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Obama Administration: We Can and Will Force Christians to Act Against Their Faith
Cybercast News Service ^ | December 29, 2012 | Terence P. Jeffrey

Posted on 12/29/2012 6:57:48 PM PST by Olog-hai

In a legal argument formally presented in federal court in the case of Hobby Lobby v. Kathleen Sebelius, the Obama administration is claiming that the First Amendment—which expressly denies the government the authority to prohibit the “free exercise” of religion—nonetheless allows it to force Christians to directly violate their religious beliefs even on a matter that involves the life and death of innocent human beings. …

The Obama administration is making a two-fold argument for why it can force Christians to act against their faith in complying with the regulation it has issued under the Obamacare law that requires virtually all health care plans to cover, without co-pay, sterilizations, contraceptives, and abortion-inducing drugs.

The first argument the administration makes against the owners of Hobby Lobby is that Americans lose their First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion when they form a corporation and engage in commerce. A person’s Christianity, the administration argues, cannot be carried out through activities he engages in through an incorporated business. … The second argument the administration makes to justify forcing Christians to act against their faith is more sweeping. Here the administration argues it can force a person to act against his religion so long as the coercion is done under the authority of a law that is neutral and generally applicable—in other words, as long as the law was not written specifically to persecute Christians as Christians, the government can use that law to persecute Christians. …

(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 666; antichristian; backoffbarry; bhofascism; democrats; govtabuse; hobbylobby; liberalfascism; moralabsolutes; obama; obamaantichristian; obamamandate; rapeofliberty; religiousfreedom; tyranny; waronliberty
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This is a huge attempt at nullifying the First Amendment. They have made laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion. They certainly cannot pretend that they are not Marxists anymore—not that they ever really denied it.
1 posted on 12/29/2012 6:57:55 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Their revolution started decades ago... when does our start?


2 posted on 12/29/2012 7:01:30 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Olog-hai

OK, but first make the Wild Muslims act against theirs then we’ll talk.


3 posted on 12/29/2012 7:02:54 PM PST by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Olog-hai

Their revolution started decades ago... when does our start?


4 posted on 12/29/2012 7:05:39 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL
The population was much smarter decades ago. As far as today's population goes, all is well and would be even better if the republicans didn't control everything except the White House

We're living among ignorant people who vote (some of them actually thought Mitt Romney was the incumbent)and think the dems are the minority party even now which is why their holy Obama cannot save America even though he wishes he could save this beautiful country which he loves so dearly (according to MSNBC and the rest of the MSM).

5 posted on 12/29/2012 7:07:16 PM PST by tsowellfan
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To: Olog-hai

I still think it’s a terrible mistake for the professional Leftwingtards to force innocent Christians to murder.


6 posted on 12/29/2012 7:07:52 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Olog-hai

Christians have not faced evil of this magnitude since the Roman Coliseum or more likely the Circus Flaminius. For the most powerful country in the world to persecute Christians will be an experience the Church has not faced in 1700 years. I hope we still have the strength and the faith for this trial. Evil is petty, foolish, and disgusting, but it is not weak. I'll be paying at least as much attention to "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one," as to the command on turning the other cheek.

7 posted on 12/29/2012 7:09:57 PM PST by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: GeronL

I want to know too.


8 posted on 12/29/2012 7:10:23 PM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Olog-hai

This is basically why Obama appointed Kathleen Sebelius as Secretary of Health. She doesn’t know a damned thing about health, but she was a notorious baby killer, a close friend of Dr. Death himself.

Their chief interest in “health care” is killing babies, controlling population, and promoting perverted sex at taxpayer expense.

And, of course, that’s why he made the appointments he did to the Supreme Court. Babykillers all.

Killing babies and engaging in bathhouse sex are the supreme rights, in their view. Not freedom of religion.


9 posted on 12/29/2012 7:13:30 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Olog-hai

10 posted on 12/29/2012 7:13:53 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Olog-hai

If they can do that they are truly more powerful than God.


11 posted on 12/29/2012 7:17:18 PM PST by null and void (Socialism: Equal parts dumb and evil, in a blender.)
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To: muawiyah

Barack 666 Obama


12 posted on 12/29/2012 7:19:53 PM PST by Rodm
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To: muawiyah

This is the mark of evil.

