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To: BroJoeK

“Congress eventually approved everything he did”

That’s a bullshit definition. Doesn’t matter what congress approves or not - he suspended Habeaus Corpus - he declared war on a loyal state of the union. If Obama were to do what Lincoln did, you’d be crying tyranny. Which is what it was.


469 posted on 03/15/2013 8:59:56 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: JCBreckenridge
JCBreckenridge: "That’s a bullshit definition.
Doesn’t matter what congress approves or not - he suspended Habeas Corpus...

Sorry FRiend, but now it's you throwing around some pretty heavy-duty BS.
In fact, Congress is totally authorized to suspend Habeas Corpus in times of rebellion or invasion, and in due time, after appropriate debate, authorized President Lincoln's use of it.
Lincoln's suspensions of Habeas Corpus all happened while Congress was not in session, and after the fact, no serious efforts were made in Congress to censure Lincoln, or revoke his actions.

In the Confederacy, Davis was also authorized to suspend Habeas Corpus, and did so on occasion.
So I can't see how our Pro-Confederates seem to think they've got an open-and-shut "gotcha" case against Lincoln.

JCBreckenridge, referring presumably to Lincoln and Virginia: "...he declared war on a loyal state of the union.
If Obama were to do what Lincoln did, you’d be crying tyranny.
Which is what it was."

First of all: in fact, Lincoln never "declared war" on anyone, as explained in previous posts.
Countries don't "declare war" on rebellions.

Second, during the period when Virginia was in fact a "loyal state of the union" Lincoln made no military moves -- zero, zip, nada, none -- to defeat rebellion there.
All of Lincoln's military operations in Virginia happened after the following:

  1. The Confederacy started war at Fort Sumter, April 12, 1861.
  2. The Confederacy launched a naval war on US shipping, beginning April 15, 1861.
  3. Virginia's convention voted to join the Confederacy, April 17, 1861.
  4. Virgina Confederates seized the Gosport Naval Yard in Norfolk, April 21, 1861.
  5. The Confederacy formally declared war on the United States, on May 6, 1861.
  6. Confederate forces seized Union trains and railroad cars at Harpers Ferry, Virginia, May 14, 1861.
  7. The Confederate Congress voted to move its capital from Montgomery, Alabama to Richmond, Virginia on May 20, 1861.
  8. Virginia voters confirmed joining the Confederacy in its declared war on May 23, 1861.

The first Union troops crossed into Virginia on May 24, 1861.
The first Confederate soldier killed in battle at Big Bethel, Virginia, was on June 10, 1861.

475 posted on 03/15/2013 2:06:29 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: JCBreckenridge
he declared war on a loyal state of the union

Which loyal state was that?

487 posted on 03/15/2013 6:42:04 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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