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Splitting the Difference on Illegal Immigration (They can stay, but they can't become citizens.)
National Affairs ^ | Winter 2013 | PETER SKERRY

Posted on 02/24/2013 8:22:30 PM PST by neverdem

In the controversy over illegal immigration that has roiled our politics for decades, the image of "living in the shadows" has been invoked by all sides. For immigrant advocates, "the shadows" are where the undocumented are harassed by overzealous law-enforcement officers and exploited by unscrupulous landlords and employers. For many other Americans, "living in the shadows" conjures vaguely sinister intruders using public services to which they are not entitled and preying on law-abiding Americans through illicit activities and crime.

Yet regardless of one's views on the issue, this imagery is profoundly misleading. It helps to perpetuate the myths and exaggerations that have made our immigration debate so fruitless. Undocumented immigrants are hardly mere victims of economic or political forces beyond their control. But neither are they dangerous criminals or public charges lurking on the fringes of our society. Rather, they are responsible agents who have made difficult choices in a complicated and risky environment — an environment for which all Americans bear some blame.

These choices produce both beneficial and negative consequences for the nation and for the immigrants themselves. And our policies must contend with both sets of effects. If we are to find our way to a solution, we must examine the genuine predicament of the millions of illegal immigrants in our midst without ignoring the legitimate concerns millions of Americans have about their presence.

If we succeeded in removing the hyperbole and stereotypes from the immigration debate, our politics might open itself to a balanced approach to the problem: legalization for as many undocumented immigrants as possible, but citizenship for none of them. Under this proposal, illegal immigrants who so desired could become "permanent non-citizen residents" with no option of ever naturalizing...

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalaffairs.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; congress; illegalaliens; illegalimmigration; immigration; obama
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I know it's long, but it's worth a gander, IMHO.
1 posted on 02/24/2013 8:22:35 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

What part of “illegal” are these people having trouble with?


2 posted on 02/24/2013 8:27:21 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: neverdem

No, not a good idea. All of them have to be deported.

The argument from the left is that they are difficult to ‘track’.

Newt said it best: “The USPS, FedEx and UPS track 23 million packages per day while the packages are enroute and we can’t find 14 million people?”


3 posted on 02/24/2013 8:29:58 PM PST by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (Learn three chords and you, too, can be a Rock Star!)
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To: neverdem
Kennedy and other guffawing goofballs the last time the two parties reached an agreement on immigration "reform." Public outrage put an end to it. I'd oppose it if for no other reason than how those arrogant pukes behave.


4 posted on 02/24/2013 8:34:44 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise

I vote for making them very uncomfortable and deporting them when we catch them.

Last summer here in Michigan we ended up giving migrants welfare due to the lack of work caused by the drought. Now the farmers are claiming they need more migrants because the ones who got welfare have scattered.


5 posted on 02/24/2013 8:35:09 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: neverdem

OK, last time:

THEY DON’T WANT TO BE CITIZENS!!!

The desire of the illegals is to get a paper saying they can stay here legally. That ENDS the process for them. No going back of the line. No paid fines and taxes. CERTAINLY no speeka da Ingles. I would be amazed of .1% of the new recipients of amnesty will even TRY to become citizens.

I will be amazed if fewer than 75% of them DO NOT vote, irrespective of legality.

Just like the did last year.


6 posted on 02/24/2013 8:35:37 PM PST by freedumb2003 (I learned everything I needed to know about racism from Colin Powell)
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To: freedumb2003
The desire of the illegals is to get a paper saying they can stay here legally.

Oh, and by the way, they want to vote too.

7 posted on 02/24/2013 8:36:33 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: neverdem

Either way it equates to surrender.


8 posted on 02/24/2013 8:37:49 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: neverdem

So....they can stay here and not be citizens BUT at the same time the American citizens will pay for their healthcare and every other “free” need they might have!!!
Really, why would they want to become an American citizen and actually have to pay their own way when they can CONTINUE to freeload off from us?


9 posted on 02/24/2013 8:39:21 PM PST by Ms Mable
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To: neverdem
"citizenship for none of them"

Meaningless...so long as every baby they pop out (and they pop out a ton) are automatically U.S. citizens - making the entire family immediately eligible for a host of social services and welfare, as they are right now.

10 posted on 02/24/2013 8:39:51 PM PST by montag813
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To: neverdem

How long will it take a liberal court to say that second class status is unconstitutional and give them blanket citizenship?


11 posted on 02/24/2013 8:43:41 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: neverdem

The Democrats and the professional ethnic grievance groups will never accept that. And John Roberts might not either.