They are trying to make it to where you cannot do business in this country unless you provide free abortions to your employees.

This IS the Mark of The Beast.........


13 posted on 12/29/2012 7:21:21 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: Olog-hai

These commie rat-b@stards just keep on pushing.

We are either going to surrender or start pushing back.

I am not going to surrender.


14 posted on 12/29/2012 7:21:27 PM PST by 43north (BHO: 50% black, 50% white, 100% RED)
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To: Olog-hai

It’s time we say, “OK, Buckwheat, we call your bet and we raise the ante. Do you call or fold?” This is wrong, heck, this whole Bammycare thing is wrong.


15 posted on 12/29/2012 7:21:49 PM PST by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: null and void

Demons have been known to be more “powerful” than God, at least in the short term.


16 posted on 12/29/2012 7:22:08 PM PST by Fungi
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To: null and void

What about all the companies that got a pass on the “health care” bill? What makes them so special?

It should be for everyone inc Congress or no one.


17 posted on 12/29/2012 7:22:31 PM PST by oldasrocks (They should lock all of you up and only let out us properly medicated people.)
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To: muawiyah
I still think it’s a terrible mistake for the professional Leftwingtards to force innocent Christians to murder.

No.

A Serpent is always a Serpent.

That isn't by any stretch a mistake on their part.

For Christians to murder just because the State Serpent commands it is a mistake.

Unless Christians agree with Obama when he says he's more powerful than God Himself...

18 posted on 12/29/2012 7:23:08 PM PST by null and void (Socialism: Equal parts dumb and evil, in a blender.)
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To: Olog-hai

Birth control is not a religious issue. It’s a moral issue. Most Protestants use birth control.


19 posted on 12/29/2012 7:24:15 PM PST by AppyPappy (You never see a masscre at a gun show.)
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To: Olog-hai

Shove Buckwheat’s Satanic decrees up his butt. He’s desperate and looking for a way to escape the corner he’s in.


20 posted on 12/29/2012 7:24:59 PM PST by sergeantdave (The FBI has declared war on the Marine Corps)
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To: oldasrocks

*shrug* muslims are exempt.


21 posted on 12/29/2012 7:25:08 PM PST by null and void (Socialism: Equal parts dumb and evil, in a blender.)
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To: AppyPappy

Most Protestants do not oppose birth control.


22 posted on 12/29/2012 7:25:40 PM PST by AppyPappy (You never see a masscre at a gun show.)
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To: Olog-hai
RE :”Because federal judges—including Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor—have refused to grant an injunction protecting the owners of Hobby Lobby from being forced to act against their Christian faith, those owners will be subject to federal fines of up to $1.3 million per day starting Tuesday for refusing to include abortion-inducing drugs in their employee health plan.”

I don't know where this figure comes from but the O-care fines for employers are significantly less if the employer just doesn't offer ANY health insurance, one source says $3K per year. Seems like that is what they should do and tell ALL their employees why.

And that can be reduced to zero if they cut back their hours to <30 per week.

23 posted on 12/29/2012 7:25:55 PM PST by sickoflibs (Dems go for results, meaning winning. Rs go for symbolism: "We tried. We were foiled again"")
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To: Olog-hai

sopeople lose their right to free expression of religion if they form a corporation...

what about the freedom of speech? do they lose that as well?

what about right to bear arms? I’m sure a few gun lobbies and security companies would sure like to know

strangely enough, your right to free association is the fourth amendment... which would be where a corporation falls

do people lose their rights once they start associating with each other??

this ‘administration’ is staffed by the kids the short bus left behind


24 posted on 12/29/2012 7:26:05 PM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: Olog-hai

Ok fine- just so we know. Obama care is turning out to be the Mark of the Beast.

Obama may as well be honest about it.


25 posted on 12/29/2012 7:26:35 PM PST by Truth2012
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To: Fungi

*sigh*


26 posted on 12/29/2012 7:27:23 PM PST by null and void (Socialism: Equal parts dumb and evil, in a blender.)
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To: Olog-hai

I would think that most large religious organizations are set up as corporations. Does Obama’s argument mean that church corporations have no religious rights?

