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When He Talks Abortion, President Obama Pretends to Be a Libertarian
The Atlantic ^ | Apr 29 2013 | Conor Friedersdorf

Posted on 05/02/2013 4:07:23 PM PDT by presidio9

Addressing Planned Parenthood last week, President Obama made what must be one of the least self-aware statements of his tenure. "Forty years after the Supreme Court affirmed a woman's constitutional right to privacy, including the right to choose, we shouldn't have to remind people that when it comes to a woman's health, no politician should get to decide what's best for you," he said. "No insurer should get to decide what kind of care that you get. The only person who should get to make decisions about your health is you."

It's no secret that

(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; deathpanels; healthcare; individualmandate; libertarian; libertariandumasses; obama; obamacare; plannedparenthood; zerocare
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To: presidio9
So when the facts add up against you...

Didn't slow you down one iota. You post an article claiming Zero is acting like a libertarian, despite all evidence to the contrary, and yet you continue to harass ME?

Not better and better, more ridiculous by the moment.

101 posted on 05/17/2013 2:07:14 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Dead Corpse
Didn't slow you down one iota. You post an article claiming Zero is acting like a libertarian, despite all evidence to the contrary,

If you need to run through this one again, I am happy to do so. For the record: The libertarian postion on EVERYTHING (including abortion) is pro choice.

And we just saw you admitting that you are pro-life only as long as that position is compatible with every other right guaranteed in the Constitution. Which is another way of saying that you are actually pro choice and either too much of a weasel to admit it on this website or just too stupid to understand your own "logic."

yet you continue to harass ME?

Interesting, since you initiated this conversation.

102 posted on 05/17/2013 2:33:51 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

The Libertarian Party doesn’t speak for all libertarians. Any more than the GOP speaks for all of us conservatives.

Run along now...


103 posted on 05/17/2013 5:40:07 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Dead Corpse
If is particularly amusing to read your closing insults after you make your standard incongrous point. Reminds me of my five year-old nephew, who knows very little, but thinks he's the smartest person in the room. Cute little guy.

You seem to be having trouble reading very managable sentences, so follow closely: Nobody said anything about the Libertarian Party.

104 posted on 05/17/2013 6:05:11 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

You did. I pointed out where libertarian philosophy does not condone murder. You keep coming back wtih some inanity referencing the Libertarain Parties platform...

You keep using that word, i do not think it means what you think it means... / I. Montoya


105 posted on 05/17/2013 6:32:51 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Dead Corpse
You did. I pointed out where libertarian philosophy does not condone murder. You keep coming back wtih some inanity referencing the Libertarain Parties platform...

We've been over this. From the correct libertarian perspective abortion can not be murder until the baby is capable of surviving without the mother's help. Otherwise there is no moral difference between compelling her to carry to term and forcing a drug company to share its life saving medications. If you advocate for one, you must advocate from the other. I am a conservative, I am happily free of such slavery to philosophical consistency.

If you honestly believed abortion was murder, it stands to reason that this would be your number one political issue. You have made it clear that it is not.

106 posted on 05/17/2013 7:04:08 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

http://www.democratsforlife.org/

Go vote...


107 posted on 05/17/2013 8:18:07 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Dead Corpse
I see we've returned to the "You're a liberal" pretense. I take that to mean you don't have an intelligent reply to my point. Either you are pro-choice or you are an inconsistent libertarian. And that's the problem with libertarianism: Remove one card, and the whole philosophy falls apart. And that is why I am even bothering to have this conversation. I do the same thing on drug threads from time to time.

I'll save myself the trouble and cut and just paste rather than repeating myself:

you were too stupid/lazy to refer five posts back to the origin. Even when I tried to help you. Three times.

The quote you seem so fixated on was:

"I would vote for an honest pro-life democrat (if such a thing existed)..."

This is the third time I reposted it. Feel free to show me that "honest democrat you're thinking about." I am not aware of any.

While you're at it, I still dying to hear what I it was you said I was lying about in post 98.

BTW, I will be working on a term paper most of the weekend, so I am enjoying the occasional diversion.