Plus, the issue of anchor babies and birthright citizenship would still leave the legalized non-citizens able to produce millions of future Democrats.

But this idea might be worth considering if, and only if, the legalized non-citizens were not allowed to ever sponsor relatives for family-based immigration. That way at least the threads of chain migration wouldn’t be greatly expanded.


12 posted on 02/24/2013 8:44:38 PM PST by Aetius
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To: neverdem
Splitting the Difference on Illegal Immigration (They can stay, but they can't become citizens.)

How about the opposite...they can become honorary citizens, but they have to return to Mexico...never to return.

Give em a little pin or something.

13 posted on 02/24/2013 8:52:47 PM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (Hey RATS! Control your murdering freaks.)
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To: GeronL

I give it about 8 months before the Supreme court gets it and rightly makes them citizens.

I say that not because I want it to happen but because I don’t see how the supremes could rule otherwise. Its kind of like the fantasy that they could become non voting citizens.

If they stay, they will become citizens with all the rights of citizens. And in 15 to 20 years we’ll be electing a president for life who prefers to be called “General” like every other marxist latin American hell hole.


14 posted on 02/24/2013 8:54:07 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Ms Mable
So....they can stay here and not be citizens BUT at the same time the American citizens will pay for their healthcare and every other “free” need they might have!!!
Really, why would they want to become an American citizen and actually have to pay their own way when they can CONTINUE to freeload off from us?

"Legal permanent residents are also not eligible for all social programs. For example, since 1996, they have been ineligible to receive Medicaid benefits during their first five years in the United States, after which time their coverage is at the discretion of individual states. Similarly, legal permanent residents who have contributed to Social Security and are otherwise entitled to benefits may have them suspended if they remain outside the United States for more than six consecutive months."

You should have read it. The article didn't mention Medicare, Obamacare or welfare. I don't know where states are getting the money.

15 posted on 02/24/2013 8:56:18 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem

Not only deport hem, but refuse to let them mooch welfare and other goodies!


16 posted on 02/24/2013 8:58:29 PM PST by pbmaltzman
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise

That’s the ticket. Tattoo bar codes on their foreheads.


17 posted on 02/24/2013 9:07:45 PM PST by shove_it (Long ago Huxley, Orwell and Rand warned us about 0banana's USA.)
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To: Aetius
But this idea might be worth considering if, and only if, the legalized non-citizens were not allowed to ever sponsor relatives for family-based immigration. That way at least the threads of chain migration wouldn’t be greatly expanded.

"Finally, legal permanent residents cannot obtain U.S. visas for immediate family members outside of established quotas."

18 posted on 02/24/2013 9:08:23 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: cripplecreek

bump

Very true.

This country is on national suicide watch and is determined to carry it out.


19 posted on 02/24/2013 9:09:23 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: montag813
Meaningless...so long as every baby they pop out (and they pop out a ton) are automatically U.S. citizens - making the entire family immediately eligible for a host of social services and welfare, as they are right now.

I don't think anything would pass Congress without addressing anchor babies.

20 posted on 02/24/2013 9:12:34 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem

Yes, thanks for point that out. If ‘established quotas’ weren’t increased, then again it might be worth considering. But in the fantasy where Democrats would go along with something like this, I envision the quotas for family-based immigration being greatly increased.


21 posted on 02/24/2013 9:15:12 PM PST by Aetius
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To: neverdem

They’re already entitled via Obamacare. And the fines don’t apply to them, just us citizens.


22 posted on 02/24/2013 9:16:29 PM PST by stilloftyhenight (Ted Cruz for POTUS!)
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To: GeronL
How long will it take a liberal court to say that second class status is unconstitutional and give them blanket citizenship?

Illegal aliens broke the law. They should be awarded citizenship for it? There are plenty of resident aliens in the U.S.

23 posted on 02/24/2013 9:21:13 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
Re: “Legal permanent residents are also not eligible for all social programs.”

That's not how it works here in Washington state.

No proof of citizenship or legal residence is required to get Food Stamps.

I believe that's true everywhere since the USDA is running TV ads in Mexico and border states (multiple postings here at FR) that explain how to sign up.

Also, Permanent Residents are instantly covered 100% for pregnancy and child birth.

Also, Permanent Residents are instantly eligible for AFDC.

Also here in Washington state, Permanent Resident children are instantly eligible for Medicaid.

PR adults are instantly eligible to file for SSI Disability after arriving in the USA, and they are instantly eligible for Medicaid while their claim is being adjudicated.

PR children may instantly file for SSI Disability.

PR families are instantly eligible to file applications for federally subsidized housing, but the waiting period can sometimes be years.

