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Dave Grossman: First-Person Shooter Videogames Should be Banned
January 4 | Katechon

Posted on 01/04/2013 5:43:51 PM PST by Katechon

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To: JRandomFreeper

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_5blaQLJWg

Must be a hollywood SFX movie. We were assured this does not happen.

Ol’ Jaques will be shocked to learn that Sharks have a natural resistance to killing their own kind. Like Lions.


251 posted on 01/04/2013 9:42:54 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Katechon
Animals with antlers and horns slam together in a relatively harmless head-to-head fashion,

I just saw that. Next time you are in Canada, ask if anyone has seen moose horns attached to skeletons, locked in battle to the death. I've seen those when I was in Alaska.

And bovine bulls? I had to take one to slaughter because the crazy angus broke his hip when the 3 of them were slugging it out. I shared a pasture with 3 bulls for about a year. Then there were 2.

Your Disney view of the world doesn't work.

Not for mammals, not for birds (watch chickens, sometime, for a year or two), not fish, certainly not for reptiles.

/johnny

252 posted on 01/04/2013 9:45:06 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: tang-soo

Thanks tang-soo. I fear however you are being a bit harsh on the sheeps (abject?). Sheeps are sheeps; and some of them are awesome as sheeps.

“I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin’s egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. “
— D. G.


253 posted on 01/04/2013 9:46:05 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Repeat Offender

I never “tried” “to refute Scripture.”

I was just quoting rabbis saying Cain was the son of satan. I never argued it was true. It was not the point nor the context; the context was the reality of evil in this world.


254 posted on 01/04/2013 9:48:58 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon
FPS deactivate the resistance to killings one human that has been informed since the Ten Commandments

FPS can't de-activate something that was never activated.

Communists have pushed to keep the Ten Commandments away from people that turn into mass murderers. They reap what they sow.

If they aren't being taught the 10 commandments, there's nothing there to de-activate.

Very bad logic and form. You lose face.

/johnny

255 posted on 01/04/2013 9:50:33 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Again, those are not ‘my’ “views,” but Grossman’s.


256 posted on 01/04/2013 9:51:51 PM PST by Katechon
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To: JRandomFreeper

Come on. I know the socialists throw God away, as do the muslims.

But that does not mean there are powerful cultural forces that inhibits us to kill other humans.


257 posted on 01/04/2013 9:53:45 PM PST by Katechon
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To: JRandomFreeper

does not mean there are no* powerful cultural forces that inhibits us to kill other humans — there are: such as the Ten Commandments. Among other codes.


258 posted on 01/04/2013 9:56:31 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Norm Lenhart

Grossman was refering to our midbrain, hence to MAMMALIEN. Are sharks mammalien? No. So your point is moot.


259 posted on 01/04/2013 9:58:26 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon
Again, those are not ‘my’ “views,” but Grossman’s.

Then why do you attempt to support them? Once again. I must say, you lose face.

/johnny

260 posted on 01/04/2013 9:59:04 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

I’ve explained by playing Grossman’s advocate in order to discuss his thesis — that I find interesting.


261 posted on 01/04/2013 10:00:36 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon
Regarding the “ ‘reward and pleasure’ in avenging the death of a comrade.” Is it not secondary? Isn’t the application of Justice the primary force in play here? I don’t know, I’m asking.

That is my point all along. It depends on the individual. Some joined the police or military to make their family proud and uphold tradition, some for college money, some for glory, some to travel, some for the hopes of being in combat to 'see what it is like,' and others for God and Country.

I will not reveal further the context (which many of the posters I pinged previously already knew) in which I was speaking.

What I do know is that the first time I killed someone it was three someones......well, there were five; I shot two, my buddy shot two and we both shot the guy in the middle. I dumped a 30 rd mag (loaded with 28 rds) and he dumped a 100rd belt.

God and Country were not on are minds when we high-fived each other and were shouting obscenities at our now dead opponents. We had "won." Even with several years of hindsight behind me, had I been asked what that "winning" meant, I could not have, and still cannot define what it meant. It was time to kill and we did. We were both alive. No video game, hunting trip, skydiving, fast driving, drinking binge etc could ever match that adrenaline.

