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Universal Background Checks and Physician Reporting Are Just Plain Frightening
Townhall.com ^ | January 17, 2013 | Matt Towery

Posted on 01/17/2013 2:10:03 AM PST by Kaslin

For years now, we've heard from all types, ranging from the "over-informed" to the just plain ignorant, claiming that under President Obama the nation isn't just moving towards "socialism," but rather in a direction in which liberty truly disappears quickly and tyranny creeps in and takes its place.

But even for those who may have been primarily fiscal conservatives and who otherwise believed social policy should lean toward a "mind your own business" approach, several of the gun-control proposals coming from President Obama likely came as a shock.

I don't even want to get into what qualifies as a military assault weapon or any of the hardcore issues Obama addressed in his unveiling of new executive orders and proposed legislation related to the regulation of firearms. The two issues of universal background checks and some heightened degree of physician involvement in helping deal with guns in America are enough to cause many to gasp for air.

It has been an ongoing debate as to why the Second Amendment guarantees a right to keep and bear arms. We've all heard the strict interpretation of that right, holding closely to the amendment's language stating "a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state ..." and suggesting that there was never an intent for citizens to simply carry all manner of firearms for whatever purpose they so choose. And then there are interpretations, as upheld by the Supreme Court, stating that the Second Amendment creates new rights that go beyond simply that of protecting against the taking of arms by a tyrannical government but instead allowing Americans to keep and preserve armed weapons for peaceful purposes and protection.

That's very simplistic history, but here is the nuance that cannot even be reduced to a "Cliffs Notes" explanation. Background checks for every sale of every gun in America is intrusion into our privacy and a concept that would likely have a chilling effect on the lawful transfer of weapons to a level beyond imagination. And, of course, sales between those who disregard laws like, oh, say, burglary, likely would tend to ignore background requirements.

Those in support of the White House's proposal will likely argue that there are few instances, other than gun shows, in which true casual sales take the place of commercial sales. But that argument skirts the real issue and the president's assertion that 40 percent of sales now require no background check. A blanket requirement related to personal transactions could be far-reaching. And since every transaction, even a gift, is regulated now by the IRS, would it take very long for the transfer of guns between family members or as an inheritance to qualify for the same background checks?

What we are really talking about here is the addition of more Americans into an ever-growing system of data, which whether by design or not seems destined to not only restrict our freedoms but shatter what little privacy we have remaining. The proposal has little chance of passage in the Congress, but it gives those who never considered the alleged "slippery slope" being created by the Obama administration strong reason to consider just how slippery it might be and where any slide might end up.

As for the second aspect of Obama's proposals, that of encouraging physicians to communicate with authorities about individuals who might exhibit mental illness in combination with gun ownership or making clear through Obamacare that doctors are given authority to question about gun ownership and advise on safety matters related to such ownership, well, that certainly sounds reasonable. But when one considers the massive electronic database being assembled under modern health care as we know it, the inability to preserve privacy with regard to health information and government's continuing effort to intrude into the private lives of citizens, the concept once again places a chill in the air -- or down the spine.

The medical establishment appears thrilled with the proposals related to physicians. And the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary moves a lot of people toward wanting "assault weapons" banned or controlled. But in the Sandy Hook case, the only way Obama's proposals with regard to background or physicians would have played a role would have been to institutionalize Adam Lanza for general mental illness before he committed his depraved crime or deny his mother, a victim of her son's attack, the right to bear arms because of her son's pre-existing mental problems. He apparently did not buy his weapons, instead taking them from her.

That would take a great deal of investigating, some very far-reaching action by medical professionals and the use of a crystal ball. If we get that far down the slope, we are in real trouble.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: banglist; barackobama; guncontrol; secondamendment; socialism

1 posted on 01/17/2013 2:10:14 AM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

People are simple going to refuse to get help for ailments that are easily treatable, such as depression. This his yet another example of the long list of failed policies that arise out of wanting to appear to be “doing something.”


2 posted on 01/17/2013 2:23:40 AM PST by ScottinVA (More dizzying than a Tilt-a-Whirl is an around-a-circle argument with a liberal about gun control.)
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To: ScottinVA

This his = This is


3 posted on 01/17/2013 2:26:05 AM PST by ScottinVA (More dizzying than a Tilt-a-Whirl is an around-a-circle argument with a liberal about gun control.)
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To: ScottinVA

Encyclopedia of Herbal Medicine...by Andrew Chevalier is a good start.


