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Is America a two party Dictatorship?
17 April 2013 | vannrox

Posted on 04/17/2013 3:34:08 AM PDT by vannrox

Is America a two party Dictatorship?

A dictatorship is defined as an autocratic form of government in which the government is ruled by an individual: a dictator . It has three possible meanings:

1. A Roman dictator was the incumbent of a political office of legislate of the Roman Republic . Roman dictators were allocated absolute power during times of emergency. Their power was originally neither arbitrary nor unaccountable, being subject to law and requiring retrospective justification. There were no such dictatorships after the beginning of the 2nd century BC, and later dictators such as Sulla and the Roman Emperors exercised power much more personally and arbitrarily.

2. A government controlled by one person, or a small group of people . In this form of government the power rests entirely on the person or group of people, and can be obtained by force or by inheritance. The dictator(s) may also take away much of its peoples' freedom.

3. In contemporary usage, dictatorship refers to an autocratic form of absolute rule by leadership unrestricted by law, constitutions , or other social and political factors within the state.

For some scholars, a dictatorship is a form of government that has the power to govern without consent of those being governed (similar to authoritarianism ), while totalitarianism describes a state that regulates nearly every aspect of public and private behavior of the people. In other words, dictatorship concerns the source of the governing power and totalitarianism concerns the scope of the governing power.

In this sense, dictatorship (government without people's consent) is a contrast to democracy (government whose power comes from people) and totalitarianism (government controls every aspect of people's life) opposes pluralism (government allows multiple lifestyles and opinions).

Other scholars stress the omnipotence of the State (with its consequent suspension of rights) as the key element of a dictatorship and argue that such concentration of power can be legitimate or not depending on the circumstances, objectives and methods employed.

This is very Interesting , but does it apply to contemporary America?

I contend that, while the USA is on-paper, a Representative Republic, it is in fact a two party dictatorship that is utilizing various contemporaneous excuses to implement a totalitarian government ruled by authorial means by a new class of aristocrats.

The issues

I contend that the primary driving principles of the United States have been eroded into meaningless words. I further contend that this neglect has not been accidental, but purposefully implemented by those in government for their own purposes. Finally, I contend that the primary principles involved is the most fundamental issues for Americans; Freedom and Liberty.

History

Many people throughout history refuse to acknowledge that they live in a dictatorship. They hold on to the precious history as if it things never change.

Nazi Germany was ruled by a man named Hitler, and every American ¡®knows¡± about the Nazi Dictatorship. But, this is not what the citizens of Germany thought. They earnestly believed that Germany was still a Republic. In fact, they believed that it was an ¡°improved¡± Republic.

But, history records things differently. Nazi Germany , also known as the Third Reich , is the common name for Germany during the period from 1933 to 1945, when its government was controlled by Adolf Hitler and his National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP; Nazi Party). Under Hitler's rule, Germany was transformed from a republic into a dictatorship using the process of Gleichschaltung (coordination). The country was a totalitarian state after August 1934.

This is not a history lesson, just some food for thought. Could it be possible that the transformation of the USA from what it was in 1776 to what it is today parallel that of what occurred in Germany in 1933?

Impossible!

The arguments against this contention are many and easily voiced. There are ¡°Checks and Balances¡±, there is the ¡°Bill of Rights¡±, there is the fact that there are ¡°elections¡±, and that the ¡°Constitution is the Law of the Land¡±. Yes. It is all there on paper. On paper. Ignored. But it is on paper.

Do you feel ¡°Free¡±?

Do you believe that you are free? Do you feel free? What is freedom?

Most Americans have no idea what freedom is. Many have never left the shores of the USA, and thus can¡¯t compare their life to that of some other place. I have been living in China for quite some time now, and I can clearly see what freedom is. And, I will tell you, it is not what you think.

¡°Freedom¡± is not ¡°Safety¡±. It is that simple. True freedom is the ability to do harmful things to yourself without government interference. The ability to drink, smoke, eat in excess, drive without a seatbelt on, listen to loud music, watch porn, lay in the sun all day¡ all these things are unhealthy, and many of them are severely restricted in the USA¡ but a free person can do them unencumbered by government interference.

Try going to a restaurant in the USA, order a beer and light up a cigarette. Refuse to show ID. Open up a Playboy magazine in the restaurant and read it. You think you can do this in the USA? Do it with bare feet and no shirt and come with your dog on a leash. You cannot do it. In the USA you will be stopped. If you persist, you will be thrown in jail.

In China you can do it, and no one will bat an eye.

Oh, you argue, but that is filthy and disgusting! Rules are necessary for all of us to live together, for the common good. We need to be safe and secure. Maybe so. But IT IS NOT FREEDOM. And that, is what my point is.