But it didn't stop with just those 5.......there were plenty more after, and in that it was routine. I don't want to say the rest were "easier" because the first ones were not hard.....I guess 'less fanfare' would be more applicable. It was time to kill or it was not time to kill. I do not ever remember thinking about God, or Country, or family, or anything other than it is time to kill and I need to keep as many of us alive as possible. Your mind sort of starts to go into hyper drive....less important items [at the time] get pushed out and you hone in on the task at hand the upcoming ones in front of you.

Each person reacts different. Some people may feel remorse or conflicted after killing, some indifferent, and others satisfied and joyful - trust me on that one. It was the Marine Corps Birthday and we started singing the Marine's Hymn while shooting people. Some where joyful at the time and later felt remorse.

I feel remorse is better left for things you have done that were wrong. Someone may say they are going to do this or that, but until it is time to look at your opponent and remove his life from him, you have no idea what you are going to actually do. There is no blanket application or one-size-fits-all approach.

So if it is okay to ban video games for what they may trigger someone to do.....than it would stand to reason it is okay to ban someone for something they've shown they can and will do - hint: it's why we execute or lock up murderers.

But when you start fear mongering and trying to prevent actions before they occur and resort to thought police action you are on dangerous ground. Especially since, I am a loving devoted father to my children, I attend church regularly, and I help little old ladies cross the road [literally]. Nothing can 'make' you do anything. We all have a choice and it is what we do with it that matters - that's the beauty of liberty.

So, rather than ban inanimate objects for what the may cause people to want to do, or ban people for what they have a propensity to do........lets just stick with enforcing the laws we have and prosecuting people for ACTUAL crimes rather than thought crimes.

262 posted on 01/04/2013 10:01:20 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Katechon
Lions are mammalian, or so I'm told. I know my catz have nipples, but I've never actually personally examined a lion.

Another weak argument.

Male lions regularly kill lion cubs when they take over a pride.

/johnny

263 posted on 01/04/2013 10:01:53 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Katechon
does not mean there are no* powerful cultural forces that inhibits us to kill other humans — there are: such as the Ten Commandments. Among other codes.

Those codes must be taught, by example.

Master to student.

Grandfather to grandson.

Where those codes are not taught, terror reigns.

Your logic, once again, fails.

Perhaps if you talk to your grandparent, or an uncle, he can explain it to you.

/johnny

264 posted on 01/04/2013 10:04:56 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Repeat Offender
I will not reveal further the context should say "will NOW". It is 1am....sue me.
265 posted on 01/04/2013 10:04:56 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Repeat Offender

” Some people may feel remorse or conflicted after killing, some indifferent, and others satisfied and joyful - trust me on that one. It was the Marine Corps Birthday and we started singing the Marine’s Hymn while shooting people. Some where joyful at the time and later felt remorse.”

That’s fascinating. Grossman said that all the warriors he met said to him they felt exhilaration after killing. And some of them felt guilt not about having killed, but about having felt that incredible exhilaration.

This is very natural, says Grossman, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Ozno7HMGE


266 posted on 01/04/2013 10:08:05 PM PST by Katechon
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To: JRandomFreeper

“Those codes must be taught, by example.

Master to student.

Grandfather to grandson.

Where those codes are not taught, terror reigns.

Your logic, once again, fails.”

I don’t see how the importance of teaching makes my ‘logic’ fail, how it makes irrelevant the hypothesis that there are cultural forces aimed to prevent us from murdering another human beings.


267 posted on 01/04/2013 10:11:08 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Repeat Offender

“But when you start fear mongering and trying to prevent actions before they occur and resort to thought police action you are on dangerous ground. Especially since, I am a loving devoted father to my children, I attend church regularly, and I help little old ladies cross the road [literally]. Nothing can ‘make’ you do anything. We all have a choice and it is what we do with it that matters - that’s the beauty of liberty.”

Amen.

And I fully on “thought crime” and the obscenity of some of the forms of preventive warfare and policing, as if we could act on the future with prescient knowledge.

