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Cops Are Outraged That New York's New Magazine Limit Could Apply to Them
Reason ^ | Jan. 18, 2013 | Jacob Sullum

Posted on 01/21/2013 2:56:23 PM PST by neverdem

In my column this week, I asked why police officers should be allowed to have so-called high-capacity magazines if they have no defensive value. Since "no one needs" to fire more than X number of rounds before reloading (and assuming that "need" should define what people are allowed to possess), why not apply the same limit to everyone? It looks like the New York legislature, which this week reduced the state's magazine limit from 10 rounds to seven, did take an evenhanded approach—but only by accident. According to DNAinfo.com and WABC, the ABC station in New York, legislators were in such a rush to impose new gun restrictions that they forgot to exempt active-duty and retired law enforcement officers from the new magazine rule. Whoops.

Cops are complaining about the lack of a double standard:

"As a law enforcement officer for over 20 years, I understand the importance of instituting a new policy on mandating the limits of bullets that a regular citizen can possess, but as a matter of fact the bad guys are not going to follow this law," said Norman Seabrook, president of the correction officers union, the city's second largest.

"The way the current legislation is drafted, it actually handcuffs the law enforcement community from having the necessary ammunition needed to save lives," he said. "We must not allow this to happen."

Roy Richter, president of the Captains Endowment Association and a lawyer, said, "It puts retired officers in a position that the clip they were issued by the NYPD, carried for their careers and were fully trained on, is now considered contraband."

Michael J. Palladino, who is head of the NYPD's 6,000-member detectives union and president of the state's Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, which represents 50,000 members, joined in calling for Cuomo and the legislature to immediately amend the law.

"Gun reform must prevent criminals and the deranged from getting illegal weapons—not restrict law-abiding retired cops from protecting themselves and the public," Palladino said.

"I support the governor in gun reform, however the new legislation restricts law enforcement officers who retire, and that could jeopardize the safety of the public."

DNAinfo.com calls the absence of a law-enforcement exemption a "loophole in the law," but in fact it is the very opposite of a loophole: Cops are outraged at the possibility that they might be treated the same as "a regular citizen" under the law. One has to wonder: If, as Seabrook says, the new magazine limit will have no impact on criminals and if, as Seabrook and Palladino agree, more than seven rounds sometimes are necessary to "save lives," what justification can there be for imposing this arbitrary restriction not just on "law-abiding retired cops" but on law-abiding citizens in general?

A spokesman for Gov. Andrew Cuomo told WABC, "We are still working out some details of the law, and the exemption will be included. Currently no police officer is in violation." I'm not sure why he says that, since the part of the law that bans pre-existing magazines holding more than 10 rounds is "effective immediately." According to WABC, "Nearly every law enforcement agency in the state carries handguns that have a 15-round capacity." The provision covering magazines that hold eight, nine, or 10 rounds takes effect on April 15. Contrary to what Richter says, such magazines won't actually be "contraband" for people who already have them, but their owners will be expected to put no more than seven rounds in them at a time. I am serious: That is what the law says. A prohibited "large capacity ammunition feeding device" is, among other things, a magazine legally obtained before April 15 that "contains more than seven rounds of ammunition."

It is implausible enough to suggest that a criminal—who by definition has no compunction about breaking the law, who is not legally permitted to possess firearms to begin with (if he has a felony record), and who is highly motivated to obtain the tools of his trade—would be deterred from obtaining a 10-round magazine by the legislature's new dictate, especially since plenty of them will remain in circulation. It is beyond fanciful to suppose that, having obtained a 10-round magazine, a criminal would think twice about putting more than seven rounds in it because legislators said he shouldn't. But in New York state, that whiff of a pretext suffices to abridge people's Second Amendment rights and, according to the cops clamoring for an exemption to the new limit, put lives at risk.

