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Dave Grossman: First-Person Shooter Videogames Should be Banned
January 4 | Katechon

Posted on 01/04/2013 5:43:51 PM PST by Katechon

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To: dinodino

Asteroids....


101 posted on 01/04/2013 6:45:34 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Mr. Silverback

Movies don’t have anything do to with training to be a killer.


102 posted on 01/04/2013 6:45:38 PM PST by Katechon
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To: dinodino
What game was at fault in the late 70s—Pong?

IIRC, there was an arcade game of that period that generated a bit of a stir. It was called "Death Race".

103 posted on 01/04/2013 6:48:42 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: Katechon

http://johnjayresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/databit2012_06.pdf

It’s not just demographics - the rate of arrests for murder by perpetrators aged 15-17 dropped by 66% from 1993 to 2000, and the rate for perps aged 18-25 dropped by 40%; both rates have slowly continued to decline since.

Given that the introduction and growing popularity of, realistic looking FPS games with splattering blood EXACTLY matches the steep decline in the murder rate by people under 25, wouldn’t you agree there’s a BETTER case to be made that FPS games PREVENT murder, rather than cause it?

And keep in mind that for men under 25, right now, large amounts of FPS gaming is universal- that is, today, literally EVERY boy/young adult from the ages of 10 to 25 plays a lot of violent, bloody FPS games.


104 posted on 01/04/2013 6:48:42 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Katechon

So are you going to ever address the now several posters who have lifetines of FPS games and no real world kills? If not, why not?


105 posted on 01/04/2013 6:49:06 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: JRandomFreeper

I agree. My cats hate each other and they came from the same litter.


106 posted on 01/04/2013 6:49:12 PM PST by Absolutely Nobama (The Doomsday Clock is at 11:59:00......tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock.....)
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To: dirtboy

My brothers and I shot each other with bb guns. We had rules and are crack shots. Used heavy cordouroy jackets and football helmets.

Then when paintball came out we went almost every weekend for a. Couple of years.

I got a smoking paintball setup for my birthday two years ago and soon as my shoulder gets better it’s game on, lime Donkey Kong.


107 posted on 01/04/2013 6:49:12 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Katechon
There is no natural resistance to intraspecies killing in many species. Already pointed out: Lions, hamsters, rats, sharks, and obviously, from the results of the dead from governments in the 20th century, humans. Way before video games.

Don't forget the 19th century.

Oh... don't forget the 100 years war...

And the 1630s... What a mess of people killing people.

No video games then, either.

/johnny

108 posted on 01/04/2013 6:49:18 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Katechon
Brigadier General S.L.A. Marshall observed that only 15 to 20 percent of the individual riflemen in World War II fired their weapons at an exposed enemy soldier. When left to their own devices, 80 percent of the combatants appear to have been unable or unwilling to kill.

Sounds like he's promoting these FPS games. They would have shortened the war.

109 posted on 01/04/2013 6:49:50 PM PST by gitmo ( If your theology doesn't become your biography it's useless.)
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To: Katechon

Ahemsa is not a natural human response to anything. It’s an aberration that takes years to learn. Survival in the face of danger is inherent.


110 posted on 01/04/2013 6:49:50 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: KC_Lion

I love that game! though I might go deaf from turning the stereo up so loud.


111 posted on 01/04/2013 6:51:26 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Katechon

“Second, those FPS games are military techniques applied to transform a normal being into a brainless killer, a sociopath.”

Ummm....no. Either you’re born a sociopath or you’re not.


112 posted on 01/04/2013 6:51:27 PM PST by Absolutely Nobama (The Doomsday Clock is at 11:59:00......tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock.....)
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To: Katechon
What about the FACT that those FPS videogames function as MASS-MURDER TRAINING, simulator, rewiring the brain to over-come our native resistance to kill our own species?

Now you're presenting someone's opinion as fact, and we are not only supposed to take you seriously, we are supposed to, on a conservative website, just put aside that whole "limited government power thing.

Unbelievable.

