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Two-Thirds of American Gun Owners Would “Defy” a Federal Gun Ban
TownHall ^ | Jan 26, 2013 | Leah Barkoukis

Posted on 01/26/2013 3:38:11 PM PST by EXCH54FE

It’s safe to say Feinstein, Obama and the rest of the gun control gang face an uphill battle when it comes to limiting any Second Amendment rights. According to a Fox News poll, most Americans—both Republicans and Democrats—would defy any new laws that would take away their guns.

But on to Question 47, addressed to those with a gun in their home: "If the government passed a law to take your guns, would you give up your guns or defy the law and keep your guns?"

The response: 65 percent reported they would "defy the law." That incudes 70 percent of Republicans, 68 percent of conservatives, 52 percent of Democrats and 59 percent of liberals.

The good news is that it probably won’t come to this. Analysis from Bloomberg shows that if a vote were held today, Feinstein’s proposed gun control legislation, which would prohibit the sale or transfer of an estimated 158 “assault weapons,” would fail to pass the Democrat-controlled Senate.

At least six of the 55 senators in the Democratic caucus have expressed skepticism or outright opposition to a ban, the review found. That means Democrats wouldn’t have a 51-vote majority to pass the measure, let alone the 60 needed to break a Republican filibuster to bring it to a floor vote. […]

(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: guncontrol; secondamendment

1 posted on 01/26/2013 3:38:17 PM PST by EXCH54FE
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To: EXCH54FE

2 posted on 01/26/2013 3:41:30 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: EXCH54FE

How many will not register is the immediate question. The ban business is not going to fly apparently, until more Marxists are elected.


3 posted on 01/26/2013 3:44:36 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: EXCH54FE

52% of Democrats?

Thugs and gangbangers?


4 posted on 01/26/2013 3:45:52 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: EXCH54FE

They need to first confiscate all of the criminals’ guns.


5 posted on 01/26/2013 3:59:15 PM PST by lurk
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To: EXCH54FE

It will be incremental so they can slowly gain control.

First assault weapons but nobody really cares because they are military type.

Then handguns but nobody really cares because they still have shotguns.

and so forth.

As far as I’m concerned I won’t be going one more step.


6 posted on 01/26/2013 4:00:30 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: EXCH54FE
CITIZENS! TURN IN YOUR WEAPONS! (Russian poster from 1919)


7 posted on 01/26/2013 4:11:23 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name! See new paintings!)
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To: EXCH54FE

>>>Two-Thirds of American Gun Owners Would “Defy” a Federal Gun Ban<<<

Which is actually the goal, in my opinion.

The totalitarian state we’re evolving into has learned from the crude examples of Stalin and Mao. A comprehensive ban on many kinds of firearms - but not all kinds - will create an immense population of lawbreakers, including not only those against the law but those confused by its complexity, but they’re not going to round everyone up. There’s no need. It’s a potential weapon that can be taken out and used on a case-by-case basis to promote friends and harass enemies. Stalin was wrong about creating terror. All that is really needed is a sense of confusion, unease and distrust. Sometimes people will be arrested, or fined, or merely bothered, just enough to be in the news or be held up in show trials. With the emotions of the population focused this way, those in power can consolidate what they have and prevent others from taking it away.

On the other hand, we’ll have all the porn we want, and probably enough weed to keep certain sections of the population docile. And it won’t matter if the weed is legal or not, either. That’s another tool that can be used to control people.

Ayn Rand predicted this in a stirring speech within “Atlas Shrugged.” Honest men can’t be controlled, so the state creates lawbreakers where no existed before.

God help us.


8 posted on 01/26/2013 4:19:09 PM PST by redpoll
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To: EXCH54FE

Only 6 Democrats oppose it?

That is a sin.

But how many Pubbies will sign on to it.What will McCain, Graham , and Rubio do?


9 posted on 01/26/2013 4:25:09 PM PST by Venturer
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To: redpoll
Many of those potential lawbreakers are warriors who are prepared to take the fight directly to our domestic enemies.

