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Concealed-carry in Illinois, at last
Chicago Tribune ^ | 11 dec 2012 | Steve Chapman

Posted on 12/11/2012 3:06:15 PM PST by rellimpank

Illinois is the only state in the country that does not make some provision for ordinary citizens to carry concealed firearms. But not for long. Today, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals said the state ban is unconstitutional because it violates the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

It's a surprising decision, and it may not survive Supreme Court scrutiny. But it has forced state legislators, who have 180 days to draft a new conceal-carry law, to take the idea seriously -- something they have stubbornly refused to do.

There is a strong anti-gun culture in Illinois, particularly in Chicago -- whose total ban on handgun ownership was struck down by the Supreme Court in a landmark Second Amendment case.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: banglist; rkba

1 posted on 12/11/2012 3:06:18 PM PST by rellimpank
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To: rellimpank

The next battle will be against the onerous requirements for obtaining a permit, including costs, waiting periods, training, discretionary standards of the bureaucrats granting the permits, ammunition expense, requirements for background checks anew for every purchase, even if one was done for the permit, restrictions on where to carry, what day to carry, how many to carry, taxes on weapons and ammunition, restrictions on dealers, times of the day, method of concealment, caliber, barrel length, magazine capacity, and of course, political affiliation...

The battle is not yet won, but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning...


2 posted on 12/11/2012 3:13:50 PM PST by LachlanMinnesota
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To: Lurker

Ka Ping !


3 posted on 12/11/2012 3:16:12 PM PST by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: rellimpank

The comments from the anti-self defense cult on that thread are awful, bunch of manginas having an upset cow fit, stamping their hooves in disaproval.


4 posted on 12/11/2012 3:20:10 PM PST by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: rellimpank

The decision in this case is a joy to read. Judge Postner demolishes every argument Lisa Madigan made and showed her to be the empty suit incompetent that she is.

The lower Court was ordered to find the Illinois statutes un-Constitutional, no ifs, ands, or buts. If the Legislature doesn’t act in 180 days there will be essentially NO restrictions on carrying a firearm in the State of Illnois. It would be true Constitutional carry.

So watch for the Illinois General Assembly to move at lightning speed on this. And Clueless Quinn will have to sign almost anything the send him.

In the immortal words of Flounder in Animal House: “oh boy, this is GREAT,”

L


5 posted on 12/11/2012 3:23:21 PM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: Lurker

See post 5 my friend.


6 posted on 12/11/2012 3:25:00 PM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: rellimpank

As far as I know you won’t get a concealed carry in NY no matter how nicely you ask.


7 posted on 12/11/2012 3:32:28 PM PST by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: Lurker
Here is the decision:
http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/tmp/NY10P0BS.pdf

Interesting excerpts:
The right to “bear” as distinct from the right to “keep” arms is unlikely to refer to the home. To speak of “bearing” arms within one’s home would at all times have been an awkward usage. A right to bear arms thus implies a right to carry a loaded gun outside the home.

Twenty-first century Illinois has no hostile Indians. But a Chicagoan is a good deal more likely to be attacked on a sidewalk in a rough neighborhood than in his apartment on the 35th floor of the Park Tower.

To confine the right to be armed to the home is to divorce the Second Amendment from the right of self-defense described in Heller and McDonald. It is not a property right—a right to kill a houseguest who in a fit of aesthetic fury tries to slash your copy of Norman Rockwell’s painting Santa with Elves. That is not self-defense, and this case like Heller and McDonald is just about self-defense.

Moreover, there is no reason to expect Illinois to impose minimal permit restrictions on carriage of guns outside the home, for obviously this is not a state that has a strong pro-gun culture, unlike the states that began allowing concealed carriage before Heller and MacDonald enlarged the scope of Second Amendment rights.

A person who carries a gun in public but is not well trained in the use of firearms is a menace to himself and others.

