Skip to comments.I Donít Like Marco Rubioís Plan
Posted on 01/30/2013 4:23:06 AM PST by IbJensen
There. I said it.
Youd be surprised how long it has taken to say this. Ive let multiple friends vet the various drafts of posts Ive written on this and they all wind up arguing with each other over the details. Is it amnesty or isnt it? Should we give a path to citizenship or not? We are getting in the weeds when the basics will do.
I think this plan is warmed over McCain-Kennedy and will do nothing to solve the problem. I say this as someone to the left of much of the readership here at RedState and the conservative base.
The GOP was smart to put Marco Rubio as the face of the plan because many of us like him personally, support him still, and consequently dont want to seem critical.
But the plan makes the actual problem of immigration more difficult to solve.
As Ben Domenech noted:
The McCain-Graham+Rubio/Flake reworked proposal released yesterday is another example of wrongheadedness: The senators would increase the scope of government instead of liberty, make normalization contingent upon border security (which just sets up another fight between interest groups on the border Republican says its not secure, Democrat says it is, etc.), and create employer provisions which 1) forces employers to prove a negative and 2) turns them into criminals if they cant. Oh, Im sure that wont result in any profiling at all.
On the specific plan, for lack of legislation, it is clearly written by a group of men who seemingly love government, but do not love free markets, small businesses, or individuals. It is a plan based on faith in government, not free enterprise or the American people.
The plan creates several policy fictions to hide behind.
The first policy fiction is a secure border. The White House will claim the border is secure. The Republicans will claim it is not. The border will never be made impenetrable and we will proceed down this distracting, argumentative line to no end.
The second policy fiction is premised on the jobs Americans wont do which is more accurately described as jobs Americans wont do at that price point. Employers must prove that no American could be found to do the job the illegal alien would otherwise do. This is impossible, absurd, and turns employers to liars in the pursuit of running their business. The aggrieved can turn on the employers and potentially cost them all sorts of civil and criminal penalties.
The most significant policy fiction is premised on the idea of reform. The plan does nothing to address the black market for unskilled, low cost migrant work. It does nothing to deal with the long delays in the present immigration system. It does nothing to actually solve our immigration problems, but hides behind the construct of comprehensive reform. Along the way, it potentially adds more people to already overwhelmed entitlement programs, but then that too is another kicked can.
The desire to just do something overwhelms Washington too much. This immigration plan gives orgasmic relief to that desire, but in all the hype and show does nothing to address the real needs of employers and the hopes and dreams of those still longing to come to United States whose wait will now most likely be extended and grow even more complex.
Immigration is an issue that keeps hispanic voters from trusting the GOP. Many call it a gateway issue. I get that. But pandering in the name of a solution does not actually fix the problem. This is just another policy debate the Democrats can use to get the GOP to fight itself. The GOP should pivot to actually fixing the immigration problem, not just addressing the here and now.
I’ll go with what Mark Levin had to say last night.
‘Chacnes are good no plan will be approved by Congress.’
That’s my guess as well.
This author misses the point, I dont care if they want to come here to work but we cant afford them :
1) on government handouts, will they make the 47% the 55%?
What tax rates will they pay?
“Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.”
A very true statement.
Regan gave blanket amnesty to illegals during his term and the result up to now is that millions more have come to this country because they were certain that another major amnesty would be granted in the future...and here it is!
Now, we repeat history again and after this amnesty many more millions will come across the border in order to be in place for them in the next 20 years or so.
Amnesty is simply WRONG! It is a “kick in the teeth” for those who played by the rules of legal citizenship in our country and those who are still in the legal immigration “pipeline.”
However, with the Brave New World Society, who plays by the rules anyway? That stupid old Constitution is nothing more than an outdated rule book and should be either thrown away or changed so that all may be happy and not weighted down by law. The morality of our society has already been destroyed so what the hell...........
Erickson, McCain, Graham, Rubio/Flake are not Conservatives in any sense, they are the worst sort of Republicans, worthless appeasers and should be run out of office or in Erickson’s case ridiculed as a fat fraud!