The time may come soon to choose to fight for our freedom. To simply lay back and wait until you have nothing left to lose is perhaps not the best course of action, but it is the easiest.

10 posted on 01/26/2013 4:34:09 PM PST by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
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To: EXCH54FE

There would be a rash of unfortunate boating accidents, I suppose. :-)


11 posted on 01/26/2013 4:47:48 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Pox
Many of those potential lawbreakers are warriors who are prepared to take the fight directly to our domestic enemies.

It will not be effective until the movement gets a good leader. Today the totaliarian government can be defeated by the power of PR that is now accessible to everyone for free. In Hitler's and Stalin's time the state was in complete control of every word in the news. Today it's the opposite, FR being an easy example.

Without the leader and without the PR the refuseniks will be taken down one by one, often even without a shot fired. The JBT will wait until you leave the house and then arrest you in the parking lot. They know that a lawful gun owner is not going to shoot at a police officer in the street. It's very safe for them.

12 posted on 01/26/2013 4:58:07 PM PST by Greysard
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To: EXCH54FE

This issue crosses political ideology far more than most.

At my club here in NY we have flaming liberals that are so pro-gun they are more militant than those of us on the right about it.

It has very little to do with political ideology at times when RKBA is concerned.

The idiots on the left have stepped in it on this issue. Cuomo stepped on his d*** also by ramming this garbage through.


13 posted on 01/26/2013 5:11:57 PM PST by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: EXCH54FE

14 posted on 01/26/2013 5:15:15 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: Greysard
There were no "leaders" at the start of the American revolution. Leadership grew out of the growing rebellion. A decade before, Ben Franklin was warning the British that the wouldn't find weapons but very likely would spark a revolution.

I personally am not one of those who believes an armed revolution is on the horizon but there is clearly a growing resistance and where it goes is up to our government, many of whom are themselves beginning to resist along with us.

Q. Can anything less than a military force carry the Stamp Act into execution?

A. I do not see how a military force can be applied to that purpose.

Q. Why may it not?

A. Suppose a military force sent into America; they will find nobody in arms; what are they then to do? They cannot force a man to take stamps who chooses to do without them. They will not find a rebellion; they may indeed make one.


Benjamin Franklin, Testimony Against the Stamp Act (1766)
15 posted on 01/26/2013 5:20:33 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: headstamp 2

Yeah, gun control is a prickly issue for democrats in Michigan as well. Guys like Conyers are safe no matter what they do but Lenin and Stupidcow have to face a far more diverse constituency.


16 posted on 01/26/2013 5:23:32 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: EXCH54FE
The only reason for registration would be to either reclassify the weapons as Class III (something that HAD been floated in an earlier version of this crazy legislation), forcing the owners to jump through all sorts of hoops, to passing laws that would require owners to purchase liability "insurance" that would be prohibitively expensive, or simply unavailable, requiring uninsured owners to "turn them all in."

Or to simply ban them, and go around collecting them. Of course, no matter what excuse they use would be to ban them in the end.

Mark

17 posted on 01/26/2013 5:27:34 PM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: EXCH54FE

Count me as part of the 66%.


18 posted on 01/26/2013 5:29:52 PM PST by Gay State Conservative ("Progressives" toss the word "racist" around like chimps toss their feces)
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To: EXCH54FE
If so many Americans would defy a gun ban, why do they keep electing assholes to office who want to impose a ban?

It's a puzzle I cannot solve.

19 posted on 01/26/2013 5:31:15 PM PST by stboz
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To: EXCH54FE

solves my worry of out living my savings.


20 posted on 01/26/2013 5:36:00 PM PST by hadaclueonce (you are paying 12% more for fuel because of Ethanol. Smile big Corn Lobby,)
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To: stboz

I don’t get it either.


21 posted on 01/26/2013 5:38:52 PM PST by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: EXCH54FE

If the country wants ANY restrictive gun laws then the ONLY method to legally achieve that goal is to go through the Amendment process. Any other law, regulation, rule is a immediate and obvious violation of “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”.