You, on the other clearly need to at least try to make some friends. It's Friday night.

108 posted on 05/17/2013 9:01:40 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9; Dead Corpse

>>I see we’ve returned to the “You’re a liberal” pretense.

Quack Waddle:

“Cheney Backs Key Element of Homosexual Agenda
Crosswalk ^ | Aug 26, 2004 | Susan Jones

Posted on 08/26/2004 10:58:47 AM PDT by presidio9

click here to read article “

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SXLJk1EU4CYJ:www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1200175/posts%3Fq%3D1%26%26page%3D1+presidio9+homosexualagenda+site:www.freerepublic.com&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

presidio9: Idiot, Useful; 1 each.


109 posted on 05/18/2013 8:08:27 AM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: presidio9

Maybe people are reading too much into this. It’s not a serious look at libertarian philosophy or libertarian factions. Somebody just notices that Obama seems to be calling for less government when it comes to abortion and more government when it comes to everything else — that he seems to be invoking liberty here and opposing it everywhere else. Where you want to go after that and how you want to characterize his position is up to you.


110 posted on 05/18/2013 9:50:02 AM PDT by x
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To: presidio9

You would rather vote for a pro-life Dem over a pro-life libertarian.

This says a lot about you...

None of it good.


111 posted on 05/18/2013 12:00:08 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: TArcher
presidio9: Idiot, Useful; 1 each.

Thanks for joining us newbie. And for making your debut on a three week old 100+ post thread with an unsolicited personal attack. That being said, I am having a hard time identifying your point here. Are you saying I agreed with Cheney's position on gay marriage? If so, you have more than a passing resemblance to someone else I know. Because if you'd bothered to read the thread you'd know that that is obviously not the case.

More interesting to me is why you, who signed to FR seven months ago, somehow keyed on a nine year old thread which, truth be told, I didn't really participate in all that much. I have posted almost 8,000 articles here, the majority of which I disagree with. Curious.

112 posted on 05/18/2013 12:40:19 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Dead Corpse
You would rather vote for a pro-life Dem over a pro-life libertarian.

I seem to recall suggesting that your failure to accurately fact-check the points you chose to respond to was due to either laziness or stupidity. Since your dedication to this conversation is obvious, I will now conclude that that failure can only be due to stupidity.

Here, again, is the full statement that you were responding to:

"I would vote for an honest pro-life democrat (if such a thing existed) over a pro-choice republican." -post 77

While I agree that any so-called "pro-choice republican" is almost certainly going to lean libertarian, I clearly never used the word "libertarian" in my statement. And I definitely did not use the term "pro-life libertarian." We have already seen that such an animal does not exist.

That is four times that you have incorrectly addressed that statement and I have called attention to your stupidity/laziness/poor reading comprehension. What I find particularly amusing about your difficulty here is that I can remember writing that post five days ago and wondering if you would be stupid enough to key on it. I had intended it as a throwaway, but I included the "honest" and the "(if such a thing existed)" just to have a little fun. I confess to overestimating your intelligence, because I had no idea at the time that it would pay off such dividends. I stand by what I wrote, but I admit that I have been voting now for two decades and I have yet to come across such a democrat.

That being said, the lives of 25 million unborn children have been legally ended in that period. There can be no political cause more important than that.

113 posted on 05/18/2013 1:04:41 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: x
No political philosophy is perfect. Some are more perfect than others, but every last one of them is wrong on SOME issue. Libertarianism is a simplistic political philosophy, which elevates personal liberty above all else. Everything's ok, as long as nobody else gets hurt. They base this on a faulty understanding of the Constitution. Unfortunately, for this to work, it has to always apply. Otherwise, it never does. So, for example, the argument for legalizing marijuana also applies to heroin, crack cocaine, and methamphetamine -And if it doesn't, why not?

The correct libertarian viewpoint on abortion, at least until the third trimester, is pro-choice. This doesn't work for so-called "libertarian conservatives" because it forces them to make an exception to the rules, something that is not allowed in libertarian political philosophy. So we end up with what you have here: A not-so-bright true believer playing mental gymnastics with the obvious.