“It does nothing to deal with the long delays in the present immigration system. It does nothing to actually solve our immigration problems,..”
Why are there long delays? Could it be too many people are being let in, and we need to reduce the number of immigrants we let in to the country.
As to solving our immigration problems, it is simple: cut back on the number of immigrants let in, and vary the nations so not one nation or area of the world dominates.
This will allow new immigrants to assimilate rather than congregate in a region and drive out other races or ethnic groups, as is happening right now in southern California.
Sometimes the common sense route is right there in front of us and with a track record (as it has been done before here in this nation). What we have to avoid is doing a politically driven reform unsupported by the majority of citizens.
I was hoping the plan would not go past Congress, but I don’t know any more.
After only 3 Senators voted against John “Traitor” Kerry for Secretary of State I don’t trust any of them.
To me that was the most reprehensible act since Obamacare.
The Rats just want ten million new voters so they don’t have to rely on vote fraud so heavily. That last sham election really took all they had and they are scared they may not be able to continue to rely so heavily on fraud.
How come the USSR didn’t fool Reagan with their bad intentions, but Democrats in Congress did?
If the Democrats vote for it, you will know that its bad and gives us nothing for our side. Another Lucy with the football. Democrats won’t vote for anything unless it only benefits them and allows blame to be placed on Republicans. Its a one party system now.
Why is Rubio aligning himself with the McCain, Grahamnesty, Schumer, Menendez, Durbin criminal gang?
There cannot possibly be anything good behind this.
Right. There is nothing good about it at all.
The Republicrat Party is rudderless and laden with RINOs. There is no room in this tent full of fat pigs for the likes of a Conservative!
The "rights" illegals enjoy as "undocumented migrants" are far too many to give up:
If using stolen ID, citizens can be found guilty of a felony, illegal aliens are not;
Other such crimes are not punished equally for citizens and non-citizens;
As for other government benefits, housing, food stamps, etc. illegal aliens seem to be doing quite well in that category already, healthcare is free now, dittos education for the kiddies, especially in the states that grant driver's licenses to illegal aliens for the DMV is where one also signs up for those benefits at the same time.
Lastly, as to those pesky voting "rights," all one needs is a driver's license, dittos voting, i.e. "Motor/Votor Laws!"
Fix legal immigration and cut off welfare benefits for illegals. Then go to a Swiss style system of citizenship. Problem solved in three steps.
Make no mistake, this is about staving off making draconian cuts to the large senior voting block by adding needed revenue. The added voters are just a bonus.
Any plan that does not include E-Verify is a fake plan.
I know or have known a lot of illegals (they somehow get licensed as asbestos workers in spite of their status). They all have been loyal to Mexico, and would have gone back on weekends if given the choice. I live in deep south TX. One guy told me how great Mexico is. I asked why he was here. “Oh, I can’t make a living there”.
The local asbestos enforcement inspector was asked how these illegals were able to qualify for licenses (several crews on licensed workers and supervisors were picked up from jobs and deported). He laughed and stated if not for the illegals (who are nearly the only ones who will do the work) there would be no asbestos abatement crews.
Anything the grand zero likes is bad for America.
If it's passed by Congress the Democrat Socialist Party gets millions of new voters to implement their welfare state utopia.
If it does not pass, he gets to blame Republicans with the objective being to have total control of the Legislative Branch in 2014.
Meanwhile, the Stupid Party "leaders" are just mosey-ing along seemingly without a care in the world while the rest of us watch our wonderful republic go down the tubes ...
One of the oil companies I worked for employed three or four young men to help clean rail tank car interiors. That had to be the most disagreeable, ugly work imaginable. The cleaning process used a chemical to remove most of the baked on asphalt, then the guys would get inside with power grinders to get the stuck on chunks.
The company sent 75 percent of their pay to families in Oaxaca.
