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Bombing the Syrian Reactor: The Untold Story
Commentary ^ | February 2013 | Elliott Abrams

Posted on 02/23/2013 8:09:08 PM PST by neverdem

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1 posted on 02/23/2013 8:09:18 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

In reading the whole article, I come away with a bad feeling about Condoleeza Rice! But then we haven’t had a decent Secretary of State for the entirety of my whole life! I’d be interested in other folks take on her.


2 posted on 02/23/2013 8:31:02 PM PST by vette6387
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To: neverdem

Thank-You for this thread, I have been wondering for years what that strike was about. Do you have any more information? I always thought that site held the “missing” WMD material.
Could it always have been part of the A.Q.Khan network?

When they said the Syrians bulldozed it days later I figured the site hard to be hot and pieces of the stuff were blowen up and spread around the desert.

One question or maybe comment.... Would I care if I killed 100 syrian kindergarden classes or a million to stop a program.... Not in the least, let me be the first in line. I really dont care how many jihadi children are killed when used as shields, they just grow up to be sucide bombers anyways.


3 posted on 02/23/2013 8:48:06 PM PST by 3clean
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To: neverdem

Great article, it highlights some questions about Rice though! Israel needs to act again soon!


4 posted on 02/23/2013 8:54:50 PM PST by Empireoftheatom48 (God help the Republic but will he?)
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To: vette6387
In reading the whole article, I come away with a bad feeling about Condoleeza Rice!

You are correct, but this is only one of many instances that does that. On the other hand, Defense Secretary Robert Gates is portrayed even worse.

5 posted on 02/23/2013 9:00:12 PM PST by Balata
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To: vette6387

She plays the piano well, but nope, no secretary of state. It would be nice to have someone with a military background in there but I doubt that will ever happen.


6 posted on 02/23/2013 9:11:48 PM PST by Karliner ( Jeremiah 29:11, Romans 8:28- 8:38"...this is the end of the beginning."WC)
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To: neverdem
This was an excellent example of how policy should be made. Several times, principals—Rice and Hadley, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, CIA Director Michael Hayden, Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Peter Pace and Vice President Cheney—trooped over to the president’s living room in the residence section of the White House to have it out before him, answer his questions, and see what additional information he sought.

Whew... A reminder of when grownups were in charge.

7 posted on 02/23/2013 9:14:31 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: vette6387
In reading the whole article, I come away with a bad feeling about Condoleeza Rice

Yep. The stench of the communist State Department got all over her.

Wanna bet she's an Ubama voter, too?

8 posted on 02/23/2013 9:16:36 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: GreyFriar

Important history ping.


9 posted on 02/23/2013 9:32:15 PM PST by zot
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To: vette6387
we haven’t had a decent Secretary of State for the entirety of my whole life!

Me either, and likely I'm older than you. I think that swamp would swallow a good man/woman. The only decent thing would be to fire them all and start over.

10 posted on 02/23/2013 9:33:54 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Balata
I thought I understood why Gates did not want the United States to bomb Syria: America was a steward of wars in two Islamic countries already, so striking a third one seemed terribly unattractive to him. Why he was almost equally insistent that we prevent Israel from bombing it was never comprehensible to me, nor was Rice’s similar position. It seemed clear to me that if we could not prevent Syria from undertaking a nuclear-weapons program, our entire position in the Middle East would be weakened, just as it was being weakened by our inability to stop the Iranian program. If there were too many risks and potential complications from striking Syria ourselves, we should not only allow but encourage Israel to do it; a Syrian nuclear program in addition to Iran’s should be flatly unacceptable to the United States.
__________________________________________

Gates and Rice were bad enough, but can you imagine what goes on today in the African communist's White House? Yikes...
Thank God for Israel.
I am certain Netanyahu is smart enough to trust the Muslim communist Ubama about as far as he can kick him.

11 posted on 02/23/2013 9:36:13 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: neverdem

12 posted on 02/23/2013 9:40:43 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: neverdem

Thanks for the very important post. BTTT.


13 posted on 02/23/2013 9:48:26 PM PST by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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To: D-fendr; vette6387
we haven’t had a decent Secretary of State for the entirety of my whole life!

The State Department has been a communist hotbed since at least the 1930s (this is a fact - - if you need confirmation, play around with Google for a little while and do the homework yourself) and I suspect Republican presidents use it mainly for run-of-the-mill diplomacy, cover for CIA desks, and foreign funeral arrangements, etc. I believe most Republican presidents are smart enough to keep the stinking State Department out of the loop on anything critical. At least, I certainly hope so.

