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Joe Paterno family releases report
Espn.com ^ | February 10, 2013 | Espn.com

Posted on 02/10/2013 7:10:13 AM PST by Uncle Chip

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To: Brian_Casserly
However, that is not what happened. Paterno did know about 1998.

Are those facts in evidence, or based on inference and supposition?

101 posted on 02/10/2013 1:56:44 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: Uncle Chip; a fool in paradise

In his paternal role as a coach, Paterno should have seen the pattern!


102 posted on 02/10/2013 1:56:54 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Brian_Casserly

“”I knew some kind of inappropriate action was being taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster...” “

I don’t think there is any dispute that something happened that led to a coaching team member going to Paterno. “Inappropriate” is an opinion that covers a huge variety of actions. Never the less, Paterno reported it to those in charge.

You’re a n00b. I will help fix your statement...

“In my opinion, as a n00b, it is not credible to assert that Paterno did not fully comprehend what was going on after receiving two second hand sexual abuse claims against Sandusky in a 3 year period - the first of which was investigated and dismissed.”

“BTW: What is this fixation that some of you have in assuming I am new here?”

You are new. That is what n00bs are. It is a reminder to me that your feathers are still damp from your hatching and I should treat you as a fledgling - with understanding, kid gloves, some grace, etc. I am trying to do so, as you make blustery statements of certainty. I suppose I would have known you were a n00b, based on that alone, but I did check to see when you hatched. In either case, I understand.


103 posted on 02/10/2013 1:58:29 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: Colofornian; ontap
Ontap is referencing all those years where witness McQueary was bumped from grad student --> WR coach.

My understanding is that he came on staff 3 years after said incident. That's hardly a quid pro quo.

104 posted on 02/10/2013 1:59:25 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Colofornian

Coli,
I never said what you are implying I said. The distinction has obvious implications in indicting anyone for something. Either it happened or it did not. Either he communicated it or he did not. Based on his testimony, he communicated he saw Sandusky in the showers doing something inappropriate. No more, no less. In other words, what he saw and what he reported to Paterno were different.

From the kid’s point of view, none of that matters. From the point of view of indicting a man when he had vague reports, it is signifcant.
ampu


105 posted on 02/10/2013 2:02:07 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: NittanyLion
Actually I agree 100%, and if you talk to most Penn Staters they'll tell you that after Sandusky their anger is directed at an inept and self-serving board of trustees. There's a very strong argument to be made that the BoT and university president breached their fiduciary responsibility by failing to do exactly what you suggested above.

I read the local State College newspaper (the Centre Daily) for a few weeks during/after the NCAA sanctions came out, along with a local media outlet Web site.

One of the articles highlighted that the NCAA made it quite clear to these Penn State admins that if they refused to accept these sanctions, the NCAA would "ante up" those sanctions.

Now you can look at that two ways: That the admins were between a rock and hard place and didn't want "I'll see your...and raise you..." challenge...not wanting to accept such a gamble...Or, they knew that there was very little to challenge -- and in the overall scale of things -- with more Penn State officials going on trial...that things could actually turn worse with even more "revelations" forthcoming...

You need to understand how this all comes across to non-Penn State people: It makes it sound like you're being advocates for the very people who have been on trial...or are going on trial (Sandusky; AD Tim Curley; Prez Graham Spanier; Gary Schultz, Sr. VP for Finance & Business).

Are you defending any of these four for their actions or (non-actions when something actionable was demanded)???

106 posted on 02/10/2013 2:05:36 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Uncle Chip; All
ALSO in this Paterno family report:

In a separate part of Clemente’s written report, he called for an investigation into The Second Mile charity and said all former Second Mile participants who had one-on-one contact with Sandusky should be interviewed by a specialist.

Source: Feb 10 State College newspaper: Paterno family pledges support for child sex abuse awareness and prevention; FBI profiler calls for investigation of Second Mile

Please, Chip, tell us all of the formal and informal arrangements between Second Mile and Penn State, OK???

107 posted on 02/10/2013 2:11:42 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Brian_Casserly; smoothsailing; aMorePerfectUnion
Welcome to Free Republic. Did you sign up to join the big-mouths around here? I only hope some day you have somebody point at you and allege that you are a homosexual pedophiles, since you seem to think it's such an easy, happy-go-lucky thing to do.