The only thing that is clear to me in all this is that Obama does not give a rat’s arse about Mexican illegals or what happens to them. He only wants this as a wedge issue to destroy the Republican Party.
I’m with Eric. Personally I think Marco Rubio is looking for a grand plan to use to launch his presidential campaign and immigration is it. Don’t look for the US House to pass this carpola.
Obama WILL put forward his OWN, flawed and defective plan. We MUST lay ours out there FIRST.
Having said that, a secure border is NOT an impossibility. The Israelis have done it and the Russians did it - over a much longer border.
“Guest Worker” programs are POISON. They create a permanent underclass of hostile, unassimilable ethnic enclaves with no investment in the American dream. There should be NO SHORTAGE of people WANTING and WILLING to come here to work and become Americans. That has ALWAYS been OUR model, NOT the flawed European adventure with the damn Muslims.
The “Guest Worker” program is a special sop to business interests which helped create this mess in the first place by deliberately recruiting and importing illegals.
ANY Immigration Reform package needs to address the children of illegals raised here who consider themselves American citizens - we can't deport them, the American Public would never stand for a mass Elian Gonzalez scenario.
Any Immigration Reform package must expedite processing of new citizens.
Any Immigration Reform package must mandate fluency in English.
Any Immigration Reform package should ELIMINATE “dual citizenship”.
Any Immigration Reform Package MUST impose draconian penalties on future illegals.
Any Immigration Reform Package MUST impose draconian penalties on any business which knowingly hires or recruits illegals.
Any Immigration Reform Package MUST eliminate “refuge cities”.
Any Immigration Reform Package must BAR future illegals from ANY benefits under American social support systems.
Any Immigration Reform Package MUST bar any but immediate emergency medical care to future illegals.
Any Immigration Reform Package MUST carry penalties for other countries which actively aid and abet violations of our immigration laws.
We have to understand that gang members, terrorists, and illegals are all part of the Democrat party constituency. They will never allow the border to be secured which would slow down their constituents from coming in.
The whole game is redistribution, collapse the economy, Cloward/Piven while using our money to get more voters.
The sad thing is that had we voted Kerry down we would probably have had an even worse choice.
Think, or read back, to the Eisenhower administration.
A million or so illegals were rounded up and shipped the hell out of this country.
There is no legitimate reason for illegals to be allowed free range rights in this nation. They are criminals who picked the lock or broke the door down and engaged in criminal trespass.
Most, if not all, are the scum of their societies. There’s no place for this trash in this nation. That being said, there’s no place in this nation for the current evil regime that is destroying this nation by degrees.
My guess is its a lot more than 11 million.
James T.Walsh had some good ideas in his book "Illegally Aliens: Counting the Uncountable". He claimed many more than 11 million, possibly three times as many.
Yes, yes; you sound like me describing what BHO2 is doing to our country. I know that BHO2 thinks his supporters are idiots and fools, taken in by his political confidence game.
I’m old enough to remember when President Eisenhower sent illegal aliens home to Mexico. He didn’t have to deport too many before hundreds of thousands more self-deported, and went back to their native lands.
It was successful over a half-century ago. It would work today, too.
It's going to be very difficult for the socialist left to guarantee to us that the border will be secured. And that has to come first.
If Marco can alert the voters what is really going on behind the immigration debacle all his work will be worth while.
Sarah Palin was let go by Faux by offering her a sub-standard renewal contract. Her sin was referring to the Bengazi mess as “shucking and Jiving” which was clearly RACIST to the left.
We are being picked off one by one, as we are spun in circles by offence after offence by those we support. (Rubio aligning himself with the McCain, Grahamnesty).
Axelrod has done his triangulation on us once again. We lose on all sides of the issue.
Once again this is why we are talking about immigration instead of the budget deficit and other things that the left loses on.We let them set the agenda once more.
Until we can find someone who can best this assclown we will keep losing on issues. He's a slick commie no doubt.
My take is he is doing his best to explain what is going on as best he can. He did all the major talk radio shows and is doing his best, IMHO.