The Patrolmen's Benevolent Association says it is "actively working to enact changes to this law that will provide the appropriate exemptions from the law for active and retired law enforcement officers." State Sen. Eric Adams (D-Brooklyn), who is a former NYPD captain but nevertheless does not know which constitutional amendment protects us against unreasonable searches and seizures, told WABC he will introduce legislation restoring the double standard to which cops have become accustomed. "You can't give more ammo to the criminals," he explains. I thought that was the whole point of this law.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: New York
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; newyork; newyorkcity; secondamendment
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To: neverdem

What about me? Give the cops revolvers and regular people the glocks.


51 posted on 01/21/2013 3:48:50 PM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: neverdem; Joe Brower; CodeToad
"As a law enforcement officer for over 20 years, I understand the importance of instituting a new policy on mandating the limits of bullets that a regular citizen can possess, but as a matter of fact the bad guys are not going to follow this law," said Norman Seabrook, president of the correction officers union, the city's second largest.

"The way the current legislation is drafted, it actually handcuffs the law enforcement community from having the necessary ammunition needed to save lives," he said. "We must not allow this to happen."

"After all, we are elite government officials, and our lives are worth four times more than regular citizens, as everybody knows."

(Okay, I made up that last bit. But it's what they mean.)

52 posted on 01/21/2013 3:54:12 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: neverdem

Bttt.


53 posted on 01/21/2013 3:56:46 PM PST by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie
Give the cops revolvers and regular people the glocks.

That's what got this started. In LA there was a bank robbery and three guys were able to hold off the entire LAPD. The cops were hopelessly outgunned with their revolvers against these bank robbers.

They won't be under armed again. But they expect us to be.

54 posted on 01/21/2013 3:57:55 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: neverdem

And to think that if they *really* passed what they wanted, as a state rep has revealed, of complete confiscation... would be amazing to see the looks on the cops faces as their gov made this “mistake”, and outlawed ALL their firearms.

[... and they’d have to disarm themselves, to boot!]


55 posted on 01/21/2013 3:58:35 PM PST by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: Inyo-Mono

In a tragi-comic way it’s damned near hillarious. BTW, never let a cop tell you, you are a civilian. They are too.


56 posted on 01/21/2013 4:00:36 PM PST by SpaceBar
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To: neverdem

How many politicians have a wife and more than six kids? Seven round mags are fine.


57 posted on 01/21/2013 4:01:06 PM PST by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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To: Revolting cat!

They are limiting magazines in NYC and the ACLU is silent. Newsweak folded and Time is getting skeered.


58 posted on 01/21/2013 4:02:55 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Mears

In this case, richly-deserved.


59 posted on 01/21/2013 4:02:59 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: FLAMING DEATH

while there has been one or two nuts individually start a shootout in a police station, home invasions by one or more bad guys happen much more often.


60 posted on 01/21/2013 4:07:28 PM PST by rolling_stone
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To: goldstategop

What possible excuse can there be for exempting RETIRED cops?
Aren’t they just citizens?


61 posted on 01/21/2013 4:08:01 PM PST by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: austinaero

Heard some liberal again demand to know why anyone who isn’t a law enforcement officer would ever need hollow point bullets.

No response or defense was given as to why Social Security people would need hundreds of thousands of hollow points under Baraq’s watch.


62 posted on 01/21/2013 4:08:42 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: neverdem; Travis McGee
Seven And Thirty: In NY, tax slaves are worth one-quarter of a government overlord
63 posted on 01/21/2013 4:08:52 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

If I had been there I’d have gladly offed those two bums for the cops with M1A.

.308 in the head ain’t gonna feel good and I would have been ear down the street when I did it.


64 posted on 01/21/2013 4:15:01 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: neverdem

YOU DON'T NEED TEN BULLETS TO BLOW AWAY A CRIMINAL!!!

I'M SO NEUROTIC!

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW NEUROTIC I AM!?!

I'M SO NEUROTIC I COULD ONLY BE ELECTED IN NEW YORK
THAT'S HOW NEUROTIC I AM!!!