The Bill of Rights

There is a forgotten document in the United States. I contend it is very important. It is called ¡°The Bill of Rights¡±. Now this little-known document is important because it puts limits on what the government can do. It puts limits on the government. This function and feature is very important because it is the ONLY document in the USA that enumerates what ¡°Liberties¡± and what ¡°Freedoms¡± that Americans are permitted to have.

¡°¡THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution¡¡±

Important stuff no doubt. Why is it NOT taught in Government Schools? That question¡Why is it not taught in American Schools? Is an important question. And the answer can ONLY lead one to the conclusion that the Government does not want it¡¯s citizens to know about the Bill of Rights and what it¡¯s purpose is.

1 st Right – The most famous Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Important stuff , and for many they think this is the ONLY article in the Bill of Rights. That you can believe what religion you want do; that you can say and do what you want to; and that you can assemble in a group where and when you want to and you can complain about the government with impunity.

Congress shall make no law¡ wait! They did. Can they do that? No they can¡¯t, but they did. Who can forget about the David Koresh Religious ¡°cult¡± in Waco. No, it wasn¡¯t a religion because the government said it wasn¡¯t. Since it wasn¡¯t recognized as a officially-sanctioned religion, it became a cult.

Freedom of the press. OF course, everyone can write and say what they want¡oh wait! No they can¡¯t. Look at all the lawsuits against Rush Limbaugh, and look what happened to jay Severn. If they can¡¯t break you through law, then they can destroy you via other methods.

The right to assemble. Well, at least that still exists¡ no wait! What about the ¡°Occupy wall Street¡± movement. Oh yea¡ but we all know now that they are were all Child Pornographers, and their followers were all misguided individuals. It¡¯s a good thing that the police rounded up those protesters, or else the country would collapse!

But at least you can say what you want against the government¡ no wait! Look a Julian Assange , the founder of Wikileaks . ( WikiLeaks is an international, online, non-profit organization which publishes secret information, news leaks , and classified media from anonymous sources . ) We found out that he was a rapist, and is serving a long, long jail time because he raped two girls. After all, as the media gleefully informs us, anyone who dares anger the USA has skeletons in their closet. On threats by various governments toward Julian Assange , legal expert Ben Saul argues that Assange is the target of a global smear campaign to demonise him as a criminal or as a terrorist, without any legal basis. The U.S. Center for Constitutional Rights has issued a statement emphasizing its alarm at the "multiple examples of legal overreach and irregularities" in his arrest.

The government does what it wants with impunity. If it cannot do it through the law, it does it anyway. It uses excuses and fabricates excuses when none can be found. The 1 st amendment does not exist in the form it was intended for and because of this I can only conclude that that it does NOT EXIST.

2 nd Right – The contested 2 nd Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The government does not want Americans to have guns. Period. But this pesky amendment keeps on getting in the way. Democrats don¡¯t like it, and as they chip away at this right, they give comforting words to sooth and placate. They whisper softly¡ ¡°you can still hunt¡±¡¡±we just want to make the USA safer for the children¡¡±

Safety is NOT freedom.

Gun ownership is the last defense against a tyrannical government. And the government knows this and it is critically important for them that access to weapons and use and training of them to be as difficult as possible.

Did you know that you can own a full-assault gun in China? No, it¡¯s a closely guarded secret in the USA. The USA media likes to call something that looks like a military firearm a Assault rifle, but it is not. A true assault rifle has full auto capability.

I contend that when a American cannot own the same kinds of weapons that a Chinese citizen can in a Communist country, then the USA is no longer free. The 2 nd amendment has been rendered useless, and it¡¯s demise and full destruction is just a matter of time.

3 rd Right. The forgotten 3 rd Amendment

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

I contend that the USA doesn¡¯t violate this amendment. That is because IT DOESN¡¯T NEED TO. It simply seizes the property it wants. Thus it doesn¡¯t violate this amendment.

The USA has become experts at seizing the property of Americans. There is a plethora of reasons why they do it. All associated with come law that is broken, or some rule that is violated, or some patent or copyright that is being violated. Many many reasons¡ but the same result. The USA takes ownership.

Look at Waco and the government recovery of the land, or all the seizures by ICE (Department of Homeland Security military arm).

4 th Right – The Ignored 4 th Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The USA has eliminated this right through various work- arounds . Anyone who goes or works in a court house can tell you how easy it is to get a warrant to seize property, documents, records and anything else the government might want. Often times the paperwork is generated by the police and the court or judge just ¡°rubber stamps¡± an OK to proceed on it. In fact, this is so prevalent that I have been unable to find any ANY example of a warrant being denied.

But now, with the advent of 911 and the post-911 police state, certain kinds of records can be obtained without a warrant. We have the Utah data Collection Center making copies of all e-mails, tweets, cloud storage, ISP and URL traffic you participate in and generate. All for your own safety.

Ownership of property in the USA is a thing of the past. Americans own very little. Due to the advent of property taxes, we rent the land we own. And failure to pay our rent will result in the confiscation of that property by the government.

Confiscation of property and warrants should be, and needs to be, very difficult for the government to do and obtain. All of these rights should and needs to be treasured. They shouldn¡¯t be minimized by ¡°reasonable limits¡±, or because of some transient emergency or media-hyped phenomenon. Rights are not subject to popular discourse. They are granted to us because we are human. They are NOT given to us by a government.

5 th right – Protection from Judicial Abuses

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Big right, this one is. And, important. Too bad it is ignored and forgotten. Oh, there are those who will want to parse this amendment because, in general, certain aspects of it are enforced. But, I contend that even ONE violation of this amendment is too many. I contend that even ONE ¡°special case or situation¡± that runs counter to this right is a violation.

Today there are multiple examples where people are compelled to be witness against themselves through their postings and online activities. There are many examples where private property is confiscated by the government routinely with far less than ¡°just¡± compensation. I contend that the ongoing ¡°state of war¡± that the USA is involved in has created a situation whereas this amendment is voided and ignored ¡°for the better good¡± of society.

True freedom is a messy thing. It creates a colorful life and a worthy one. But to sanitize it by rules and laws runs counter to the prime principles that built the country. It is a sad day when even the judicial branch is run by the political winds in Congress.

6 th Right – Twisted and modified beyond recognition.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

On the surface, it appears that this amendment is maintained and valued. But it isn¡¯t. It has been twisted, modified and turned into something completely different. In the USA, Justice is not like that portrayed on television. Perry Mason does not exist. The courts and Judges operate as a machine. They use ¡°boiler plate¡± documents, packaged charges, and a plethora of techniques to put people behind bars and in prison.

Currently, less than 10% of the case loads in front of a court goes to trial. Fully 90% are settled out of court. This is done ¡°for reasons or economy and efficiency¡±, but the true reason is because the majority of cases would eventually collapse.

The fact that 90% of the cases are not conducted utilizing this 6 th amendment right is an indicator that this right has been rendered ineffective. PERIOD. Call the reasons what you may, but if every court case HAD to follow this procedure, many of the people currently behind bars would be free.

7 th Amendment – The triumph of COMMON LAW¡ignored completely

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

The triumph of COMMON LAW is the law of the land. But in order to ¡°reduce crime¡±, a wide and broad swath of behavioral laws were introduced. No longer was a crime only associated with disagreements between people, but now becomes associated with behavior. Smoke illegal drugs – go to jail. Look at illegal pictures – go to jail. Associate with bad people – go to jail. Behavioral laws hurt all of us, and are fundamentally counter to that of common law.

In common law jurisdictions, legislatures operate under the assumption that statutes will be interpreted against the backdrop of the pre-existing common law and custom. For example, in most U.S. states, the criminal statutes are primarily codification of pre-existing common law. ( Codification is the process of enacting a statute that collects and restates pre-existing law in a single document—when that pre-existing law is common law, the common law remains relevant to the interpretation of these statutes.) In reliance on this assumption, modern statutes often leave a number of terms and fine distinctions unstated—for example, a statute might be very brief, leaving the precise definition of terms unstated, under the assumption that these fine distinctions will be inherited from pre-existing common law. (For this reason, many modern American law schools teach the common law of crime as it stood in England in 1789, because that centuries-old English common law is a necessary foundation to interpreting modern criminal statutes.)

By ignoring the 7 th Amendment, we get such laws as having it ¡°illegal to reprogram your iPhone¡±, or ¡°mandatory child seats in cars¡±, and ¡°illegalities in taking medicine from Canada without a USA doctors prescription¡±. It is the reason why ISP¡¯s can now throttle down your bandwidth if you download a copywritten torrent file. It is the reason why robot drones can patrol civilian airspace and fly over your own personal property without first obtaining your permission.

8 th Amendment – completely FORGOTTEN

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

The 8 th Amendment protects poor people from being stuck in the prison system because they do not have enough money to go to court. But 95% of people who go to court cannot pay the bail asked for by the court. So they utilize a ¡°Bail Bondsman¡±.

A ¡°Bail Bondsman¡± will pay the bail that the court asks for, as long as you pay 10% of the amount asked for to him. So, if the court sets a person¡¯s bail at $us 300,000 then the accused person would then pay the bail bondsman $us 30,000. What is wrong about this is that if the accused paid the court, they would get the money back when they appeared at court. But by utilizing a ¡°Bail Bondsman¡± they forfeit the 10% completely.

The fact that Bail Bondsmen exist is PROOF POSITIVE that excessive bail is routinely asked of accused people in the USA.

9 th Right – Never heard of it!

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

This is a simple right. You can¡¯t use one right to take another right away. In other words, you can¡¯t use your right to own a gun to deny someone else from practicing their own religion. Or, you can¡¯t use your freedom of the press to deny that the 2 nd Amendment is a right.

This right is misused, ignored and forgotten. It is certainly NOT enforced.

10 th Amendment. Destroyed by the rise of Federalism thanks to Mr. Lincoln

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This right is what was used by the Confederacy to leave the Union. They retained the right to operate independently from federal control and broke away from the Union. Under the guise of abolishing slavery, Mr. Lincoln destroyed the states of the Confederacy. And thus rendered the 10 th amendment useless.

One of the secrets of contemporary history is the fact that The Confederate States of America abolished slavery and made ownership of slaves illegal. It¡¯s one of those historical tidbits that are swept under the rug and forgotten. The Civil War was not about slavery, it was about Federal control. And the Federal government won.

So what? What does the Bill of Rights have to do with Dictatorships?

I contend that without safeguarded, maintained and nourished rights that citizens become prisoners of their country. And when this happens, Dictatorships follow, and will eventually result in genocide by the government (known as ¡° democide ¡±).

The examples I cited above are open to conjecture and debate. Some will, can and probably parse the points that I have made and piece by piece shred my conjectures to ribbons. They will arise victorious and proudly announce that the USA is the best, freest and most wonderful nation in the world! Great and good for you! Rah Rah ¡

The truth is, from the outside looking in, it is obvious that the Bill of Rights is not maintained. And as a result of this, the government has become a two party system, with each party enacting rules and abilities that give them unchecked power. This unchecked power ALWAYS leads towards a dictatorship. And I see the elements falling in place.

Food for thought¡ But so what?

I yearn for the principles and purity of a true, free, libertarian republic. But, that will probably not happen in my life. It is time for others to carry the torch.

I strongly urge a careful, orchestrated and well planned effort to abolish the 16 th Amendment. By doing this, the people can better control the flow of money to the federal government. Once the money is controlled, then the individual states can strengthen their interpretations of the 10 th amendment. With these two controlling efforts put in place, other tasks can be put in place to slowly and carefully undo the abuses and neglect of our parents; grandparents and foolish great grandparents who have made a mockery of the USA. And whom turned it into the pale shadow of what was once a great nation.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 2party; bill; dictatorship; freedom; liberty; obamaphoto; right; vanity

1 posted on 04/17/2013 3:34:08 AM PDT by vannrox
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To: vannrox

As soon as “R” is working so hard to eradicate itself it looks more like a classic One Party Dictatorship.


2 posted on 04/17/2013 3:38:50 AM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: vannrox

Sorry about the HTML errors. THe quotation marks are rendered as funny characters as this...(”). Please don’t flame. It’s been a while since I really gave a good posting, and I’m a bit rusty.

My computer keeps switching back and forth from Chinese and English and thus it was a bit difficult to compile up. I know that there are errors and that maybe this will anger some people. I’m just basically pretty distraught at what is going on in the USA. I see a president who actually thinks that the federal Government is a Democracy... Who thinks that a 14% unemployment rate is a sign of progress, and who wants to start yet another endless war in Asia.

Nothing ever changes...


3 posted on 04/17/2013 3:45:18 AM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: vannrox
Take a look at the text of the Supreme Court's Scott v. Sandford (1856) decision, where the Supreme's held that even freed Negros were not entitled to the rights of white men because:
More especially, it cannot be believed that the large slaveholding States regarded them as included in the word citizens, or would have consented to a Constitution which might compel them to receive them in that character from another State. For if they were so received, and entitled to the privileges and immunities of citizens, it would exempt them from the operation of the special laws and from the police regulations which they considered to be necessary for their own safety.

It would give to persons of the negro race, who were recognised as citizens in any one State of the Union, the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased, singly or in companies, without pass or passport [i.e. with no requirement to show government picture ID], and without obstruction, to sojourn there as long as they pleased, to go where they pleased at every hour of the day or night without molestation, unless they committed some violation of law for which a white man would be punished; and it would give them the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went[i.e. carry with no need for license of any form]. And all of this would be done in the face of the subject race of the same color, both free and slaves, and inevitably producing discontent and insubordination among them, and endangering the peace and safety of the State.

It is impossible, it would seem, to believe that the great men of the slaveholding States, who took so large a share in framing the Constitution of the United States and exercised so much influence in procuring its adoption, could have been so forgetful or regardless of their own safety and the safety of those who trusted and confided in them.

This was what the rights of free citizens were conceived to include before the Civil War.
4 posted on 04/17/2013 4:04:55 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: vannrox

What about China’s one child rule and local party leaders who enforce it. What about China’s strict controls over the Internet? What about due process in China. I agree the U.S. is less free and the government passes laws that apply to us but not them, but China more free? Not believable. We the people should insist that any law congress passes should apply to them as well.


5 posted on 04/17/2013 4:18:12 AM PDT by samsmom
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To: vannrox

Fascism rules the day in America.


6 posted on 04/17/2013 4:32:57 AM PDT by stockpirate (COME AND GET THEM.....)
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To: vannrox

It’s pretty much a one party rule. There are a few in DC that are working to change things but the fact that some call themselves either Republican or Democrat is mere window dressing to create a differentiation to market themselves and pull in dollars.

Other than the illusion of a difference they are all statists of varying degrees.


7 posted on 04/17/2013 4:39:37 AM PDT by Fzob (In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Jefferson)
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To: vannrox

I stopped reading right here:

“Refuse to show ID.
In China you can do it, and no one will bat an eye.”

WHAT???

Also, glancing down, I have a completely different interpretation of the meaning of the Ninth Amendment.


8 posted on 04/17/2013 4:41:44 AM PDT by Chad N. Freud (FR is the modern equivalent of the Committees of Correspondence. Let other analogies arise.)
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To: samsmom

You read too much propaganda. Most of the Chinese people I know have 3 kids. The one-child rule is a rule of taxation. You are taxed depending on the number of children you have.

If the first child is a girl, you can have a second child without paying a tax. The next child you have to pay a tax equal to 1.5% of your income. A child after that, the tax raises to 5%.

China is a Communist single party government. It is not free. But, on a day to day basis it IS freer than the USA is.

The Internet blocks Facebook because the Chinese government does not want the USA government to have the information posted on facebook (routinely uploaded to NSA servers). Same with u-tube. It is different than the USA, and I miss many things about the USA.

But do NOT sit there, as a person who has never visited China, and tell me that the USA is freer. IT IS NOT.

Today I chewed a betel nut. Cost me about 60 cents. Illegal in the USA. I am going to eat dinner at a restaurant and have a beer and smoke some cigarettes there. You can’t do that in the USA.

I’m a wild and crazy guy. When I ride in a car, I don’t put on my seatbelt. You can’t do that in your land of the free, can you? After dinner, I’m going out to play snooker at the local bowling alley. I won’t be carded or asked to see my age. Can’t do that in the USA.

My point is that Freedom is a day to day event. You either experience a free life or you don’t. That is my point.

I live in China and I have three kids. What about the single-baby rule? Two weeks ago I went to Guangdong and hunted deer using a full automatic AK-47. You can’t do that in the USA. You don’t know what you are talking about. You just repeat the mindless nonsense printed in American media.

Open up your eyes, and listen to what I am talking about. You don’t believe me. Fine. Live your fantasy. Many Germans thought Hitler was fantastic, and paid the price for their blindness.

China is NOT NOT NOT free. But, my point is that China is freer than the USA on many fundamental levels.


9 posted on 04/17/2013 4:46:05 AM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: PapaBear3625

Bump


10 posted on 04/17/2013 4:46:57 AM PDT by BillGunn (Bill Gunn for Congress district one rep. Massachusetts)
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To: Chad N. Freud

True you will not be asked to show your ID. The only time you are asked to show your ID is for a Residency check, or upon entering the country. If you don’t show your ID then, other things happen.

My point is day to day activities. Try going one entire week without showing your ID in the USA. Try it. you cannot.

You can interpret the amendments differently than I do. Fine. I am happy that you believe that the USA is a wonderful and free country. Enjoy your freedom. Oh yes, you DID pay your income tax didn’t you?..?


11 posted on 04/17/2013 4:51:02 AM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: vannrox

Just figuring this out?


12 posted on 04/17/2013 4:57:39 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?)
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To: BillGunn

My point is simple; Safety is not Freedom. And, the only ONLY document in the USA that protects Freedom is the Bill of Rights. I believe that it is not being protected and cherished as it should. This upsets me.

I contend that Americans have been so programmed by the news media, and so accustomed to living without freedom that they don’t even know what it is.

Freedom is not clean. It is messy, ugly and smells. But true freedom is what causes and inspires people, families and nations to greatness. Freedom and liberty is valuable. It needs to be appreciated, treasured and honored. Not ignored or permitted to wane away to nothing. It has to be fought for, protected and defended.

In the last election, NO ONE talked about freedom. Instead they offered plans for more laws, and more taxes, and more benefits. they offered promises of how they would change the country to make it greater. But none of them talked about Freedom. Not one. That is the problem that I lament.

that is why I wrote this controversial article.


13 posted on 04/17/2013 5:02:18 AM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: vannrox

I can believe that on a day to day basis, some aspects of Chinese life are freer than some aspects of the U.S. I also think everybody on this forum is well aware of the degredations of our freedoms - that’s not news. Not here, anyway.

I would also state that there is almost no economic freedom in China, to move from one class to another. And the need to be well connected to government apparatchiks is even more chronic in China than the U.S, though we are fast moving in that direction. Again, few on FR find this surprising.


14 posted on 04/17/2013 5:14:04 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: vannrox
Try going one entire week without showing your ID in the USA. Try it. you cannot.

Strange comment. On the surface, you can go a week. And certainly you can go much longer than a week without showing it to a gov't authority. But there is a bigger question: showing an ID is a straw test for "freedom" or "liberty" in general.

15 posted on 04/17/2013 5:16:15 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: vannrox
Thank you for taking the time to think about these issues and to post your views. You make many valid points. Folks on this site may want to give some thought to your views before dismissing them so cavalierly.
16 posted on 04/17/2013 5:18:22 AM PDT by Shane (When Injustice Becomes Law, RESISTANCE Becomes DUTY.----T.Jefferson)
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To: vannrox
My point is day to day activities. Try going one entire week without showing your ID in the USA. Try it. you cannot

The last time I needed to show my ID was in 2011 - to get a new driver's license.

17 posted on 04/17/2013 5:22:39 AM PDT by liberalh8ter (The only difference between flash mob 'urban yutes' and U.S. politicians is the hoodies.)
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To: vannrox

Only one party, The Big Government Party

Two branches:

Democrat - Practice what they preach

Republican - Preach like moderates, govern like democrats


18 posted on 04/17/2013 5:24:35 AM PDT by Iron Munro (Welcome to Obama-Land - EVERYTHING NOT FORBIDDEN IS COMPULSORY)
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To: vannrox
Their power was originally neither arbitrary nor unaccountable, being subject to law and requiring retrospective justification.

This is incorrect. The single biggest difference between a dictator and the ordinary magistrates was that a dictator was NOT liable to lawsuit for misuse of power after leaving office. All other magistrates were.

19 posted on 04/17/2013 5:27:04 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: vannrox
My point is that Freedom is a day to day event. You either experience a free life or you don’t.

Very true, and I'm afraid your analysis is correct.

Someone posted film footage (color) of VJ Day in Hawaii. There were all kinds of folks driving around without seatbelts, people piled on top of moving cars, etc. All I could think while watching that footage is that, today, those people would be ticketed and/or arrested en mass for violating any number of "for your own good" laws.

Pathetic what we've become.

20 posted on 04/17/2013 5:37:15 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: vannrox

I haven’t been to China, but I’ve worked for months at a time in Europe.
This is a really good article.
We here in the USA have many more ‘Comforts’ than the rest of the world has. But we are frogs in the frying pan. And I for one am feeling that the heat has been notched up enough for me to KNOW that things are slightly more than past the point of discomfort. -It smarts now. All the time.

The point that the German people didn’t realize they had been taken over by a dictatorship really hits home. They THOUGHT they’d “ELECTED” someone via the party. Just like here.
Who still really believes we actually have a say in our nominees??? They appoint them and we play the game of ‘election’, thinking we’ve done our duty.

It seems to me that the Chinese have learned to allow creature comfort ‘freedoms’ to keep the people from getting fed up. Here, they are doing just the opposite. And folks are getting riled up. Which is why this 2nd Amendment battle is being waged so intensely. They KNOW that if they fail to confiscate our means of protection, that the people in this country are being pushed far enough to start pushing back soon.
I truly fear for my children.


21 posted on 04/17/2013 5:45:33 AM PDT by joethedrummer
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To: vannrox
In the last election, NO ONE talked about freedom. Instead they offered plans for more laws, and more taxes, and more benefits. they offered promises of how they would change the country to make it greater. But none of them talked about Freedom. Not one. That is the problem that I lament.

There was one man running for the white house last year who did talk about freedom. He talked about it quite a bit actually. But people here get their panties in a knot if you say his name. Americans talk a good game on freedom but they don't really want it. Hell, just take a look around you here on this site. They are just fine with people taking their money and being told what they can and can't do so long as the guy running things has the right letter next to his name.