113 posted on 01/04/2013 6:51:54 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Don't worry about the cliff. We're going to all land on some rich guy's wallet.)
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To: Norm Lenhart
So are you going to ever address the now several posters who have lifetines of FPS games and no real world kills? If not, why not?

What I want to know now is why Katcheon wants to cause more people to be murdered by banning First Person Shooters.

114 posted on 01/04/2013 6:52:07 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Katechon

A fact based on what? Its bull hockey. As someone else pointed out, millions of people play FPS yet 99.9999999% never even feel like killing in real life.


115 posted on 01/04/2013 6:54:02 PM PST by USAFJeeper (Who Dat Nation - Loving the Manning Face!)
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To: Katechon

A fact based on what? Its bull hockey. As someone else pointed out, millions of people play FPS yet 99.9999999% never even feel like killing in real life.


116 posted on 01/04/2013 6:54:17 PM PST by USAFJeeper (Who Dat Nation - Loving the Manning Face!)
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To: Katechon
without the adequate discipline provided by the Army or the Police

Cops, soldiers, and cooks. That's the 3 groups mostly in trouble on or around every military base in the world.

I speak from experience.

/johnny

117 posted on 01/04/2013 6:54:41 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Strategerist

Id guess its because a person advocating a liberal idea is a liberal.

Because nothing about his posts is conservative. But it does follow the liberal desire for death and disruption.


118 posted on 01/04/2013 6:54:50 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Absolutely Nobama
Ummm....no. Either you’re born a sociopath or you’re not.

While there's a big genetic component, the best way to create a sociopath is horrific, continuous child abuse at a young age.

And there's also a pattern of a lot of serial killers having had a severe head injury when they were young, as well.

119 posted on 01/04/2013 6:55:16 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Katechon

Does this same guy believe Mario Karts causes traffic accidents?


120 posted on 01/04/2013 6:57:24 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Katechon
1. The pop-up silhouette training you refer to as a "murder simulator" existed well before the late seventies.

2. If the use of "murder simulators" began with the generation of warriors who fought in Korea, why did it take until the late Seventies for the murder sprees to start?

3. If "the Army and the Police" were using pop-up silhouettes, why were kids who were not able to get access to that training killing people in the late Seventies?

4. Why weren't any of these cops and soldiers conditioned by "murder simulators" going on shooting sprees in the late Seventies.

5. You claim to be in Thailand. As I understand it, Thailand has had one major school shooting, and it was just a few years ago. Is there a ban on FPS video games? If not, why are there shootings here and not there? Same thing in Israel, which went 34 years between school shootings.

121 posted on 01/04/2013 6:59:31 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Don't worry about the cliff. We're going to all land on some rich guy's wallet.)
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To: thackney

I played Xenodaga and tried to destroy reality once.... But I settled for making clean water in Fallout 3 instead.

Of course the hooker in New Vegas was kinda cool...


122 posted on 01/04/2013 7:00:22 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: JRandomFreeper

Mr. Bonney was on the correct side of the law. The Murphy Dolan gang were the ones who should have been hunted down like dogs.


123 posted on 01/04/2013 7:01:35 PM PST by sean327 (God created all men equal, then some become Marines!)
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To: Norm Lenhart

I played the text-only Avalon Hill “B-1 Nuclear Bomber” on my super awesome cassette drive hooked up to my sweet Atari 400.

I have not been able to live out my fantasies of nuking a variety of Soviet cities.


124 posted on 01/04/2013 7:02:15 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Mr. Silverback
Is there a ban on FPS video games?

In Thailand? One of the homes of blackmarket intellectual property?

Sure. On paper. But the bosses and the gangs aren't going to put up with that. If someone insisted, they might have an accident.

/johnny

125 posted on 01/04/2013 7:04:32 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Strategerist

You are REALLY old school!

I started with Night Driver on the 2600. The Arcade game Tempest took most of my teenage money and I have been a drooling adolescent every since ;)

Played Centepede on a Trash80 once though...


126 posted on 01/04/2013 7:05:06 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: backwoods-engineer

Exactly.

To make the same point, I ask one simple question:

How can one defend the 2Nd Amendment and in the same breath condemn the 1St?