But suppose for the sake of argument that Grossman is right, that it is true that our kids are being wired from childhood by hyper-violent and realistic FPS videogames to be heartless killers. Shouldn’t we do something about this?


268 posted on 01/04/2013 10:18:02 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon
makes irrelevant the hypothesis that there are cultural forces aimed to prevent us from murdering another human beings

Because, if those things are not taught, there is no cultural force.

Murder results.

/johnny

269 posted on 01/04/2013 10:19:58 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Katechon
I do not ever remember thinking about God,

I must clarify this statement.

When we were shooting He was not consciously on my mind [of course He was there all the same].

There was a kind of lull in the fighting as we were getting ready to advance and several radio calls went out for cas' evacs because several of our guys were hit. One of my guys was taking this kind of hard.....and I took that opportunity to Witness to him by reading Psalm 23. It was probably the first time I truly Witnessed to someone.

Within a few moments we were again shooting.

270 posted on 01/04/2013 10:21:45 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Katechon
But suppose for the sake of argument that Grossman is right,

No, I will not accept false for true, or blue for yellow.

Your children will be fine if you teach them, and raise them right.

Besides, they won't have time for video games or television until they have their own apartment, if you are a decent parent. There are always things to do.

/johnny

271 posted on 01/04/2013 10:25:25 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

of course. but again, I don’t see how this neglects the reality of those cultural forces.


272 posted on 01/04/2013 10:25:37 PM PST by Katechon
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To: JRandomFreeper

I understand. So you’re saying: don’t need to ban those FPS games, just take care of your own childs properly.


273 posted on 01/04/2013 10:27:07 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon

No. Because you cannot prosecute a thoughtcrime based on potentialities in a free society.

We KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt that people die in alcohol induced swimming accidents. Should we ban alcohol or swimming or restrict access to either because of a lack of personal responsibility?

Remember. We KNOW that people get drunk and drown. Drinking and swimming are personal ‘choices’. One has to actively choose to drink and swim.

Alcohol is shown in ‘some’ to result in violent and reckless behavior.

In a free society, which of the three should be ‘banned’, prohibited or ‘reeducated’?

Answer? None. Because without the ability to choose reckless behavior with potentially dangerous substances, there is no true freedom.

Now id the man drowns, it’s his fault. If a man kills, it is his choice. He can choose to drink. He can choose to shoot. And in a free society he will be held to the consequence of his actions.

But to deny him the ability to choose, right or wrongly, it the picture of totalitarianism.

Laws exist because people choose wrongly. They do NOT stop anyone determined. Nor do they PROGRAM.

Likewise a Vidgame does not start anyone off on a killing spree. Nor train them. It is their free will that results in their action.

So do we go totalitarian and ban free will, the real cause of every human action?


274 posted on 01/04/2013 10:29:16 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Repeat Offender
That's a beautiful scene sir. Thank you for sharing it with us, tonight.


275 posted on 01/04/2013 10:30:54 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon
There is no reality of those cultural forces unless they are taught.

Do you feel the cultural force to abandon unwanted children in trash-heaps outside of Rome? No.

Because that's not taught now.

Let me suggest some reading for you. A philosopher poet that understood life, death, senseless murder, war, and people.

Next post for the sake of clarity.

/johnny

276 posted on 01/04/2013 10:31:40 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Katechon

“Gods of the Copybook Headings”

Rudyard Kipling

AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “Stick to the Devil you know.”

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “The Wages of Sin is Death.”

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “If you don’t work you die.”

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!


277 posted on 01/04/2013 10:33:59 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Norm Lenhart

” Vidgame does not start anyone off on a killing spree. Nor train them.”

Well Grossman is pretty convinced it does train ‘em; it functions as a mass-murder simulator.

Kids are learning to KILL without any safeguard.

They associate killing with pleasure and rewards. They are learning to associate murders with their own pleasure.


278 posted on 01/04/2013 10:36:17 PM PST by Katechon
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To: JRandomFreeper

Thank you; I’ll read it quietly tomorrow morning. Many thanks.


