Posted on 01/04/2013 5:43:51 PM PST by Katechon
It’s not about THINKING about killing. Calm down and re-read the head-thread: it’s about BEHAVIORAL CONDITIONNING:
— STIMULUS: ANSWER.
Ok........would not KILLING be "Behavioral Conditioning" for.....gee, I don't know MORE KILLING?
So, can you now answer my question posed twice in previous posts?
If not, just say it is about "feeling good." ie there has to be a cause for the affect. Something/someone has to take the blame for the deaths of 20 school children; so it is evil guns, medication, FPS games....what have you. The real culprit, the killer committed suicide and therefore is not around for the public to vent its wrath at.
But, it "feels good" to find a scapegoat and make it the "cause" therefore we can easily work to eliminate this cause and the innocent bystanders' rights be damned.
If it isn't about feeling good....then respond - it is about control. Situations like Columbine and Sandy Hook make you and others like you feel powerless and without control. By "doing something" and taking "decisive action" to "fix" the problem it puts you back in "control" and rebuilds your ego. We identified the problem as video games, assault rifles, and high capacity socket wrenches and are taking control of the situation and the problem is solved.
Any which way, don't sit here and try to pawn off some BS about a video game made me do it and we NEED to ban them. Because in the end sick people will still do sick things.
Further, don't insult everyone by trying to say you are a conservative and not the enemy when you are trying to infringe upon everyone else for the actions of one individual.........NeWs FlAsH - that is NOT a conservative response.
Yup. Reality is a bitch when it goes against the theory.
Yes, I remember indeed. It was about the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_High_School_shooting
Michael Corneal shot 8 times and hit 8 times. Five of them head shots. Yet the boy had never shot a real firearm in his life (except, IIRC, a few hours of training).
But he was a master at video game. He shot only once at each target. Which, he says, is highly weird from a debutant.
In the FPS videogame he was playing, players were rewarded for headshots.
Grossman ain’t a pacifist; he’s a warrior, a ‘sheepdog.’ And he certaintly does not want Americans to be disarmed. Far from it.
The good thing about this discussion is the practice for when they start the ban calls on everything rapid fire.
As to your questions...Heh...fat chance of an answer. but then you already know that ;)
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. I didn't know that The LORD equaled satan in Genesis Chapter 4.
Please stop posting nonsense on FR.
He advocates an unproven theory. Sheepdog is right. He can’t see a damn thing.
How many? Over what time period?
Define it. Then we can compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
I'm less worried about someone else usurping the word 'shooting' than I am about you, here on FR, trying to usurp the word massacre.
Because you linked that with individual shootings of gang bangers in communist controlled cities in America, like Chicago.
/johnny
>>Animals have been killing other animals over resources and for recreation since before they emerged from the primordial soup.
And humans were pretty darn good at it long before FPS videogames and auto-loading rifles with box magazines. Just ask the adversaries of Ghengis Khan or Julius Caesar, for some good historical examples.
Did the theory involve the movie “Toys” by any chance? Or the Last Starfighter? And then extrapolate to ridiculous extremes?
“I’m stating in 100% truthfulness and honesty I have killed people.....without the assistance of a video game. Where do I fit into your equation? If something like a First Person Shooter GAME will “make” someone kill, wouldn’t First Person Shooting REALITY make them all the more worse?”
That’s a fascinating question. I think Grossman would ask “in which context”? Military? Then you received the discipline; you know why you did it; and you are being recompensed for it: parades, medales, honour.
Or was it police duty? Or self-defense? Or as a civilian militant during a civil war?
The basic difference with FPS videogames is that one associates killing with reward and pleasure, without any disciplinary and larger context.
Is that so in the military and the police? I don’t think so. It’s about protecting the ‘sheep’ from the ‘wolves’ — much more than raking points, while smelling your girlfriend perfume and drinking soda pop with your buddies.
I don't expect to receive a logical answer....just more nonsense. But like you say, it is good practice to see what nonsensical approaches they will take.
Also, did his video game experience include a recoil simulator? Or a built in Adrenaline pump?
Because actually killing someone with a gun involves both. And it’s hard to train realistically without a big dose of both.
Funny that when confronted with facts from a man that knows what he’s talking about from real life experience, our friend just can’t seem to theorize his way around it huh?
Glad you spoke up on this. Because he can’t easily explain you away.
Again, the point here is about the killing perpetrated by an individual, not as part of a larger war machine. That’s why he gave the example of the lone rifleman. When many are required to manage a piece of artillery, they WILL aim to kill. Not so the rifleman, said Grossman prior to the conditionning of the pop-up humanoid silhouettes.
the response is of reward and pleasure. And the act if repeated thousands of times, several hours per weeks, for years.
I’ve said many rabbis hold Cain to be the son of satan; I did not say it was written in the Bible. What is wrong with you?
That's not generally how that works here in the US. Sure, where you are, it's all a great big group thing.
Here in the States, where I've gone days without seeing another human, and living 16 kilometers from the nearest neighbor, things are different.
Most mass killers (I'll define as over 3 shot or killed, on the same killing field, within one engagement) are considered 'loners', without girlfriends or buddies.
Your values are not my values. Your situation is not my situation. Your environment is not my environment.
To attempt to dictate to me that I give up my rights, as affirmed by the Constitution, is laughable.
Grossman's science isn't science.
He's drawn a conclusion without data that can be verified.
You compound that error by cultural mis-application of your experiences to a nation you know nothing about.
/johnny
So how does he target a physical gun weighing 10 pounds while experiencing a full blown adreneline rush that makes you shake violently?
Certainly a first time killer with no serious experience in real firearms cannot credit his physical control of a physical thing that weighs pounds, under an adreneline rush and a mobile scenario, to the sedentary activity of sitting on a couch pushing buttons .
Because that is what your saying. A virtual mental experience can PHYSICALLY condition a person. I want to know how such is medically possible.
Tin and yarn are of little recompense for human life. Killing for the sake of being "honored" in the name of parades, medals, and "honour" would be no different than killing in the name of "high score" on a video game. Do not seek reward amongst men.
Is that so in the military and the police? I don’t think so. So you don't think there is "reward and pleasure" in avenging the death of a comrade?
The basic difference with FPS videogames is that one associates killing with reward and pleasure, without any disciplinary and larger context
How do you know? What about the college student that uses video games as stress release to give his mind something unimportant to focus on for a set period of time so he can get back studying. Would this not be "discipline?" What about FPS games/scenarios used by the military that show cause/effect on actions in different scenarios?
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Where do I fit into your equation? If something like a First Person Shooter GAME will “make” someone kill, wouldn’t First Person Shooting REALITY make them all the more worse?”
That’s a fascinating question.
And one that appears to have not been asked prior to Grossman's [and your acceptance] determination that video games should be banned. So how far down the rabbit hole shall we go? How many must lose their liberties before those questions are asked? If you can ban the video game because of what it may do, then certainly you could ban me for what I've already shown I can and will do? Why does it matter the circumstances of military, police, self-defense?
It didn't matter for the gamer that had done nothing more than play a video game. Your logic should hold true for the actual killer. If a video game corrupts one to kill, then it isn't that hard to believe killing will corrupt one to kill more. So, who is going to be responsible for making the determination of what/who should be banned next?
Beyond that is determining who the unfortunate soul that will be sent to "ban" me.......after all, I've already proven myself capability of killing for real.
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