The fact is, McQueary never told Paterno that he witnessed an actual rape. But the old man was creeped out enough by the possibility that his former assistant coach may have done something "inapproriate" that he did indeed send the matter up the chain of command to people who were supposed to look into it further. Those people failed to do so.

It's scary, all the big-mouth nobodies who love to crucify Paterno because they apparently think it's no big deal to point at a man and accuse him of being a homosexual pedophile. They never consider the ramifications of a mistake. (Obviously, Sandusky actually did turn out to be a homosexual pedophile, we now know.) But imagine if an accusation against a man turned out to be totally false, the result of a complete misunderstanding or even malice? What would they say then? "Oops. Sorry about that, heh heh."?

As far as I'm concerned, you don't make that kind of accusation against a man unless you see it with your own two eyeballs. Paterno did not. McQueary (apparently) did, although even that is by no means clear. (Anyway, I still don't get how McQueary, who was at the time in 2002 a 28-year-old employee of the university, has skated on this thing so far?)

All those years went by and no victim (or victim's guardians) ever came forward (aside from the woman in 1998 whose son came home with a wet head)? How is that possible? Like Paterno said, Sandusky had everybody fooled. Homosexual pedophiles are sneaky that way, by nature. I don't know how the cops investigate accusations of child molestation, but I suspect they do it very quietly and carefully. Actual victims coming forward would certainly propel the case.

Anyway, Sandusky didn't get away with decades of homosexual pedophile rape because Joe Paterno and a couple of other university officials looked the other way - - Sandusky got away with homosexual pedophile rape for decades because a hundred people, including his family and friends, his Second Mile associates, university donors and benefactors, and reporters looked the other way. Hell, even The Creamery made fun of Sandusky's affection for young boys with their "Sandusky Blitz" ice cream dish.

But no - - small people have more fun laying everything at the feet of Paterno.

FRegards,
LH

108 posted on 02/10/2013 2:12:35 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Uncle Chip
My understanding is that he came on staff 3 years after said incident. That's hardly a quid pro quo.

Sure it is. Universities utilize grad students all the time with their programs.

109 posted on 02/10/2013 2:14:13 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Revolting cat!
In his paternal role as a coach, Paterno should have seen the pattern!

And what pattern should Dr Jack Raykowitz have seen in his legal and professional and paternal role as Director of Sandusky's Second Mile Charity, whose kids were the ones molested by Sandusky.

He was/is a child psychologist with connections to the state department of child welfare. And he was told of the shower incident 2 weeks after it happened and was by law required to report Sandusky and did not and yet he still keeps his license.

Where is your rebuke for him and DPW??? or are football coaches supposed to do their jobs too???

110 posted on 02/10/2013 2:18:14 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Colofornian
Now you can look at that two ways: That the admins were between a rock and hard place and didn't want "I'll see your...and raise you..." challenge...not wanting to accept such a gamble...Or, they knew that there was very little to challenge -- and in the overall scale of things -- with more Penn State officials going on trial...that things could actually turn worse with even more "revelations" forthcoming...

Personally I think it was closer to the first, but with a heaping dose of incompetence sprinkled in. In truth Penn State's leadership mishandled this situation in every way possible, beginning with the 1998/2001 incidents (albeit limited to a few people at that point), continuing through the time a grand jury was convened and the Board did nothing to prepare a PR strategy, and ending with the bungled Freeh Report and response. The incompetence was so apparent that even an equally inept NCAA could sense the upperhand, and so they jumped in to score a PR win of their own.

You need to understand how this all comes across to non-Penn State people: It makes it sound like you're being advocates for the very people who have been on trial...or are going on trial (Sandusky; AD Tim Curley; Prez Graham Spanier; Gary Schultz, Sr. VP for Finance & Business).

Yeah, on some level I get that. Unfortunately these parties are viewed as a monolith by many, when in reality there are quite a few separate players/agendas involved here: Paterno's family is attempting to salvage his legacy, Gov. Corbett is desperately doing anything to get reelected, and the university administration is continuing to sit idly by. Theoretically there could be some Machiavellian plan for Penn State itself to do nothing and thus be able to deny anything other than compliance, but based on track records I highly doubt the people involved are that capable.