279 posted on 01/04/2013 10:38:11 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon

Then again, please provide us with the documented body count that shows millions dead.

That’s all. Because without it, the experimental proof of his assertion fails. And he has had over 30 years to find that evidence.


280 posted on 01/04/2013 10:39:39 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Katechon
But suppose for the sake of argument that Grossman is right, that it is true that our kids are being wired from childhood by hyper-violent and realistic FPS videogames to be heartless killers. Shouldn’t we do something about this?

I cannot suppose Grossman is correct for the sake of argument because from first hand knowledge I KNOW him to be wrong (by the scientific method that would be my hypothesis)......as in after four combat tours, beyond doubt I KNOW him to be wrong. Until he has first hand accounts of his own (or if he has them, conveys them) to refute my hypothesis, he could not be right. Beyond that, there is almost no way to "control" within the study because all of us come from different backgrounds and experiences and respond to stimuli differently. So, all we would be doing is arbitrarily banning something based on someone's belief. What if I believe wearing bluejeans makes a person violent?

Even if we were able to find some corollary where we could find common ground......"doing something about this" would still be the anti-thesis to liberty and punishing the whole because of the one. 'It is better that 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man suffer.'

By that logic that "something must be done," we could rationalize that according to crime statistics a certain race makes up 13% of the population yet commits 65% of the violent crime. It is integrated culturally "hard-wired" if you will, through music, television, and customs passed through generations

ergo - "doing something" would mean we would be justified in detaining or exterminating an entire segment of the population because of the actions of a few.

I think you and I could agree that this would be a gross infringement of liberty and justice. However, under Grossman's theory we would be justified and correct.

Even without taking it to the extreme of rounding up people, when would it be time to look at how television, murder mysteries, hell even playing "Risk," or "Clue" affects people?

Who would be responsible for deciding this? Would society vote on it? Would a judge decide? What would the penalties be for violating it? If Person A made a bootleg video game and Person B played it and then coincidentally murdered someone, would Person A be an accessory to murder?

When you justify one thought crime, you can justify them all. All that matters is who deems what to be a thought crime at any given time.

281 posted on 01/04/2013 10:40:14 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Norm Lenhart

Are you against restricting porn movies to children?

Grossman is for the same thing as per FPS games. No kids should be allowed, no more than they should be allowed to watch porn or some ultra-violent movies.

Are you against age-restrictions in movie theaters?


282 posted on 01/04/2013 10:40:33 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Repeat Offender

What about porn? Is restricting porn to our children a restriction to liberties? Of course it is. But we do it, and we enforce it, because of the nefarious effects porn would have on them kids.


283 posted on 01/04/2013 10:46:31 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon

I am Pro parental responsibility.

I personally think age restrictions should be left to parents. And if a parent is so screwed up as to let their kids view outright pornography, then that is an entirely different issue. But that is not this issue. Nor is it remotely related to this one.

This issue demands that your theory be backed up with actual evidence, IE dead bodies numbering in the millions.

Again. This theory is easy to document and verify. Where is that documentation? Where are the dead bodies? Where are the lillions of gamers in prison cells charged with murder?

If Videogames train kids to murder they are damn ineffective.


284 posted on 01/04/2013 10:47:01 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Norm Lenhart

Most of the time, the conditioning, the learning, stays only as potential; it does actualize only very, very rarely.

But juveniles committing multiple murders are very new in the history of the world. It began in the last decades only, according to Grossman.

Obviously, Grossman expects this tendency to explode, more massacres (multiple homicide) perpetrated by juveniles to come. And a general culture where murdering becomes almost as normal as sodomy and adultery.


285 posted on 01/04/2013 10:56:31 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon
Are you against restricting porn movies to children? Grossman is for the same thing as per FPS games.

The title of this thread refutes you. Your own thread title. It isn't should be banned for children. It is "Should be banned".

You are dishonest. Once again, you lose face.

After so much failure, perhaps you should seek some local guidance. Perhaps some old guy with a cane.

/johnny

286 posted on 01/04/2013 10:57:02 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Katechon
What about porn? Is restricting porn to our children a restriction to liberties? Of course it is. But we do it, and we enforce it, because of the nefarious effects porn would have on them kids.