Let's face reality - it's only a matter of months before some Federal judge confers automatic citizenship on this new “class” of special Americans.

Did I mention that 80% of new immigrant citizens vote for the Democrat Party?

24 posted on 02/24/2013 9:54:46 PM PST by zeestephen
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To: zeestephen

Forgot to mention one thing....

In Washington state NO adult - citizen, PR, or illegal - is eligible for Medicaid unless he is completely disabled or has an active disability claim.


25 posted on 02/24/2013 10:01:28 PM PST by zeestephen
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To: neverdem

Anything other than deporting Illegal Aliens is Amnesty. Its like dealing w a 2yr old at nap time with all these different Amnesty ideas

Deport Deport Deport


26 posted on 02/24/2013 10:01:36 PM PST by SeminoleCounty (GOP = Greenlighting Obama's Programs)
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To: cripplecreek
And in 15 to 20 years we’ll be electing a president for life who prefers to be called “General” like every other marxist latin American hell hole.

You miss the last two elections? We have already arrived my friend.

27 posted on 02/24/2013 10:13:44 PM PST by itsahoot (MSM and Fox free since Nov 1st. If it doesnÂ’t happen here then it didn't happen.)
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To: neverdem
This is restarting slavery.



28 posted on 02/24/2013 10:23:57 PM PST by rdb3 (We're all going to get what only some of us deserve...)
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To: neverdem

We could just enforce the law as it is? - 12 years of repeating this.


29 posted on 02/24/2013 10:33:19 PM PST by The Toll
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To: neverdem; All

I say I’ll support amnesty, if those that are given a pass this time and in future grants, that they are NOT allowed to vote for 25 years...

Then watch the feathers fly...


30 posted on 02/24/2013 10:35:16 PM PST by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: neverdem

That’s no damn good, if they are allowed to work it’s just as bad as giving them citizenship.

They register and vote now, get welfare, food stamps. etc. so citizenship meams nothing to them.


31 posted on 02/24/2013 10:38:25 PM PST by dalereed
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To: neverdem

I gather the writer is of the opinion that if a robber,a la illegal immigrant, comes into my house ,known or unknown, and helps himself to food in my kitchen along with other uses of the house I must first think of why he would do such acts. If my house is too narrow of a consideration just think of an apartment building. To close the matter I must think of a means to make the intruder feel good about/after his actions. NONSENSE


32 posted on 02/24/2013 10:48:30 PM PST by noinfringers2
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To: GeronL

“How long will it take a liberal court to say that second class status is unconstitutional and give them blanket citizenship?”

About 10 seconds.

Use asset forfeiture on the foreign nationals who chose to squat here because they feel like it

The prospect of losing the wealth that they acquire while while being here illegally will inspire them to return to their own countries.

And those who don’t leave on their own get deported. It’s the law.

Why is it impossible to get the political hacks we elect to enforce our laws? Since when do they get to ignore the law because they think it will win them votes?


33 posted on 02/24/2013 11:14:37 PM PST by Pelham (Marco Rubio. for Amnesty, Spanish, and Karl Rove.)
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To: neverdem

Actually it’s not.


34 posted on 02/24/2013 11:42:43 PM PST by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: cripplecreek

No thanks, I don’t think they should be allowed to stay because they have broken so many laws, they don’t give a dam about the charge they are on every body else and they are an immoral people. I could go on.


35 posted on 02/25/2013 12:08:08 AM PST by jdirt
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To: neverdem

When is the treatment of American citizens in Mexico and their rights vs US treatment of Mexicans going to be an issue when we discuss amnesty ?

THIS question; Should Mexican citizens when in the US be given the same rights American citizens are given while in Mexico has yet to appear on any US legislator’s questionaire from either chamber. Ask your congrressman/senator why it isn’t. What makes it necessary for US to subjugate our sovereignty because of available cheap labor ?

Ever hear of reciprocal aggrements ? These are arranged to protect the rights of American citizens working or living in other countries.

Why is it when it comes to citizens of other countries we are required to offer them the same privledges as we do to US citizens? But when it comes to US citizens who get in trouble or attempt to do business in other countries they do not get the same treatment their citizens get.

Americans can’t own coast land in Mexico. And get no title to it elsewhere. If they run out of cash they’ll get unceremoniously sent back or put in jail untill some relative comes up with the “fresh”. That’s just for starters as for granting them voting privledges yea let’s give Mexican citizens that right when American citizens vote in their elections .