Are you defending any of these four for their actions or (non-actions when something actionable was demanded)???

No, certainly not. In my view there's enough hard/confirmed evidence available to say that Curley/Spanier/Shultz did execute a coverup. There's enough evidence about Paterno to provide good fodder for internet speculation like what we see here - but not enough for people like the NCAA or Freeh to state it as unambiguous fact, as they have a responsibility to uphold some level of due process.

In truth my argument isn't that Paterno is innocent, it's that the standard isn't met to find him "guilty". The portions of today's report that state that case resonate with me, and the portions that draw definitive conclusions of innocence seem like the mirror image of Freeh's report.

111 posted on 02/10/2013 2:22:35 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: Uncle Chip
What he knew he acted upon???

Really? You don't want to deal with the whole truth, do you?

Joe Paterno; "This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/joe-paterno-statement-2011-11#ixzz2KXMsmFYk

You should be ashamed of yourself for mindlessly defending the people responsible for failing to protect children. "Four of the most powerful people at The Pennsylvania State University -- President Graham B. Spanier, Senior Vice President-Finance Gary C. Schultz, Athletic Director Timothy M. Curley and Head Football Coach Joseph V. Paterno -- failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade," according to the report. "These men concealed Sandusky's activities from the Board of Trustees, the University community and authorities. They exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky's victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and well-being, especially by not attempting to determine the identity of the child who Sandusky assaulted in the Lasch Building in 2001.

112 posted on 02/10/2013 2:25:54 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (Carry a Gun, It's a Lighter Burden Than Regret)
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To: NittanyLion

(I appreciate your reasonable tenor / attitude in your remarks)


113 posted on 02/10/2013 2:27:06 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
You don't know what you're talking about, do you???

You don't know what "on staff" means, do you???

But don't let that stop you blabbering.

114 posted on 02/10/2013 2:28:31 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

Elvis Presley Fan Club members to this day don’t believe that their hero was a druggie. That’s the way the world turns.

Others, with a permanent chip on their shoulder, fail to recognize a pun filled sentence if it bit them in their face.


115 posted on 02/10/2013 2:28:41 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Colofornian

Yes, likewise and I was about to say the same. The civilized exchange is much appreciated...


116 posted on 02/10/2013 2:29:54 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: Alaska Wolf
With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.

What part of those words escape your understanding.

Can you make that statement???

With the benefit of hindsight, do you wish you had done more???

117 posted on 02/10/2013 2:34:43 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip; All
ALL: More on the "Happy" Valley "sexual grooming" culture...from their local paper yesterday:

State College psychologist accused of inappropriate sexual conduct with two patients

From that article: Accusations that a State College psychologist had inappropriate sexual relationships with two patients could cost the local doctor his license and subject him to more than $1 million in civil penalties. The state Board of Psychology has filed a formal disciplinary action against Richard Scott Lenhart, accusing him of 111 counts of professional misconduct relating to two long-time patients...According to the charges, Lenhart engaged in a pattern of sexual grooming and repeated sexual misconduct with the two patients over years of treatment. Both patients were survivors of prior sexual trauma and were seeking treatment, in part, because of that past abuse, according to the order. The Department of State said Lenhart exploited the patients, “re-traumatizing them in his role as psychologist.”

118 posted on 02/10/2013 2:35:44 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Revolting cat!

So then this whole thing is about hero worship being bad and so we should let someone be falsely accused as a cure for that.


119 posted on 02/10/2013 2:38:22 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: ontap

You are willing to slander someone without any evidence to back up your claim?

For those not paying attention, the Freeh report was garbage.

Now go ahead with your argument.


120 posted on 02/10/2013 2:40:43 PM PST by Delta Dawn (at)
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To: Colofornian
Well atleast there is a state agency taking action -- which is more than happened when a state agency found out about Sandusky back in 1998 -- AND DID NOTHING.

Educate yourself.

121 posted on 02/10/2013 2:43:43 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: NittanyLion; Uncle Chip; All
In truth my argument isn't that Paterno is innocent, it's that the standard isn't met to find him "guilty". The portions of today's report that state that case resonate with me, and the portions that draw definitive conclusions of innocence seem like the mirror image of Freeh's report.

