Skip to comments.Rick Warren Says Late Son Got Illegal Gun on Internet
Posted on 04/12/2013 5:00:21 PM PDT by yongin
Pastor Rick Warren said Thursday that his son, Matthew, purchased an unregistered gun over the Internet. It was that weapon that he used to take his own life last week after years of battling mental illness. "Someone on the internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," Warren tweeted Thursday. The Orange County Sheriff's Department told the Associated Press it is trying to identify the seller, but the gun's serial number was unreadable, making it difficult to trace the firearm.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
And right below that is this:
27. Can I get a list of the firearms for which I am listed as the purchaser, transferee, or owner?
Yes. To obtain a list of firearms listed in your name, complete and submit an Automated Firearms System Records Request, pdf form to the Automated Firearms Unit, P.O. Box 820200, Sacramento, CA 94203-0200. The letter must be signed, notarized, and include a photocopy of your photo ID card (ie., driver’s license or DMV ID).
Mercy?!?!? For aiding and abetting gun control?
Those close to someone like this young man must be prepared to COMMIT them for their own safety, especially if suicidal. He would have found another way to commit suicide.
I will say it. Yes. He is lying about his son buying a gun from the internet. As a long time CA resident and 2nd enthusiast I can assure you that people selling illegal guns with serial numbers filed off are not putting them up for sale on websites. Gang members, face to face maybe but internet? BS!
I further say that any man that will lie about aspects of his own childs death to further an agenda, would lie about anything and should not be trusted.
>how hard it is (if not impossible) to purchase a handgun over the internet without going thru a FFL dealer<
I know of a site, as do many, which I will not post here, which is quite like craigslist, in which you can scan for specific items being offered for sale in your local area, call the person directly, set a meeting place, pay cash, and take ownership of the item. It may not be ‘safe’, but it’s not hard and hardly impossible. It may be illegal in some states, but not in all. I am certain it is illegal in CA, but I am not sure it does not happen there with regularity. It’s is not prohibited where I live, until Fedzilla deems it passed that it is. Then it may become a matter of folks finding the deeper black market. Anyone who sets their mind to finding a specific item with which to do harm to themselves or others will not be stopped by mere laws. Only you and I will obey those laws and allow our rights to be “infringed” in order to prevent ourselves from being victimized by said laws.
I’m hoping that all of my firearms are unregistered.
Might be easier for you. I’d first have to find someone selling a lathe on that site. Do lathes need to have their serial numbers registered with the Fed? Does a sewing machine? LOL. It’s property someone wants to sell to someone willing to buy it for the listed price. It’s not really much trouble at all as far as I can tell.
>Im hoping that all of my firearms are unregistered.
All of mine were unregistered. Nothing in AZ says they should have been. So sad they were all lost in that tragic boating accident. Congress will insure I can never loose unregistered guns into the lake ever again. Utopia!
Exactly. Out of three people in a relatively close sphere to me who have opted out of life, only one used a gun. One hung himself with a belt and one asphyxiated himself with helium. A friend’s coworker walked in front of a train. The man who sold the gun is no more guilty than the train engineer of the guy who jumped in front of it. A parent may not be directly to blame for a suicide, but in my experience, there is often a complex background (including their own mental issues). Every one of the three I knew had parental problems- either abuse, abandonment, or neglect.
Rick Warren is serving the father he knows ... and that isn’t the God of Abraham because THAT God does not lie.
Rule #1 - As long as Gravity exists, so will Suicide.
THE MAN JUST LOST HIS SON!!!!
YES! Where is the mercy???
He’s not abetting gun control.
“The Orange County Sheriffs Department told the Associated Press it is trying to identify the seller, but the guns serial number was unreadable, making it difficult to trace the firearm.”
It seems the police told Warren what happened.
Everyone has a hair trigger about the gun issue ... BUT ... no laws would have prevented his kid from getting the gun! There’s nothing for gun control proponents to ARGUE.
NO LAWS would have PREVENTED this!
Now ... if Warren said, “I had a gun safe and my kid got into it...” THAT MIGHT aid and abet gun control proponents.
But there’s nothing to argue here.
