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Dave Grossman: First-Person Shooter Videogames Should be Banned
January 4 | Katechon

Posted on 01/04/2013 5:43:51 PM PST by Katechon

Dave Grossman

The first juvenile mass-murder happened for the FIRST TIME in recorded human history in the late 1970s, in California. In 500 years of gun-powder combat, not once had a juvenile committed multiple homicide. We had a couple in the 1980s, and now it's out of control. So what happened?

It's Pavlog Dog, said Lt. Col. Lt. Col. Grossman: our youth is being conditioned from childhood by videogames to be "First-Person Shooters, (FPS) and to associate killing, human death and suffering with reward and pleasure.

first person shooters

Videogames are not "games"; they are mass-murder simulators, Grossman says.

Our kids are being wired from childhood by hyper-violent and realistic video games to be brainless killers, precognitively loaded to be potential murderers. And if videogames are training them to be killers, the movies and many TV shows are the propaganda machines of the gang-bangers.

In videogames, kids are being rewarded to kill, but without any of the benefits coming from the disciplinary training of the Army. And this rewarding response to killing another (virtual) human being deactivates our innate resistance to murdering.

Everyone is born with a deep resistance to killing any member of one’s own species; and this resistance is a key factor in combat.

Most participants in close combat are “frightened out of their wits,” says Grossman. But proper operant conditioning reliably influences the midbrain processing of a frightened human being.

Fire drills condition terrified school children to respond properly during a fire. Conditioning in flight simulators enables frightened pilots to respond reflexively to emergency situations.

Once the bullets start flying, combattants stop thinking with the forebrain (cerebrum) and start thinking with the primitive midbrain. The limbic system and the hypotalamus are in action while killing; whilst the rational brain is deactivated. But even the midbrain processing powerfully resists to the killing of one’s own species; it's a survival mechanism preventing a species from destroying itself.

To overcome this innate resistance to killing other human beings, the military and law enforcement communities have developped operantly conditioned devices using killing simulators in training. Turning killing into a conditionned response.

By the middle of the XXth century, the Human Resources Research Office (HumRRO) of the US Army pioneered a revolution in combat training. This paradigmatic shift would lead warriors firing at bullseye targets to warriors firing at man-shaped pop-up targets that fall when hit.


Image 1602

Brigadier General S.L.A. Marshall observed that only 15 to 20 percent of the individual riflemen in World War II fired their weapons at an exposed enemy soldier. When left to their own devices, 80 percent of the combatants appear to have been unable or unwilling to kill.

But murder simulators produced a dramatic increase in participation in killing. More effective tactical and mechanical mechanisms were developped to enable or force combatants to overcome their resistance to killing.

The application and perfection of conditioning techniques increased the rate of fire to approximately 55 percent in Korea and around 95 percent in Vietnam, says Grossman.

The military’s marksmanship training program, with its pop-up targets, constitutes an highly effective operant conditioning.

Military behaviorists found out how to overcome our innate resistance to murder; they brought way up the percentage of killers among the platoons by incorporating reactive training with humanoid pop-up silhouettes.

Now the video industry has kids playing video games for hours at a time, blasting away at humanoid targets which explode in blood and gore when you shoot them.

In First-Person Shooter videogames, you pull the trigger and the human explodes in high-def blood and gore in front of you. And you do it again and again and again, while eating chips, drinking pop and smelling your girlfriend's perfume. This reconditions the kids to be ready to pull any actual trigger on any living human. Those videogames should be BANNED, restricted to military and law enforcement training.

turn the tv off

TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: banglist; massacres; newtown; sandyhook; shooting; vanity; videogames; violence
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To: Katechon

What about the FACT that millions of people play them daily and do not kill anyone?

You DO realize FR has a sizable gamer contingent do you not?

Are we all killers in training waiting to snap?

Yes or no because you cannot have it both ways.

41 posted on 01/04/2013 6:06:48 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Katechon

Comment on Grossman from an online forum:

Wow, this was the right place to ask the question. I remembered my professor, who was absolutely brilliant, told us Marshall had been discredited. Unfortunately, my professor passed away at age 46. My initial interest was inspired by Ltc.David Grossman’s book On Killing, he states that what Marshall demonstrated was true and was true for all wars including the Civil War (15% of the men doing all the shooting and killing). He says it was true for combat pilots in WW II as well. He says this did not change until Vietnam. He suggests this was also true in the ancient world as well. Now I am not well versed on military history but the notion of only 15% of Roman soldiers doing the killing and fighting, remember, Grossman says this is true then as well, seems a bit of a stretch. But I also recognize I am far from an authority and could be wrong. I will check those sources out and your discussions are greatly appreciated.