Re: your comment above...Tell me what you think of this one comment made by this columnist back in Nov. 2011:
Penn State's Joe Paterno gets what he deserves

Columnist Ostler wrote: Several e-mailers demand, "Have you ever heard of due process?" The due process I've heard of involves a justice system and a legal trial. Paterno faces no legal action or charge. Legally, his rear end is covered. But there was no trial when Paterno was sainted, no jury declared him one of the noblest and finest college coaches of all time. The public decided. It's the same deal on the flip side...

Other graphs from that Ostler column: What is the over-under number on how many people have to know about a depraved predator working under their noses before one of them takes a step to stop the predator and protect the victims? Jay Bilas, the ESPN college basketball commentator, called it "a conspiracy of cowards." ... With responsibility comes responsibility... "With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more," Paterno said in a statement. That's pathetic. You need hindsight to tell you that you must do whatever you can to stop a dangerous criminal?

122 posted on 02/10/2013 2:52:08 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: bluetick

The Declaration of Independence went down in Pennsylvania (and in Mumia’s Philadelphia, for that matter). So what!


123 posted on 02/10/2013 3:01:36 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society: Rack 'em, Danno)
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To: Uncle Chip; All
Well atleast there is a state agency taking action -- which is more than happened when a state agency found out about Sandusky back in 1998 -- AND DID NOTHING. Educate yourself.

Well, I have ("educated myself") on Penn State and its culture/funding...

Apparently, according to this source: Pennsylvania State University... Penn State perhaps is now in the "double digits" % wise of being funded by the state Commonwealth fund:

Per this source: Penn State is a "state-related" university, part of Pennsylvania's Commonwealth System of Higher Education. As such, although it receives funding from the Commonwealth and is connected to the state through its board of trustees, it is otherwise independent and not subject to the state's direct control. For the 2006–2007 fiscal year, the university received 9.7 percent of its budget from state appropriations, the lowest of the four state-related institutions in Pennsylvania.[35] Initial reports concerning the 2007–2008 fiscal year indicated that Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell is recommending a 1.6 percent increase in state appropriations.[36] Penn State's appropriation request, submitted to the Pennsylvania Department of Education in September, requested a 6.8 percent increase in funding ]

So Penn State, given that probably now over 10% of its budget comes from the state, is a "quasi" "state agency." And yet, this "quasi" "state agency" did NOTHING re: Sandusky....

So Penn State simply takes the state's $ -- but is otherwise "independent" eh??? [Kind of sounds like a bit of "taxation without representation" (without accountability)]

Perhaps the Commonwealth of PA would be wise to drop Penn State funding altogether, lest its reputation go down with the college!

124 posted on 02/10/2013 3:02:23 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Uncle Chip
With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.

The Joe Paterno statement.

With the benefit of hindsight, do you wish you had done more???

I wasn't at Penn State. Rest assured, had I been, I would have confronted Sandusky.

Why are you defending people who failed in their responsibilities not only as adults, but as trusted PSU authority figures?

125 posted on 02/10/2013 3:03:51 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (Carry a Gun, It's a Lighter Burden Than Regret)
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.

Tempest in a cold cup of store brand teabag tea made two years ago.

126 posted on 02/10/2013 3:07:41 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: BlackElk

That was a long time ago. Didn’t Obongo win that state’s electoral votes


127 posted on 02/10/2013 3:14:15 PM PST by bluetick (If you're going to err, err on the side of liberty.)
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To: Alaska Wolf

Perhaps they should get there statue back so they’ll have something to pray to.


128 posted on 02/10/2013 3:15:44 PM PST by bluetick (If you're going to err, err on the side of liberty.)
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To: bluetick

their* statue

Grammar is hard.


129 posted on 02/10/2013 3:17:53 PM PST by bluetick (If you're going to err, err on the side of liberty.)
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To: Uncle Chip

I already posted proof that Freeh tried to interview Paterno and Paterno refused. You posted a link to some blog that quotes no sources and lies about Freeh not trying to interview Curly, Shultz and Paterno.

Your sycophancy is for naught.

Paterno is a guy who let a child rapist get away with it to protect his legacy. Nothing you say or do will ever change that.


130 posted on 02/10/2013 3:33:26 PM PST by free me
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To: Uncle Chip
acquitted Sandusky of the rape charge in this McQueary incident.