There is no legal way around this but they have been infringing on the 2nd for decades and the American public, poorly educated in unionized public schools, are so completely ignorant of the Founding documents that they are easily swayed by slick talking shyster lawyers turned politicians.

How can any law, rule, regulation possibly stand up to “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” as that is an absolute. Of all the language in the Founding documents, “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” is the most unambiguous yet we have allowed the RTKBA to be rendered almost moot.


22 posted on 01/26/2013 5:39:21 PM PST by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: redpoll
The totalitarian state we’re evolving into has learned from the crude examples of Stalin and Mao.

This is not Russia or China. They both have long histories of being subjects accustomed to being told what to do. We, for the most part, are a differeant people. Gun sales should tell you that. Obama and the 'progressives' have no idea of the hell they will unleash on themselves if they try to push this. Many people are getting truly fed up with them.

23 posted on 01/26/2013 5:41:25 PM PST by tbpiper
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To: GeronL

There are four groups of Americans that they consider dangerous. The more of these groups you belong too, the greater the focus will be on disarming you.

1. Christians
2. Southerners
3. Whites
4. Males


24 posted on 01/26/2013 5:43:34 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: EXCH54FE
We got what you call a `failure to communicate' with some a them pointyheaded liberals out there. What them Greek old boys used to say, `Molon labe' ... you evah heard a that? Well, it don't mean `Where does we take them.' No suh.
25 posted on 01/26/2013 5:47:31 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: driftdiver
It will be incremental so they can slowly gain control.

First assault weapons but nobody really cares because they are military type.

"The semi-automatic weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons — anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun — can only increase that chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons." — Josh Sugarman, 1988, Violence Policy Center.

In other words, banners like Josh (formerly one of the head honchos at the "National Coalition to ban Handguns") are depending on the ignorance of the public and continued support of the ministry of propaganda, along with the government itself, to spread the ignorance.

Mark

26 posted on 01/26/2013 5:48:20 PM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: SampleMan

Veteran


27 posted on 01/26/2013 5:48:59 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/?)
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To: Greysard
Nonsense. That is a defeatist attitude.

A "primary" leader is only going to be a primary target for our enemies and will have a very short tenure. Small groups are going to be the order of the day against the government at first.

Considering the tens of millions of armed citizens in this country your one by one scenario would take several hundred years to complete, if not much longer, so that doesn't seem very realistic either.

Once the federal government goes full on tyrannical and tries to start rounding up firearms, you don't sit back and wait for them to come for you, you take the fight directly to them, and asymmetrical warfare won't be a pretty sight to say the least.

I think you underestimate the resolve of many patriots in this country.

28 posted on 01/26/2013 5:52:47 PM PST by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
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To: stboz

Massive, chronic, ingrained ELECTION FRAUD on the part of dems.

Google “votescam”.

Its a book by the Collier brothers. They exposed it election fraud way back around the seventies/eighties. They found that a party would rig the election by messing with the voting machines and by stealing the other party’s full ballot boxes and substituting full boxes with their party’s votes in them.

So there has been a lot of skulduggery going on for a long long time.


29 posted on 01/26/2013 5:53:13 PM PST by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: Venturer

>What will McCain, Graham , and Rubio do?<

.
Just make them an offer — any offer.


30 posted on 01/26/2013 5:57:57 PM PST by 353FMG ( I refuse to specify whether I am serious or sarcastic -- I respect FReepers too much.)
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To: EXCH54FE

Luv how honest Di Fi has been in her proposal to grab our guns, all the while exempting legislators.

Whack job.


31 posted on 01/26/2013 6:00:51 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: 353FMG

I feel that way too.

I will never understand how so many people who run for office can sell their integrity for the perks of office.


32 posted on 01/26/2013 6:22:01 PM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer

Are you sure that everyone who runs for office has integrity?