This is exactly what the liberal press and other libs do, only in reverse.

They condemn the 2Nd while defending the 1St.

This country has become the Ship of Fools.


127 posted on 01/04/2013 7:06:15 PM PST by old curmudgeon
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To: dirtboy
I did all kinds of first-person shooting of my friends with my toy guns long before video games

See this old TV commercial, I actually remember seeing this as a kid.

When Toys Were Toys And Boys Were Boys

I'd say a culture that actually encourages the horrific murder of infants has much more to worry about than video games... (That said, I do not like those games but don't support banning them)

128 posted on 01/04/2013 7:06:28 PM PST by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

I’ve been waiting for him to address Hentai and tentacle porn games. Japan has no monopoly on those...


129 posted on 01/04/2013 7:07:01 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: sean327
Tell it to Gov. Wallace.

/johnny

130 posted on 01/04/2013 7:07:24 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Strategerist

Exactly right, to the best of my knowledge. Look at Hitler and the way his father Alois treated him and look at what he became.

Head injuries ? Well, there was the Chris Benoit incident....


131 posted on 01/04/2013 7:07:24 PM PST by Absolutely Nobama (The Doomsday Clock is at 11:59:00......tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock.....)
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To: Norm Lenhart
tentacle

I know where that is going.

I gave up calamari because I saw one of those.

/johnny

132 posted on 01/04/2013 7:09:18 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

They kinda make FPS games look like My little pony by comparison, don’t they?

But he seems OK with them. Hasn’t commented on FREAKING RAPE SIMS that flood the Asian market...

I wonder why?


133 posted on 01/04/2013 7:11:30 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Bobalu
I'd say a culture that actually encourages the horrific murder of infants has much more to worry about than video games.

Amen. How many Einsteins, how many George Washington Carvers have been killed while still in the womb? We (as a nation) have killed the blessings that God sent us.

/johnny

134 posted on 01/04/2013 7:12:37 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: old curmudgeon

I forgot to add to my post:

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.


135 posted on 01/04/2013 7:14:14 PM PST by old curmudgeon
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To: JRandomFreeper

Abortion is fine. Just don’t play Call of Duty. That would be wrong.


136 posted on 01/04/2013 7:14:36 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: C210N
If we are to ban anything, it should be a 1st amendment restriction on the press to publicize the name of any mass shooter. They are intent on suicide, and know their key to fame is in the number of killed before they themselves are killed and the enemedia’s insistence on spreading their name. They want their name to live in infamy, towering above the previous mass murderer’s count

AMEN

Obviously, you've heard a Grossman seminar or two.

He refuses to name those evil minions, preferring to remember their victims while letting the perpetrators fade into obscurity.

GROSSMAN IS THE REAL DEAL!!!

137 posted on 01/04/2013 7:17:09 PM PST by lightman (If the Patriarchate of the East held a state like the Vatican I would apply for political asylum.)
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To: Norm Lenhart
It's gotten very quiet.... I expect the blowback was more than it or it's handlers expected.

Maybe we aren't as divided as they expected.

/johnny

138 posted on 01/04/2013 7:18:27 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: All

Seems like something is missing...

Like the troll who left without ever answering a simple question.


139 posted on 01/04/2013 7:19:01 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Katechon
No they are not rare

Shootings where a teen kills a large number of people (more than two) with a firearm are indeed rare by any measure. But they are even more rare when one considers your premise that they are driven by video games. For example, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare sold 13 million copies, not counting piracy. If we could tie even 13 mass shootings to it, that would mean it was less than a 1 in a million risk. Can you point to 13 mass shootings that have occurred since 2007 and prove that this game was a major factor in them? Unlikely, and that's just one game. Halo 3 sold 11 million.

It's true, as you say, that Grossman is not only talking about mass shootings in schools. But what's foolish is that you're taking a group of people (urban gang kids) with pretty much every single pro-criminal indicator in their life you could ever come up with-- poverty, poor education, absent fathers, fathers and older siblings in the prison system, drug use in their immediate environment, glorification of gang and drug activity in their musical culture, welfare culture, etc.--and blaming their behavior on a game that is also played by legions of non-gang kids who don't have any of those indicators and never kill anyone.

