Skip to comments.Dresden deserves to be remembered
Posted on 02/13/2013 9:04:00 AM PST by Kid Shelleen
It's the 68th anniversary of the Dresden bombing. In Britain, we don't think about it as much as, perhaps, we should. The bare facts. More than 1,200 RAF and USAAF bombers attacked the city between the 13th and 15th of February 1945, in four raids. They dropped 3,900 tons of high explosive and incendiary bombs, killing between 22,000 and 25,000 people, almost all civilians. The city's anti-aircraft defences had all been moved to defend the industrial works of the Ruhr valley. The details are chilling.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...
The firebombing of Dresden was a war crime. It was a massacre, wanton annihilation in the vein of Attila the Hun. This “It was war” excuse is unmitigated BS like this whole WWII was a good war. It can’t be a good war when the war was prosecuted by that effete Communist FDR, the USA’s closest ally was the blood-soaked Soviet Union, and when the war was over Communism spread over half the world. Uncle Joe Stalin won WWII and the USA helped him do it. America is paying for it now as the Communists complete their takeover here.
And according to muawiyah, the way to stop that sort of thing is...to have moral outrage.
Like that will help.
The fact that force must be countered with greater force will not go away because you wish it so.
Sun Tsu pointed out what is required to not be on the receiving end of genocide when war comes that will bring it to somebody.
The Germans were bringing Genocide to a lot of people. Total war in kind was the only thing that was capable of stopping it.
I've ofter wondered why the bleeding hearts almost always fail to mention the blitz and the V2 rockets.
Dresden was a military target - moreover it was the best target for night-time bombers that existed at that stage of the war.
Bombing it was in no sense a war crime.
I knew that and probably should have stated so in my post.
But the deal was secret, and Stalin did indeed claim he was acting in defense of minorities in eastern Poland. And the various commie symp groups in the West supported him in this.
It should also be pointed out that the eastern boundaries of Poland were based not on any logical ethnic dividing line or ancient historical border but rather on the results of the Polish-Soviet War of 1820.
I was stationed in Heilbronn in 69/70. It was bombed several times during the war. In the City Hall building there was a model of the city in ruins, 62 percent destroyed.
It never has occured to me to question or doubt why or that it was bombed.
The city is on a major river, and presumably the target of the night raids by the Brits were military and/or industrial.
It appears the US and Britain bombed Heilbronn over the war years, night and day.
That is how wars are fought and won. Anybody unable to grasp this reality is living in a magical fantasy world.
I wish we were fighting that way in Afghanistan. Instead of bringing Americans home missing limbs or messed up from multipl deployments over a decade, we’d instead be killing civilians until the war was won.
We so thoroughly defeated Germany and Japan in less than four years, and they haven’t spawned more warriors or tried it again.
Contrast that with pinprick precision, sparing the mothers of future warriors, and what we get is permanent war with islam.
I’m a very strong supporter of killing lots of civilians in war.
Would that be a preference for easy targets?
Acckk. Make that the “Polish-Soviet War of 1920.”
Ah, the "they did it first" defense. If you read your history a little further, I think the race to include the civilian workforce as a target in WWII was already set by the precedents of WWI, where the Germans first bombed civilian London using Hindenburg-type airships.
In total war, both sides are guilty of escalation. The Germans were first to use trench gas attacks, then the Brits used them. The Brits were first to use tanks, then the Germans adopted them. It ends in horror, of course....and the resulting tolerance for inflicting and receiving it.
Of course, Stalin thought Finland was an easy target, too...
It worked for a whole city block in Boston, the SLA, Booth, Waco, etc.
an acceptable the preferred police technique in your book.
"Seeing it that way" doesn't make it true.
There is no moral relativism there though many make a case for such.
I agree. Once committed, anything less than conducting and winning a total war is a fool’s errand.
That, or picking a winner...
Don’t bomb Warsaw, Rotterdam, Coventry.
Strategic bombing never slowed down German industrial production and was practically a non factor in determining the outcome of the war. It was only good for one thing and that was the destruction of civilians.
If you want to make excuses for the incineration of tens of thousands non-combatants that's on you.
Congratulations ! You just justified the nuking of an American city.
The blood of Dresden is all on Hitler’s hands.
So true. This is another case of victimizing the perpetrator which creeps into even this forum.
The allies had suffered enough. IMO they can be forgiven for bombing the life out of the last remaining German industrial city if there was even a chance it would continue to contribute to killing their own.
When your loved ones' lives are at stake one can be forgiven for taking the lives of the perpetrators; in the situation one would laugh at the trial lawyers' argument to stop because there are some innocents among them.
Well, this is anecdotal, but my grandfather toured Buchenwald, right after it was liberated. He once told me that anyone who said they didn't know what was happening there is a liar, because you could smell the place from 20 miles away.
Hiroshima also deserves to be remembered, and to do so doesn't make one a "bleeding heart."