I wish the lame stream media would actually report on this administration’s legal arguments on the 6:00 news. A lot of Democrats would be surprised at what “their side” is arguing these days. Pipe dream, I know.


27 posted on 12/29/2012 7:27:43 PM PST by Avid Coug
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To: Olog-hai

$3K per year per employee, but they probably pay close to that in the heal care benefits anyway.


28 posted on 12/29/2012 7:28:32 PM PST by sickoflibs (Dems go for results, meaning winning. Rs go for symbolism: "We tried. We were foiled again"")
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To: GeronL

It’s starts when you back away from the keyboard and actually do something.


29 posted on 12/29/2012 7:29:40 PM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: Olog-hai; HerrBlucher; mgist; raptor22; victim soul; Isabel2010; Smokin' Joe; Michigander222; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

30 posted on 12/29/2012 7:31:02 PM PST by narses
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To: Olog-hai; HerrBlucher; mgist; raptor22; victim soul; Isabel2010; Smokin' Joe; Michigander222; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

31 posted on 12/29/2012 7:31:34 PM PST by narses
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To: Olog-hai; HerrBlucher; mgist; raptor22; victim soul; Isabel2010; Smokin' Joe; Michigander222; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

32 posted on 12/29/2012 7:32:31 PM PST by narses
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To: Truth2012; BenLurkin

“Ok fine- just so we know. Obama care is turning out to be the Mark of the Beast.

Obama may as well be honest about it.”

Obama MUST have his sacrifices to Molech.


33 posted on 12/29/2012 7:33:33 PM PST by BwanaNdege ("To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"- Voltaire)
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To: Olog-hai
RE: those pesky religious things

The progressives are going even nuttier with their Obama-is-Lincoln! mania. Here's a clue why. Obama. Obama! Mmmm mmmm mmm.

When a man confined at Fort McHenry sued for a writ of habeas corpus Chief Justice Roger Taney ordered the government to show cause why the man should not be released. Chief Justice Taney was advised that the writ of habeas corpus had been suspended. Taney issued an attachment -- law Legal seizure of property or a person. The writ ordering such a seizure -- for the commandant of Fort McHenry but the marshals were denied admission to the fort.

Taney then "issued an opinion in the case declaring that the President alone did not have the authority to suspend the writ of habeas corpus -- only Congress could do that -- and holding that [the man's] confinement was illegal. The Chief Justice, knowing that he could not enforce his order, sent a copy of it to Lincoln."

from "Civil Liberty and the Civil War: The Indianapolis Treason Trials." William Rehnquist. www.repository.law.indiana.edu.

Obama.. er, I mean Lincoln was not impressed and other victims -- mayors, police chiefs, journalists, everyone -- soon followed.

Obama.. er, I mean Lincoln asked about writ of habeas corpus: Should everything fail because that one law ". . . made in such extreme tenderness of the citizens' liberty that practically it relieves more of the guilty than of the innocent . . . [cannot] to a very limited extent be violated?" You want "the government itself go to pieces?"

So here is yet another guide for Obama to follow to handle those pesky, constitutional matters and citizens' religion-based inalienable rights -- which of course makes inalienable rights unconstitutional. Obama. Obama! Mmmm mmmm mmm. Hot damn! cry the progressives.

34 posted on 12/29/2012 7:37:25 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: AppyPappy

Well, for almost 2000 years, Christianity taught that the primary purpose of marriage was to have children, God willing. In fact, for a couple of hundred years, Protestants and Catholics both agreed that there were three purposes to marriage: 1) Children; 2) companionship; 3) avoidance of illegitimate sexual temptations.

The change came quite late, beginning with the Anglican Church. And, of course, acceptance of birth control soon led to acceptance of abortion and perversion.

But to some extent, this is beside the point, since Obamacare demands that everyone must pay for morning-after pills, which are abortificients. In other words, abortion is involved as well as contraception. And we can be pretty sure that abortions all the way up to late term will be included—as they now are under Romneycare in Massachusetts. For that matter, Obama is fond of killing babies who are born alive—he voted for it three times, and we can soon expect him to demand that we pay for it.