14 posted on 02/23/2013 9:54:38 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Robe

bump


15 posted on 02/23/2013 10:17:10 PM PST by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: neverdem
When we found out about the reactor, it was at an advanced construction stage, just a few months from being “hot.”

With all the money we spend on satellite surveillance, cameras that can supposedly distinguish features less than ten inches, nobody in the intelligence apparatus of the United States knew that a long established and implacable enemy of a close ally was building something as big as a nuclear reactor?

Really?

Then why is my BS meter pegging again?

16 posted on 02/23/2013 10:20:30 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be "protected" by government.)
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To: Lancey Howard

Looks like Auma Obama, zero and Michelle, and although the colours are somewhat washed-out looking, he's wearing the same islamic garb in the image below:


17 posted on 02/23/2013 10:23:40 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: Carry_Okie

You are exactly right. This article still leaves part of the story untold.

It has been reported our first clue was an increase in electronic traffic between Syria and N. Korea.

There has also been a report of a defector with early information about this situation.


18 posted on 02/23/2013 10:44:47 PM PST by Balata
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To: neverdem
The president thought that the “low confidence” judgment would leak, as it surely would have, and the United States would have been attacked for conducting the bombing raid despite the “low confidence” report. That is a reasonable argument, but it explains only why we did not bomb—it does not explain why he urged the Israelis not to do so.

If Israel was going to do it, there is no profit in US complicity insofar as maintaining the status of "honest broker" in negotiations is concerned. Hence, even if Bush wanted Israel to take out the reactor, he would have to maintain even the internal position that he opposed to that and was instead going to the UN. It would take but one phone call to explain that to the Israelis.

Think poker.

So quickly did he accept the Olmert decision that I wondered then, and do still, if the president did not at some level anticipate and desire this result.

Well duh.

Think of how much more dangerous to the entire region the Syrian civil war would be today if Assad had a nuclear reactor, and even perhaps nuclear weapons, in hand. Israel was right to bomb that reactor before construction was completed, and President Bush was right to support its decision to do so.

All that ink on how Bush "didn't want" the Israelis to act and then he has to blow the cover at the end of the article. :-) 'Twas obvious from the beginning.

19 posted on 02/23/2013 10:47:41 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be "protected" by government.)
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To: Balata

See my post after this one. The White House is so leaky that a President must conduct a sort of shadow dance for public consumption, even inside the Situation Room.


20 posted on 02/23/2013 10:50:21 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be "protected" by government.)
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To: vette6387

No, I think Condi is still a female underneath all of her
responsibilities. Remember, it’s the women who always pay
the price when there is a war. They lose their sons and
husbands or they return home with horrendous injuries. And
when the war is over and they are on the losing side, they
can expect to be raped. The German women in Berlin paid a huge price when Berlin fell to the Russians in 1945.


21 posted on 02/23/2013 10:50:31 PM PST by cliff630
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To: Carry_Okie

In spring 2004, U.S. intelligence reported multiple communications between Syria and North Korea, and traced the calls to a desert location called al-Kibar.

The U.S. early info was 2004 and the air strike was Sep 2007


22 posted on 02/23/2013 10:51:24 PM PST by Balata
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To: neverdem; Yehuda; onyx; 444Flyer; MestaMachine; left that other site; F15Eagle; Jeremiah Jr; ...
There then began a four-month process of extremely close cooperation with Israel about the reactor, called al-Kibar. As soon as our own intelligence had confirmed the Israeli information and we all agreed on what we were dealing with, Hadley established a process for gathering further information, considering our options, and sharing our thinking with Israel. This process was run entirely out of the White House, with extremely limited participation to maintain secrecy. The effort at secrecy succeeded and there were no leaks—an amazing feat in Washington, especially when the information being held so tightly was as startling and sexy as this.

Bombing the Syrian Reactor: The Untold Story

No kidding. Never mind the fuss over the code name for Obama's Israel visit, *this* was the operation whose name was truly - and ironically - lost in translation.