If they did, why are we in such a mess?


33 posted on 01/26/2013 6:51:19 PM PST by 353FMG ( I refuse to specify whether I am serious or sarcastic -- I respect FReepers too much.)
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To: Travis McGee
Note that the Supreme Court has ruled that felons cannot be required to register their guns. That would violate their 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination.
34 posted on 01/26/2013 6:55:38 PM PST by JoeFromSidney ( New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: EXCH54FE

(from 1999)

More from Down Under:
Government Gun Control Monumental Failure

California is about to suffer an anti-gun assault of epic proportions. Well intended elected officials are about to do fatal harm to the republic they are supposed to serve. Public safety will be endangered because of political hubris. Facts which contradict their preconceived (ill conceived) opinions will be ignored, and people will die.

I have received some interesting e-mail in the wake of my last column regarding the monumental failure of the Australian government’s gun ban. One of the most interesting follows:

Dear Sir,

I found your web site and was very interested in your reports. In particular, the latest Australian crime stats regarding firearms. You seem to be extremely well informed on events external to the United States, and as dissemination of information is critical so those of us who still remember what freedom of the 1950’s and 60’s was really like, I have attached an item below regarding the failed attempt to reduce crime by disarming this country’s law abiding citizens and patriots under the pretext of the gun buy scheme. Just in case you haven’t see this.

Cheers,
Ross Darben

He included an article from the Queensland The Sunday Mail, titled “Buyback blamed for illegal trade” by a Chris Grifith dated January 24, 1999. I have rewritten Grifith’s piece and added to it.

Grifith writes “THE $500 million national gun buy-back scheme has failed, Queensland’s foremost police weapons expert says. “This report mirrors the flood of communication I have received from Australia and elsewhere in support of my earlier column. He quotes an Inspector John McCoomb as saying the new government gun laws have served as a catalyst to solidify the underground market. Inspector McCoomb is quoted as saying “Once they’re on the black market, they’re there for anyone to buy.”

I have asked dozens of Australian groups to provide me with some insight into the level of non-compliance. We know from first hand observation that the Roberti-Roos assault weapon ban in California was mostly form, and very little substance. Long on perception.....short on reality. Californians did not comply. As a result, it is unknown how many law biding Californians are now state created shake and bake outlaws”. Inspector McCoomb, who heads the Australian Weapons Licensing Branch said Australians had handed in only a fraction of the weapons in the community. Gee that sounds familiar.

It was (and is) impossible to accurately calculate how many guns there were/are in Australia. Just like it is impossible to calculate the number of illegal aliens in California. However, the 643,000 (Australian guns) that were turned in, was chump change....... it “was a mere fraction of just two brands of now illegal guns in the country.”

http://www.calnews.com/archives/Metcalf13.htm

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

So it was actually less than 20%.

Is some dark dusty corner of the Internet is a page that talks about the final results of the California SKS confiscation “demands.”

End result was about six percent compliance. Another number that comes to mind is there were about 350 SKS’s turned in for the $230.00 “buyback.”

Keep in mind that the SKS at that time was around $100.00 and with some odd modifications AR-15’s were ok to keep.

Yet about 94% of Californians “just said NO.”

http://www.saf.org/pub/rkba/gt-report/gt-report_059.html

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24653

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BUYBACK+PROGRAM+FOR+CERTAIN+SKS+SPORTER+RIFLES+TO+END+FRIDAY.-a083632814

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24201

Invariably, registration leads to confiscation. Why anyone falls for the “we won’t confiscate” BS is beyond me, it is worse than Charley Brown and Lucie’s football.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BTW, if ANYONE can find that data on the FINAL results of the California SKS ban I would very much appreciate a link. I recall it was from around 2002 or so.


35 posted on 01/26/2013 7:23:57 PM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: Pox; cripplecreek
A "primary" leader is only going to be a primary target for our enemies and will have a very short tenure. Small groups are going to be the order of the day against the government at first.

