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France Will Dim Its Lights to Conserve Energy (pull the plug at 1am)
NY Times ^ | 1/30/13 | MAĻA de la BAUME

Posted on 01/31/2013 4:32:04 PM PST by Libloather

**SNIP**

Under the new law, the interior lights of nonresidential buildings will have to be turned off an hour after the last worker leaves, and lights on building facades and in shop windows will have to be extinguished by 1 a.m.

Ms. Batho also presented the decree as a matter of public health. Artificial lighting can damage sleep patterns, she said, and also “cause significant disruptions on ecosystems by changing communication between species, migrations, reproduction cycles or even the prey-predator relationships.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: conserve; energy; france; francelights; lights
That's a shame.
1 posted on 01/31/2013 4:32:08 PM PST by Libloather
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To: Libloather

FYI - France makes 90% of their electricity by nuclear power...


2 posted on 01/31/2013 4:35:59 PM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Libloather

Paris. “City of Lights”. LOL!


3 posted on 01/31/2013 4:37:09 PM PST by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Great vid by ShorelineMike! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZjJk6nbD4&feature=plcp)
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To: Libloather

I realize that this is WAY BEYOND the comprehension level of New York Times reporters and editors, most of whom absolutely HATED MATH (just like public school teachers, by the way), but France is something like 80% Nuclear, the highest in the world (and without any major safety incidents, I might add).

Nuke power is base load. It simply CANNOT be turned down when load goes down, it takes days, if not weeks to lower the output of a nuke plant. So what happens? All that power that they STILL produce from their reactants ends up as heat and gets rejected locally. No different than light, as far as saving the world is concerned...it’s power. So, this is TOTALLY SYMBOLIC in that country - but hopefully, it won’t result in increased rapes due to cover of darkness, but I’m not optimistic.


4 posted on 01/31/2013 4:40:36 PM PST by BobL
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To: Libloather

It sure is a good thing they don’t have any crime there at night.


5 posted on 01/31/2013 4:42:11 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Libloather

The lights are literally going out in Europe.

Again.

Figuratively, Islam has been shutting off their intellectual, cultural and religious lights for years.


6 posted on 01/31/2013 4:48:25 PM PST by Uncle Miltie (Of the government, by the government, and for the government.)
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To: Libloather

Insanity


7 posted on 01/31/2013 4:48:54 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: BobL

France is a net exporter of power. All this will do is cause off peak electricity rates to go down for Spain. No less electricity will be consumed but the French will have to walk around in the dark.


8 posted on 01/31/2013 5:02:03 PM PST by RightOnTheBorder
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To: BobL
Nuke power is base load. It simply CANNOT be turned down when load goes down, it takes days, if not weeks to lower the output of a nuke plant.

It is true that Nuclear Power Plants are base load plants but it is not true that it takes days to lower out put. It can be lowered in a matter of minutes.

That being said Nuclear Power Plants are not good “Load Following” plants.

Varying power drastically over the course of a day makes it more difficult to control power.

9 posted on 01/31/2013 5:08:59 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Libloather

On the bright side this will be a boon to the burglary business.


10 posted on 01/31/2013 5:14:00 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

I won’t argue very hard with you...since you’re almost certainly right.

But answer this - does pulling back the rods actually “save energy” or do the reactants continue to decay anyway?


11 posted on 01/31/2013 5:30:08 PM PST by BobL
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To: Libloather
as usual the slimes gets it wrong, it's to cut down on light pollution not save energy...
12 posted on 01/31/2013 5:34:09 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: BobL

France can sell extra power to Germany as Germany phases out their nukes.


13 posted on 01/31/2013 5:36:03 PM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: Pontiac
On the bright side this will be a boon to the burglary business.

And astronomers!

14 posted on 01/31/2013 5:39:46 PM PST by zeebee
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To: Pontiac
On the bright side this will be a boon to the burglary business.

And astronomers!

15 posted on 01/31/2013 5:39:57 PM PST by zeebee
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To: Pontiac
On the bright side this will be a boon to the burglary business.

And astronomers!

16 posted on 01/31/2013 5:39:57 PM PST by zeebee
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To: Pontiac
On the bright side this will be a boon to the burglary business.

And astronomers!

17 posted on 01/31/2013 5:39:57 PM PST by zeebee
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To: zeebee

sorry for the quaduple post


18 posted on 01/31/2013 5:40:58 PM PST by zeebee
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To: 2banana

Interesting about nukes.
I just read a story that cheap nat gas in the US will likely cause the shutdown of a lot of older nuke plants rather than upgrade them for continued use.


19 posted on 01/31/2013 5:42:59 PM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
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To: BobL
But answer this - does pulling back the rods actually “save energy” or do the reactants continue to decay anyway?

By ‘reactants’ I assume you mean fission daughters which do decay and give off heat in the process.

The decay of fission daughter account for 5% or less of the reactors power out put.

Fuel can be conserved by reducing power. But as I said this is not the preferred way to operate a nuclear power plant. Besides complicating the operation of the plant raising and lowering reactor output places thermal stresses on the reactor vessel that can cause cracking in metal components and the reactor vessel itself.