One thing most don’t about Buchenwald, is that after the war, the Soviets continued to use it as a Concentration Camp.
My grandfather used to speak at the men’s breakfast at the church about his experiences in WWII Europe. Of the things he spoke about often was the brutality of war and the amazing ability of humanity to come immediately after.
“it simply strengthened their resolve to resist. Now, tell me what part worked”
Sure the people who lived through it may have hated us and been determined to fight harder...but the 20K 40K however many that died had their will to resist reduced to 0. That is the point of total war
They certainly fought the Soviets harder, but in the West, they surrendered en masse.
Of course that probably had more to do with the stories of Red Army soldiers raping German women.
You seem to have a rather belligerent “name”, for such a passivist point of view.
We are sadly rapidly coming to the point where the only thing kids are going to wind up learning about from WWII will be Hiroshima and Dresden, and how “bad” we were.
So how would you have gained custody of Dorner? Please enlighten us all.
The issue of Poland is sad, but not as disgraceful as what occurred with Czechoslovakia at Munich.
The USSR didn’t invade until after the Britain and France had already declared war on Germany. The honorable thing to do would have been to also declare war on the USSR, but practically, they would have had zero chance of defeating or even defending themselves from an allied USSR/Germany alliance.
The USSR had declared that they were invading Poland to save it from Hitler. I doubt anyone believed that, but motivation was a moot point unless the Germans could be defeated first.
All of that said, the Germans left almost nothing in Germany to defend against the French. Even then, having declared war, the French and British sat on their hands until attacked by the Germans, who had time to reposition after taking Poland.
Had the French taken their tanks and airforce and attacked into Germany, while the German army was beginning its attack on Poland, they might have actually kept the Germans from taking Poland and simultaneously kept Stalin from jumping off into Poland.
They’re doing no such thing, and equating the questioning of what Jane Fonda said regarding our actions in Vietnam to the actions of the allies in WWII is intellectually weak. Anything Jane Fonda ever said is completely irrelevant to this conversation.
No one here is celebrating the Nazis, or celebrating the Japanese. They’re questioning the morality of incinerating thousands of civilians when that action would have no impact at all on the conduct of the war. I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified. It helped the Japanese realize they couldn’t win. Dresden? I think the case is not nearly so clearly.
Your “bomb them all and let God sort them out attitude” is, quite frankly, boring.
And when we firebombed Tokyo killing 100,000 people in one night five months earlier?
Failure of the United States ARTILLERY, or Snipers killing Adolph Hitler, in WWI led directly resulted in the rise of the Nazis and then the initiation of WWII.
The bat bombs we developed were for fire starting. And they worked well enough that they kept setting our stuff on fire. LOL
Too many Freepers, being conservatives, love history, and get sucked into the History Channel and its clones which haven’t produced any historical value for a decade but do produce and endless supply of revisionism, watered down education, and numerous tidbits and facts that are packaged together in hairbrained explanations of history that would have been laughed at by any serious historian (or literate critical thinker) a generation ago.
He has to eat. He’s going to get thirsty. He has to breathe. He’s going to need to sleep.
He is in an isolate area, he poses no risk to the public.
Deliberately setting fire to the building (Police scanner intercepts indicate that no less than 7 incendiary devices were used, and that the arson was going “as planned” strongly indicate that there was no intent to risk taking him alive)
Me? I would have been inclined to fill the place with CS teargas, or some related non-lethal agent (pepper gas, retch gas or stench). In a couple hours they could have had Gov Brown authorize use of national guard non-lethal area denial equipment, noise, dazzle, or heat.
But I don’t have a need to kill him before he could testify in court. Nor the need to impose vigilante justice on one who killed some of my own. I trust the courts and the legal system to render justice.
That the police don’t speaks volumes...
Stop adding logic and facts. You’ll confuse him. Any argument that we tried to minimize civilian casualties in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is a real laugher. (And I support the bombings)
Dresden was as ideologically pure as a German city could get. Untouched by the ravages of war, its citizenry remained as fanatical as could be by that point in the war.
Just as Eisenhower paraded German citizens through the concentration camps, Dresden had to pay its own price.
If the Nazis didn’t take over Germany, then the Communists would have.
There would have been war either way. The only question is who would have started it, Germany or the Soviet Union.
Yes, because stupidity needs to be nipped in the bud.
*shrug* Would most muslims hesitate for an instant if they had the bomb, and thought it would bring about a world caliphate?
Would Kim-il Unnngh hesitate?
Would China, if they thought could keep their fingerprints off of it, and they thought they could get the contract to rebuild?
I need a new keyboard now. Have to put the soda down.
Whatever you say Miss Fonda.
So don't start them......The Germans started it, we finished it.
Congrats!! Your bona fides as a complete and total intellectual lightweight are now confirmed. Did you stick your tongue out when you typed that too?