WOODY ALLEN DOESN'T KNOW WHAT NEUROTIC IS
THAT'S HOW NEUROTIC I AM!

65 posted on 01/21/2013 4:16:02 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: neverdem

Time to switch to belt fed weapons....


66 posted on 01/21/2013 4:22:17 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: The Cajun
the bad guys won't be carrying more than 7 rounds

WOW! You've hit on a GREAT point there. The cops don't need more than 7 rounds because the bad guys will no longer have more than 7. That's an excellent point.

67 posted on 01/21/2013 4:23:55 PM PST by Hardastarboard (The Liberal ruling class hates me. The feeling is mutual.)
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To: Vendome

Yeah, there was no excuse for that lack of planning. Not a sniper on the force? Would have stopped it in > a minute with head shots. WTF?


68 posted on 01/21/2013 4:27:34 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

LOL!


69 posted on 01/21/2013 4:28:40 PM PST by stevio (God, guns, guts.)
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To: neverdem

I normally support law enforcement and do not suffer from that rabid hate of them so often seen here. When my daughter calls 911, chances are those guys are showing up as fast as they can to help her. Car wreck, stalker, whatever.

But, something todays cops miss is that for most of America’s history the cops have carried much less firepower than the citizenry. This concept that the cops must always be able to carry overwhelming firepower when compared to us is a new thing.

And THAT mentality has changed how they deal with us. Before, they were usually bona fide representatives and protectors of the community. This is why they did not demand an overwhelming firepower, or expect a monopoly of firepower.
The current way of thinking is a subtle way of telling them they are a sort of occupation force, and that they never need to worry about pleasing the community.

So yes, the cops should have to revert to whatever magazines the civilians are forced to use.


70 posted on 01/21/2013 4:29:27 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: central_va

Since the NY politicians did not give this “law” very much consideration before passing it, the law probably does not explicitly ban belt-fed weapons. Therefor, they are probably legal. This would be too funny if it were not such an unconstitutional law.


71 posted on 01/21/2013 4:29:32 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Cyber Liberty

I remember that shootout. The perps had both fully automatic weapons AND body armor, BOTH of which are illegal, but since when has that ever stopped criminals. They finally just ran out of bullets and at least one committed suicide on camera.


72 posted on 01/21/2013 4:32:47 PM PST by Clock King
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To: Mears; All
Oh goody, another FR cop bashing thread. Should be interesting.

No, but maybe their Union who probably supported Obama and Cuomo when the rank and file do the hard work, and their SEIU overlords sell then down the river on so many things they believe in...

Perhaps they need Terry Bowman...

http://www.unionconservatives.com/

73 posted on 01/21/2013 4:34:00 PM PST by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: neverdem

Why do coops “need” more than 7 rounds? We have already heard for Rep Nadler that NO ONE “needs” more 2 or 4 round in self defense.


74 posted on 01/21/2013 4:34:31 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The only thing that Hollywood gets right about guns is that criminals will always get them.)
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To: Mears
Classy

Well, instead of just dropping snide comments, perhaps you could mount a reasoned defense of why cops should have large magazines to defend against multiple criminal shooters, but civilians should not.

On second thought, I see why you are not bothering to try.

75 posted on 01/21/2013 4:34:31 PM PST by dirtboy
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To: neverdem

Since when doesn’t “law-abiding retired cops” = “private citizen”?

I don’t recall retired military being given special preferences concerning what they can or can’t carry, yet their oaths remain intact and in effect, too.


76 posted on 01/21/2013 4:35:17 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: Clock King

Sniper rounds go right through body armor.


77 posted on 01/21/2013 4:35:29 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: neverdem
Cops are complaining about the lack of a double standard

Cue the "sad trombone" soundtrack.

78 posted on 01/21/2013 4:38:12 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: neverdem

There is no requirement to show need to exercise your 2A rights.


