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Why Does DHS Need More Bullets Per Officer Than Army?
Investor's Business Daily ^ | April 26, 2013 | IBD EDITORIALS

Posted on 04/26/2013 3:46:50 PM PDT by raptor22

Federal Power: Homeland Security's procurement officer is grilled in Congress on why federal agents who rarely fire weapons need several times more bullets annually than an Army officer. Who or what are they shooting at?

Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz on Thursday asked Nick Nayak, DHS' chief procurement officer, a question we and others have been asking: Why has the Department of Homeland Security been buying so much ammunition?

Dismissed as a concern only of right-wing conspiracy theorists, the reported amounts as high as 2 billion rounds have varied and been explained not as a one-time purchase but a bulk buy over five years to reduce costs. It's one of the rare instances, apparently, a government agency has actually cared about such a thing.

Nayak appeared before Chaffetz's House oversight subcommittee to do what Obama administration officials are loath to do the actual math. Chaffetz has, and his number-crunching raises more questions than DHS has answered to date.

Chaffetz noted that the department currently has more than 260 million rounds in stock. He said the department bought more than 103 million rounds in 2012 and used 116 million that same year among roughly 70,000 agents.

Comparing that with the small-arms purchases by the U.S. Army, he said the DHS is churning through between 1,300 and 1,600 rounds per officer per year, while the Army goes through roughly 350 per officer.

Nayak, acknowledging that the five-tear potential bullet buy could be as high as 750 million rounds, did not contest Chaffetz's math and said the massive buys were needed for training. DHS has procured "approximately 120 million rounds of ammunition per year of all calibers and types and fired approximately the same number of rounds per year, almost exclusively for training purposes," according to Nayak's testimony.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: agenda21; ammo; ammunition; banglist; billionbullets; blm; bullets; bundy; bundyranch; cliven; clivenbundy; dhs; dhsammo; guncontrol; guns; ibd; ibdammo; ibdguns; mrap; privateproperty; propertyrights; rancher; secondamendment; tyranny
Praise Obama and pass the ammunition?
1 posted on 04/26/2013 3:46:50 PM PDT by raptor22
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To: raptor22

So what’s IBD’s opinion on this? It’s posted as an editorial.


2 posted on 04/26/2013 3:50:32 PM PDT by TomServo
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To: raptor22
You don't need guns anymore. We've got you covered.


3 posted on 04/26/2013 3:50:55 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: raptor22

I seem to recall this: “We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”

Nah, can’t be that.


4 posted on 04/26/2013 3:51:22 PM PDT by ri4dc (Cut your cable. You'll need the extra dough later on. 'This war is lost!' The worst is yet to come.)
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To: raptor22
"And just who is this inconsequential pisant who dares to question my actions?"


5 posted on 04/26/2013 3:56:14 PM PDT by Iron Munro (Welcome to Obama-Land - EVERYTHING NOT FORBIDDEN IS COMPULSORY)
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To: raptor22

Simple. They need more so once they destroy the second amendment and declare martial law they can kill more of us.


6 posted on 04/26/2013 3:57:51 PM PDT by mardi59 (IMPEACH OBAMA NOW!!!!!)
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To: Travis McGee
The only thing that really surprises me about these SWAT/SRT uniforms is that they haven't yet (to my knowledge) started wearing berets.

I've seen SWAT patches and badges that look suspiciously like Ranger tabs, SEAL badges, SAS devices, etc., so it's obvious who they think they are. I'm guessing the "SWAT beret" is just a matter of time.

7 posted on 04/26/2013 3:58:18 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Qui me amat, amat et canem meum.)
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To: FReepers; Patriots; FRiends
Reps challenge DHS ammo buys, say agency using 1,000 more rounds per person than Army
Stockpiling?


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8 posted on 04/26/2013 4:00:03 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: raptor22

Homeland Security said it had 263 million rounds of ammunition stockpiled as of November, which is more than two years’ worth.

In 2012, the department used 88.3 million rounds for training, and 27.9 million rounds for operational purposes. Customs and Border Protection, which includes the Border Patrol, used the most ammunition at nearly 38 million rounds, while Immigration and Customs Enforcement used more than 28 million rounds.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/25/sequester-tight-budgets-means-dhs-buying-less-ammu/#ixzz2RcL0z1lQ
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

**************

.....and 27.9 million rounds for operational purposes....

What do they use that many rounds on ‘for operational purposes’ when they have training listed as a separate category?

Any guesses?