Children are not of the age of majority, and there is demonstrable proof of its harmful to children. So, it is not a restriction of liberties to prevent the exploitation of minor children. Secondly pornography is not sold to children it is age restricted, as are violent movies, alcohol, firearms, tobacco, the lottery, and yes even video games.

Certain things society has deemed under no circumstances can a minor be exposed to certain thing - such as pornography because it has demonstrable negative impacts on children. Others, with parental consent - such as video games and movies children can be exposed to it. As the other poster mentioned, where are the statistics demonstrating FPS games = mass murder to the extent they need to be banned?

Porn, the lottery, tobacco, firearms, etc are not outright banned. While you or I may find many of these things detestable, it is not for me to ban others from them. Now, when my perceived "right" or liberty to do something infringes on the rights of someone else, I know longer have that right........it's why the Supreme Court has routinely held "fighting words" are not "Free Speech."

287 posted on 01/04/2013 10:57:15 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Katechon
What about porn? Is restricting porn to our children a restriction to liberties? Of course it is. But we do it, and we enforce it, because of the nefarious effects porn would have on them kids.

Children are not of the age of majority, and there is demonstrable proof of its harmful to children. So, it is not a restriction of liberties to prevent the exploitation of minor children. Secondly pornography is not sold to children it is age restricted, as are violent movies, alcohol, firearms, tobacco, the lottery, and yes even video games.

Certain things society has deemed under no circumstances can a minor be exposed to certain thing - such as pornography because it has demonstrable negative impacts on children. Others, with parental consent - such as video games and movies children can be exposed to it. As the other poster mentioned, where are the statistics demonstrating FPS games = mass murder to the extent they need to be banned?

Porn, the lottery, tobacco, firearms, etc are not outright banned. While you or I may find many of these things detestable, it is not for me to ban others from them. Now, when my perceived "right" or liberty to do something infringes on the rights of someone else, I no longer have that right........it's why the Supreme Court has routinely held "fighting words" are not "Free Speech."

288 posted on 01/04/2013 10:57:33 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Repeat Offender

“Who would be responsible for deciding this? Would society vote on it? Would a judge decide? What would the penalties be for violating it? If Person A made a bootleg video game and Person B played it and then coincidentally murdered someone, would Person A be an accessory to murder?”

Those are excellent question and I can’t answer them all. All I can say is: Grossman wants to ban access to children.

How did porn become banned?


289 posted on 01/04/2013 10:59:11 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Repeat Offender
"Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill" There is perhaps no bigger or more important issue in America at present than youth violence. [...] We know them all too well, and for all the wrong reasons: kids, some as young as eleven years old, taking up arms and, with deadly, frightening accuracy, murdering anyone in their paths. What is going on? According to the authors of Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill, there is blame to be laid right at the feet of the makers of violent video games (called "murder trainers" by one expert), the TV networks, and the Hollywood movie studios--the people responsible for the fact that children often witness literally hundreds of violent images a day. http://www.killology.com/book_stop_summary.htm It's about banning access for the kids. They all play those games now, very young kids. That's the issue here, not banning them as cocaine is banned; as I've said, those FPS games could be very useful to train many for the coming Civil War Deux.
290 posted on 01/04/2013 11:05:02 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon
How did porn become banned?

If by banned, you mean to children?

I am not a lawyer, but I believe it falls under endangering the welfare of a minor, lewd and indecent conduct etc. and certain legal thresholds have to be met. Again, not being a lawyer, your child walks in on you in the bathroom will probably not get you sent up the river (although the zero tolerance nazis would probably love to) but sitting down to an after dinner sex video would.

And I don't know why this is the next next topic.....because porn is not outright banned. Grossman is calling for FPS games to be outright banned at least that's what I am getting from his remarks.

291 posted on 01/04/2013 11:06:06 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Repeat Offender

“........it’s why the Supreme Court has routinely held “fighting words” are not “Free Speech.” “

The spirit behind ‘fighting words’ is indeed to ban words aiming at mobilizing a crowd into a lynching mob!