Operation Orchard was

Operation PaRDeS

Peshat (פְּשָׁט) — "plain" ("simple") or the direct meaning.[1]
Remez (רֶמֶז) — "hints" or the deep (allegoric: hidden or symbolic) meaning beyond just the literal sense.
Derash (דְּרַשׁ) — from Hebrew darash: "inquire" ("seek") — the comparative (midrashic) meaning, as given through similar occurrences.
Sod (סוֹד) (pronounced with a long O as in 'bone') — "secret" ("mystery") or the esoteric/mystical meaning, as given through inspiration or revelation.

Boot the letter dalet (the Derash) and it spells פָּרָס.

Wonder if Iran is paying attention.

23 posted on 02/23/2013 10:53:02 PM PST by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: Balata
e U.S. early info was 2004 and the air strike was Sep 2007

No President with any intelligence admits to anyone how good or bad his intelligence really is.

24 posted on 02/23/2013 10:53:32 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be "protected" by government.)
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To: Ezekiel

IIRC, “pardes” is also a Persian word for “garden.”


25 posted on 02/23/2013 10:57:05 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be "protected" by government.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Yes. Pardes as a garden, orchard, the root for the English word for paradise... all related.


26 posted on 02/23/2013 11:18:22 PM PST by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: neverdem
I attended all these meetings as note taker, and the notes are under lock and key at the National Archives.

Yep, we all know how secure that is since Clinron's NSC advisor Sandy Berger walked out of the archives with classified docs in his socks and stuffed in his pants.

27 posted on 02/23/2013 11:32:56 PM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: itsahoot

later


28 posted on 02/23/2013 11:59:03 PM PST by itsahoot (MSM and Fox free since Nov 1st. If it doesnÂ’t happen here then it didn't happen.)
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To: Ezekiel

Thanks very much for the ping.
I’d best read the article and your erudite comment later today, given I’m just about ready to call this one a night.


29 posted on 02/24/2013 12:02:28 AM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: Ezekiel

mark


30 posted on 02/24/2013 12:39:40 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: neverdem
[A very well-placed Arab diplomat later told us that the strike had left Assad deeply worried as to what was coming next.]

The U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 threw the whole Middle East into a panic. Iran, fearful of where Bush might strike next, temporarily suspended its nuclear weapons program. Muammar Gaddafi, after watching on TV the capture of Saddam by U.S. soldiers agreed to give up his chemical weapons, end Libya's nuclear research and normalize relations with the U.S. Tragically the news media and Congressional Democrats became a literal Fifth Column, attacking Bush and vilifying the war.

31 posted on 02/24/2013 1:13:49 AM PST by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Court to Lisa Madigan: No rehearing on concealed-carry guns ruling

Majority of U.S. citizens say illegal immigrants should be deported

Getting Gored: Michael Mann's Extensive Interviews on Al Jazeera

Dorner Manhunt Reveals Police Contempt for Public Safety

DEMOCIDE: Socialism, Tyranny, Guns and Freedom

DEMOCIDE: Socialism, Tyranny, Guns and Freedom American Thinker is linking/hosting the video.

Infographic: How Criminals Guess Your PIN

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

32 posted on 02/24/2013 1:58:30 AM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Court to Lisa Madigan: No rehearing on concealed-carry guns ruling

Majority of U.S. citizens say illegal immigrants should be deported

Getting Gored: Michael Mann's Extensive Interviews on Al Jazeera

Dorner Manhunt Reveals Police Contempt for Public Safety

DEMOCIDE: Socialism, Tyranny, Guns and Freedom

DEMOCIDE: Socialism, Tyranny, Guns and Freedom American Thinker is linking/hosting the video.

Infographic: How Criminals Guess Your PIN

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

33 posted on 02/24/2013 1:59:28 AM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Court to Lisa Madigan: No rehearing on concealed-carry guns ruling

Majority of U.S. citizens say illegal immigrants should be deported

Getting Gored: Michael Mann's Extensive Interviews on Al Jazeera

Dorner Manhunt Reveals Police Contempt for Public Safety

DEMOCIDE: Socialism, Tyranny, Guns and Freedom

DEMOCIDE: Socialism, Tyranny, Guns and Freedom American Thinker is linking/hosting the video.

Infographic: How Criminals Guess Your PIN

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

34 posted on 02/24/2013 2:00:27 AM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: Lancey Howard

That is the exactly thought that was going through my mind while reading this whole article. Now think of the players involved in such a meeting today.

Yikes.


35 posted on 02/24/2013 3:39:56 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: FreedomPoster

The *exact* thought.

I really shouldn’t post before coffee.


36 posted on 02/24/2013 3:40:50 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: neverdem; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; ...