4 posted on 01/17/2013 2:40:02 AM PST by spokeshave (The only people better off today than 4 years ago are the Prisoners at Guantanamo.)
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To: Kaslin

At the range yesterday , my Doc, wo served as a United States Navy Hospital Corpsman asked questions about my weapon.........only to educate himself on the newer technolgy, said he was going to upgrade from his trusty 1911. He also said he was ordering a rubber stamp that says “no guns in this household” to be used on any & all future government forms if the forms asked such information.


5 posted on 01/17/2013 2:57:09 AM PST by Einherjar
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To: Kaslin

I don’t think there is a real argument over what tgd 2nd amendment means. It’s clear as a bell. There are people who don’t like it and don’t Want it to be the law, is all.


6 posted on 01/17/2013 3:07:40 AM PST by Tublecane
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To: Kaslin

Good article, and Matt is a good guy from what I’ve seen of him here in GA. I had a nice one-on-one chat with him at the state Republican convention last Summer, on the general subject of how TEA Partyers and Paulites really have a lot in common and need to work together more.

One thing he misses on the general subject, that I haven’t seen anyone exploring well, is the idea of a right to privacy. We have a major league Supreme Court case over a very contentious issue, Roe v. Wade, that is built around an “emanation from a penumbra” giving women a right to privacy, thus justifying making abortion legal.

Does this right to privacy suddenly go out the window when firearms are involved? How does that work?

I don’t want to get into an abortion debate here - but I do want to get into the idea of privacy. One thing the EU seems to do better than us is explicitly recognize a right to information privacy. I can think of few areas that I want more privacy than in my medical records and my firearms ownership.

The government needs to be kept guessing how many of us own how many firearms of what types. This is feature, not a bug, in the current background check schema. Just because we have the technology to keep up with serial numbers for everything does not mean we should. Technology is one thing - human systems, processes, and procedures are another, so first it would be ridiculously expensive (see Canada’s experience on this), second it wouldn’t prevent much crime, and finally the government ought to be wondering what the People really have, just to keep them a little more honest.

We have a right to privacy established by Roe v. Wade. We should use this argument in defending against some of the nonsense Obama is spewing in the wake of Sandy Hook and seeing if it will stick.


7 posted on 01/17/2013 3:24:59 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Kaslin

Suddenly HIPPAA isn’t so sacrosanct when it doesn’t protect the protected classes from the consequences of their lifestyle?


8 posted on 01/17/2013 3:33:11 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Kaslin

My Dr. Asked ‘Do you have guns in your house?’ I said ‘ My guns are not broke. My ribs are.’ He then asked ‘ Do you drink?’ “Yep.” ‘ How much?’ “Socially.” He asked for a number. I wouldn’t give it to him. Why? In PA the Dr. is required by DOT to have this info reported if he FEEEEEELS the number is too much and they take your license away, up your insurance and put you in a remedial class. Another money making scam. IF IT SAVES ONE PERSON’S LIFE, WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO DO IT. I’m so sick and tired of that phrase. Why don’t they use it for homosexuals, rock climbers, parachutists or damn near anything where we could save ONE LIFE?


9 posted on 01/17/2013 3:49:41 AM PST by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: Kaslin
Your instincts are correct: universal background checks are just a smokescreen for complete government control over firearms. The Brady Bill started out as a "common sense method to prevent felons and other unqualified persons from obtaining handguns". Even the NRA didn't see the trap coming and supported its enactment. Very soon after, it was expanded to include all firearms. Then after that, Congress slipped in the domestic violence restrictions and much more subtly, added "misdemeanors which could qualify as a felony today".

What has evolved is a restrictive government licensing system which can be more restrictive whenever they feel like it. Jaywalking? Denied. Reported my your neighbor or your doctor to be a gun nut? Denied. Belong to the Tea Party? Denied. The best part of their trap is that you, as a free American citizen have no right or ability to see your own file or rectify false or outdated data. As that one Navy vet recently found out, even a fistfight from 40 years ago is more than enough to deny buying and possessing his guns.

More than opposing weapon and magazine bans, we need to mobilize to stop the expansion of this naked grab for power. If we don't we deserve what happens to us next.

10 posted on 01/17/2013 4:08:22 AM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: Kaslin

It will evolve into a universal background check into your family history, all possible relatives/connections that can have access to your house (and the chance to get their hands on guns).

Not to mention ‘private sales’. Just you wait.


11 posted on 01/17/2013 4:16:14 AM PST by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: Kaslin
Apparently we no longer have a "Right to Privacy" from the Government.
We only have a right to privacy from businesses like WalMart.

12 posted on 01/17/2013 4:22:24 AM PST by Falcon4.0
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To: Sir Napsalot

IF ONLY Obama in the past had attempted to purchase a gun, we might know more about him then.