8 posted on 12/11/2012 3:34:09 PM PST by aimhigh ( Guns do not kill people. Planned Parenthood kills people.)
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To: TalBlack
As far as I know you won’t get a concealed carry in NY no matter how nicely you ask.

Or NJ

9 posted on 12/11/2012 3:38:17 PM PST by frogjerk (Obama Claus is coming to town!)
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To: aimhigh

Like I said, the decision is beautiful. And believe it or not, Illinois has a vey strong gun culture. Take a look at the number of gun makers in Illinois sometime.


10 posted on 12/11/2012 4:01:16 PM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: Lurker

Just look at how Governor Quinn’s recent attempt to impose a statewide ban on “assault weapons” was swatted down by the state legislature.


11 posted on 12/11/2012 4:16:36 PM PST by M1903A1 ("We shed all that is good and virtuous for that which is shoddy and sleazy... and call it progress")
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To: aimhigh
The medieval definitions about "keeping arms" go along with a number of rights ~ to wit, appear in court, report crimes, hold land titles, etc ~ all of these things are privileges granted to nobility and frequently to towns in their charters.

Without those rights you were NOTHING ~ Jews in France, for example, didn't get the right to "keep arms" until the 18th century.

The right to "bear arms" doesn't just mean carry them around in the definitions of that time ~ it means you could serve in an organized military unit, or in the militia, or on your own behalf. Again, this was, at that time, shorthand for a whole string of privileges that denoted rank in the recognized nobility.

French Jews could not carry arms until about the beginning of the last series of battles that made up what we call the French and Indian War. Men named "Israel" started showing up in the ranks of French soldiers!

If you wanted to know what NOT having the right to keep and bear arms was about you could talk to almost any medieval Jew anywhere on Earth.

Today, Jews all over America have the right to keep and bear arms EXCEPT IN NEW YORK CITY.

They are blind to their own servitude and low class existence.

Today is a great day of Jewish liberation in Illinois.

12 posted on 12/11/2012 4:17:40 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: rellimpank

They will decide that you can never tell how a person will turn out or what he will do. So, you can apply for a permit pay the $1,500 applicaion fee and, if you never commit a crime, you will be issued that permit 7 days after your death as certified by a licensed, union health care professional.


13 posted on 12/11/2012 4:17:45 PM PST by Random Access
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To: rellimpank
When I read about this decision, my mind immediately went to: Or what? Did they suspend the striking down of all concealed carry laws in Illinois for 180 days to give the legislature a chance to replace it with something that is compatible with the constitution, or is it yet another one of those ‘we might be forced to’ type situations, like what Romney disastrously caved to (and ultimately cost him the presidency, in my opinion) in Massachusetts?

Somehow, I doubt the 7th is gutsy enough to give the remedy the plaintiffs desired, which was striking down all unconstitutional laws, and merely threatens action if the legislature doesn't act.

Which of course, means we're talking Washington DC all over again - new laws that are almost impossible to accomplish, but might just squeak across the line of not inciting the 7th into outright action.

Message to the courts: If a law is unconstitutional, your SOLE action is to STRIKE THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAW! You have NO POWER to compel legislatures to make laws you like, only to strike down the laws they made.

You can bet that the legislature would be spurred into action if the court had actually done their job and simply made concealed carry a right until the state got around to bothering to regulate it.

14 posted on 12/11/2012 4:18:57 PM PST by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: rellimpank

This is a horrific message that the courts sent to the elite ruling class in Illinois. These commie slugs are terrified by citizens owning weapons. They saw what happened in Libya in 2011.

I know some people here hate Libya, but, boy-oh-boy, did the Libyan patriots send a message to elitist Nazis and fascists around the world. I was working with an Israeli company as a contractor when TSHF in Libya.

Nearly 70% of the army deserted after Kaddhafi ordered the Libyan army to kill Libyans. They headed home to their provinces to protect their families, taking their weapons with them. So, Kaddhafi ordered his southern mercenaries from Africa to kill the Libyan people. The Libyans exploded in rage.