His adult son bought a gun illegally and killed himself.
You guys are BACKWARDS in trying to argue this as a case for gun control. It’s NOT... it REINFORCES the case that only outlaws get guns.
And yes... mercy... for Heaven’s sake.
Thanks for your kind (and informative) reply. I stick to the Bible, too. For group worship, I prefer small gathering halls filled with genuine born-again Christians.
Yep. If you've ever seen how footprints of compressed snow will sometimes remain after the surrounding snow has melted, it's an analogous process. When a serial # or other text is stamped into a metal it compresses the metal under the stamp increasing its molecular density as compared to surrounding metal. Even if the serial number is filed or worn down to the bottom of the impressions (i.e. the stamped digits and/or letters), the metal underneath will be denser, and when given a modulated acid bath to remove the less dense surrounding metal, they can generally be raised.
Sad about Rick Warrens son’s death, and people shouldn’t use this tragedy to attack him, but neither should he abuse it to push for a political goal (gun controll)!
I said it before, I'll say it again.
The police department is saying that he bought it off the internet; Rick is simply repeating what they told him.
The comments on this thread absolutely disgust me. I don't know how Rick and Kay are holding up under this ignorant assault.
Flame away, I don't care. I'm done.
Who says he bought if from a dealer? Nobody is saying that. It could have been a private sale off Craigslist for all we know.
I know Rick. He’s been my pastor since 1999, when he led me to Christ. I’m sick over what’s being said about him, here and other places. I’ll be everybody who’s talking has never met him, never really listened to him. They’re just going by what somebody else said about him.
Signing off again, and this time I’ll resist the temptation to peek back in.
It is usually stolen guns which have serial numbers ground off.
What is the point of saying it was not a “registered gun”? What possible difference would that make? What does “registration” have to do with *anything* in this story, execept to promote acceptance of “registration”?
Registration has absolutely *nothing* to do with suicides.
Orwellian doublespeak, doubleplusungood.
“The man lost his son. Where is the mercy?”
The man has used the loss of his son to promote a political agenda. Where is the shame?
The whole “registration” babble is Orwellian.
Because there is NO REQUIREMENT TO REGISTER THE GUN.....
...the GUN IS NOT “ILLEGAL”!!!!!
Craigslist don’t do guns no more....
Disgusting that Rick Warren even brings it up at all. His son was possessed by killer demons which is the origin of all suicide. He is just deflecting his own lack of understanding and culpability as another weak minister in an apostate church..most churches nowadays!
“And I forgive Rick Warren for “forgiving” the seller, thus backhandedly casting the seller as some kind of sinner. “
Exactly. You have the right take. Everyone makes mistakes, and it is easier to do in a time of great emotional loss and stress. Rick Warren made a mistake, under great emotional loss and stress.
He probably did not even know he was doing it when he did it. We all are sinners, and we all need forgiveness.
In this case that would make sense, since there's no way to trace a shooting to a shotgun through ballistics AFAIK.
You are most certainly welcome.
I have no attachment to Warren... but sometimes here on FR no conservative is CONSERVATIVE enough and no Christian is CHRISTIAN enough.
But I kind of feel like the Christians condemning Warren should feel ashamed.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
And the man lost his son. He is grieving deeply. And yet it seems he is forgiving the CRIMINAL who sold his son a gun.
As I read down the responses I wondered how much hate and judgment could be in the hearts of people professing their superior Christianity.
I don’t raise much ruckus here, but I felt the need to say something.
If you think this info supports gun control, you don’t know how to debate.
If you feel the need to rain down condemnation on a man who just lost his son in a terrible fashion... I pity you.
My uncle gave me “The Purpose Driven Life” long ago and it was a most excellent read.
I will be praying for the family and God bless you, too.
I oppose gun registration. Where did Warren argue for it?
Rick Warren is batting 1000 as a complete turkey!
The blame goes to the man that supposedly raised him Rick. He inherited your familiar spirit.
Winstons Julia posted: I oppose gun registration. Where did Warren argue for it?
Here is the quote from his tweet, at least as the article portrayed it.