36 posted on 02/25/2013 12:16:36 AM PST by mosesdapoet ("It's a sin to tell a lie", in telling others that , got me my nickname .Ex Chi" mechanic"ret)
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To: neverdem
'Rather, they are responsible agents who have made difficult choices in a complicated and risky environment — an environment for which all Americans bear some blame.' What a PANT LOAD! What the hell do I have to blame for the illegal immigrant? I don't hire them. I don't rent to them. I don't coax them here to take jobs that would otherwise pay enough to entice some of our welfare recipients to actually work. An I Sure as Hell don't have the responsibility that our elected officials have in keeping them out and removing them when they are here! jackass!
37 posted on 02/25/2013 12:48:29 AM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise

You are NOT going to deport them. Too many are part of households where legal residents lives. Too many are protected by business interests. Too many are protected by Democratic politicians who will not enforce the law.


38 posted on 02/25/2013 5:12:00 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: neverdem
I wonder if all those advocates of immigration reform, realize that, the new illegals will be subject to Selective Service registration....and classed as aliens, therefore subject to the draft before citizens....
39 posted on 02/25/2013 5:14:51 AM PST by B212
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To: neverdem

That is the worst of both worlds.

We end up a huge class of disaffected individuals lacking the status of citizens or even legal immigrants. Can you say “uprising” and “insurrection?” How ‘bout “vote fraud” and “identity theft?”

I knew you could!


40 posted on 02/25/2013 5:36:40 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: neverdem

I’ve got a better idea. They can stay but we get to hunt them like the vermin they are. If they manage to survive for 15 years then they can go to the end of the list to be naturalized. If they further survive until they get sworn in then they are citizens. (of course once they go on the list their names, addresses and photos get published as well as their illegal status)


41 posted on 02/25/2013 1:18:38 PM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: neverdem

Some talking points (to form the basis of a rational discussion - recognizing that may be an oxymoron in the leftist vocabulary):

- Close the borders (that way criminals will not emigrate here, deported criminals will stay deported, and illegal immigration will be minimized - without this, no other immigration reform makes any sense, but this is already the law, so it’s should only be a matter of enforcing it)
- Eliminate the provision of anchor babies automatically becoming citizens (they get in line with all others seeking to emigrate)
- Deport illegal criminals
- Don’t allow non-citizens to vote (this should go without saying, and it is not the law in several states, but, without voter ID, it cannot be enforced - the argument that it is difficult for some to obtain an ID is an excuse)
- Don’t allow non-citizens to obtain free social programs (this would eliminate people staying here or coming here who are only looking for a handout)


42 posted on 02/25/2013 1:55:38 PM PST by jda ("Righteousness exalts a nation . . .")
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To: BenLurkin

It equates to reality. They’re never going to be mass deported. They are too integrated into our economy. So the next best politically feasible outcome may be a permanent residency without any citizenship, but with fines and limitations, etc.

We’ve got a current welfare burden that needs to be managed. You won’t get deportation. Now what?


43 posted on 02/26/2013 3:54:54 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
It equates to reality. They’re never going to be mass deported. They are too integrated into our economy. So the next best politically feasible outcome may be a permanent residency without any citizenship, but with fines and limitations, etc.

When laws are enforced the illegals self deport. How do you think they got here? You are playing into the statist gloBULList hands. Are you employing illegals right now? What are your motives for that ludicrous statement?

44 posted on 02/26/2013 3:58:16 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: neverdem

They can leave and can’t become citizens.


45 posted on 02/26/2013 3:59:07 AM PST by Altura Ct.
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To: central_va
What are your motives for that ludicrous statement?

It's called political reality. Ping me when you've passed your solution to illegal immigration. I want to head downtown to watch the deportation of all the illegals in Chicago.

Conservatves need to figure out how to maintain their standards while achieving politically realistic goals. This is how we lose power. It's short-sighted and immature - despite your age.

46 posted on 02/26/2013 4:31:18 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

enforce laws = illegals self deport. It is that simple.


47 posted on 02/26/2013 4:45:19 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: 1010RD

You are wrong and I see no reason why you cant find a home at the DU. I noticed you didn’t answer my question do you employ illegals or otherwise make money off illegals? Well do you?


48 posted on 02/26/2013 4:48:39 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

OK, get your law passed and enforced. It’s that simple.


49 posted on 02/26/2013 4:55:34 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: central_va

You think I am wrong? Your next sentence is too long and should read, “I can see no reason”. Have you ever been to DU?

They hate ideas, thinking and free speech. If you don’t agree with them they say inane things like “Are you a FReeper?” or “Why don’t you go post at FR!” and I left out all the swearing and vulagarity.

Did you notice I didn’t answer your question, again? Conspiracy? I think not!


50 posted on 02/26/2013 4:59:52 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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