Didn't the jury find Sandusky guilty of indecent assault, unlawful contact with minors and endangering the welfare of a child in that "incident"?

Isn't that a fact that you continually ignore?

131 posted on 02/10/2013 3:38:45 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (Carry a Gun, It's a Lighter Burden Than Regret)
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To: free me

Page 53 of the Freeh Report indicates Paterno expressed a willingness to be interviewed but died before it could happen. This stands in direct contradiction to Freeh’s statement today.


132 posted on 02/10/2013 3:39:31 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: FlJoePa

The statements are not contradictory. They asked to interview Paterno, he said, (through his lawyer) he was willing to talk but not now.

Yet he had no problem interviewing with Sally Jenkins at that same time, also with a biographer.

Once again JoePa turned his back on Sandusky’s victims in order to try and protect his “legacy”.


133 posted on 02/10/2013 3:43:33 PM PST by free me
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To: NittanyLion

“During the investigation, we contacted Mr. Paterno’s attorney in an attempt to interview Mr. Paterno. Although Mr. Paterno was willing to speak with a news reporter and his biographer at that time, he elected not to speak with us”

Louis Freeh, in his response to the Paterno Report

“The Special Investigative Counsel requested an interview with Paterno in December 2011. Through his counsel, Paterno expressed interest in participating but died before he could be interviewed.”

Freeh Report, page 53

“Mr. Paterno passed away before we had the opportunity to speak with him, although we did speak with some of his representatives. We believe that he was willing to speak with us and would have done so, but for his serious, deteriorating health.”

From the Freeh July 2012 press conference


134 posted on 02/10/2013 3:43:56 PM PST by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: free me; FlJoePa
Yet he had no problem interviewing with Sally Jenkins at that same time, also with a biographer. Once again JoePa turned his back on Sandusky’s victims in order to try and protect his “legacy”.

(Interesting that the Joepologists somehow fail to mention this)

135 posted on 02/10/2013 3:45:10 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: beckett

Spot on. Well done.


136 posted on 02/10/2013 3:50:46 PM PST by free me
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To: Colofornian
Columnist Ostler wrote: Several e-mailers demand, "Have you ever heard of due process?" The due process I've heard of involves a justice system and a legal trial. Paterno faces no legal action or charge. Legally, his rear end is covered. But there was no trial when Paterno was sainted, no jury declared him one of the noblest and finest college coaches of all time. The public decided. It's the same deal on the flip side...

With regard to public opinion I agree. People are fickle and that's just the way it is. But I do draw a distinction between the statements of "the public" v those of people in positions of authority who should demonstrate more restraint.

137 posted on 02/10/2013 3:57:04 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: free me
I already posted proof that Freeh tried to interview Paterno and Paterno refused.

You didn't post anything of the sort. To the contrary this is what Freeh said on page 53 of his report and a subsequent press conference:

“The Special Investigative Counsel requested an interview with Paterno in December 2011. Through his counsel, Paterno expressed interest in participating but died before he could be interviewed.” Freeh Report, page 53

“Mr. Paterno passed away before we had the opportunity to speak with him, although we did speak with some of his representatives. We believe that he was willing to speak with us and would have done so, but for his serious, deteriorating health.” From the Freeh July 2012 press conference

If you are going to lie you have to remember what you said ------

138 posted on 02/10/2013 4:01:22 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: free me
They asked to interview Paterno, he said, (through his lawyer) he was willing to talk but not now. Yet he had no problem interviewing with Sally Jenkins at that same time, also with a biographer.

And yet that isn't what Freeh put in his report nor is it what he stated in his presser. He said they weren't able to interview Paterno prior to his death although he expressed willingness. Did Paterno defer the interview until later or did Freeh's team, or was it simply a matter of timing? It doesn't seem that any of us can say with certainty.

139 posted on 02/10/2013 4:01:59 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: Colofornian

Interesting indeed. What’s really sad is that many of these “joepa true believers” are otherwise intelligent FReepers of good repute.

I just don’t understand their behavior here.

In fact I think I’m going to bow out of this. There’s no point.


140 posted on 02/10/2013 4:04:59 PM PST by free me
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To: NittanyLion

Did Paterno interview with Sally Jenkins and a biographer in December 2011?

Did he interview with Freeh in December 2011?