13 posted on 01/17/2013 4:23:05 AM PST by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: Kaslin

I wonder what sort of background check our founders insisted upon of the people back then in order for them to own guns? Hmmmmm..


14 posted on 01/17/2013 4:24:52 AM PST by New Jersey Realist (America: home of the free because of the brave)
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To: Kaslin

WHY is any so-called conservative shocked at these actions?? Obama is and HAS BEEN a radical socialist. This is not surprising.


15 posted on 01/17/2013 4:27:49 AM PST by Solson (The Voters stole the election! And the establishment wants it back.)
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To: Kaslin
Obama is a communist, evil, piece of crap dictator that must be impeached. It uses a statistically nonexistent event to take away our rights and freedom .

These stupid mass shootings are statistically NONEXISTANT events. the news media has made this mass shooting the event that everyone is talking about for the last month.

Less than 100 people get killed in mass shootings per year.

Criminals rape 300,000 women per year in the U.S.

Criminals invade 2.5 million homes per year . These last 2 are real events and threats.

100,000 Americans dies each year in accidents.

millions of Americans die in the U.S. each year of causes not by a mass shooter only less than 100 do.

There are 50, events per year where lighting kills Americans. There are just a handful now of mass shooting events. but the news media makes sure that every mass shooting is reported on trillions of times to every American and that the shooter is world famous more so than any star.

16 posted on 01/17/2013 4:40:49 AM PST by Democrat_media (media makes mass shooters household names to create more & take our guns)
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To: Democrat_media

17 posted on 01/17/2013 5:27:23 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Safetgiver

A while back, I went shopping for new eyeglass frames and got threatened with driver license confiscation if I didn’t buy the prescription they thought I should have. “I have to report that,” was the nice way to put it.
I bought the new glasses but since then have accepted the Soviet style of lying to people I used to deal with on an honest and fair basis.
And of course, I see quite well with the old glasses and the expensive new pair are in a drawer somewhere, utterly useless.


18 posted on 01/17/2013 5:28:52 AM PST by HomeAtLast ( You're either with the Tea Party, or you're with the EBT Party.)
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To: Kaslin

If anyone has young children that go for a wellness visit...the nurse will ask them if there are guns in the house...its part of the new electronic medical records


19 posted on 01/17/2013 5:43:10 AM PST by bike800
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To: Safetgiver

“My Dr. Asked ‘Do you have guns in your house?’”

If you really want trouble, tell him, “No, I usually either keep ‘em in the car or on my person...”

Seriously, in a similar vein to the “if it saves one person’s life we have an obligation to do it” hpocrisy — where I work we have the option to change insurance plans in October, to be effective in January. Each plan is supposed to provide uniform benefits. In other words if Joe down the hall has plan A, I have plan B, and Bonnie has plan C, all of our covered services / available treatments are the same. The overseer of the plan administration came out with new prior auths for 2013, one of which was initially reported as for low back surgery. It later turned out the language was for any condition related to low back pain for those who had not completed conservative care. Was told each plan can interpret implementation their own way.

I talked to them. They said the intent was not to limit care (it absolutely was) but for those poor unsuspecting first time back pain patients who find themselves on the operating table without having tried conservative care measures.

Then they could have written the language requiring prior auths for in-patient low back surgery (some injections are coded as outpatient surgery, this the clarification.)

But basically, if they were truly concerned about people trying conservative care measures first, maybe they should actually stop limiting access to those same measures...


20 posted on 01/17/2013 5:46:15 AM PST by green pastures (Cynicism-- it's not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: HomeAtLast

Yeah. They tried that Shiite on me when they found out I had insurance. They were gonna replace the frames but then I had to go through a whole exam and they said the prescription was wrong. Overall, the price would have been $300 and all I wanted was a $25.00 frame replacement. “ We have to report this to DOT.” I said go ahead, You gave me these 8 months ago.


21 posted on 01/17/2013 5:51:34 AM PST by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: Kaslin
The medical establishment appears thrilled with the proposals related to physicians.

Doctors and nurses are now IRS agents with a government provided medical license.

Thanks to obamacare and his EOs, obama and the demonrats have nullified doctor/patient privilege and confidentiality, transforming doctors and nurses into government agents acting on the government's behalf instead of those in their care.

Whatever you tell them, you are telling the government.

Your care, your history and medical records, your tests and test results, your prescriptions and everything else about you now belongs to those paying the bills, not you.

Shut up and enjoy the free healthcare.

22 posted on 01/17/2013 5:55:32 AM PST by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: Kaslin

The very best thing about the Universal Background Checks is that it’s going to force gun owners into the open. The very worst reflex gun owners have in this country is to try and hide, either socially or politically, their support for the right to self-defense and the moral authority of doing so.