I have no doubt and hope he will run as well.
Also we have made numerous mistakes since Ike. Reality is a bitch.
Our side does not presently have the power to get that job done.we are struggling just to get the borders closed! Much less send anyone back!
Palin will remain a huge influence in conservative circles!! Many of us love her unconditionally and will always support her.
Once again next year she will be responsible for getting many conservatives elected where we would have had even more socialists. Its gonna take a lot more the FNC to hurt Sarah Palin! Her support is deep and long and wide.
Well, attitudes have changed with respect to illegals, although conceptually I don’t disagree with you.
The Demographic realty is there is a growing number of Hispanic Voters. A lot of these voters have viewed the GOP with jaundiced eyes as an exclusive Anglo Club and supported Obama.
I don’t agree that illegals are the scum of where they came from - for the most part.
In a sense they are economic refugees. I know a lot of Hispanics. I can’t tell if they are here legally or not. But a great number of them are skilled craftsmen here in New Jersey - good carpenters, good masons and plumbers.
In very many cases here, the sons of Anglo craftsmen can’t be bothered soiling their hands learning a useful trade. Rather than follow in their father’s footsteps, they would rather play computer games and sit in an office pusing papers around. Their parents hire Hispanics who either know the trade, or are willing to learn it, and work hard.
A lot of them have gravitated towards once decaying urban centers and replaced blighted zones populated only with government welfare offices with vibrant communities selling Hispanic products, running Hispanic restaurants, etc. I can name a number of towns in Northern New Jersey which were once vibrant business centers, then abandoned by the Anglo business classes for the Malls, left to rot and decay, and then rescued by Hispanic entrepeneurs.
I can’t agree with you more about the evil bastard squatting in the White House. We have had bad presidents before - Johnson and Clinton come to mind. But this is the first evil president we have ever had - and he is trying to set up as a successor a kindred spirit - Hillary CLinton - to carry on with his anti-western, anti-Judaeo-Christian, anti-American agenda. And he wants to use any demographic sector he can reach to accomplish his objectives. We haev to foil him.
As the last election demonstrated, we NEED political allies and we NEED Hispanic votes.
The good news about these new citizens is that they are Christians not Muslims, and they DO want to work. That is what a great number of them come here for.
As for the chaff - burn it - kick them out. But keep the wheat and cultivate it.
I guess it is just inaccurate to generalize about such a large population and I may be doing the same thing you appear to be. I don’t know where you are from, and the demographic dynamics may be different there, but I basically believe that most human beings essentially are good by nature, have the spark of Divine Inspiration in them, and need only the proper guidance and encouragement to move in the right direction. The better angels of their nature.. and ours.
You mean if D.C. only followed the Constitution and enforced the Laws that it too passes (IE: No SS, No MediCare, 14th Amend, etc.)?
Ya don’t say?
No, thanks to any of these bills. The Laws weren’t followed the LAST time(s) it was tried, this time will be different?! I’m still waiting for the border fence to be completed, not some ‘virtual’ fence (WTF?!).
Obviously he agrees with their traitorous agenda.
Rubio is our best chance to crack the Dems in 2016. The last time around we bickered over Romney’s orthodoxy and what did we get?
Four more years of hell with this bastard in Washington.
Politics is the art of the possible and right now, Rubio is the best choice to beat Hillary in 2016.
A thoughtful response.
Puleeze, spare us this tired, worn out refrain that we hear every four years that we must support RINO moderates or those mean ol' Democrats are gonna get us.
You insinuate that Obama won because of conservative bickering. I say you are full of it.
Obama won because his pal Romney, a pro gay military, pro homo adoption, pro assault weapons ban, pro socialist health care Taxachusetts liberal took a dive. A GOTV drive that was so inept that its failure could have been intentional. Not as single word about blatant, widespread organized election rigging. Yes Romney deliberately lost so Obama could win.
A real conservative can bet any Democrat any day of the week. The GOP's job is to make sure no conservative gets the nomination.