141 posted on 02/10/2013 4:07:59 PM PST by free me
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To: Colofornian
Another of your baseless accusations.

What Joe Paterno said in that Sally Jenkins interview was available to Louie Freeh to use in his Report.

How much of it did he subsequently use???

142 posted on 02/10/2013 4:09:54 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

Chip I posted a quote from Freeh and linked to it. You posted some guys blog with no quotes or sources.


143 posted on 02/10/2013 4:10:48 PM PST by free me
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To: NittanyLion
With regard to public opinion I agree. People are fickle and that's just the way it is. But I do draw a distinction between the statements of "the public" v those of people in positions of authority who should demonstrate more restraint.

A reasonable statement; please remember, tho, that it 'twas also these "people in positions of authority" who signed off on putting the Joe statues up to begin with...

IOW, having been the edifiers who encouraged this personality cult, 'tis not surprising that they felt that whatever authority they lended to this "cult's" rise...they u-turned upon its sudden demise.

144 posted on 02/10/2013 4:18:29 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: free me
I posted a quote from Freeh and linked to it.

So did I.

I'll post them again:

“The Special Investigative Counsel requested an interview with Paterno in December 2011. Through his counsel, Paterno expressed interest in participating but died before he could be interviewed.” [The Louie Freeh Report, page 53]

“Mr. Paterno passed away before we had the opportunity to speak with him, although we did speak with some of his representatives. We believe that he was willing to speak with us and would have done so, but for his serious, deteriorating health.” [From the Louie Freeh July 2012 press conference]

145 posted on 02/10/2013 4:22:00 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Brian_Casserly; Uncle Chip; NittanyLion; FlJoePa; aMorePerfectUnion
Brian_Casserly:

Graham Spanier was president of Penn State since 1995. He arrived on campus vowing to make Penn State the most "gay friendly" campus in America. Apparently he succeeded beyond his wildest imagination. After seventeen years as Penn State president, do you suppose that "gay friendly" Spanier had influenced the selection of more than a few trustees???

Do you suppose that most Americans who could name a single person associated with Penn State, would name Joe Paterno, America's winningest college football coach or would they name Graham Spanier (probably a name unknown to 99+% of Americans?

The one known actual perpetrator of child rape remains Gerry Sandusky. He is doing hard time at the State Pen. It will get a lot harder if he is put into general population with a few hundred guys named Big Bubba. Prisoners really despise kiddie rapers.

There is no circumstance in which Joe Paterno is known to have failed in his contractual obligation imposed by Penn State to report exclusively to university higher ups in a well-established chain of command. At the top of that particular food chain was Graham "Gay Friendly" Spanier, but Spanier was protected in a sense since the chain prudently provided him with "buffers" to preserve his plausible deniability, as politicians might say since the days of Watergate. Joe Paterno was to report any information as to criminal activity ONLY to people such as Schultz and Curley. One of them (I believe it was Schultz) was a total civilian who was in charge of the Penn State University Police Department. Investigations by Penn State University police can be quashed at the outset when people like Paterno are forbidden to report directly to them but must go through CYA university civilian bureaucrats who are going to protect the university and its big shots (by which I do not mean 80+ year old football coaches).

Universities have their own police departments as a means of keeping conventional law enforcement off campus lest the university be embarrassed by negative publicity. If anyone called the Pennsylvania State Police, the Center County Sheriff's Office or the Bellefont Police Department, the uniform response would have been: That's not our jurisdiction and you will have to call the Penn State University Police. Paterno was contractually required NOT to report anything to the Penn State University police but ONLY to their civilian supervisor.

I very much doubt and disagree with your rendition of what you claim are the "facts" as to what McQueary observed, what he reported to Paterno and when he reported. There are also claims that McQueary has often changed his story even when under oath. I won't ask you to take my word for it any more than I am taking yours. I will further check and, if you are right, I won't be bashful about saying so and admitting I am wrong. For now, we are in disagreement on those factual allegations. Until I double check, I don't want to waste your time, my time or anyone else's in a tit for tat argument over what McQueary saw, heard or re[ported and to whom. I would observe that whatever McQueary actually witnessed, he had, if anything, a higher responsibility, IF he witnessed a crime, to personally report that crime to law enforcement. For him, as the actual claimed witness, to fail to do so is the felony called "misprision of a felony."