79 posted on 01/21/2013 4:38:51 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (There is no requirement to show need in order to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights.)
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To: neverdem
I remember years ago when the gun grabbers were pushing for the mandatory development and implementation of "smart gun" technology. The argument was based heavily on saving the lives of police officers who were killed by their own firearms when they lost them in a struggle with a criminal.
It was interesting that every piece of legislation that required guns to be outfitted with this questionable technology specifically excluded the police from having to use it.
80 posted on 01/21/2013 4:42:58 PM PST by Malone LaVeigh
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To: neverdem

Cops can have magazines. They just can’t take them out of the station house and in the station house they have to be kept 50 yards away from any gun it fits in.


81 posted on 01/21/2013 4:49:35 PM PST by DManA
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To: neverdem

Criminals need not take off their shoes now.


82 posted on 01/21/2013 4:51:51 PM PST by depressed in 06 (America conceived in liberty, dies in slavery.)
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To: neverdem
I thought someone had posted on here about the excuse being that cops are more often in dangerous situations. At least when it comes to the chances of being murdered, my quick research doesn't bear that out (assuming I didn't miss something that someone will hopefully point out).

In 2009 of a population of approximately 700,000 LEO's in the US there were 38 felonious murders, or 0.0054%. In 2009 with a population of 307,006,550, there were 15,399 murders with a 0.0050% chance of being murdered (when you minus out the LEO numbers). That is a four ten-thousandths of a percent more chance to be murdered than the rest of the citizens in the U.S. When you figure every one of those LEO's were armed, trained and have available backup, the citizens are less protected and even more so now if the gun grabbers get their way.

83 posted on 01/21/2013 4:51:59 PM PST by Chipper (You can't kill an Obamazombie by destroying the brain...they didn't have one to begin with.)
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To: neverdem

“Gun reform must prevent criminals and the deranged from getting illegal weapons—not restrict law-abiding retired cops ...”

What about law abiding citizens? I guess we don’t count. Cops are more likely to be wife beaters, commit suicide, suffer from depression and PTSD than average citizens.


84 posted on 01/21/2013 4:56:14 PM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

And the fun fact that everyone forgets about that shootout. Despite 650+ rounds fired by the bad guys through dreaded assault rifles, they wounded something like 18, and non of them died.

So much for the most lethal weapon imaginable.


85 posted on 01/21/2013 4:58:25 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
the first matches i shot were before 2-round clips(i have never seen one) so you had to "X" two rounds in the first eight rounder to get it to load properly then use a full eight rounder for the rest of your string...
86 posted on 01/21/2013 5:02:42 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Cyber Liberty

Meanwhile, Senior Airman Andrew P. Brown, age 25, with the 92nd Air Force Security Police Squadron, was patrolling the base’s housing areas on a bicycle when he received an emergency call on his two-way radio. He pedaled a quarter-mile to the scene and, while still some 70 yards away, spotted Mellberg shooting at scores of panic-stricken people in the parking lot.

He ditched his bicycle and ordered the gunman to drop his weapon. When Mellberg turned and shot at him, Brown dropped into a combat crouch and returned fire with his 9mm Beretta M9 semiautomatic pistol. He fired four rounds at Mellberg; two missed, one hit him in the shoulder and one struck him between the eyes, instantly ending his homicidal rampage. The drum magazine in Mellberg’s MAK-90 still held 19 rounds of ammunition.”

http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/mellberg-dean.htm

LAPD didn’t have a weapon overmatch problem, they had a settle down and aim at the head problem.


87 posted on 01/21/2013 5:05:45 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Mears
Oh goody,another FR cop bashing thread.

You're no better than anyone else.

88 posted on 01/21/2013 5:07:14 PM PST by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Me? When the smoke clears, I want to have a full 30 rd magazine still in reserve! Just in case.