I suppose that the majority of the conservatives here leaned at least a bit libertarian when we were in college and the world seemed much less complicated. There is a very good reason why most of us grew out of it as we got older and took on more responsibilities.

114 posted on 05/18/2013 1:19:06 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

Is Cheney a libertarian or just another bloviated RINO gas bag?


115 posted on 05/18/2013 8:22:26 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher

He certainly seems to be taking the libertarian position on this issue. In general, I would say that he is generally the face of the so-called “Republican Establishment.”

I have no idea (A)what that has to do with this thread, or (B) how that justifies your unsolicited personal attacks.


116 posted on 05/19/2013 5:21:09 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

So it seems Dick, the bloviating gas bag, is pretending to be a Republican just as Barry, another bloviating gas bag, is pretending to be a libertarian.

Are Dick and Barry “noobs”?


117 posted on 05/19/2013 5:44:14 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: presidio9

Hes more in line with the likes of Gosnell.


118 posted on 05/19/2013 5:47:27 PM PDT by jersey117
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To: TArcher

I’m sure you have a point to make, but I’m trying to help when I tell you it hasn’t happened so far. I think what you meant to say was that Cheney was deviating from the conservative position on gay marriage, correct?

Perhaps you should try using smaller words.


119 posted on 05/19/2013 5:55:23 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

Are Dick and Barry “noobs”?


120 posted on 05/19/2013 5:58:09 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher
Are Dick and Barry “noobs”?

I'm not sure? Did they sign up for FR six months ago and then suddenly jump ass first into an ongoing conversation with a referrence to a random and completely unrelated thread from seven years ago?

121 posted on 05/19/2013 6:03:42 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: jersey117
Not more in line with Gosnell. He is completely in line with him. Obama voted against a Born Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002.
122 posted on 05/19/2013 6:07:26 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

Was Herman Cain a “noob”, or just pretending to be a conservative?


123 posted on 05/19/2013 6:08:32 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher

Someone, somewhere, must have told you once that you were interesting. You may have me confused with that person. Make your point, or don’t, I’m not here to do an interview with you.


124 posted on 05/19/2013 6:11:47 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

Was Herman Cain’s campaign manager conservative, or was he just pretending too?


125 posted on 05/19/2013 6:13:35 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher
Was Herman Cain’s campaign manager conservative, or was he just pretending too?

You seem very confused and/or disoriented to me. It sounds to me like you were having a conversation with someone about either Herman Cain, his manager or former Vice President Cheney. It wasn't me, and it certainly wasn't with anyone else on this thread that I know of. Personally I have no idea who Herman Cain's campaign manager is or was. Or even if he had one. If he did, he/she probably won't be hired by any other candidates in the near future.

Actually, it had to have been a "he" if you really think about it.

Are you sure you're on the right website?

126 posted on 05/19/2013 7:31:12 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9
Confused.  LOL, Well I'm just trying to understand how it is that you were one of Cain's vocal supporters on FR
 
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=presidio9+"Herman+Cain"
 
and, having (bloviously) "posted 8000 articles", you can't tell us if Herman Cain's homosexual campaign manager, Scott Toomey, was pretending to be conservative or not.
 
 

127 posted on 05/19/2013 7:52:10 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher
Confused. LOL, Well I'm just trying to understand how it is that you were one of Cain's vocal supporters on FR

Not sure where you're getting that from. If anything I was a Gingrich supporter. But thanks for taking such an interest in me.

128 posted on 05/19/2013 8:15:01 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

"I was a Herman Cain supporter right up until the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel interview where he demonstrated an alarming lack of familiarity with foreign policy issues. I could care less whether he did or did not have an affair."
33 posted on 05/17/2013 1:52:51 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3020781/posts?page=33#33

 
"I could care less whether he did or did not have an affair."
 
Hmm. Adultery.  Conservative?  NOPE.
 
Or perhaps that was some liberaltardian hacker pretending to post as presidio9 and, not pretending to be conservative?