A disorganized resistance will not be as effective as an organized one. Nobody these days (or a thousand years before) would even suggest that an army doesn't need a hierarchy of leadership. Someone has to see the large picture; the opposing side will have professionals doing that.

The purpose of the leadership is not to carry the banner in the front lines. The real goal of a leader is to help the men to do what they are supposed to do. In this situation the leader would be overseeing an intelligence network because you cannot win the conflict without knowing what your opponent is up to. Small groups (say, a group of ranchers) will be simply unable to gather that information because they are not present in cities where JBTs are sent from. At the same time, hundreds of supporters in cities, who see the deployment and perhaps even overhear the destination, do not know who in this or that area might need the notice. Who is going to build up a network of people with low power HTs and with iPhones sending coded messages? Not those ranchers, certainly; however a teenager who is familiar with technology can do it easily. A system of cells, passwords, reporting has to be established; what farmer is an expert in that? They will talk to a wrong man and the whole structure goes down.

Another very important area would be the PR war. All the misdeeds of a tyrant and his henchmen must be documented and published for the whole world to see. This is important - plenty of countries will have reasons, good or bad, to apply pressure to the dictator and to deny him the freedom of maneuver. No dictator today should be given time to send millions of citizens into concentration camps. With a smartphone in every pocket, everyone is a journalist these days. However "small groups" are not capable of presenting a coherent message to the world. They may not even have servers abroad - and that is a requirement for a successful PR campaign. Only the leadership can gather enough IT and Web specialists and establish contacts abroad, in neutral countries. A common farmer does not know how to buy a web hosting account in Sweden.

I do not deny that leaders may emerge. Probably that's the only way how leaders can be found. However the core message is that leadership is required, and the sooner it is formed - the better.

Considering the tens of millions of armed citizens in this country your one by one scenario would take several hundred years to complete, if not much longer, so that doesn't seem very realistic either.

Let's count. For example, there are 50 million people who refuse. (In reality I don't think there are so many.) Also let's presume that there is 1 million of LEOs of all kind (police, sheriff, national guard, regular troops, etc.) If each arrest takes two LEOs and 2 hours of time, each pair can do four arrests per day, or two arrests per day per LEO. That is 2 million arrests per day! The whole 50 million people will be arrested in less than one month. That is very realistic, time-wise. A better question to ask would be "where they are going to be incarcerated?" - and the answer to that plugs into the discussion above, about documenting the abuse and revealing the extent of tyranny.

I think you underestimate the resolve of many patriots in this country.

Resolve and support are orthogonal. The best fighter in the world can be lost in a forest without a map. Leadership provides maps. In an ideal case, a leader can just call for a general strike - and the whole country would grind to a halt. The tyrant would be forced to quit without any hostilities whatsoever, and it will take less than a week. A small group cannot achieve that.

You can look at AQ as an example of such a leader. They aren't leading in a good direction, but you cannot deny that they are reasonably effective in PR and in recruiting and in training. They develop and publish strategic plans, they design military actions, they procure weapons and ammo, they collect donations and put them to use. They are one of our opponents; however it would be unwise to ignore their strong aspects and disregard how they got there. Gaddhafi was controlling "small groups" for several decades; and then AQ waltzed in and conquered the whole Northern Africa in less than a year. A wise man uses every learning opportunity; that includes taking lessons from the enemy.

The command structure of "every man for himself" still may win, but the victory will be highly Pyrrhic. Organization helps reduce needless losses. Need to go to a certain city? You get a word about how to do it safely. A group needs materiel? The message will propagate until the resources are sent in. A raid is about to happen? There is nobody in the house. There is an arrest warrant on a certain person? That person disappears, and a completely different person, with different appearance and papers, materializes out of thin air 1,000 miles away. The history of the last century tells us that successful resistance networks were well organized; disorganized resistance was often wiped out.

36 posted on 01/26/2013 7:42:10 PM PST by Greysard
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To: Pox
A "primary" leader is only going to be a primary target for our enemies and will have a very short tenure.