Thanks neverdem. Here's the popup I got from clicking on that "how criminals guess your PIN":
The server certificate chain has an unknown root certificate. The certification of this site cannot be checked. You might be connecting to a server which pretends to be "marketing.dell.com" to get access to sensitive data from you. You can connect to the server nonetheless if you are sure it is safe.
Here's the useful graphic:
Infographic: How Criminals Guess Your PIN

37 posted on 02/24/2013 4:17:17 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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Relations between the United States and Israel had grown rocky after Israel’s incursion into Lebanon in 2006, for Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice believed the Israelis had mishandled both the military and the diplomatic sides of the conflict.
Cundi also expressed her opinion that Israel is the Sheriff Clark of the current time, and supported Zero for Prez, twice, because of his skin tone, making her (not surprisingly) a racist.


38 posted on 02/24/2013 4:24:57 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: Ezekiel

“Paras”

Oh My.

That’s GOOD!

Isn’t “STRONG’S” Wonderful? And now it’s on line, which means I don’t have to schlepp around that Big Ten-Ton Book! LOL!

Amazing insight, My FRiend.


39 posted on 02/24/2013 4:46:26 AM PST by left that other site (Worry is the darkroom that developes negatives.)
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To: neverdem
At that point, Fayyad had been prime minister for about a month, and already the PA was changing. It now had a serious, talented, incorruptible executive at the top of the government.

What?

40 posted on 02/24/2013 4:46:36 AM PST by TangoLimaSierra (To the left the truth looks like Right-Wing extremism.)
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To: neverdem

-—— In the end what counts is output, not input: -——

What a great line. The current president gets bombarded with input an then dithers.


41 posted on 02/24/2013 5:16:45 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
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To: vette6387

Ping


42 posted on 02/24/2013 5:19:25 AM PST by Broker (Obama, the devils fart.)
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To: vette6387

“In reading the whole article, I come away with a bad feeling about Condoleeza Rice! But then we haven’t had a decent Secretary of State for the entirety of my whole life! I’d be interested in other folks take on her.”

I’m with you, Rice seems like a crackpot. One has to wonder whether she got her way (the same way) with Iran, which is why they are where they are.

Bummer - smart lady otherwise, but the State Department does that to people.


43 posted on 02/24/2013 5:20:34 AM PST by BobL (Look up "CSCOPE" if you want to see something really scary)
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To: neverdem

“...secretaries and executive assistants were kept out of the loop.”

Aw yes, “executive assistants”, basically Democrat plants that the Republicans are TOO STUPID to figure out.


44 posted on 02/24/2013 5:21:44 AM PST by BobL (Look up "CSCOPE" if you want to see something really scary)
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To: BobL

I’m with you, Rice seems like a crackpot. One has to wonder whether she got her way (the same way) with Iran, which is why they are where they are.

Bummer - smart lady otherwise

....well that may be true, don’t forget she was schooled in international relations by the same mentor as Maddy Halfbright, so no surprise that they both think the wrong way.

ymmv


45 posted on 02/24/2013 5:56:52 AM PST by ElectionInspector (Molon Labe...)
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To: neverdem
Once we made public our knowledge of the site, Syria could put a kindergarten right next to it or take some similar move using human shields. Military action required secrecy, and once we made any kind of public statement about al-Kibar, that option would be gone.

and there it is...

46 posted on 02/24/2013 7:41:08 AM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: SunkenCiv; All
"Here's the popup I got from clicking on that 'how criminals guess your PIN'":

The server certificate chain has an unknown root certificate. The certification of this site cannot be checked. You might be connecting to a server which pretends to be "marketing.dell.com" to get access to sensitive data from you. You can connect to the server nonetheless if you are sure it is safe.

I should have posted that image. I forgot that disclaimer. I opened that window when the forum was down for days.

47 posted on 02/24/2013 9:23:53 AM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem

It appears to have been one of the ads in the sidebar — when I refused, the ad wouldn’t load. Gosh, I really missed out on something. ;’)


48 posted on 02/24/2013 11:13:08 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: zot

Definitely Important. Thanks.


49 posted on 02/24/2013 12:44:54 PM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: vette6387

“I come away with a bad feeling about Condoleeza Rice!”

She’s been stupid regarding Israel for a long time. Annapolis made that clear in a glaring fashion. Add in her fawning over Obama and no more need be said.


50 posted on 02/24/2013 1:09:15 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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