Posted on 01/17/2013 2:16:28 AM PST by Kaslin
Of course. I was speaking about you.
I think you need to do some soul searching.
You? You, who have no reflection, think I should do some "soul searching"? Yeah, right.
I noted with interest today that Barky got sworn in while standing beneath the portrait of one of the above-named gentlemen (either Madison or, I think, probably Monroe) to be sworn in to his second fraudulent term of office.
Someone on his "historical correctness" police should have gone through the White House long ago to drive out all the profane images of the unclean, slave-owning Presidents. (James Knox Polk, who extended the United States to the Pacific Ocean under the banner of Manifest Destiny, was the last, I think.)
Obama should have been sworn in while standing under a portrait of that champion of humanity and honesty, Lyndon Johnson, instead. Or maybe Slick Willie.
“In your post 108 you did not pressure for evidence.
Accordingly it is you who are changing your story.”
You obviously thought I was asking for evidence, which I was, since you attempted to provide the evidence in your own reply, post #113.
Good try, donny. Next time just be sure that you aren’t the one disproving your own story.
“My understanding is that he came to own Nancy through inheritance from his mother”
Small surprise that you would have little actual knowledge of his history since that isn’t as useful to you as disparagement and scurrilous rumor. But then that’s just you expressing your character through your writing.
Lee’s father was famously bankrupt when Lee was a small child. His father died when Lee was 11 and Lee and his mother went to live with relatives. They had no assets and no inheritance, other than the ones in your well fertilized imagination.
The White House property belonged to the Washington-Custis family and Nancy and her family came with it.
Wow, he really married up, didn’t he?
“Your language is vile, your intention unjust, cruel, and utterly, utterly small.”
You say that as if that isn’t his goal.
And I’m not sure that you were being fair to Smeagol.
“Wow, he really married up, didn’t he?”
Not exactly. The Lees were a very prominent family and he married into the society that he was part of.
His father was Light Horse Harry Lee, who lost his fortune in the financial panic of 1797. His mother was a Carter, another of the first families of Virginia as were the Lees.
My language is polite. My character is noble. I have never been accused of beating slaves, nor of treason, nor of assault on another. Nor am I descended from a notorious deadbeat.
Unlike Lee.
And because his mother had no assets, does that mean that she never again had assets?
No.
Your protest is incorrect.
Lee’s own personal papers — which were pretty much unavailable for 150 years — show a drastically, profoundly, stupendously different view of Lee.
In fact, Alan Nolan, author of Lee Considered, says EVERYTHING we think we know about Lee, should be discarded, and start over.
For example, in Lee’s OWN HANDWRITTEN papers, he keeps obsessive track of certain escaped slave girls — mulatto girls. He paid six times his normal bounty for the return of one girl, about 13-14 years old, who escaped with her white looking child.
Lee’s bounty hunters searched for her for months, and when they found her, Lee had her bought to him, tied up, and tortured. He screamed at her during her torture — then rented her out to a plantation known for cruelty to slaves. To top it all off, he apparently sold her white looking child.
Elizabeth Pryor, author of “Reading The Man” had access to Lee’s papers. She adores Lee, and tries very hard to keep his halo on his head. But she reveals astonishing, baffling things.
She excuses what she can. She calls his torture of slaves “due to Lee’s poor cross cultural communication skills” — as if he could just talk to the slaves better, he wouldn’t have to torture the girls.
This is a man who had young girls TORTURED.
Not sorta, not kinda, he had them tortured, and while it was the law in Virginia to whip escaped slaves, Lee needed no law, he seemed to VERY much get into it.
Pryor excuses that too. She claims Lee “failed to appreciate his slaves desire to be free”.. Hello! How could he not notice! They kept running away! Despite promises of torture – which Lee made good on –Pryor said Lee had “an epidemic of escaped slaves”.
Who ever said Lee was loved by his slaves is goofy. Pryor says Lee’s slaves said he was “the meanest man I ever saw”.
Far from being against slavery, Lee was one of the biggest defenders. Yes, there is a letter to his wife, and in one sentence he says slavery is a political and moral evil — but the letter doesn’t stop there. IT goes on. Lee says the blacks are fortunate to be slaves!! He also writes that God knows slavery is cruel and painful – but pain is “necessary for their instruction”. And Lee was very willing to “instruct” they young mulatto girls.