Another problem with lowering reactor power to follow load is that it messes with the planned fuel burn up. Reactors are either on a 2 year fuel cycle or a 18 month fuel cycle. The burn plan has the plant running out of fuel in either the spring or fall when the electric grid is at its lowest demand. Mess with the burn out rate and the plant will shut down for refueling with unburned fuel. That means wasted money and higher cost for electricity for the consumer.

The best way to operate a nuclear power plant is to take the plant to 100% power and leave it there as much as possible.

20 posted on 01/31/2013 5:46:35 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: zeebee
And astronomers!

If its worth saying once its worth saying four times.

Just joking. I have done it myself.

And I love looking at the stars myself. I wish I lived in a more rural area. The light pollution here is not terrible but it does wash out the Milky Way.

21 posted on 01/31/2013 5:52:21 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Cyber Liberty
It sure is a good thing they don’t have any crime there at night.

The sandrats, like all other rats, simply LOVE the dark.

(But only when living in civilized, non-muslim foreign countries.)

22 posted on 01/31/2013 6:06:21 PM PST by publius911 (Look for the Union Label -- then buy something else)
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To: Libloather

Shouldn’t be that tough, seems like most of France is pretty dim anyway.


23 posted on 01/31/2013 6:26:01 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet
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To: Pontiac

Like I said, you OBVIOUSLY know this stuff better than me. So, thanks. My thoughts were in the right place, but I needed someone who knows the business to help me out.

Bottom line - it is silly for France, of all countries, to be doing this stunt.


24 posted on 01/31/2013 6:31:10 PM PST by BobL
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To: publius911

I was not aware criminals can see in the dark any better than law-abiding persons.

So the burglars flashlights should reveal their presence.

As for turning off the lights in a room with no occupants that is something many were taught as children.

And pray tell,what reasonable purpose is served by leaving business signs on when there is no one around?

I don’t advocate getting rid of street or safety lighting,but designing the lights so the illumination goes where it is need and ONLY where it is wanted is a good thing.

Further I suspect the heating and air conditioning loads are an order of magnitude greater than the lights that will be turned off so ther actual impact on the power structure should be minimal.Lighting is usually taken to be about one-tenth or less of the total load.The businesses shutting off production machinery or restaraunt cookstoves is a bigger spike in usage.


25 posted on 01/31/2013 6:33:01 PM PST by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: BobL
I needed someone who knows the business to help me out.

Yes you were right. Got a few terms wrong but the concept right.

Last I know of France was about had an 80% nuclear power electric grid. So they may be able to run in the off peak hours with out backing the nukes down. They can coast down some coal or gas fired plants.

RightOnTheBorder says in #4 that France is a power exporter so that also gives them an out let to avoid lowering the nukes out put.

The law doesn’t make sense to me on a number of levels (personal freedom first and formost) but it probably won’t effect the operation of the nukes.

26 posted on 01/31/2013 6:57:58 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Libloather
She says it's a matter of public health because artificial lighting can damage sleep patterns. Do the people sleep in the nonresidential buildings? Strange excuses I'm thinking and the police will be busier too.
27 posted on 01/31/2013 7:06:16 PM PST by potlatch
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To: Pontiac

Thanks...we both agree that this is simply a silly stunt, but as you say, if they’re careful, they won’t put their power plants at risk.


28 posted on 01/31/2013 8:02:01 PM PST by BobL
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To: BobL
Thanks...we both agree that this is simply a silly stunt,

More than anything else it is a gift to the environmental and animal rights lobbies.

Got to keep the coalition happy if you want to avoid those nasty no confidence votes away.

29 posted on 01/31/2013 8:14:19 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: BobL

Will they have block wardens like in WW II, going around on bicycles to check everything.


30 posted on 01/31/2013 8:17:16 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: Pontiac; BobL
Enjoyed both your posts. This no lights at night strikes me a very silly. It's more trouble and expense shutting power plants down then just running them 24/7. Particularly nuke plants. I guess natural gas would the the easiest to turn on and off but I'll bet the boiler will not like that much.
31 posted on 01/31/2013 8:37:14 PM PST by jpsb
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To: jpsb
Thanks

You are correct no boiler likes any sudden change in operating temperature and pressure. The stresses are huge and can cause ruptured tubes, pipes and occasionally the change in EM fields can cause transformers to explode.

You seem to be well informed. The new gas turbine generators are the best for handling changes in load.

However the newest and most efficient are called Combined Cycle Gas Plant. They link a boiler on to the exhaust of a Gas Turbine Generator. That hot gas exhaust boils water that turns another steam turbine generator. These plants make pretty much the cheapest electric power available.

32 posted on 01/31/2013 10:59:26 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Libloather

Under socialism, the city of light goes dark.


33 posted on 02/01/2013 4:16:44 AM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Libloather
Turn out the lights, the party's over
34 posted on 02/01/2013 4:44:05 AM PST by Bratch
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