Responsible owners need to stop with the ‘my guns fell in the lake’ dodge and stand up for their rights proudly and vocally. Retreating, hiding, being afraid; these things all telegraph to the left (and the middle) that gun owners are morally weak and up to no good.

The correct answer to “Do you have any guns?” is “Of course I do. Any morally upstanding, able bodied citizen should be armed.” When they ask why you *need* a gun, tell them, “Because I don’t choose to live at the mercy of criminals or tyrants. If you choose to live at the mercy of your fellow man, that’s your decision, but your freedom ultimately rests upon people like me.”

This is the 21st century. You * can’t * hide. You must stand up for yourself and your beliefs publicly. Free men and women shouldn’t hide, and, in the end, they can’t.


23 posted on 01/17/2013 6:11:23 AM PST by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: Steel Wolf

Sorry, but it is nobody’s business what I have in my house.


24 posted on 01/17/2013 6:12:54 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Kaslin

The very best thing about the Universal Background Checks is that it’s going to force gun owners into the open. The very worst reflex gun owners have in this country is to try and hide, either socially or politically, their support for the right to self-defense and the moral authority of doing so.

Responsible owners need to stop with the ‘my guns fell in the lake’ dodge and stand up for their rights proudly and vocally. Retreating, hiding, being afraid; these things all telegraph to the left (and the middle) that gun owners are morally weak and up to no good.

The correct answer to “Do you have any guns?” is “Of course I do. Any morally upstanding, able bodied citizen should be armed.” When they ask why you *need* a gun, tell them, “Because I don’t choose to live at the mercy of criminals or tyrants. If you choose to live at the mercy of your fellow man, that’s your decision, but your freedom ultimately rests upon people like me.”

This is the 21st century. You * can’t * hide. You must stand up for yourself and your beliefs publicly. Free men and women shouldn’t hide, and, in the end, they can’t.


25 posted on 01/17/2013 6:17:28 AM PST by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: wtc911
Sorry, but it is nobody’s business what I have in my house.

In principle, no, it isn't. In practice, we're well past the point where that's going to be respected.

America is moving into a dark phase. Your right to privacy, however valid, is for all intents and purposes gone, and it isn't coming back unless we survive what's coming next.

26 posted on 01/17/2013 6:29:31 AM PST by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: Steel Wolf

Your comments are thought provoking and I like them. I am unsure if it will necessarily force ownership into the open. It should be none of their business if weapons are possessed. However, depending on how you answer the questions, and what their opinions are, you might risk the chance of losing your priveleges or rights at their whim. Firearms are nothing more than a tool. The tool can be used as a piece of rescue equipment, for killing game, or for other purposes. Some are being brainwashed into believing that ‘for other purposes’ means you might harm others, and for that they will see to it that weapons are taken away. If a bunch of people started using screwdrivers as murder weapons, do you think they would institute a ban or waiting period on them?


27 posted on 01/17/2013 6:29:57 AM PST by toolman1401
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To: Kaslin
Physician: "Do you have any fire arms in your home?"

Me: "No." End of conversation.

28 posted on 01/17/2013 6:50:50 AM PST by mosaicwolf (Strength and Honor)
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To: ScottinVA

Or simply lie about having guns.


29 posted on 01/17/2013 8:09:03 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Kaslin

“Hey Doc, I’ve been a little depressed since The Kenyan got re-elected”.. “No guns for you missy”


30 posted on 01/17/2013 8:53:04 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: HomeAtLast; Safetgiver
That really sounds tyrannical — actually fascistic. They could threaten me with all kinds of things and I still wouldn't/couldn't pay that kind of money. Not sure if it is a state law or federal but here you can pick up your Rx after the examination and head out the door. In my case I use it to order eyeglasses off the net (yes, made in China — I have no choice). Last pair of bifocals was $49 complete. They're fine.
31 posted on 01/17/2013 9:13:57 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: steve86

Absolutely, it is fascistic, now. It started with the insurance companies intimidating the practitioners, and now the government is set to take over insurance and more broadly, “health care.”

Whether or not there was a law saying it was mandatory to report someone for having a driver’s license and a pair of glasses not acceptable to the optometrist...he has already become accustomed to covering his fanny.

I don’t seriously thinks it’s a shakedown tactic meant to maximize sales, that’s just a side benefit.

And while you may be able to defy them and deal with the consequences, I am in no position to forfeit my DL and fight “City Hall” to get it back. As they say nowadays, that is not the hill I want to die on.


32 posted on 01/18/2013 9:33:50 AM PST by HomeAtLast ( You're either with the Tea Party, or you're with the EBT Party.)
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