Louis Freeh's major credential in life is that Slick Willie appointed him to head the FBI. I don't remember Freeh doing a particularly good job at FBI. OTOH, I have never been much of a fan of GOP-E Thornburgh's either. It may well be that, whatever the facts, each of these lawyers was respectively dancing with the girl what brung him.

Additional items that are not yet referenced here up to and including your #59 is the curious disappearance and apparent murder (he has now been declared dead by the courts although never found) of Center County's veteran elected prosecutor Ray Gricar who disappeared in April of 2005. His car was found in Lewisburg in the parking lot of an antique store. His laptop was found relatively nearby in the Susquehenna River with its hard drive removed. The hard drive was found damaged beyond retrieval of any stored information about 100 yards further downstream. Gricar was believed to have been investigating Sandusky. I practiced criminal law for decades. I cannot imagine why it is that local law enforcement in Pennsylvania would EVER allow the investigation of the disappearance and probable murder of an elected official much less an elected district attorney to gather dust on the shelf.

Sandusky had set up a tax-free foundation: The Second Mile Foundation to arrange recreation for fatherless boys by arranging for them to be taken on various adventures by men including (surprise!) Gerry Sandusky. I would like to know whether any of Penn State University's big shots or trustees were, like Sandusky, "volunteers" for the foundation. Wouldn't you?

Most of all, I would like to see Graham "Gay Friendly" Spanier investigated relentlessly and, if appropriate, indicted, convicted and sentenced to the maximum available sentence in general population with Sandusky and Big Bubba X 200.

As a sports fan, I care almost exclusively for the New York Yankees. It would be nice if the Cubs would finally win a World Series for the first time since 1908. You could not pay me to watch basketball. Other than this year's magnificent ass-whuppin' of Notre Shame by Alabama, I have little to no interest in college football. I imagine that the pope rooted for Alabama as well. I have occasional but not very recent interest in pro football. My only connection to Penn State would be that I once drove past its football complex in the off season while driving through Happy Valley to visit Yalie college friends at their hobby farm a good distance from Penn State. I admire excellence and Joe Paterno apparently exemplified excellence as a coach and he deserves his reputation back.

146 posted on 02/10/2013 4:26:42 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society: Rack 'em, Danno)
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To: free me
BTW you are quoting Louis Freeh as a source as if he has credibility.

I have news for you -- he doesn't.

And you won't find much debate about that among thinking people.

147 posted on 02/10/2013 4:28:03 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: free me
Did Paterno interview with Sally Jenkins and a biographer in December 2011? Did he interview with Freeh in December 2011?

Yes and no, as you're aware. Of course the real issue is why he didn't interview with Freeh. For all we know it may have been Freeh's scheduling. And neither of us has that info, so it makes sense to refrain from posting statements as though you do.

In fact I think I’m going to bow out of this. There’s no point.

Well, you posted a factual in accuracy and seem unwilling to admit it. So I'm not surprised that you'd want to leave the conversation.

148 posted on 02/10/2013 4:32:07 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: Lancey Howard; Brian_Casserly; aMorePerfectUnion
Anyway, Sandusky didn't get away with decades of homosexual pedophile rape because Joe Paterno and a couple of other university officials looked the other way - - Sandusky got away with homosexual pedophile rape for decades because a hundred people, including his family and friends, his Second Mile associates, university donors and benefactors, and reporters looked the other way.

Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals: RULE 13: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

Paterno is the easy target, that's why so many focus on him. Those that do are at a minimum, lazy. This was far more layered and complex than Paterno's reporting what McQueary told him to his boss Curry and also Schultz, the head of the campus police.

149 posted on 02/10/2013 4:41:27 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Uncle Chip
Actual history:

"He died before he could be interviewed."

I hate it when that happens.

Alternative history (Oh, for what might have been):

In his never ending pursuit of justice, in the interests of preserving his legacy, and out of the deepest concern for the vile suspicions his family would have to deal with if he went to his grave before cooperating with a thorough examination from a skilled and experienced prosecutor, Coach Paterno invited Judge Freeh into his home as he lay on his death bed, and he answered each and every question Judge Freeh posed.

Brave Coach Paterno...such a brave and good man.

150 posted on 02/10/2013 4:41:58 PM PST by beckett (Amor Fati)
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