“Someone on the internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he seeks God’s forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15,”
If he is not promoting gun registration, why would he need to forgive the person who sold his son an unregistered gun?
Warren runs loose with the truth of God’s word, so yes, I would say that it is far more likley that he is just outright lying than just sorely mistaken.
“And yet it seems he is forgiving the CRIMINAL who sold his son a gun.”
I do not think that we know that it was a criminal who sold him the gun. If it was, he may be a very recent criminal, because of the host of gun laws recently passed in California.
Selling a person an unregistered gun is not a sin.
Not Fedex, UPS, nor the USPS will ship a gun to anywhere but a FFL dealer.
Rick and the sheriff are lying.
“It is usually stolen guns which have serial numbers ground off.”
It is possible. It is just as possible that it is one of the millions of shotguns made before 1968 that were not required to have serial numbers.
The requirement for .22 rifles and shotguns to have serial numbers was part of the 1968 gun control act.
If he bought it “on line” who delivered it?
And how could he buy anything online without the standard trail? It cannot be done.
>> “I would assume they’re looking at his computer and financial records, for that very reason” <<
If that’s true, then they definitely are lying.
AND prior to the 1968 infringement, one could order a shotgun or small caliber rifle and have it sent to your front door via USPS. BUT, the sheriff’s dept did asseret that the serial number had been taken off.
>> “I guess its easier to blame guns then his failed role as a father.” <<
We have BINGO!
California can not block access to the web can they?
California does not stop and search passenger cars coming across the state line, do they?
If so, California is one hell of a lot more powerful than I thought.
>> “Matthew’s mental illness had nothing to do with failed parenting” <<
“Mental illness” is spiritual illness. The kid inherited the father’s familiar spirit. That is Biblical.
I doubt that Warren is as deep into the gun debate as some of us.
It sounds like the police told him that it was an illegal gun with the identifying info removed and he just said, “unregistered” because that’s what they told him.
I would imagine a parent would say, “Where did he get the gun?” And police would say, “We don’t know ... it was unregistered...”
Also, with a history of suicidal depression, it’s quite possible that Matthew wouldn’t pass a background check to buy a gun.
I just think everyone needs to cool off and consider Warren’s position right now. Also, none of the proposed legislation (and from what I just checked California has some of the strictest) would have stopped this from happening.
The son bought a gun with information removed from it and killed himself.
If he had hanged himself with a stolen (illegal) rope, would we be having this conversation? The gun didn’t kill him, he killed himself.
My dad committed suicide with a gun that he legally owned. That was almost 40 years ago. I have never blamed the gun and neither has my mother.
The gun did not make him suicidal.
He had access to ropes, knives, pills, high buildings, bridges, a garage with a car in it...
Oh, I see, and that’s why Lithium helps aleviate some mental illnesses. ... Sometimes you get a little too lost in your own wordifyin’, dude.
If I had lost a child, getting into the political fight over gun control would be the last thing I would want to do.
Very possibly lying about it would tend to make him look like a very bad person.
He is the one who brought it up as an attack on gun rights right in the middle of a furious debate.
If all he wanted to do was grieve for his Son, we certainly would not attack him, but when he attacks us, and he did just by the wording of his statement you think we are being mean to dispute what he says.
MHGinTN posted: BUT, the sheriffs dept did asseret that the serial number had been taken off.
Not exactly. They said, according to the article:
“The Orange County Sheriff’s Department told the Associated Press it is trying to identify the seller, but the gun’s serial number was unreadable, making it difficult to trace the firearm.”
“Unreadable” could mean a number of things. I have seen old firearms where you could not read the serial number, just because of wear. It is also possible that it is “unreadable” because it never was there in the first place. This is not a “high value” case. There is no point in determining where the gun came from. That is irrelevant, though it is pushed, by those who want to take away our guns, as important.
The only reason they consider it important is because it give them a semi-plausible reason to demand registration.
“Perhaps the true meaning is the equivalent of off the highway ie; he went to buy an illegal gun, in a parking lot, off the highway/Internet....but not far???”
Fast & Furious comes to mind...perhaps Holder and his boss can shed some light on all this...