Not to mention killing off old people.


35 posted on 12/29/2012 7:38:06 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: null and void

No; they have authority from God and are abusing it. Such is the core of rebellion against God anyhow, going back before us humans existed.


36 posted on 12/29/2012 7:38:58 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Fungi
Uh, demons are created beings and always have and always will be subject to God Almighty, the God of Heaven and earth. Jesus showed us that. Demons ALWAYS trembled and bowed the knee when Jesus came around. They ALWAYS had to obey Him.

As with the cross of Christ, so now, God temporarily allows the devil to be active for God's greater purposes.

37 posted on 12/29/2012 7:39:52 PM PST by PapaNew
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To: Olog-hai
Let it be known amongst all true Americans, that this Regime is diabolically opposed to the founding principles, so well espoused by:

Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, John Adams, Samuel Adams, George Washington, Thomas Paine, tens of thousands of other's of their day; millions of their descendants; thru millions and millions and millions of today's patriots, tea partiers, and conservatives.

38 posted on 12/29/2012 7:40:13 PM PST by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: AppyPappy

No, it’s a religious issue when you have Christians that don’t want to be forced to sell it being forced to do so, when it goes against what they believe as a religion. And that’s aside from the state getting into any of this anyhow.


39 posted on 12/29/2012 7:41:11 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: BwanaNdege

Judges 13:1

Well... Roe V Wade will be 40 years old in 2013.


40 posted on 12/29/2012 7:42:09 PM PST by Truth2012
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To: Olog-hai

You missed the “If” dincha?


41 posted on 12/29/2012 7:42:52 PM PST by null and void (Socialism: Equal parts dumb and evil, in a blender.)
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To: null and void

I was referring to the case of “if”. The USSR did things like this long before the USA did.


42 posted on 12/29/2012 7:46:59 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

When are we going to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH? I cannot believe we just had an election. We are in the worst fiscal mess in history, we have more debt in history, executive orders are now the way to govern and he was just reelected? You cannot say we didn’t warn people. I just cannot believe this is happening in the United States of America.


43 posted on 12/29/2012 7:48:33 PM PST by The Mayor ("If you can't make them see the light, let them feel the heat" — Ronald Reagan)
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To: Olog-hai

Free the First bump.


44 posted on 12/29/2012 7:48:43 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Ban liberalism, not liberty.)
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To: null and void

You missed the reference ~ the Obots may think they force Christians to murder, but more likely some of them will be early casualties themselves.


45 posted on 12/29/2012 7:49:45 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Cicero

Amen to that. “Obamacare demands that everyone must pay for morning-after pills, which are abortificients. In other words, abortion is involved as well as contraception. And we can be pretty sure that abortions all the way up to late term will be included”.People who support Obama were shocked to find out that you could have an abortion up until birth.They kept saying “It’s a Baby”They were working the polls to have him elected.They still voted for him.If you think this is just about birth control think again or vote like the Obama people-knowing children will die.


46 posted on 12/29/2012 7:51:36 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: Olog-hai

And I know ignorant Christians who voted for Obama not concerned with this mandate. Free stuff trumped religious freedom.


47 posted on 12/29/2012 7:52:33 PM PST by RginTN
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To: Olog-hai

The EXTRA-CONSTITUTIONAL President and his minion Sonia Soda-Jerk strike.

I guess “extra-constitutional president” is sort of like, dictator???


48 posted on 12/29/2012 7:53:58 PM PST by ZULU (See video: http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-first-siege-of-vienna.html)
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To: Fungi
Remember, God is all powerful...

"[God] raised [Jesus Christ] from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And has put all things under his feet..." Eph 1:20-22.

Also remember, God has given us all power over the devil. Jesus said,

"Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you." Luke 10:19

49 posted on 12/29/2012 7:55:12 PM PST by PapaNew
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To: Red Badger
This is not the mark of the beast and I doubt we could fathom at this time
what that will actually mean when it comes.
50 posted on 12/29/2012 7:57:51 PM PST by MaxMax (Gun free zones was the invitation to gun bans)
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