22 posted on 04/17/2013 5:56:01 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: vannrox

What we have are the two wings of the Perpetual Incumbency Party.


23 posted on 04/17/2013 6:45:01 AM PDT by Notary Sojac ('Institutions will try to preserve the problems to which they are a solution.' - Clay Shirky)
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To: vannrox

Very interesting perspective! Thanks for taking the time to put forth such information.

I know for a fact we are no longer a free country, and now, like our first wookie, I am no longer proud of the USA.

My major problem with China is actually my major problem with any country with a strong central government.

Without exception, when a government, organization, business, church, union, gets too large they become dictators in their own right.

The Founders knew this and did their best to keep our federal government small and we have ignored them.

Our biggest mistake and the one that will bury us has been to allow government to teach our kids. It is amazing all here on the FR who will rail against government this or government that, send their children to government schools and expect a good outcome. BRAIN DEAD!

How on earth can we expect a good future when we allow power hungry government types to influence the ultra susceptible minds of our children from Pre-K to 12th grade and then send some of them to communist infested universities.

No wonder ALL of the media and most citizens are completely ignorant of the brilliance of the Founders and why the country use to be so great and why it now sucks.

If anyone reading this is serious about putting this country back on the path of limited government then do all in your power to keep your kids/grand kids out of public indoctrination centers and do your best to defund these communist institutions. ANY other choice will be contributing to your own enslavement and certainly to a very dark future for future generations.


24 posted on 04/17/2013 6:47:20 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: vannrox

The USA only has one political party, the Government party.

This ruling elite party has a left and right wing.

The left wing is filled with people who believe they are enlightened and all others are ignorant but as with everything else the left believes in, they are 100% wrong.

The right wing of the ruling elite leans to the right on occasion not because of a moral or political compass but they lean because they have no spine.


25 posted on 04/17/2013 6:58:46 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: vannrox
We have descended to rule by a single party doctrine of elitism. Most people understand that and while you make some good points, you seem to miss some very important underlying points. I'll just mention a few examples.

I too miss my beer and smokes because the more fundamental right, that of property, is infringed. The restaurant owner has lost that right which is far more important to me than the right to light up. Let the restaurant owner decide that. But your comparison to China and such “rights” dilutes the fundamental argument of property, including the most basic right that I own myself. What property rights are there in China? I'm not saying we don't have a property rights problem here, but let's not compare apples to oranges.

Is there a 1st amendment right to leak state secrets? We could debate what are legitimate state secrets and there are far too many things classified as secrets that should not be, but China has its state secrets as well. You don't mention McCain-Feingold, which is far more important to me than any right to pornography.

I could go on and while I agree with you in basic principle, I think your example of China being more free would be seized by some as a reason we should be more like China. I definitely don't want that. Nonetheless, this is a good post and helps hone in on what is really important though I think it misses the point in some of the examples you give.

26 posted on 04/17/2013 7:18:30 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: Chad N. Freud
Also, glancing down, I have a completely different interpretation of the meaning of the Ninth Amendment.

****************

So do I, Chad.

I read the Ninth as saying, "Those rights specifically listed in the Constitution are NOT all of the possible rights, and all of THOSE belong to the people."

Sadly, the federal monstrosity has gone WAAAAAAY beyond its limits and needs to be reined in sharply, if that can still be done.

Then again ... I'm fairly comfortable with my town government, especially since I can run into town officials at the supermarket and give them hell. I'm not a big fan of state government, but the state does provide some services that are beyond the town's ability, though supervision is required.

But what the hell good does the federal beast provide for working stiffs like me except to maintain the military? Anything? At all?

If we closed Washington tomorrow, how long would it take anyone to notice?

27 posted on 04/17/2013 7:41:34 AM PDT by DNME ("... to support and defend the Constitution of the US against all enemies, foreign and domestic")
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To: trubolotta

I can only chat about china because that is where I now live, and where my experience is. There is good and bad about the place. Comparing the USA to China is a comparison between apples and bananas.

But the point that I am trying to make is how OBVIOUS the loss of freedoms are when you leave the propaganda riddled USA.

There are many many many things that I lament. But, my saddest and most worrying concern is the loss of true freedom, and how no-one in the USA understand just what freedom is.

If a store owner wants to ban barefoot people. Well, good for him. But it should not be a law. The Federal Government has no business in regulating these kinds of issues. This is not why the country was formed.


28 posted on 04/17/2013 8:14:10 AM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: vannrox
I can appreciate the limits of anyone’s experience but I do not equate the petty freedoms of self-indulgence with the more fundamental freedom of property. The point being that the freedom to smoke, for example, can be taken away by the Chinese government any time it chooses to remove that or any other freedom. If such petty freedoms are the gage of freedom, there are many authoritarian nations that are “more free” than the US. Again, I am not denying a major problem exists here but just cautioning on how we measure our degree of freedom.

I will also agree many people in the US do not appreciate what freedom is but I would dispute that “no-one” understands that. I think a small majority do understand the constant assault on freedom but are frustrated by the elitist mentality that rules both political parties. Most politicians want to be our "benevolent dictators" because they know what is best for us.

On your final point about store owners and barefoot people, we agree but the central issue is not the right to go barefoot, but the right to ownership of your property. We have a fascism problem in the US where you have title but very few property rights. Using the petty rights (smoking, bare-feet, pornography) as the gage can be altered by an authoritarian government instantly if there is enough noise and public outrage to garner attention. Sure they can give you the freedom to smoke and will if there is enough grumbling, but that property is still not really yours and you do not own yourself.

All I'm doing is cautioning that our measure of freedom should not be on the basis of what government allows or does not allow. Freedom is when government has no power to allow or disallow certain certain rights, such as those you list in the Bill of Rights. In that respect, I maintain the US is freer than China, though our politicians are eager to close the gap.

29 posted on 04/17/2013 8:59:27 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: liberalh8ter

I am sorry. It has been a couple of years since I was in the USA. It used to be that I had to show ID, drivers Lisc, to use a debut cared; use a credit card, or to write a check. I guess things have changed.

I had no idea that you can leave home without carrying an ID in your wallet.


30 posted on 04/17/2013 9:26:49 AM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: trubolotta

I tend to agree with you. Thou on a day to day level, if I were to choose where to live in freedom... China would be my choice.


31 posted on 04/17/2013 9:37:43 AM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: vannrox

I’ve been wondering why you had to show your ID so much in the U.S.

Yes, you can leave your house without an ID.

(It only costs you an infraction if you happen to get pulled over for speeding without one. The judge will probably void the fine.)

I literrly cannot remember the last time I had to show an ID -— outside of an airport. It was either at an unfamiliar bank where I tried to cash a check, or else it was the last time I had my license renewed, too. Either way, it’s been only once in the past decade.

I truly wish the voting registrars would ask me for one, but they don’t.


32 posted on 04/17/2013 4:59:25 PM PDT by Chad N. Freud (FR is the modern equivalent of the Committees of Correspondence. Let other analogies arise.)
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To: Chad N. Freud

literrly = literally


33 posted on 04/17/2013 5:00:39 PM PDT by Chad N. Freud (FR is the modern equivalent of the Committees of Correspondence. Let other analogies arise.)
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To: vannrox
Republicans are the blue blood country club banker faction of the Washingtonians, and Democrats are the communist faction of the Washingtonians.

It's us outside the Beltway against the Washingtonians from both parties.

It's time to stop looking to DC for solutions to the problems those degenerate sons of bitches in DC have created in the first place.

Its time to think about ways to accelerate the collapse because only then can the Republic be reset and the Franchise limited as the Founders intended.

Nothing comes from DC other than higher taxes and more restrictions on our freedoms.

European Kings and Queens moved their courts to different parts of their realms, yet our masters in the political class remain entrenched on the Potomac and extort trillions of dollars every year from the productive class.

The productive class are now all slaves to DC and the Federal apparatchiks in Maryland and Virginia.

The greatest threat to the Liberty and Prosperity of the productive class are not a bunch of demented ragheads in the middle east, but the Federal apparatus.

Ted Kennedy (Suffer in Hell you degenerate MF) not only managed to murder Mary Jo Kopechne but is responsible for the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, which ensured that white non comsymps would be the minority in terms of future immigration to the USA.

Since nobody seems to have a clue in the GOP that this is a problem and much less intends to do anything about it, the war is lost and the collapse is inevitable.

The Washingtonians from both parties intend to steal everything not nailed down from those outside DC and then bug out under military protection when the collapse comes and the riots start.

An electorate that elected Clinton and Obama twice and gave algore the popular vote is no different than the Venezuelans and Cubans electing Chavez and Castro; stupid and dangerous.

It's all over but the shouting for the 1st American Republic, it is predictably self destructing due to the imposition of Universal Suffrage.

Honest Ape mortally wounded the Republic when he brutally attacked and murdered the sons of the Founders, the last 150 years has been merely death rattle.


34 posted on 04/17/2013 5:04:24 PM PDT by Rome2000 (THE WASHINGTONIANS AND UNIVERSAL SUFFRAGE ARE THE ENEMY -ROTATE THE CAPITAL AMONGST THE STATES)
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