Most stunning of all, Lee SOLD the white looking babies. Lee regularly sold the children of his slave girls. Pryor puts it this way “Lee separated every family unit, but one”.
Separated every family UNIT? Pryor deserves a lot of credit for exposing Lee’s torture, his cruelty to slaves — but the way she writes, you would think Lee just had a bad day. Lee could not sell the slaves themselves — due to the terms of the will.
But the will said nothing about the children born to his slaves. Pryor says he separated every family unit, and elsewhere she says all the female slave girls under 5 were gone. Okay — where did they go?
Did they vanish? Did they go up in a space ship? Pryor apparently knows, but doesn’t say. There is only so much the public could stand, Furthermore, her audience is wildly pro Lee — if she came out and said he sold white babies– and I mean this literally – her life could be at risk. Southern Lee lovers get that upset. Selling white babies? He would NEVER?
Oh, wouldn’t he? He would torture 13 year old girls. He would sell babies. What is he going to do with a white looking slave girl? Would he say “Oh my, this is a line I won’t cross” Are you kidding me?
In fact white looking slave girls — it was well known — sold for a premium. I will let you guess why. But whore houses loved to buy white looking slaves — more men would pay more money for that service. Books written AT THE TIME discussed this horrible reality.
But if he sold black women that would go to whore houses, and light skinned women, why on EARTH would he say, no, no this one is too white. Get real.
The real history of Lee has yet to be written. But then, the real history of the South has yet to be written too. Lee is very much a metaphor for the entire South, and the myths we have been told.
One more thing — If Lincoln’s papers were discovered, and showed he had young girls tortured, paid six times his n
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2011/04/scrubbing-the-confederacy-robert-e-lee-edition
Read some more.
“Funny thing is Lincoln didn’t have Lee hung, isn’t it?”
Kind of hard to do with a bullet in your brain.
When you find some evidence backing up your “she could have gotten some money” guesswork then get back to us donny. Until you do it’s just more of the speculation, half-truths and history twisting that you like to wallow in.
It’s well established that the Lees had no money and had to live with relatives after his father’s death. There is no evidence otherwise and you are simply making things up to further your agenda.
Are you as tiresome in your daily life as you are online? I bet your acquaintances find ways to leave the room when you walk in.
“I have never been accused of beating slaves, nor of treason, nor of assault on another.”
And since when is accusation equated with fact? Is that a habit you picked up over at DU?
I mean a few of us certainly accuse you of being dishonest and a fool. Does accusation equal fact then, too? Or are accusations ‘fact’ only when you like them?
Like a dog that returns to his vomit is a fool who repeats his folly...
“Nolan, who is a lawyer and not an historian (a fact which should be borne in mind as you read this book), attempts to put the romantic, mythological Lee “on trial” and expose him for the flawed and decidedly unheroic person that Nolan believes him to be.”
” Like a good lawyer, Nolan denies trying to “convict” Lee in the beginning of the book, and even states that he admires him in some ways, but the rest of the book reveals Nolan to be committed to “convicting” his target of several specific charges.”
“Nolan presents a good deal of “evidence” (much of it in Lee’s own words), but like a good prosecutor he leaves out “evidence” which contradicts his theories.”
“Dr. James McPherson, the famed Civil War historian and author of “Battle Cry of Freedom”, can hardly be called a “neo-Confederate” historian (if anything he’s pro-Union), but even he has some problems with Nolan’s book.
A few years ago he wrote a criticism of “Lee Considered” in which he “judged” Nolan’s “trial” of Lee, and while he found Lee to be “guilty” of being more pro-slavery than the Lee myth allows, he also found Lee to be “innocent” of prolonging the War and that Nolan failed to “prove” many of his other charges”
Could have made it a standing order.Stanton would have loved to do it.
So is it your contention that Lee did not make war against the United States? How deluded are you?
Lee himself applied for pardon, acknowledging it.
Didn’t you know that?
The persons who accuse me of being dishonest are themselves dishonest.
The persons who accuse me of being a fool are themselves foolish.
By contrast, the persons who recognize flaws in Lee and in the motivations and practices of Slave Power are using facts, and morally are on the side of the angels.
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