9 posted on 04/26/2013 4:03:15 PM PDT by deport
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To: Iron Munro

Hey she looks like Mussolini ... wait, er Obama


10 posted on 04/26/2013 4:04:27 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: raptor22
Dismissed as a concern only of right-wing conspiracy theorists, the reported amounts as high as 2 billion rounds have varied and been explained not as a one-time purchase but a bulk buy over five years to reduce costs.

If that were true, there should be a pre-existing email trail that supports the concept.

Somebody needs to ask: If the purchases are for that reason, then how much savings per round/box/case would those purchase orders have accomplished over purchase orders totaling 80% of the total? 50% of the total?

In other words, how much, in actual dollars, will they save by purchasing the amount they have issued purchase orders for?

Surely they have those numbers easily available, right?

11 posted on 04/26/2013 4:05:12 PM PDT by savedbygrace (But God.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

they wore a raspberry beret, the kind you find a second hand store.


12 posted on 04/26/2013 4:10:41 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad & lived with his parents most his life.)
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To: Nachum; markomalley; Clairity; Carlucci; grey_whiskers; meyer; WL-law; Para-Ord.45; ...

IBD EDITORIAL PING


13 posted on 04/26/2013 4:10:46 PM PDT by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22

Uh, so they can stop by and shoot you?


14 posted on 04/26/2013 4:14:06 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: onyx

Resist we much....


15 posted on 04/26/2013 4:14:53 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

You betcha.
Pray, keep armed and ready.


16 posted on 04/26/2013 4:16:30 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: onyx
I looked for handgun ammo today at a previous retail supplier.

The store had some other merchandise on the shelves where the handgun ammo used to be displayed. I guess they have no anticipation of carrying inventory in the near future.

17 posted on 04/26/2013 4:21:12 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

Whoa. Maybe they were out of stock?


18 posted on 04/26/2013 4:22:14 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: onyx

Maybe they had no reason to reserve any shelf space for handgun ammo for the foreseeable future?


19 posted on 04/26/2013 4:23:33 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: TurboZamboni
they wore a raspberry beret, the kind you find a second hand store.

And if it was warm they wouldn't wear much more?

CC

20 posted on 04/26/2013 4:25:07 PM PDT by Celtic Conservative (Tease not the dragon, for thou art crunchy when roasted and taste good with ketchup)
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To: Paladin2

I hope you manage to obtain some ammo!


21 posted on 04/26/2013 4:34:10 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: raptor22

Could it be because, they can’t hit the target they are aiming at?


22 posted on 04/26/2013 4:39:17 PM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: onyx
I have some .357/.38/.38 p but not enough.

I have PLENTY of 22LR from a few years ago (22lr and 12 ga were the only ammo available the last time we had an ammo run) so will have to use that at the range this week.

No big deal, I just stopped by a store I frequented in the past but they are now just flat out.

23 posted on 04/26/2013 4:40:09 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: deport

how many people in dhs have walked home a few boxes of ammo for themselves? seriously?!?


24 posted on 04/26/2013 5:11:14 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: deport
.....and 27.9 million rounds for operational purposes....

What do they use that many rounds on ‘for operational purposes’ when they have training listed as a separate category?

Any guesses?

Damned good question considering this little fact in the article:

"Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), which falls under DHS's jurisdiction, fired "less than 100 rounds" during 15 shooting incidents last year, according to Humberto Medina, assistant director of ICE's' National Firearm and Tactical Training Unit."

So where did the other 27,899,900 rounds used 'for operational purposes' go?

25 posted on 04/26/2013 5:15:15 PM PDT by EricT. (Another Muslim terrorist. Who saw that coming?)
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To: deport

My question is: How many rounds have actually been fired in DHS security operations (i.e. chasing armed illegals, terrorists (not including the recent Boston affair), criminals and crazy people?

My son has been a federal police officer for about 5 years and has never fired his weapon at a threat. He has drawn his weapon a couple times to keep an armed, crazy person at bay until his team could tackle and disarm the guys. He has never had to unleashed his K9 bomb sniffing dog on anyone.

He does have continual fire arms practice to keep his skills sharp (he was a combat sharpshooter), but this would only require a couple thousand rounds at year, at the most.

We need to know how many DHS people actually have firearms training/shooting and how much they fire off per person or per year total.

Then we might begin to get a better picture of what a firearms training program involves per number of people per agency and how many bullets they use in it.


26 posted on 04/26/2013 5:15:15 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: raptor22

I stocked up a few years ago, and now I’m really glad I did. I thought .223 was expensive at $250/1000, and now that seems practically free.