People seem to forget, our founders spent most of the revolution staying out of reach of the British with George Washington being an exception. However Washington didn't lead all men in battle. The militias operated largely on their own in hit and run attacks with occasional coordination with the continental army.

During some of my personal genealogy research I've found letters of an ancestor who mentioned rumors of "Washington's" army headed their way and local militia members planning to join or fight with him while he was in the area.
37 posted on 01/26/2013 8:03:09 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Travis McGee

Only 2/3?

Heh!


38 posted on 01/26/2013 8:32:49 PM PST by Da Coyote
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To: EXCH54FE

No, they don’t want to ban them. Yet.


39 posted on 01/26/2013 9:01:57 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (There is no requirement to show need in order to exercise your rights.)
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To: EXCH54FE
"The proposed regulations would give local law-enforcement agencies access to the gun-sale database that is maintained by the FBI.The rules would also preserve records of denied weapons sales indefinitely."

From an article in The Hill posted on Drudge tonight. This is illegal but, hey, when you're king laws don't matter..

PA state police are also keeping an illegal database. ATF is illegally going to dealers and photocopying 4473.

Every gun bought that the owner went through a background check is "registered".

40 posted on 01/26/2013 9:09:41 PM PST by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: redpoll

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn - The Gulag Archipelago 


41 posted on 01/26/2013 9:14:48 PM PST by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: Greysard
Fighting as an army, yes, organization and support are crucial, but that's not what's going to happen at the outset.

PR will be of little value at the outset as the government has full control of most means of communications. PR will be of dubious value when guerrilla warfare begins, and that is from multiple angles.

Leaders will emerge as the conflict continues, but the type of conflict will determine how effective and necessary they are at the beginning.

Concerning rounding up those who are rebelling, your scenario is absurd. I absolutely and sincerely hope they are stupid enough to employ your tactic. Your vision in that regard would mean the rapid elimination of government forces in next to no time flat.

Your scenario(s) envisage an economy and society that is unaffected by the conflict that will be raging amongst them.

Suppose 30,000 patriots go on the offensive all across the country once the government begins to attempt disarming civilians. What happens to the economy under such a circumstance? What happens to the enemies logistics?

Chaos will reign, IMO, and it is going to get very ugly across most of the country in a very short amount of time. Tens of millions of Americans will likely perish before it is over. Civilization as we know it can come to a screeching halt when electricity is no longer a reliable commodity, not to mention food and water.

If you believe that my hypothesis is unrealistic, I would like to point out to you that there are thousands of patriots who were trained to organize and “lead” those who are motivated but lack the skills or knowledge necessary to take the fight to the enemy, and most of those will be what you could call “cell” leaders all over this country. We trained them to do these things, and the overwhelming majority of them could be considered “oath keepers” who strongly believe in the U.S. Constitution and the oath they took when they joined our military.

How things “turn out”, particularly from day one, depends on more factors than can be realistically accounted for, but the thin veneer of civilization that this country has enjoyed for so long can be peeled off in no time flat when survival is the primary goal.

42 posted on 01/26/2013 9:20:50 PM PST by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
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To: Pox
Concerning rounding up those who are rebelling, your scenario is absurd. I absolutely and sincerely hope they are stupid enough to employ your tactic. Your vision in that regard would mean the rapid elimination of government forces in next to no time flat.

True, I'm not hiding skepticism about where the 50 million prisoners would go in this country. However dictators in other countries had the same problem - and they solved it by burning the bodies (Germany,) burying the bodies (Cambodia,) or forcing the men to work until they fell dead (USSR.) I am highly unsure that any of those scenarios can happen here because the population is not that docile. OTOH, 110,000 Japanese were interned by FDR in 1942, with nary a sound from the rest of the population (as far as I know, since I wasn't around to witness that.)

PR will be of dubious value when guerrilla warfare begins, and that is from multiple angles.

