:19:51 PM PST by KittenClaws (You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: wintertime

Isn’t it puzziling how the left is so adamant about denying kids financial aid until they graduate from high school and then do a about face and demand financial aid for the same kid to attend collage?


24 posted on 11/30/2012 9:42:14 PM PST by Blackirish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: BBell

My main objection to many existing voucher programs is that they are deliberatley targeting minority children while whites have to pay the full freight for private education while subsidizing the vouchers for “others”. I’m involved with Catholic groups here in NJ that have these drives to petition for vouchers in NJ, but they target areas that are not just “ethnic” - they aren’t Catholic at all (though the drive is being pushed by a coalition fighting for Catholic schools). I have Catholic children that can’t go to Catholic school; why would I send non-Catholics? They vote foe Dems that propagate failing public schools anyway.

Catholic schools in NJ are going the way of the dodo, and they should. Too many Catholics have been told they can vote Dem and attain salvation for their souls; I’m not God, but I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes when they meet Him.


25 posted on 11/30/2012 10:09:01 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: andyk

You are not alone. It is a symptom of the disease that is killing our republic. Legislative power has been largely removed from bodies responsible to the people.


26 posted on 12/01/2012 3:53:03 AM PST by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Blackirish
Isn’t it puzziling how the left is so adamant about denying kids financial aid until they graduate from high school and then do a about face and demand financial aid for the same kid to attend collage?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is another BINGO!

Any child of any age who passes the GED, a similar private exam, or certain SAT/ACT scores should be given an official high school diploma from their local government school board.

Savings to taxpayers: ENORMOUS ( Plus extra taxes paid by the child for the extra years he works)

Cost to taxpayers: NOTHING

Benefit to child: Several added years of work experience, training, or higher education.

27 posted on 12/01/2012 4:56:55 AM PST by wintertime
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

The choice part of the voucher argument sounds great, but another part is that private schools which accept voucher students are now accepting government funds, and the use of goverenment funds by schools has been used as the excuse to impose every type government dictate on schools.

How long before schools accepting vouchers will have some government bureaucracy suing over their curriculum, admission standards (accepting too many vouchers from white kids), religious content of school activities, and all the other practices that often bring law suits and governement interference in schools?


28 posted on 12/01/2012 6:33:28 AM PST by Will88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Will88

The solution to that might be tuition tax credits.


29 posted on 12/01/2012 6:35:56 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni
Tuition tax credits probably won't solve it. Tax credits are allowed for many things, but the government is very restrictive in what qualifies. Charitible contributions to approved charities are allowed tax credits. And what about the kids of the 50% who pay no federal income tax? None of them would be able to take advantage of tax credits, and benefits they would enjoy have probably been the biggest selling point for voucher programs.

As long as the voucher debate has been around I've wondered if there is some part of it I'm not aware of. A main reason private schools are established is so that a better type, or different type of education can be offered, free of government meddling. It's always seemed to me that if vouchers ever gained widespread approval, that that would allow as much government meddling and law suit meddling into a private school accepting vouchers as has been the case with many state public schools for decades.

Accept government funds in the form of vouchers, surrender your ability to make decisions on how to run your private school.

I bet if vouchers become widespread, fewer and fewer private schools would accept them. Or else, there's some key point that I'm missing as to how a private school could accept vouchers and still make its own decisions about how to run the school, which is the purpose of most privates schools in the first place.

30 posted on 12/01/2012 6:56:27 AM PST by Will88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: TurboZamboni

So private parks divert money from State Parks, etc. His reasoning would require many other private enterprises to go by the wayside I imagine.


34 posted on 12/01/2012 8:22:02 AM PST by Anima Mundi (Envy is just passive, lazy greed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tzar
Public money always comes with strings attached.

And there is a voucher program of another sort that should provide some clues as to have a more general education voucher program might work: Section 8 housing vouchers.

35 posted on 12/01/2012 8:38:24 AM PST by Will88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Tzar

Here is an article about the study:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444184704577585582150808386.html

The Marxist NEA have concocted highly massaged studies using social and economic class, poverty levels, free lunch participation, and race but even they can’t prove that voucher children ( on average) do worse. Their studies conclude that the outcomes are equal.


36 posted on 12/01/2012 8:46:16 AM PST by wintertime
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Tzar
Here is part of the article:

Of the 2,666 students in the original study, necessary information was available for over 99%. To see whether those who won the lottery were more likely to go to college, we linked student Social Security numbers and other identifying characteristics to college enrollment data available from the National Student Clearinghouse, which collects that information from institutions of higher education attended by 96% of all U.S. students. We know of no other voucher study that has been as successful at tracking students over such a long period of time.

Enlarge Image

David Gothard
Although our study identified no significant impact on college enrollments among Hispanic students (and too few white and Asian students participated for us to analyze), the impact on African-American students was large. Not only were part-time and full-time college enrollment together up 24%, but full-time enrollment increased 31% and attendance at selective colleges (enrolling students with average SAT scores of 1100 or higher) more than doubled, to 8% from 3%.

37 posted on 12/01/2012 8:49:48 AM PST by wintertime
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Tzar
The researchers were Chingos and Peterson.
38 posted on 12/01/2012 8:50:54 AM PST by wintertime
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Will88

Another voucher program is food stamps.


39 posted on 12/01/2012 8:52:01 AM PST by wintertime
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Will88

vouchers are issued to parents/children....where they use them should be irrelevant to anyone.


40 posted on 12/01/2012 6:41:56 PM PST by terycarl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: terycarl
vouchers are issued to parents/children....where they use them should be irrelevant to anyone.

A lot of things that should be irrelevant end up in court, and you can be sure that if a widespread voucher system ever came into use that schools that accepted them would be subject to all sorts of lawsuits and government interference on the grounds that they were receiving public funds (vouchers to be honored by a government).

41 posted on 12/01/2012 7:11:20 PM PST by Will88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Rusty0604

FLASHBACK VIDEO: Teachers Union Bigshot – Not About Kids, It’s About Power

In 2009, after 41 years as the nations top education lawyer for the National Education Association, Bob Chanin gave his farewell address in which he said it’s not about kids, but about power.

“Despite what some among us would like to believe it is not because of our creative ideas. It is not because of the merit of our positions. It is not because we care about children and it is not because we have a vision of a great public school for every child. NEA and its affiliates are effective advocates because we have power.”

“And we have power because there are more than 3.2 million people who are willing to pay us hundreds of millions of dollars in dues each year, because they believe that we are the unions that can most effectively represent them, the unions that can protect their rights and advance their interests as education employees.”

http://blog.eyeblast.tv/2011/02/flashback-teachers-union-bigshot-not-about-kids-its-about-power/


42 posted on 12/02/2012 1:14:32 PM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson