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The Myth of an Impure GOP (Ideologically sound, but not always effective)
National Review ^ | 01/15/2013 | Jonah Goldberg

Posted on 01/16/2013 7:24:35 AM PST by SeekAndFind

It’s hard for a lot of people, particularly on the right, to recognize that the conservative movement’s problems are mostly problems of success. But the Republican party’s problems are much more recognizable as the problems of failure, including the failure to recognize the limits of that movement’s success.

American conservatism began as a kind of intellectual hobbyists’ group with little hope of changing the broader society. Albert Jay Nock, the cape-wearing libertarian intellectual — he called himself a “philosophical anarchist” — who inspired a very young William F. Buckley Jr., argued that political change was impossible because the masses were rubes, goons, fools, or sheep, victims of the eternal tendency of the powerful to exploit the powerless.

Buckley, who rightly admired Nock for many things, rightly disagreed on this point. Buckley trusted the people more than the intellectuals. Moreover, as Buckley’s friend Richard Weaver said, “ideas have consequences,” and, consequently, it is possible to rally the public to your cause.

It took time. In an age when conservative books make millions, it’s hard to imagine how difficult it once was to get a right-of-center book published. Henry L. Regnery, the founder of the publishing house that bears his name, started his venture to break the wall of groupthink censorship surrounding the publishing industry. With a few exceptions, Regnery was the only game in town for decades.

That’s hardly the case anymore. While there’s a higher bar for conservative authors at mainstream publishers (which remain overwhelmingly liberal), profit tends to trump ideology.

And publishing is a lagging indicator. In cable news, think tanks, talk radio, and, of course, the Internet, conservatives have at least rough parity with, and often superiority to, liberals. It’s only in the legacy institutions — newspapers, the broadcast networks, and most especially academia and Hollywood — that conservatism is still largely frozen out. Nonetheless, conservatism is a mass-market enterprise these days, for good and for ill.

The good is obvious. The ill is less understood. For starters, the movement has an unhealthy share of hucksters eager to make money from stirring rage, paranoia, and an ill-defined sense of betrayal with little concern for the real political success that can come only with persuading the unconverted.

A conservative journalist or activist can now make a decent living while never once bothering to persuade a liberal. Telling people only what they want to hear has become a vocation. Worse, it’s possible to be a rank-and-file conservative without once being exposed to a good liberal argument. Many liberals lived in such an ideological cocoon for decades, which is one reason conservatives won so many arguments early on. Having the right emulate that echo chamber helps no one.

Ironically, the institution in which conservatives had their greatest success is the one most besieged by conservatives today: the Republican party. To listen to many grassroots conservatives, the GOP establishment is a cabal of weak-kneed sellouts who regularly light votive candles to a poster of liberal Republican icon Nelson Rockefeller.

This is not only not true, it’s a destructive myth. The Rockefeller Republicans were purged from the GOP decades ago. Their high-water mark was in 1960, when the Goldwater insurgency was temporarily crushed. Richard Nixon agreed to run on a platform all but dictated by Rockefeller and to tap Rockefeller’s minion Henry Cabot Lodge as his running mate. When the forebears of today’s tea partiers threatened to stay home or bolt the party in 1960, Senator Barry Goldwater proclaimed, “Let’s grow up, conservatives!”

It’s still good advice. It’s not that the GOP isn’t conservative enough, it’s that it isn’t tactically smart or persuasive enough to move the rest of the nation in a more conservative direction. Moreover, thanks in part to the myth that all that stands between conservatives and total victory is a philosophically pure GOP, party leaders suffer from a debilitating lack of trust — some of it well earned — from the rank and file.

But politics is about persuasion, and a party consumed by the need to prove its purity to its base is going to have a very hard time proving anything else to the rest of the country.

— Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online and a visiting fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gop; ideology
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1 posted on 01/16/2013 7:24:47 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
Seriously Jonah?

Did I just imagine Boehners pre-budget deal committee Putsch?

2 posted on 01/16/2013 7:35:37 AM PST by skeeter
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To: SeekAndFind; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; ...
RE “It’s still good advice. It’s not that the GOP isn’t conservative enough, it’s that it isn’t tactically smart or persuasive enough to move the rest of the nation in a more conservative direction. Moreover, thanks in part to the myth that all that stands between conservatives and total victory is a philosophically pure GOP, party leaders suffer from a debilitating lack of trust — some of it well earned — from the rank and file.
But politics is about persuasion, and a party consumed by the need to prove its purity to its base is going to have a very hard time proving anything else to the rest of the country. “

This is the money quote. I been pointing this unfortunate fact out for a while, like 2 years now..
Dems are not doing this(what Rs are on this) , they are more concerned with winning, with beating Rs then playing silly games.

Its all about getting voters on your side, and against the other side. Dems now always win because they know this.

Its delusional to believe that Bohner or McConnell(uggh) , or even Newt in 2005/2006 wont cave when public opinion turns against the GOP, or that someone would try to get weak Bohner's job. He is the goat.
That delusion leads to a a few protest fantasy votes for Donald Duck as Speaker, and loss after loss.

So each confrontation results in the same repeatable pattern
: 1) public Boasting (’we wont give an inch this time!’) ,
2) symbolic votes that never see law,
3) caving to O,
3)circular firing squad ('That darn Bohner sold us out again') ,
4) GOP”s approval takes another dive.

3 posted on 01/16/2013 7:48:38 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: SeekAndFind

RUSH LIMBAUGH has it right.

The Conservative movement does not have a leader... not a leader that is articulate, dedicated, capable of explaining, educating and convincing Americans that we are correct and able to gain respect or trust from the “low information” voter.

LLS


4 posted on 01/16/2013 7:56:30 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: SeekAndFind
But politics is about persuasion, and a party consumed by the need to prove its purity to its base is going to have a very hard time proving anything else to the rest of the country.

I see this as a tactical weakness in the GOP.
The marxists have a goal in mind and are willing to accept an incremental movement toward their goal. Over the last century they have inched their way toward the goal line when in the opposition and made giant gains when in control.

The GOP, not so much.

5 posted on 01/16/2013 7:59:19 AM PST by oldbrowser (They are marxists, don't call them democrats)
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To: SeekAndFind
The Rockefeller Republicans were purged from the GOP decades ago.

Oh really> Then what is Mitt Romney?

6 posted on 01/16/2013 8:01:35 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: sickoflibs

Democrats are not that concerned about beating republicans. Don’t get me wrong, they will and do cheat to win. All the same they are not that concerned when they lose, because they have infiltrated and diluted the republican party.

When they run against someone like Allen West, the democrats pull out all the tricks.

However, they also promote the weak, unprincipled GOPe. These republicans often run unopposed, or against a lightly supported candidate. This is a reward for “playing ball.”

And thus, the political class is born.

The last thing the democrats want is a true principled opponent. So, they support, mildly, the GOPe, keeping it in place as a blocking force to true opposition, such as the TEA Party.

The democrats are not as dumb as their policies indicate.


7 posted on 01/16/2013 8:04:33 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: SeekAndFind
American conservatism began as a kind of intellectual hobbyists’ group with little hope of changing the broader society. Albert Jay Nock, the cape-wearing libertarian intellectual — he called himself a “philosophical anarchist” — who inspired a very young William F. Buckley Jr., argued that political change was impossible because the masses were rubes, goons, fools, or sheep, victims of the eternal tendency of the powerful to exploit the powerless.

The last election was proof that Nock was correct.

To listen to many grassroots conservatives, the GOP establishment is a cabal of weak-kneed sellouts who regularly light votive candles to a poster of liberal Republican icon Nelson Rockefeller.

I'm still waiting for some verifiable evidence to support this statement.

8 posted on 01/16/2013 8:08:39 AM PST by EricT. (The GOP's sole purpose is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party.)
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To: oldbrowser
Exactly, it's not a matter of philosphy as much as it's a matter of strategy and far too many on Free Republic don't get that. They believe it is possible to win the whole ball of wax at one time and they're not interesting in incrementalism.

Those who are willing to believe they have accomplished something by voting "third party" come to mind. This empowers Democrats and the left and further weakens the only chance we have at defeating liberalism and that is through the Republican party.

9 posted on 01/16/2013 8:11:11 AM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: EricT.
I'm still waiting for some verifiable evidence to support this statement.

Correction:

I'm still waiting for some verifiable evidence to support that the view held by grass-roots conservatives is wrong.

10 posted on 01/16/2013 8:11:27 AM PST by EricT. (The GOP's sole purpose is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party.)
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To: sickoflibs

You are completely correct, but many people just don’t want to hear it. They think if we fire Boehner things would suddenly be better. They don’t understand that if we as a conservative movement can’t move public opinion, no matter who we have in elected leadership will cave to public opinion turning against them. They’ll feel they have to or they’ll infuriate the public and lose their seats.

This article is excellent too. The idea that there was some magic time in the 50’s or 60’s or 70’s where Republicans were more conservative is nonsense. Republicans used to be LESS conservative. Ike was fine with FDR’s tax rates and most of his policies, Nixon gave us the EPA and price controls, etc.

As a party we are probably more conservative than ever (though certainly not where we ultimately need to be), but as a movement we are not sufficiently moving the needle of public opinion. We can’t get anywhere if we can’t convince the public we are right. Unfortunately it seems we largely ceded the education, media and entertainment establishments completely to the left. It makes it much easier for them to beat us in the fight for public opinion.

I think its true that the GOP does not represent the base of the party very well, the problem is the base of the party isn’t representative of the overall United States. We need to change that before we are really going to start winning these fights with the Democrats at the national level.


11 posted on 01/16/2013 8:13:33 AM PST by Longbow1969
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To: SeekAndFind

Sorry, Jonah, this is a stinking pile of manure. “American conservatism began as a kind of intellectual hobbyists’ group with little hope of changing the broader society.” What kind of statement is that? American conservatism began with the Mayflower Compact and went on to the Declaration of Independence. It wasn’t a group of hobbyists that sacrificed everything they had to come to these shore in search of religious freedom. It was passionate Christians in a love relationship with their God willing to risk it all. Finally, in the last paragraph we get to the “real” agenda, “...the myth that all that stands between conservatives and total victory is a philosophically pure GOP…” The founders had a back bone, thank you very much, and among this lot we’d be hard pressed to find one vertebra. Jonah’s problem is that he has never met the God of the pilgrims and never wants to - but his day is coming. The King is coming and he doesn’t need a good PR campaign. We’ll see who wins the day then. In the mean time, the GOP needs to decide what they are going to be - limp wrist pretty boys - or real men passionate for the truth and willing to die for it if that time should come. So far it doesn’t look good.


12 posted on 01/16/2013 8:15:42 AM PST by Lake Living
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To: Triple
When they run against someone like Allen West, the democrats pull out all the tricks.

Allen West was intentionally re-districted to lose by the FLGOP.

Democrats blahblahblah... the Republicans shivved West in the back.

13 posted on 01/16/2013 8:18:27 AM PST by EricT. (The Second Amendment is Tyrant Control.)
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To: EricT.

My point is that the GOPe is merely a tool of the Democrats, or perhaps I should say socialists.

The GOPe sometimes does the direct bidding of the Democrats/socialists. Other times they put up enough opposition to justify their existence, and prevent the rise of the TEA Party.

Under no circumstances will the socialists/democrats/GOPe tolerate true opposition when it comes along, such as Allen West. These parties share a common goal of stamping out grassroots conservative political representation.

Conservatives must come to the conclusion that the GOPe is as much a roadblock to a return to conservative principles in government as is the democrat party. I think that the GOPe must be taken down first, because of the way they pull the air out of the TEA party’s sails (under false pretenses).


14 posted on 01/16/2013 8:36:35 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Longbow1969

“We can’t get anywhere if we can’t convince the public we are right.” - LB69

What is with this ‘we’ nonsense? Aren’t you the one that thinks all court challenges to Obama’s eligibility should be dropped, and that the long form birth certificate PDF posted on the whitehouse.gov site is fully legit?

Don’t you also mock sheriff Arpaio’s investigation?

Don’t you also claim that the clearly forged selective service document for Barack Obama is just fine? (Even though it is the only one in existence with a 2 digit date stamp for the year.)

“We” Really?

I will tell you right up front, *YOU* are not part of *MY* we.

(Fogbow)


15 posted on 01/16/2013 8:44:38 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Triple
Aren’t you the one that thinks all court challenges to Obama’s eligibility should be dropped, and that the long form birth certificate PDF posted on the whitehouse.gov site is fully legit?

Absolutely, yes. I think birther nonsense is stupid and counter productive. This is a good place to start. The conservative movement does not need wackadoodle conspiracy theorists. Take that stuff to Alex Jones' InfoWars.

We are not going to make headway with the public with a bunch of silly conspiracy theories.

I will tell you right up front, *YOU* are not part of *MY* we.

Yes, and Mark Levin, Rush, Hannity, etc, don't want anything to do with your birther conspiracy theories either. You start trying to spew that nonsense on serious conservative outlets and you'll get your butt kicked right off. That's for a reason. They know conservatives suffer if crazy birther conspiracy types become associated with the movement.

16 posted on 01/16/2013 8:53:53 AM PST by Longbow1969
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To: Longbow1969

Just so we are clear - You think Arpaio and his task force are a bunch of Kooks.

That lawfully asking for the Obama birth certificate to be presented to a court under penalty of perjury is damaging to the credibility of the *republicans*. (Not those that do everything in their power to avoid presenting it.)

You think the 2 digit secret service date stamp is legit - that anyone who questions it is a kook. (even though there is *no* other example.

You are exactly the type of person that should be expelled from any group that is trying to oppose the socialist/political class that is crushing the USA and its constitution.


17 posted on 01/16/2013 9:05:41 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Longbow1969

Just so we are clear - You think Arpaio and his task force are a bunch of Kooks.

That lawfully asking for the Obama birth certificate to be presented to a court under penalty of perjury is damaging to the credibility of the *republicans*. (Not those that do everything in their power to avoid presenting it.)

You think the 2 digit secret service date stamp is legit - that anyone who questions it is a kook. (Even though there is *no* other example.)

You are exactly the type of person that should be expelled from any group that is trying to oppose the socialist/political class that is crushing the USA and its constitution.


18 posted on 01/16/2013 9:05:58 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: skeeter

This article is a load of crap, and NY just proved it. The Republicans in NY just voted to limit gun magazines to 7 rounds. Feeeeelings . . . . ..


19 posted on 01/16/2013 9:08:40 AM PST by aimhigh ( Guns do not kill people. Planned Parenthood kills people.)
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To: sickoflibs

Sick - I don’t want Democrats having to compete with us - or for us to compete with them. I don’t care if Democrats are effective or we are. I don’t want to live with them, compromise with them, or anything. Let them create their own country with their own rules and show us how wonderful a country can be when it’s run by elites.

Yeah, we won’t hold our breaths...

It’s time for the United States to be split into two countries. Dems can put all their ideas into action the moment the ink on the agreement is dry. Dems can have it all their way...in their half.

When the country;s divided into two parts Dems can do the following in their NEW country:

They can have abortion on demand and free up until a day after the baby is born.

Unlimited FREE birth control.

Marriage between any and all groupings... human, animal, siblings... whatever.

Dems can open their borders and let every third world loser into their country. Millions can walk, run or fly in - all will be given citizenship. They’ll also be issued Social Security cards for their elderly third world parents.

We won’t try to stop them from giving everything away because it’ll be THEIR stuff they’re giving away - not ours..

Guns, bullets, and people who might want to defend themselves can be banned.

Unions can control all work places - and minimum wage will be raised to a hundred dollars an hour.

Stroke of the pen - law of the land. Why bother with legislatures? Hitler and Stalin didn’t bother going the ‘slow’ way... they could act quickly... the same day. No voter ID laws either. And they can throw out the Constitution - dems are waaaaaay to smart to need an old white guy document like that ....

We need to get out... let dems ‘win’.

**************************

Democrats will get what they want and we get what we want. Why fight them? Why should they fight us?

Divide the country. Give them what they want - one last shakedown then let’s get the hell of of this place.


20 posted on 01/16/2013 9:12:59 AM PST by GOPJ ( Gang members breaking down YOUR door-daughter&wife screaming -Dems took YOUR gun. Shots fired.)
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To: Triple

Let me be absolutely clear with you. I think the entire birther conspiracy case is ridiculous. And it’s not just me who thinks that, its virtually every serious, reputable conservative. Try to call a constitutional scholar like Mark Levin and get your birther conspiracies on his show, he’ll declare you a big dope and boot you off the air.

Arpaio is someone I still admire for his efforts against illegal immigration, I am sorry he got suckered into the birther nonsense. Sometimes good people get wrapped up in silly causes. In the end though, Arpaio has squat. His investigation produced nothing that convinced a prosecutor or court to buy into any of these birther conspiracies. Other than make the purveyors of it look silly, birtherism will never amount to anything. It’s a joke.

Further, I think you do the conservative movement a disservice by pushing these loopy conspiracy theories. I think after losing a few elections there is a tendency for a small minority in a movement to start gravitating to conspiracies to explain their defeats. That makes it doubly important that sane, serious conservatives call out the conspiracy kooks among us and keep them from staining the conservative movement. Is that clear enough?


21 posted on 01/16/2013 9:20:37 AM PST by Longbow1969
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To: Triple; Longbow1969; csmusaret
RE :”Democrats are not that concerned about beating republicans. Don’t get me wrong, they will and do cheat to win. All the same they are not that concerned when they lose, because they have infiltrated and diluted the republican party.”

Well they are not concerned about beating Rs right now because its so easy for them to do.
Dems stick together as a team and have a forward thinking strategy.
Rs react at the moment and fight with each other. They make believe they will win each election rather than face reality and change it.

Its not hard to see why O gets what he wants and will continue to.

So OK, we cleaned the Senate of Scott Browns, so now we got Eliz Warren. Lets see what an improvement that will be.

22 posted on 01/16/2013 9:23:03 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: SeekAndFind
I disagree in party.
It IS "that the GOP is NOT conservative enough" and that's VERY CLEAR !

A "philosophically pure GOP" would go a long way to clean up this HELL we now live in, but it's not "ALL that stands between conservatives and total victory".
What else is needed is fortitude to stand and fight!

I read a great article by Sheriff Jim R. Schwiesow, Ret. written February 4, 2011 from "NewsWithViews.com" and here's part of it.
Read Compromise Is a Dirty Word for Club for Growth.

Take a good long look at where "Establishment Republicans" ALWAYS take us.




23 posted on 01/16/2013 9:27:46 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Lake Living

Well said. Making tactics subservient to principle makes you lack principle. That is the problem. And now we are told we haven’t done this enough, after their last dream candidate, who did this exclusively, failed miserably under ideal conditions.

God save us.


24 posted on 01/16/2013 9:27:46 AM PST by AnonymousConservative (Why did Liberals evolve within our species? www.anonymousconservative.com)
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To: Triple
Specifically, tell me who I am to hate and fear. I don't see it. Of course, there are goofballs, like Colin Powell, but he is no Repubican--he's a fraud, a Democrat in Republican clothes.

Where do you get it that there are sufficient numbers of the GOPe to prevent larger numbers of "grassroots" conservatives from prevailing.

I totally agree we lack those with adequate communication skills to convince enough idiots that it is not in their best long-term interest to help liberals destroy America and this is exactly what they are doing.

I'd love to see Republicans with more backbone and spine, we must declare war on Dims and liberalism.

25 posted on 01/16/2013 9:29:54 AM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Yosemitest
CORRECTION:
26 posted on 01/16/2013 9:31:20 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: sickoflibs

It will not be much of a change, but what little it does change is for the worse.

Brown was no stalwart of conservatism. If he was he might have stood a chance.

Massachusetts is a stronghold for dems/socialists. Very hard to expect less than a progressive democrat coming out of Mass.

Pretending that the GOPe will actively fight to return this country to conservative principles...Good luck with that. The GOPe is concerned about re-election almost exclusively.

The GOPe is merely a weak/false opposition to encroaching socialism. The GOPe prevents a true grassroots conservative party from taking hold.


27 posted on 01/16/2013 9:33:19 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: GOPJ
RE :”It’s time for the United States to be split into two countries. Dems can put all their ideas into action the moment the ink on the agreement is dry. Dems can have it all their way...in their half.”

With that type of fantasy thinking expect more Dem SCOTUSs and judges ruling the red states.

Dont forget, much of O care tells red states what to do too. yes, even Texas.

28 posted on 01/16/2013 9:35:45 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

Boehner just within the last couple of weeks removed conservatives from committee assignments - for being too conservative. They were not loyal enough to the GOPe, but instead stood for their conservative principles.

The example does not get any clearer than that.


29 posted on 01/16/2013 9:36:06 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Yosemitest

Ford, Dole and McCain [3 out of 4, Romney excluded] have war time military service. Wonder what that conveys about their actions?


30 posted on 01/16/2013 9:41:25 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

BTW - I do not advocate hate or fear.

Just don’t be fooled into thinking that Boehner will lead a charge to return this country to conservative principles.

He hasn’t.
He wont.
He would rather be Speaker of the House, and on good golfing terms with Obama and the other socialists, as they take our country into socialism.


31 posted on 01/16/2013 9:43:02 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: skeeter
Did I just imagine Boehners pre-budget deal committee Putsch?

Yeah, that splurt of "big tent" Republicanism at the end left a foul taste in my mouth too. The GOPe can eat it.

32 posted on 01/16/2013 9:43:08 AM PST by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: ex-snook
Nothing!
At least they didn't promote people who DESPISE the military, to RUN the military, like Obama.
33 posted on 01/16/2013 9:47:55 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Triple

I know a little bit about those so-called “conservatives” that were removed and from what I know about them, they likely deserved to be removed. Iowa has had our fill of these crazy Ron Paul kooks and my understanding is that those four belonged to that club. I’m glad they’re gone and if I’m correct about these guys, I admire Boehner for having the guts to get rid of them and also, if I’m right, Boehner was a gentleman in not giving them a public tongue lashing. If they’re of the same mold as these crazies we have here in Iowa, they are kooks.


34 posted on 01/16/2013 9:48:12 AM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Triple
"He would rather be Speaker of the House, and on good golfing terms with Obama and the other socialists, as they take our country into socialism."

C'mon man. That's crazy. The GOP just elected him again as leader with no opposition. If conservatives want to fight, they got to get into the ring, the sideline mouth only does not do it. They got to stand up and be counted.

35 posted on 01/16/2013 9:52:10 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: Triple
I was at an event where Boehner spoke and I agreed with every word he said, now, that doesn't mean I am happy with everything he does but I know his heart is there so maybe we need to bolster him and support him.

I'm going to call his office now. I despise these RATS--they're slippery and slimy and it's difficult to outsmart them, especially when the MSM is against you. Phone: (202) 225-0600

36 posted on 01/16/2013 9:54:53 AM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Yosemitest

I think you are missing something about leadership at the top.


37 posted on 01/16/2013 9:57:37 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: Triple
RE :”Brown was no stalwart of conservatism. If he was he might have stood a chance.”

I heard Levin say this nonsense two weeks ago.

A state that elects a Marxist like Warren sure is not even considering electing a Jim DeMint. Talk like that is just sillyness.

Brown took many tough votes for the GOP considering his electorate and look at the thanks he gets for it. Votes that Warren would never consider making.

Tell you what, throwing away all but the red-est states is a sure formula for an all Obama SCOTUS.

Dems are going to form a long line to run for POTUS in 2016.

38 posted on 01/16/2013 10:04:46 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: SeekAndFind

The Myth of a GOP Successful While Working for Misogamists (family-haters) and the Sexually Confused

Go ahead. Try it for another few terms. The sure way to small government is default. The “progressive” big spenders of both political parties are headed that way.


39 posted on 01/16/2013 10:06:15 AM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Longbow1969; Lancey Howard; csmusaret; Arthurio
RE :”You are completely correct, but many people just don’t want to hear it. They think if we fire Boehner things would suddenly be better. They don’t understand that if we as a conservative movement can’t move public opinion, no matter who we have in elected leadership will cave to public opinion turning against them. They’ll feel they have to or they’ll infuriate the public and lose their seats”

Worse yet, they actually post like they think a few symbolic votes against weak Bohner, for Donald Duck, actually means something.

No one will take that job as the goat.

Sure, Lou Gohmert of TX is in a 100% R district where a Dem cant win (it was created that way), so Lou can oppose everything the House passes that makes it into law and be loved by his district, but Lou sure doesn't want to be Speaker because then he has to worry about losing the other Seats.

I always post to look at Pelosi as a model of a Speaker who had one goal in mind : beating Rs to get results.

Pelosi let libs have their silly symbolic play votes, but when it was time to get her D House to fund the surge and then to extend all the tax cuts for 2 years(or even pass the Senate O-care Bill) , she got her team to fall in line even thought they ran against those things.

Her goal was winning and she was darn good at it.

40 posted on 01/16/2013 10:09:53 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: SeekAndFind

ping for later


41 posted on 01/16/2013 10:11:23 AM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: ex-snook

How can you miss something that ISN’T there?


42 posted on 01/16/2013 10:17:34 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: sickoflibs

she got her team to fall in line even thought they ran against those things.

It was amusing to watch blue dogs turn yellow.


43 posted on 01/16/2013 10:21:42 AM PST by csmusaret (I will give Obama credit for one thing- he is living proof that familiarity breeds contempt.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The big issue I see is that a large fraction of democrat politicians are ideologically committed to a cause. Look at ObamaCare — it was (and still is) deeply unpopular. Yet the democrats were willing to sacrifice their careers to put it into place. A Republican was elected to Massachusetts specifically because he promised to do what he could to stop Obamacare from being passed — but even with such clear warning that it was deeply unpopular, the deomocrats passed it anyway, and several of them lost elections (or didn’t try for reelection) because of exactly that.

Just imagine what our country would be like if the Republicans were as deeply committed to individual liberty, and as willing to make sacrifices for it, as the Democrats were for big government.


44 posted on 01/16/2013 10:28:21 AM PST by TennesseeProfessor
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To: ex-snook

“C’mon man. That’s crazy. The GOP just elected him again as leader with no opposition.” - es

Yes - the GOPe is the majority of the house GOP in general. The GOPe is in the driver seat of the party. Boehner is the head of the GOPe.

I stand by my prediction that Boehner will not lead the country in a more conservative direction. I predict he will occasionally show opposition to the democrats, and then strike a solid compromise in their favor.

Remember the last “compromise”? I think the ratio of spending cuts to taxes was 1:40. THe deal was declared a “win” by Obama. Boehner handed it to him.

Have you seen the 8 zeros view of the federal finances? It showed how crazy that compromise was.


45 posted on 01/16/2013 10:43:12 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: sickoflibs
A lot of folks just don't want to hear reason. They think threatening the GOP over and over on web forums is going to make a difference. It's the same people on thread after thread screaming about how they left the GOP, yet they continue threatening it. I guess it makes them feel good, but it accomplishes nothing. If you've left the GOP, fine, but stop shaking your fist at it.

No one will take that job as the goat.

There was not a single person running against Boehner. None. For him, the worst that could have happened is he won on a 2nd ballot.

Her goal was winning and she was darn good at it.

Politics is like a religion for the left. Democrats may get frustrated about their progress or lack thereof, but they keep their eyes on the ball and always push for whatever they can get - and they are always ready to take advantage of a tragedy to get their agenda passed. They are flexibly pragmatic when necessary, and are fine electing a fake conservative like Manchin in WVA. They know that state is turning red, and they are happy to deny us a seat. They did the same in Indiana by running a supposed pro-life Dem against Mourdoch, and they won. By and large the left seems much more politically saavy than the right - probably because government is a really big part of what they think about.

Boehner is not an impressive speaker in my view. Honestly, the weeping thing he's got going on kind of makes me queasy. I do wish we had someone better to lead us, but I'm under no illusions that it would make much difference. The power of the Presidency is huge, and Obama is well liked by the American public - there is no way a Speaker can compete with that. We need to win on ideas, and right now the left seems to be in ascendency. The hard work ahead is largely going to be challenging the left in academia, the media and the entertainment culture - that is where we are really losing, and that's what allows Obama and the Democrats to beat us on so many issues.

46 posted on 01/16/2013 11:05:34 AM PST by Longbow1969
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To: ex-snook; Dr. Sivana; RitaOK; Windflier; cripplecreek; Finny; Tennessee Nana; GailA; ...
Ex-snook:

What does military service guarantee in a political context?

George McGovern flew a bomber in combat in World War II European Theater. He had no objection to bombing the Nazis whom Dole heroically fought and possibly Feckless Gerald Ford may have fought nor should McGovern have had reservations about bombing Trieste. It might have proven more if he agreed to fly again in the Korean War but he likely had no enthusiasm for bombing his Korean Marxist-Leninist buddies and political co-religionists. He did whatever he could to leave Vietnam enslaved by murderous Marxist-Leninists.

Senator Tom Harkin (Commiecrat-Iowa) claims to have flown in combat in Vietnam when it appears that he was flying supply planes instead. No zest for actually attacking the "forces of progress and the future."

Did you know that John Kerry is said to have served in Vietnam before sticking a collective shiv in the backs of American military folks by starting Vietnam Veterans Against the War, throwing someone else's medals over the White House fence, lying to Congressional hearings and meeting on the sly in Paris with Viet Cong representatives at the farcical "peace talks" (round table? square table? for those who remember this absolute fiasco) to see what Comrade Kerry could do to be of actual service to Uncle Ho's successors???

Even Harry Truman, a serious combat veteran of World War I infantry service, was elected to the Senate and ran despicable hearings accusing munitions manufacturers of "war profiteering" to the delight of the pacifist and Marxist-Leninist left. Truman partially redeemed himself by being a somewhat aggressive war POTUS against Imperial Japan and then reverted to type by firing MacArthur in Korea. By today's Demonratic standards, Truman's track record is that of a man to the right of Goldwater at least on foreign policy.

Senator Upchuck Hagel (theoretically a Republican) is a decorated combat veteran of the Vietnam War.

I would not have wanted a McGovern or a Kerry as POTUS. Nor Hagel as SecDef. Nor McGovern, Harkin, Kerry, Hagel nor Truman as senators.

What is your point about Ford, Dole and McCain? Did military heroism make Dole anything more than the "tax collector for the welfare state" that Jack Kemp observed him to be? Was Ford (maiden name Leslie King) any the less a quisling on all matters of public policy and any the less a stooge for liberal monied interests uber alles in the GOP because of whatever his military service may have been? Did McCain's unquestioned heroism in Vietnam and the Hanoi Hilton make him less of a spineless senator always looking for excuses to genuflect before the leftist colleagues and cooperate with them? Each of these "Republicans" in his own way is no better than a quisling like Romney made very marginally more respectable by military service.

Again, what is your point about Ford, Dole and McCain???

Am I wrong? Detailed answer with reasons please.

47 posted on 01/16/2013 11:06:07 AM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: Triple
I was at an event where Boehner spoke and I agreed with every word he said, now, that doesn't mean I am happy with everything he does but I know his heart is there so maybe we need to bolster him and support him.

I'm going to call his office now. I despise these RATS--they're slippery and slimy and it's difficult to outsmart them, especially when the MSM is against you. Phone: (202) 225-0600

48 posted on 01/16/2013 11:33:42 AM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Longbow1969
RE :”Boehner is not an impressive speaker in my view. Honestly, the weeping thing he's got going on kind of makes me queasy. I do wish we had someone better to lead us, but I'm under no illusions that it would make much difference. The power of the Presidency is huge, and Obama is well liked by the American public - there is no way a Speaker can compete with that”

The power of the POTUS to get his message out and the fact that Os strategy is to offer most voters what appears to be free stuff (much like GWB) at the cost of national debt, and Rs goal is to take away the free stuff.
O has definitely the easiest job there.

Voters hate national debt in the abstract but they hate losing stuff or paying more in taxes even more than debt , they mainly hate debt only because it mean future pain, but they see that as better than near term pain.

Yesterday I got an angry reply for posting that O is liked compared to GOP.

49 posted on 01/16/2013 11:45:49 AM PST by sickoflibs (Losing to O is NO principle!)
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To: BlackElk
"Again, what is your point about Ford, Dole and McCain??? "

The experience of having your life depend on others develops the ability to get along with others, a requisite for leadership to get things done.

50 posted on 01/16/2013 11:56:20 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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