292 posted on 01/04/2013 11:07:22 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Repeat Offender

I don’t think he wants a total ban; he wants very severe restrictions, and to ban kids from accessing them.


293 posted on 01/04/2013 11:09:04 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon

And obviously based on 30 years of it not exploding, his theory fails experimental scrutiny.

What other scientific social or other theory that has repeatedly failed experimental scrutiny for 30 years is considered legitimate?

Exactly none.

Each day is a lab. Each day passes with a failure of the experiment. Over 30 years of experimental failure.

He would have better results championing global warming. Because we can measure the planet heating and cooling daily. We cannot measure the game related deaths as there has never been ‘daily’ killings based on usage of video games. The experimental proof does not exist.

I can say I believe that video games reduce violent crime and another poster has shown you the stats that not only prove a reduction in violent crime and murder correlating to the timeframe, but are in fact verifiable through their existence.

No such proof to the contrary exists. And the state to the contrary further show the incorectness of the ‘games cause murder, active or latent, theory.

Now, in light of actual facts disproving his theory, how can you logically, scientifically, emotionally or rationally support it?


294 posted on 01/04/2013 11:12:10 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Katechon
No, it is aimed at one individual against another. The original context, my understanding of it had nothing to do with a lynch mob. Just that I do not have the right to say things to another person with the intent of provoking them with a physical response.

For example, I cannot walk up to a random person on the street and follow him down the sidewalk and tell him all the ways 'I am going to rape, torture, and burn his entire family, and then after I get my #ss kicked say 'well I was just strolling along there with my hands in my pocket enjoying the sun shiny day and exercising my Free Speech.' More than likely I would be charged with breaching the peace and told I deserved to get the #ss beating.

295 posted on 01/04/2013 11:12:49 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Katechon
I don’t think he wants a total ban; he wants very severe restrictions, and to ban kids from accessing them.

That's entirely different than the original discussion. Aside from that there already are age restrictions on FPS game purchases.

Beyond that there is no way to fully ban children from accessing them. And I do not support locking up parents for letting their children play video games. How is it any different than playing Cowboys and Indians with cap guns in the backyard? There is no evidence to support such draconian measures.

As an example of zero tolerance stupidity....and I'll even use the example of porn - teenage boys and girls are getting charged with child porn crimes and a laundry list of others for sending naked pictures of each other via text message; basically the digital version of "I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours." Kids are having to register as sex offenders for life over stupid kid decisions.

We don't need more laws.

296 posted on 01/04/2013 11:20:07 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Norm Lenhart

I am not supporting it; I am discussing it; I am thinking about it with you guys; I am however trying to play Grossman’s advocate (quite poorly, I have to admit!).


297 posted on 01/04/2013 11:24:30 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Repeat Offender

“How is it any different than playing Cowboys and Indians with cap guns in the backyard? “

In the video, he explained that the difference is that when someone is hurt, the game stops — whereas with FPS shooting, you are rewarded to make head explode, blood flowing and eviscerate the others.

It’s very different.


298 posted on 01/04/2013 11:26:40 PM PST by Katechon
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To: Katechon

Do you agree with him? Based on what documentable evidence?

I am all for devils advocate thought exercises. Love’em. But not when the premise is ludicrous on its face and unsupportable by the facts. Then its not a thought exercise. It’s ridiculous.

It’s not a matter of you supporting his theory poorly. Because HE can’t support it himself. So how could anyone else?

I gotta call it a night.


299 posted on 01/04/2013 11:30:10 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Repeat Offender

Grossman says that FPS videogame makers are addicting kids to video games for hours at a time, blasting away at humanoid targets that explode in very realistic blood and gore when you shoot them.

That does not happen when they play Indians and Cowboys.

In vidgames, when you pull the trigger, another virtual human explodes in hi-def blood and gore right in front of you. Grossman says that this rewires the cerebrum to be ready to pull the actual-trigger on actual living humans in a way that playing Indians and Cowboys never, ever did.


300 posted on 01/04/2013 11:30:44 PM PST by Katechon
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