129 posted on 05/19/2013 8:45:22 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher
I'm still scratching my head on how this has anything to do with Obama/abortion/libertarianism or seven year old threads, but since you brought it up, what you actually said was:

you were one of Cain's vocal supporters on FR

Which I was not. But you might know that if you were here at the time. By all means go ahead ahead and back research all 30,000+ posts of mine if it gets you off.

If you must insist on hijacking this thread, let me help you out a bit: What I actually was a year ago (and before that if you must know) was a very vocal Gingrich supporter. That is not to say I did not also support Bachmann, Santorum, Perry for a while, and, yes even Cain. But Gingrich was always my horse, and my real candidate was "not Romney". See for yourself dumbass. I believe I may have coined the term.

Obviously I am have never been down with conservative litums tests. As a matter of fact, I find them idiotic. So, again, I know you're trying to be cryptic (something you have mistakenly confused with being clever), but if you have a point to make, make it.

130 posted on 05/19/2013 11:39:34 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9
"I could care less whether he did or did not have an affair."

Is is your ambivalence toward adultery more pretentiously conservative or less pretentiously conservative than Dick Cheney's support of the homosexual agenda?
131 posted on 05/20/2013 5:26:51 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher
Is is your ambivalence toward adultery more pretentiously conservative or less pretentiously conservative than Dick Cheney's support of the homosexual agenda?

What part of this statement are you having trouble understanding:

"Obviously I have never been down with conservative litums tests. As a matter of fact, I find them idiotic."

Perhaps I can help.

132 posted on 05/20/2013 5:30:39 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

So you believe you can be ambivalent to adultery, support the homosexual agenda — and still be conservative?


133 posted on 05/20/2013 5:40:23 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher
I believe you can be a lot of things and still be conservative. I also believe that while libertarianism and conservatism often fall under the same "Republican" umbrella, that vastly different political philosophies who reach common conclusions by different paths.

That being said, you would not find me advocating in favor on adultry on this conservative political website. Furthermore, I don't endorse or support adultry. It's just not that high on my list of negatives when picking political candidates. All things being equal, I would favor the non adulterer.

134 posted on 05/20/2013 5:48:06 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

So that’s a YES - you believe you can be ambivalent to adultery, support the homosexual agenda — and still be conservative.


135 posted on 05/20/2013 5:56:08 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher
So that’s a YES - you believe you can be ambivalent to adultery, support the homosexual agenda — and still be conservative.

If you are asking whether there are nominal conservatives who support gay marriage, but otherwise endorse conservative policy, undoubtedly there are. But that does not therefore make gay marriage a conservative position.

136 posted on 05/20/2013 6:00:22 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

See, there you go Bloviating again.

There’s no IF.

That’s a YES - you believe you can be ambivalent to adultery, support the homosexual agenda — and still be conservative.

Could a homosexual be a conservative POTUS?


137 posted on 05/20/2013 6:07:09 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher
You are losing me. I have many gay friends. I can tell you from experience that they tend to favor liberal politics.

I will rephrase your question to help you out. It appears to be in two parts:

1) Is it possible to be gay and conservative?

Answer: Yes, there are undoubtedly gay conservatives.

2) Could a homosexual be elected president if he were otherwise conservative?

Answer: There is no law against it, but I don't think he would be likely to win the nomination.

138 posted on 05/20/2013 6:12:36 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

That’s a YES - you believe you can be ambivalent to adultery, support the homosexual agenda — and still be conservative.


139 posted on 05/20/2013 6:27:31 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher
I'm pretty sure you're getting ready to make your point any day now, right?

And as I have never advocated for gay marriage (or "the homosexual agenda" -if you must) I am scratching my head about what it has to do with me, abortion or libertarianism.

140 posted on 05/20/2013 6:30:03 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: TArcher

I believe a fiscally conservative openly homosexual POTUS who respected the Constitution, the military and the second amendment could do less damage, and possibly more good, than a tax and spend, “living Document” person who thought Government the solution to every ill professional politician even if said pol were a professed and practicing Christian .


141 posted on 05/20/2013 6:35:15 PM PDT by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, DEA and ATF.)
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To: presidio9; little jeremiah

>>I am scratching my head about what it has
>>to do with me, abortion or libertarianism.