Again, I salute you all for your extensive knowledge. This has been a big help for me. Not to nitpick, but in Grossman’s introduction he suggested a reliance in his approach to Freud and then even mentioned Alfred Kinsey both of whom to a greater or lesser degree, have been discredited. He relied a great deal on Freud throughout the book. In addition he aruges that we have been a sexually repressed society which leads to the problems associated and described in his book. I thought his argument when have been tighter if he had left out Freud, Kinsely, and discussions on sexual repression (something I don’t think any era has successfully suppressed). And, of course, he relies heavily on Marshall which, if discredited, all of the above would call into question his work. As an aside, a gun-rights activist gave me the book because Grossman teaches some sort of self defense seminar, but, in the conclusions to Grossman’s book, he makes a pitch for what could be described as gun-control through disarmament. I thought that was strange unless I misread it.

42 posted on 01/04/2013 6:07:01 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: JRandomFreeper
A question ~ was he in on the pre-planning with Menino and Biden?

This is the second complainant who seems to believe young children got hold of guns and shot each other ~ Menino is the other one, and he said he talked it over with Biden?

Not that there was some sort of conspiracy afoot or that Lanza didn't do the shooting, but was he supposed to be the shooter, or was he supposed to give the kids several firearms and turn them loose on each other?

43 posted on 01/04/2013 6:09:27 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: pennyfarmer

I understand the value problems, the denying of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the hatred against the Chosen People, the invasion of islam, the pervasion of socialism.

Nonetheless, Grossman’s point might still stand, and be quite important.

It is not mutually exclusive.

What is Ann Barnhardt saying should be the first step to resistance: TURNING OFF THE TV.

Grossman says: don’t let your kids play those games — if it’s not for training, accompanied by DISCIPLINE. Of course, those games could be awesome for the training of the warriors of the coming Civil War Deux againt the tyrannical oligarchy!!

44 posted on 01/04/2013 6:09:33 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon

I’ve experienced, first-hand, the combat conditioning that LTC Grossman refers to. However, I take issue with his extrapolation to FPS games. I made a series of very conscious decisions to get myself into the position where I finally used that “autopilot”. Once the shooting started, yes, the conditioning was there, and I was very aware of it later. It’s entirely possible he’s right regarding the conditioning effect from the FPS games, but the series of decisions that place these psychos in that very situation still have to be made. It was obvious that the Newtown shooting was planned. Aurora, CO, was planned. Columbine was planned. Most (all?) of these mass shootings are planned. Conditioning only kicks in when the lead starts flying, in my experience. Does the conditioning lead to higher body counts than would normally occur? I doubt it, but I’m sure LTC Grossman doesn’t know either.

45 posted on 01/04/2013 6:09:56 PM PST by Future Snake Eater (
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To: Little Ray

I also like video games, even FPS. I see it just as a game,
which I enjoy.

46 posted on 01/04/2013 6:10:18 PM PST by Morris70
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To: JRandomFreeper
Mebbe so, but according to Wikipedia (so we know it's true):

Biographers sought to explain McCarty's [Bonney's] subsequent descent into lawlessness by focusing on his habit of reading dime novels that romanticized crime.

And we all know dime novels are the predecessor all of FPS games, and should have been burned on the courthouse steps.

47 posted on 01/04/2013 6:11:25 PM PST by Melpomene (Proud member of the Who Dat nation.)
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To: Katechon

I was raised on Doom and Quake and I turned out fine.

48 posted on 01/04/2013 6:12:45 PM PST by isom35
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To: Katechon
What about the FACT that those FPS videogames function as MASS-MURDER TRAINING, simulator, rewiring the brain to over-come our native resistance to kill our own species?

There is no such native resistance. It's all cultural conditioning coupled with deterrence created by state-imposed punishments. Animals have been killing other animals over resources and for recreation since before they emerged from the primordial soup.