The whole Arab Spring was running on PR from day one. It was essential to muddy the waters and make it hard to tell who are the good guys there. As result, islamists got weapons (illegally) and air support while the same was denied to Gaddhafi (and now to Assad, not that he is a good guy there.) Every revolution runs on someone's money. In the beginning it could be your personal stash of 1,000 rounds, but eventually you run out and have to transition to other sources. The government will make sure that you can't buy ammo or primers or propellant. Those will have to come from somewhere else. That's why external support of the uprising will be very valuable. I'd think that most countries would want to help the rebels, since *nobody* loves the government. We'll get help from Venezuela, I'm sure. But many of those countries will need positive PR to sell the notion of such help domestically.

Suppose 30,000 patriots go on the offensive all across the country once the government begins to attempt disarming civilians.

If they do it synchronously, in one day, all over the country, this message will be heard loud and clear. If they do it randomly, spread over a month, that would be 1,000 "terrorist acts" per day. Without right PR you can be the good guy but nobody will know that; if MSM has your face on every TV screen in the country with the label "dangerous terrorist" you will have a very hard time to explain your point to a frightened housewife. She will call 911 on you in no time flat. Without the PR you will not be a hero, you will be a criminal. The government, being an organized structure, with MSM in tow, can make it happen. The PR war may be even more important than the physical confrontation today.

If you believe that my hypothesis is unrealistic [...]

I believe it is very realistic. I only want to point out that if those patriots are not self-organized in some way, they will become an easier prey for those LEO who choose the dark side of the Force.

Yet another problem is lack of orders. Humans, especially honest and moral ones, are reluctant to kill other humans. In the army this is handled by strict obedience to orders; when the commander orders you to fire at the enemy you do so, knowing that pretty much all the legal issues are taken care of by this order (barring clearly illegal orders.) A soldier who does as told is largely immune from prosecution. But when a civilian rebel has to fire upon a person who hasn't done him any harm but only follows *his* orders, it becomes far more difficult. Lack of orders that one can obey will make it very difficult to fire the first shot of the civil war. In many initial confrontations the LEO will be coming in overwhelming numbers, so the rebel will have to fight without hope for survival... but if he surrenders he will live. It would be a tough call to commit suicide this way. Many will make this choice and take several LEO with them; other will choose to live and fight some other day.

I hope we never have a chance to validate those theories. However the developments in the society and in the economy are apparently irreversible; we are just one phone call from Bejing away from the USD being declared junk paper. Then many of our "friends" will gleefully stop accepting US paper - they will be instead preparing for carving the US up for debts that many administrations accumulated. They will send us ammo and weapons, but they will do so in hope that we will kill each other with them.

43 posted on 01/26/2013 11:24:02 PM PST by Greysard
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To: RitaOK
How many will not register is the immediate question. The ban business is not going to fly apparently, until more Marxists are elected.

Yes - I get the feeling they are merely testing the waters to find out where the opposition stands so they can start to whittle away at our ability to oppose/resist them. When this phase is over, they will point out how nothing bad happened to us and we need to just chill and trust them...

44 posted on 01/27/2013 4:22:45 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: EXCH54FE

I believe the number would be much higher in TEXAS.

The State of Texas will not allow them to enforce the New Federal Gun Laws inside the state.


45 posted on 01/27/2013 4:57:34 AM PST by Chief901 (Tyranny coming to an area near you soon !)
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To: EXCH54FE

Would it be a crazy ineffective plan if Sarah Palin was asked to be the grassroots spokesperson of the 2A movement across America and her plan is to adopt laws nearly the same as the Swiss?

Or if she started to “regulate” so to speak or to organize the actually real world citizen militias?

And would anyone follow her agenda should she say its time to march on our capitols demanding the eviction of Federal enforcers? To stand up against even the brought up defense forces at Washington DC?

Would anyone consider her the modern day Washington fighting against the British Redcoats?


46 posted on 01/27/2013 5:23:02 AM PST by Eye of Unk (AR2 2013 is the American Revolution part 2 of 2013)
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