In my old days as a tank gunner, I had 63 rounds available for my primary weapon, which was essentially a single-shot semiautomatic. The secondary weapon was the coaxial .30 caliber or 7.62mm machinegun mounted coaxially with the main gun, and known thereby as the co-ax. For which we had 6000 rounds in the turret tray and an extra 4000 rounds in ammo cans for a reload.

Those old habits die hard. And in my case, haven't died out yet.


89 posted on 01/21/2013 5:08:56 PM PST by archy
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To: neverdem

Another case proving unions are bands of useful idiots. If the ban of anything over 7 shots remains, then it should not have exceptions - it’s either a good idea or a bad one. Period.


90 posted on 01/21/2013 5:15:43 PM PST by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: archy

4000 rounds - is that five cases?


91 posted on 01/21/2013 5:22:39 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Travis McGee

Maybe cops just need more bullets to fire as they are lousy shots, contrary to popular and ignorant belief that cops are super hero gun slingers.


92 posted on 01/21/2013 5:23:41 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: neverdem
"We are still working out some details of the law, and the exemption will be included."

I always believed the time for reasoned debate and thoughtful consideration was before passing legislation. Unbelievable. What country is this, again?

Yeah, I know, we have to pass it to find out what's in it. This makes me sick.

93 posted on 01/21/2013 5:28:18 PM PST by FoxInSocks ("Hope is not a course of action." -- M. O'Neal, USMC)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

NY cops used to walk a beat, alone, no radio, no call boxes, post Civil War with only a night stick. Such was the respect they had. Now, a hundred years of political ENFORCEMENT, they need armor and military weapons. From Peace officers to law( really ‘legalism’ ) en-FORCE-ment upon the sheeple. But, hey, you take the king’s coin, you do his bidding.


94 posted on 01/21/2013 5:30:51 PM PST by Leisler (A trillion+ dollars a year printing fiat script=2% GDP. What happens when it stops. Or doesn't?)
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To: DesertRhino
LAPD didn’t have a weapon overmatch problem, they had a settle down and aim at the head problem.

Spray 'n' Pray.

95 posted on 01/21/2013 5:33:12 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: FoxInSocks

They had to pass the bill to see what was in it.

Ask Nancy, she’ll tell you all about those types of bills.


96 posted on 01/21/2013 5:38:15 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: Mears

I’ll assume you aren’t one of those ‘regular civilians’ addressed in the article.


97 posted on 01/21/2013 5:53:38 PM PST by Half Vast Conspiracy (Based on a letter from an 8 year old…school is now illegal…”cuz it’s yuckey and dumb".)
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To: neverdem

The cops don’t need them. There is absolutely no reason a cop needs any more armament than the average citizen. None at all.

Exemptions for LE in gun laws are Unconstitutional, immoral, and unjust.


98 posted on 01/21/2013 5:55:24 PM PST by BCR #226 (02/07 SOT www.extremefirepower.com...The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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The time is now
Support Free Republic

99 posted on 01/21/2013 5:57:37 PM PST by RedMDer (HEY LIBS! GUN FREE ZONE T-SHIRTS AVAILABLE NOW. I DARE YA!)
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To: neverdem
OATHKEEPERS.ORG

Click here to visit the Oath Keepers Website - http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

The Oath Keepers are a good organization that many people need to take a look at. If it’s an idea you see as important as many of us do, then start spreading the group around and doing everything you can to help them raise money for their outreach campaigns. A group like the Oath Keepers can have a huge impact on our future. Everyone can do a part in getting a group like this out their among the many who would obviously be open to it’s rational Constitutional mainstream Ideals. Below is from the Oath Keepers Website OATHKEEPERS.ORG

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God. Our Oath is to the Constitution

Our motto is “Not on our watch!”

Read complete description here - http://oathkeepers.org/oath/about/

*Even if you have never served in any of the above capacities, you are still welcome to participate in our outreach efforts and may join us as an Citizen Associate Member.

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100 posted on 01/21/2013 6:00:02 PM PST by ThermoNuclearWarrior (www.OathKeepers.org/oath/)
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