49 posted on 01/04/2013 6:13:01 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

Most of the Roman fighting was not made by individual fighters on their own, was it? indivudals were mostly integrated into mechanisms.

This stats Grossman is referring here is about riflemen, acting on their own.

Grossman clearly says, that a shooting machine operated by more than 1 individual WILL AIM FOR THE KILL AND PULL THE TRIGGER.

Not the individual on his own, the lone rifleman.

50 posted on 01/04/2013 6:13:42 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon

Perhaps it would be more effective to Ban Mass Murderers?

51 posted on 01/04/2013 6:13:57 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: Katechon
Why does someone from Thailand care about what happens in the US?

We've got this little thing called a Constitution.

In it, the Founders recognized that God Almighty Himself had given men certain rights that even governments couldn't ban.

One of those is freedom of speech and press, which today, includes video games.

The next, funny enough, is to own and bear firearms, to keep us free.

So, take your crap and shove off.


52 posted on 01/04/2013 6:14:08 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Katechon

I’m for banning people at this point.

Especially the really stupid ones...which is almost all of them.

First person shooters never did anything to anyone.

One thing I am learning through all of this is that people are demonstrating with great clarity what their greatest weakness and fear is.

Expect more attacks in the future and expect them to be better planned.

One thing people are not demostrating at all is what their strengths are.

Mankinds only defense in nature was his intelligence, and he obviously no longer has that defense.

53 posted on 01/04/2013 6:14:33 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Zhang Fei

False. Not with their own species. They are being gentle with each others in their mating and territorial rituals, competitions.

54 posted on 01/04/2013 6:15:06 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon

You are a troll. That comment proved it.

55 posted on 01/04/2013 6:16:18 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Bryanw92

I understand what you are saying, sir. And I fully agree.

However, Grossman ain’t talking about you as an individual. but about a trans-individual phenomenon. He says those FPS games should be deactivated because they act as very strong force in our society — by producing POTENTIAL killers.

It’s (para)military training without the discipline, the context, the organization.

56 posted on 01/04/2013 6:19:28 PM PST by Katechon
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To: American in Israel

Can you act on the future?

57 posted on 01/04/2013 6:19:59 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon
Not with their own species. They are being gentle with each others in their mating and territorial rituals, competitions.

You don't get out into the wild much, do you, banner?


58 posted on 01/04/2013 6:19:59 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Zhang Fei
Romans used a phalanx ~ they formed a square ~ guys on the perimeter held shields up; guys behind them poked at the enemy outside with spears. (recognize there are infinite variations on this theme, each with its special name ~ e.g. testudo)

Obviously even the Romans suffered casualties, and the phalanx formation had limits. When it broke down everybody was on the front, and they did sword chopping to who tied it then!

I don't think only 15% of the guys in a phalanx were burdened with all the combat!

59 posted on 01/04/2013 6:20:27 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Katechon
Grossman argues that videogames are producing a whole generation of potential mass killer; that the exceptions of yesterday are becoming the norms of today.

Well then, his argument fails on multiple levels.

First, these sorts of shootings are extremely rare, so even if they have increased in frequency, they are not being driven by video games, because we haven't seen an increase anywhere near proportionate to the vast increase in video game popularity.

Second, millions of young men have gone through the same "operant conditioning" as one supposedly gets in a video game when Uncle Sam taught them to be soldiers and Marines, plus many of them play First Person Shooters, yet they don't go on murder sprees.

Third, a large number of mass shootings are carried out by adults who are well past the "juvenile" age.

Fourth, the description of these games as "mass murder simulators" is sort of like saying that Battleship or Axis & Allies is a mass murder simulator. Most FPS games deal with war, and in "mass murder" shootings, nobody is shooting back. It's difficult to trust the conclusions of someone who can't even describe the medium as it actually is.

Fifth, even if we say the argument is that the games are not making the murders any more likely but simply make the murderer more effective, that's a theory, not a conclusion supported by evidence, and certainly not a reason to ban a product when millions of people will use it and never harm another human being.

It's time for us to stop blaming the actions of occult freaks and mentally ill people on people and products that had nothing to do with the crime. It's morally repugnant, and is just the 21st Century version of the whole "Dungeons & Dragons causes suicide" stupidity.

60 posted on 01/04/2013 6:20:39 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Don't worry about the cliff. We're going to all land on some rich guy's wallet.)
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