27 posted on 04/26/2013 5:17:15 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: raptor22

Thanks for the link, so they are admitting that they have more than 2 years of ammo on hand, what about the stuff in the warehouse and stashed way on offices.

This ammo is only the ammo they have available for internal distribution, it doesn’t count all the ammo they literally have.


28 posted on 04/26/2013 5:17:23 PM PDT by dila813
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To: raptor22
"Dismissed as a concern only of right-wing conspiracy theorists,..."

That's a projection attributed to a relatively very few individuals who blather their panic attacks to the Net--panic attacks instigated by all kinds of childish end-of-the-world stories perpetrated by government officials and entertainment media (global warming, nonexistent/exaggerated natural disasters, etc.). The sexually confused lefties in unnatural, insular, indoor urban/suburban environments are hysterical and are obviously imagining "right-wing conspiracy theorists" hiding under their desks and beds. It's common knowledge among people who have more common sense, that most kooks indulging in conspiracy stories are harmless anyway and only trying to escape utter boredom.

Anyway, whatever. If you would normally buy some ammunition for personal training, sports or defense, just wait the mentally affected officials out. Let 'em scare each other into buying out ammunition with their stories about private sector zombies. Then get some for lower prices, when their anxieties are exhausted and government spending is finally cut (eventually inevitable due to real bond investors having tolerance limits for funny money and lack of any real revenues).


29 posted on 04/26/2013 5:24:43 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Grampa Dave; granite; GreenFreeper; grjr21; I got the rope; IchBinEinBerliner; jaredt112; JayB; ...

IBD EDITORIAL PING


30 posted on 04/26/2013 5:51:30 PM PDT by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22

They need more ammo cause they can’t shoot worth a shite.


31 posted on 04/26/2013 8:17:57 PM PDT by X-spurt (Republic of Texas, Come and Take It!)
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To: onyx

Remember when the LA cops were looking for Christopher Dornan and they shot those 2 women in the truck that they thought was his? The cops fired 200 rounds and hit the women 3 times.

these are the same cops who are training the dhs forces, so when they go to the range they use the 1,00 extra rounds and they’ll hit the targets 15 times TOTAL.

With only 15 holes in them, they can reuse the targets and that will save them some money.


32 posted on 04/26/2013 8:23:18 PM PDT by Chainsawj
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To: Red_Devil 232

Cups it be because, their targets are admittedly better armed than they are?


33 posted on 04/26/2013 8:32:58 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (Making good people helpless doesnÂ’t make bad people harmless.)
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To: Iron Munro
these nose in the air useless eater pictures can't be coincidence, they must truly think they are imperial scumbags...
34 posted on 04/26/2013 8:33:56 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Still Thinking; StopGlobalWhining; Straight Vermonter; Tampa Caver; TChris; ...

IBD EDITORIAL PING


35 posted on 04/27/2013 5:18:07 AM PDT by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22

My opinion on this is that the DHS & IRS who are both buying, are making sure that if they can get a crisis going this summer, Obama’s brownshirts, convicts and criminals will all have enough ammunition to keep the rest of the country at bay for them.


36 posted on 04/27/2013 5:58:29 AM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: deport
27.9 million rounds for operational purposes.

What do they use that many rounds on ‘for operational purposes’ when they have training listed as a separate category?

Any guesses?

Of course there is no way this ammunition can be used at this rate. This is a very simple ploy to keep ammunition off the civilian market.

Very troubling.

37 posted on 04/27/2013 10:00:27 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (The Obama Molecule: Teflon binds with Melanin = No Criminal Charges Stick)
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To: raptor22

Apparently they have more enemies than the Army.


38 posted on 04/27/2013 12:54:13 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: raptor22

Because when push comes to shove, they know most of us are NOT going quietly to the ovens?

How I LOATHE these b@stards. Every last one of them!


39 posted on 04/27/2013 5:20:46 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (I don't have 'Hobbies.' I'm developing a robust Post-Apocalyptic skill set...)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

Just a thought, what if this ammo is destined for elsewhere.

It was suggested Benghazi may of been related to moving weapons, why not ammo to go with the arms? Or perhaps it is headed south of the border to go with the Fast & Furious guns?


40 posted on 04/27/2013 8:35:00 PM PDT by KEVLAR (Liberty or Death)
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To: raptor22

Mor about bullets and even more concerning demonization of conservatives by the Obama government: http://www.examiner.com/article/dhs-training-video-depicts-gun-owners-as-militia-members-planning-terrorism

This is truly scary stuff by the US government. Don’t let trolls on Free Republic deny, deny and deny.


41 posted on 04/27/2013 10:23:32 PM PDT by Piranha
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