If you really think that the violence in the black community is being caused by video games instead of liberal policies and lack of father figures, you need to explain why the kids without those problems are also not killing people. You need to explain, for instance, why a Boy Scout troop in my area has an annual cabin campout where they spend the whole weekend playing these games, and not a single one of any color has been in trouble with the law, much less shot another person. You need to explain why Chicago has twice as many firearm murders as Houston despite being the same size and racial mix...did Halo 3 and Call of Duty sell twice as many copies in Chicago?

140 posted on 01/04/2013 7:21:21 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Don't worry about the cliff. We're going to all land on some rich guy's wallet.)
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To: Bryanw92
"If you stop letting boys be boys, they will store up all their energy and it will be released explosively. Look at how feminine these young adult shooters look. That’s what’s wrong with them."

At first blush some might think you're crazy.. But I didn't, and you're onto something. I have been ranting for years how the only 'father figures' boys have are females; At home, in the schools and in daycare. It all boils down to the fact that we are VIOLATING GOD'S PLAN FOR MANKIND and it all started with a bunch of progressive liberal man-hater lesbians in the 1960's who decided to convince American women to abandon their children for their careers. The sneaky progressive liberal plot to shatter the American family unit succeeded and we've been paying the price ever since.

141 posted on 01/04/2013 7:21:36 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: JRandomFreeper

OK thats twice on one thread we are on the same thought.

Are you sure you aren’t my other personality? Cuz I got a few...;) Do not...DO TOO!!!


142 posted on 01/04/2013 7:22:13 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Norm Lenhart
Simple innate superiority of cooks everywhere. We have to run a few seconds ahead of the thoughts of the crowd.

It's a quantum thing.

/johnny

143 posted on 01/04/2013 7:28:36 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Obviously, since the comparaison comes from the function of the brain, we need to compare intra-species — not violence, but murder — among mamalians only.

And Grossman was not talking about war machines, but about individual massacres, and about the reluctance of individual riflemen to aim to kill.

So what’s your point about the 19th century or the 100 years war?


144 posted on 01/04/2013 7:29:57 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Norm Lenhart
Seems like something is missing...

Like the troll who left without ever answering a simple question.

He isn't going to either. He stepped into a maelstrom of righteous slapdown because his s*#t is weak. Now comes backpedalling and silence.

145 posted on 01/04/2013 7:31:36 PM PST by TADSLOS (I took extra credit at the School of Hard Knocks)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Lol, indeed: every villages and cities in Thailand is crowded with internet cafés inhabited by gamers.


146 posted on 01/04/2013 7:32:54 PM PST by Katechon
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To: TADSLOS

I left only a while ; had some stuff to do. I did not left.


147 posted on 01/04/2013 7:34:20 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon; sten

Let’s say these “natural born killers” each kill one person. To keep the math easy, let’s assume that they all kill people who aren’t themselves natural born killers.

In a population of approximately 315 million, that would be 12,600,000 murders. Now, they wouldn’t do that all at once, so let’s say that they commit them over a 20 year period and (again, to keep the math simple) there aren’t any murders before or after the 20 year period.

That’s 630,000 murders per year. Let’s be really generous and cut it in half. 315,000 per year.

There are well less than 20,000 murders in the United States every year. Your guy appears to be off by hundreds of thousands of murderers no matter how we slice this.

If 4% of Americans are natural born killers, they ain’t killing anyone. And that’s BEFORE we factor in this silly video game theory. Maybe they’re too busy playing Halo 4 to kill anyone.


148 posted on 01/04/2013 7:34:57 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Don't worry about the cliff. We're going to all land on some rich guy's wallet.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Yea well the service sucks. I’ve been waiting weeks now and no sammich!

Probably full of calimari anyway...;)


149 posted on 01/04/2013 7:35:16 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Katechon

Good. Answer the question.


150 posted on 01/04/2013 7:36:10 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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