It has to do with PRETENDING. You’re pretending you can be ambivalent to adultery, support the homosexual agenda — and still be conservative.


142 posted on 05/20/2013 6:38:05 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: RedStateRocker
What’s the socio-biological reproductive fitness of a homosexual pair measured over multiple generations?

 

 
Sex, Evolution and Behavior
By Martin Daly and Margo Wilson
 
 
Got Socio-Biological Fitness?
 
 "Gay" penguins don't - not even in the San Francisco zoo
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=San+Francisco+gay+penguins
 
FAIL.

143 posted on 05/20/2013 6:42:00 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher

What does that have to do with how good of a job they do as POTUS?


144 posted on 05/20/2013 6:44:14 PM PDT by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, DEA and ATF.)
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To: RedStateRocker

The survival of the culture.


145 posted on 05/20/2013 6:46:51 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher
It has to do with PRETENDING. You’re pretending you can be ambivalent to adultery, support the homosexual agenda — and still be conservative.

Again, what you appear to be advocating for is something called "litmus tests." I find this odd, because previously you appeared to be a dedicated libertarian, but... whatever.

I, on the other hand, have made it quite clear that I have no use for litmus tests. Obviously different policies that are generally associated with conservatism occupy different positions on the political hierarchy. As far as I am concerned, there is only one absolute dealbreaker: Abortion. You can be a "Pro-Choice Republican," if you must. There is absolutely no such thing as a "Pro-Choice Conservative." Or "conservative," for that matter.

Now, we've been over this before but the mental block you seem to be having is your inability to distinguish "non conservative positions held by conservatives" from "conservative positions." There is a HUGE difference, I assure you.

Let me put it another way: "All men are mortal. Socrates was a man. Therefore Socrates was mortal." According to the "logic" you seem to be trying to employ here, it would therefore follow that "All men are Socrates." Doesn't work that way.

146 posted on 05/20/2013 6:49:04 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

That’s a YES - you believe you can be ambivalent to adultery, support the homosexual agenda — and still be conservative.


147 posted on 05/20/2013 6:55:53 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher; little jeremiah
I am aware of nominal conservatives like Newt Gingrich, who appear ambivaleant to adultry. Again, on this position, they are not conservative.

You have pointed out a nominal conservative, Dick Cheney, who has expressed some sympathy for the cause of gay marriage. I'm sure that has something to do with him having a gay daughter, but that's neither here nor there.

A am not aware of any nominal conservative who is ambivalent to adultery and supporting the homosexual agenda at this time. I'll let you know when I spot one.

While we're at it, noob, I just noticed that you decided to ping littlejeremiah into this thread. I can't imagine he will see this conversation worthy of his time, but I can't think of anyone better to vouch for my credentials on this subject. I have pinged him into hundreds of threads over the years. He has done the same for me.

Just be sure you figure a way to get your point before he does.

148 posted on 05/20/2013 7:08:16 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

That’s a YES - you believe you can be ambivalent to adultery, support the homosexual agenda — and still be conservative.


149 posted on 05/20/2013 7:11:14 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher
Copying and pasting your previous post is not a point. Here let me help you:

I am guessing that what you are now trying to say that for you support of gay marriage is a deal breaker. It is impossible for a conservative to support gay marriage.Correct?

I actually have some sympathy for that point of view, I may have even felt that way at some point, but I have rejected litmus tests as impractical. Instead, I look at the whole of a man, and measure him individually.

Personally, I do not advocate for gay marriage, but I generally accept Dick Cheney as a conservative. So, yes, it appears that it is possible to advocate for some aspect of gay marriage and still be a conservative. Now, advocating for the "homosexual agenda?" I can't image a true conservative who would want to, based on how I define the term. How do you define it?

I can assure you right now that there are people on this website, a majority perhaps, who substitute "amnesty" for "the homosexual agenda" in the point you are trying to make (but who can tell, really). By that logic, Ronald Reagan was not a conservative, right?

No, on that position he was wrong.

150 posted on 05/20/2013 7:22:32 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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