Kaddhafi’s bureaucrats were shot dead in the streets. The mercenaries were hanged from lampposts across the country. The head of the Libyan army was dragged into the town square and had his brains blown out. Kaddhafi’s so-called elitist officers were hunted down and executed. Kaddhafi himself died spread-eagled on the hood of a SUV, shot by a militia member using Kaddhafi’s gold-plated semi-auto that he took from Kaddhafi’s holster.

American fascists and communists fear armed Americans because what happened in Kaddhafi’s totalitarian state could happen here.

Hanging from a lamppost does not get one a favorable mention in history books.


15 posted on 12/11/2012 4:48:13 PM PST by sergeantdave (The FBI has declared war on the Marine Corps)
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To: rellimpank
Our SAS Chicago coordinator worked long and hard. She was relentless.
16 posted on 12/11/2012 4:57:32 PM PST by basil (Second Amendment Sisters.org)
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To: rellimpank

This requirement doesn’t mean that Illinois will now be a ‘shall-issue’ state, does it?

What’s to keep them from making the requirements so onerous that hardly anyone can get a permit?


17 posted on 12/11/2012 5:19:30 PM PST by webstersII
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To: webstersII

My understanding of the ruling is that the federal court said the Illinois state legislature must enact a “shall-issue” law withing 180 days.


18 posted on 12/11/2012 6:23:40 PM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: muawiyah

Thanks for the history lesson. Many writers have commented on how, in the United States, each man considered himself a member of a society of freeholders. The left denies this, and their “progressivism” is acutally a regressivism returning to the collective rights of feudal society.


19 posted on 12/11/2012 6:24:16 PM PST by marktwain
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To: webstersII
What’s to keep them from making the requirements so onerous that hardly anyone can get a permit?

One assumes the populace won't stand for frivolous defense of rights that the majority of Illinoisans wish to exercise, the goddamn state legislature notwithstanding.

If Lisa Madigan wants to prevent CCW, let her justify her budget to do so.

20 posted on 12/11/2012 6:29:22 PM PST by IncPen (Educating Barack Obama has been the most expensive project in human history)
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To: webstersII
What’s to keep them from making the requirements so onerous that hardly anyone can get a permit?

One assumes the populace won't stand for frivolous defense of rights that the majority of Illinoisans wish to exercise, the goddamn state legislature notwithstanding.

If Lisa Madigan wants to prevent CCW, let her justify her budget to do so.

21 posted on 12/11/2012 6:29:27 PM PST by IncPen (Educating Barack Obama has been the most expensive project in human history)
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To: rellimpank

“There is a strong anti-gun culture in Illinois, particularly in Chicago...”

Hard to tell with the city’s crime statistics. Their laws make only the law-abiding vulnerable.


22 posted on 12/11/2012 6:37:56 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: sergeantdave

I like the way you thnk.


23 posted on 12/11/2012 6:43:07 PM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: ought-six

I haven’t read the details, but my understanding was they were going to issue an injunction to stop the enforcement of the concealed carry prohibitions in the law, but delayed the effective date of the injunction for 180 days to allow the legislature to pass a constitutional law, if they can.

If they choose not to, the law on the books now is not enforceable because unconstitutional.

They are not trying to force the legislature to act, as they cannot do so legally, but they are simply giving them time to correct the situation. I need to read the details of the decision and have not had time.


24 posted on 12/11/2012 8:35:09 PM PST by LachlanMinnesota
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To: Lurker

The battle is on with Rahn Emmanuel and his minions (aldermen: did anyone see Boss on Starz). We’ll be very fortunate if this thing has “legs”.


25 posted on 12/13/2012 9:01:20 AM PST by sarasota
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To: basil

If you have a ping list, please add me and thanks.


26 posted on 12/13/2012 9:05:00 AM PST by sarasota
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