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Human error blamed in deaths of 7 Marines during training
CNN ^ | Wed May 29, 2013 | Barbara Starr

Posted on 05/29/2013 12:16:05 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid

(CNN) -- Human error is to blame for a mortar round explosion that killed seven U.S. Marines and injured eight other service members during a training exercise in Nevada this year, the Marines said on Wednesday.

An investigation of the March 18 incident at Hawthorne Army Depot revealed that "the Marines employing one of the mortars did not follow correct procedures, resulting in the detonation of a high explosive round at the mortar position," the Marines said in a statement.

"The investigation also determined that the mortar section had not conducted appropriate preparatory training leading up to" the nighttime training session, the Marines said.

The mortar system itself functioned properly, the investigation determined.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Nevada
KEYWORDS: fallen; m224a1; usmc
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To: Born to Conserve

“The investigation also determined that the 60 mm mortar functioned properly and that the weapon system is safe when used as designed by properly trained Marines. The mortars are back in use after training on them was suspended following the accident, officials said.”

21 posted on 05/29/2013 1:19:45 PM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: DCBryan1

Oh, you misunderstand. I very much love and support the armed forces. I think you misread me/ or I did not write carefully. There’s not spit left from my liberal years beyond disdain.

22 posted on 05/29/2013 1:25:59 PM PDT by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: ltc8k6
I was under the impression that fuses aren’t actually set until the round leaves the tube.

in my 107mm mortar platoon, the rounds had a shotgun shell in the bottom which was set off by a firing pin at the bottom of the tube. if this is the case here the second round would have hit the nose of the first round setting the second round off early

23 posted on 05/29/2013 1:27:20 PM PDT by bravo whiskey (We should not fear our government. Our government shoud fear us.)
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To: ottbmare

‘Scuze me -
I am sorry these young men died.
I admire them for joining the service
My heart breaks for them, for their families.
I know nothing about munitions or the details of this accident.
I am so sorry they died.

24 posted on 05/29/2013 1:32:50 PM PDT by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: The KG9 Kid

I learned as a sailor going through weapons training at Camp Pendleton in the late 60s just how human error can occur.
A Navy Ensign though a mortar round would work just fine if it was dropped into a mortar tube with the fins up.
The Ensign rolled a good distance after the Marine Sergeant running the drill slapped him on the side of the head while grabbing the round.

25 posted on 05/29/2013 2:01:17 PM PDT by em2vn
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To: ken5050
I'm sorry ken5050 it doesn't wash. That's the point they made I think. It's a culture from command down. If you were in the service, and I assume you were since a grenade is in your history, you know that you are taught to do things over and over and over and over.

One step follows the other, especially when it comes to weapons systems. No deviation from prepping to aiming to loading etc... if they thought the mortar went off but weren't sure the tube was clear then somebody wasn't paying attention. That someone was trained that after every round goes out a check is done.. something made him think that he didn't have to check or wasn't rote memorized enough to become part of his muscle memory.

... just think about every time you open a bolt and look down into the chamber. you don't even think about it, because you've done it 1000's of times. That just means that somehow they reviewed this unit and maybe found out that they took short cuts or occasionally were lax in discipline....just enough to let it become dangerous.

I don't know but all I know is that the man in command is probably feeling like he let those 7 men down. At least the senior NCOs do.

I had a liner from my helmet "twang" and my helmet spun around from somebody "accidentally" drawing across me with his g#@damn finger on the trigger in a live fire exercise. Joking around grab assing and only 1 person would have died. Me.

I almost smashed his skull in when I quit shaking but his fire team and squad leader paid the price..... then he paid the price.

Those brave men lost their lives and now that I'm older realize that they gave their lives so that future Marines can be saved by being reminded of their deaths and as that vivid memory of a bill of a DI's cover hammering into my forehead, "Pay attention to detail all the time, not just once in awhile, not just most of the time, not when your belly's full or when your ugly girlfriend was nice to you... all the miserable turd."

26 posted on 05/29/2013 2:02:40 PM PDT by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat they sh#t on.)
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27 posted on 05/29/2013 2:06:28 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: ltc8k6

“The investigation also determined that the 60 mm mortar functioned properly and that the weapon system is safe”

Not only is the system not safe, the investigation is also faulty.

28 posted on 05/29/2013 3:15:57 PM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: bravo whiskey

Generally the fuses are not armed until the round exits the tube. There are different methods for doing that.

29 posted on 05/29/2013 9:47:03 PM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: Dick Vomer

You may be correct. I’m not arguing with you, per se..first of all, we’d need to read the entire incident investigation report..not just a few blurbs in a CNN article. And it may well be that there was a deficiency in training, and command. But it could also just have been an “accident”..the golden BB..the one time the S**T does in fact hit the fan. I repeart..for how many years, at exactly the same configured range, were the exact same methods used to train tens of thousandsa of Marines SAFELY? The USAF has a specific procedure for investigating accidents, where no blame is attached..just a total attempt to obtain the truth. Sadly, in our military today, starting at the Puzzle Palace, there is far too much CYA and three Marines with until now exemplary records may, I repeat, MAY have been sacrificed so that we can say that someone is blamed. It’s the same thing with doctors today...stuff happens, sometimes inexplicably, yet we expect perfection from our doctors, and when it doesn’t happen, we sue them.

30 posted on 05/30/2013 5:37:49 AM PDT by ken5050 (Due to all the WH scandals, MSNBC is changing its slogan from "Lean Forward" to "BOHICA")
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