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Sebelius: I canít suspend the lung-transplant rules for a dying 10-year-old
Hotair ^ | 06/04/2013 | AllahPundit

Posted on 06/04/2013 6:35:23 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Portrait of a bureaucratic nightmare: A little girl’s dying from cystic fibrosis and has three to five weeks to live unless she gets a lung transplant before then. The good news is that adult lungs can be modified for a child her age in a way that’ll save her life — except that, because she’s only 10, she’s not eligible for them. The “adult” list starts at 12; everyone younger than that goes to the children’s list, where lungs are much harder to come by. The question is, does Sebelius have the authority to suspend those age limitations and make the girl, Sarah Murnaghan, eligible for an adult transplant?

I honestly don’t know the answer. Murnaghan’s parents say Sebelius’s authority is clear; Sebelius herself claims that HHS’s lawyers have told her she can’t do it. A life hangs in the balance. On one side:

[U]nder existing policy all adults in the region with her blood type will be offered the lungs first, her parents say, even those more stable and with less severe conditions. The girl’s parents called for a change in the policy after their appeal was denied…

United Network for Organ Sharing, also a nonprofit under contract with the government, said a committee would review the policy and the public would have a chance to comment on any proposed changes. But spokeswoman Anne Paschke said any changes most likely won’t come quickly enough to benefit Sarah or others like her.

“The policy development process is not fast,” she said in an email to The Associated Press. “Organ allocation policies are created to transplant as many people as possible overall, result in the fewest waiting list deaths overall and result in the best possible survival overall. In developing policies, committees and the board weigh data, medical evidence and experience, and public input.”

On the other:

Dr. Stuart Sweet from St. Louis Children’s Hospital, who helped write the pediatric transplant system, said the case ‘tugs at his heart’ but that no system is perfect.

He said that if he changed the system for Sarah’s advantage, ‘there’s another patient, very likely an adolescent, who gets a disadvantage‘.

That’s the key question, right? If you waive the rules and bump her up the adult list, does someone else die because they’re forced to keep waiting? And the other question is, why is someone on the children’s list if a modified adult lung would save them? I don’t understand offhand using a fixed age cutoff instead of a qualitative assessment of each patient to maximize their odds of a transplant. If an adult organ would work for her and there are more adult organs to be had, that’s the list she should be on. Sebelius herself seems sufficiently troubled by this to have ordered a review of transplant protocols.

I’m flagging this for you now just because, with the attention paid to it by GOP congressmen in today’s hearing (Tom Price pressed Sebelius on it too) and with Drudge picking it up this afternoon, there’s a chance it’s going to be blow up in the media in the next few days. Now you’re caught up on the background. And no matter what happens, Ace is right that having the head of HHS telling Congress “someone lives and someone dies” is poisonous optics with the public already sour on ObamaCare. Good luck with your 2014 strategy, Democrats.

CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE VIDEO



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: deathpanel; kathleensebelius; lungtransplant; oldnews; pennsylvania; sarahmurnaghan; sebelius
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To: oincobx

Are you saying any lung can be accepted by the next donor? You seem to lack facts to back this up, and usually there are blood typing and tissue typing issues, you can’t just fix it all with cyclosporin.


101 posted on 06/04/2013 9:11:14 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: oincobx

donor -> donee


102 posted on 06/04/2013 9:11:26 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: montanajoe

You seem to assume things not in evidence. Well if you can invent circumstances so can I. We deal with discrete, real cases, not some grey mush of humanity en masse.


103 posted on 06/04/2013 9:12:19 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: montanajoe
Folks as old as you and I need to grow up and recognize health care resources are limited.

And let a bureaucrat make decisions that we should be making with and for our loved ones?

Joe, that's absolutely disgusting!

An insurance company has never been involved in a life and death decision that I've been a part of. Only the doctor, other relatives and myself.

If you're willing to abdicate that decision to the federal government, shame on you. Are you a man? Or a bystander?

104 posted on 06/04/2013 9:13:51 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE --)
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To: Errant

May God bless and keep this little girl. May He also have mercy on all of us for our omissive complicity in permitting the evil which threatens her to persist.


105 posted on 06/04/2013 9:14:57 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: HiTech RedNeck

The real scenario is desperate parents doing everything for their child. They were undoubtedly shot down up the chain of command (so to speak) and are appealing to the public sympathy. I don’t blame them but its not good government nor good policy..


106 posted on 06/04/2013 9:15:54 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: okie01

Yes it is, and yet joe may/will drone on and on with his hypnotic spell. Beware. At a certain point it becomes clear that discussion is not clarifying anything at all.


107 posted on 06/04/2013 9:16:17 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Oh sure you can, you f-ing bitch.

GOD I hate this damned administration more and more every day.

108 posted on 06/04/2013 9:16:49 PM PDT by Marathoner (Impeach Obama, Holder, Big Sis, and throw in IL Gov Quinn for good measure)
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To: montanajoe

Patch the leak and fix the system. Why are these mutually exclusive? You seem to be enslaved under the spell of, well, something other than the good Lord, who really would look at everything down to the last detail.


109 posted on 06/04/2013 9:17:27 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I wont drone I have no time and little regard for idiots..


110 posted on 06/04/2013 9:18:18 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: HiTech RedNeck
>>>>Are you saying any lung can be accepted by the next donor? You seem to lack facts to back this up, and usually there are blood typing and tissue typing issues, you can’t just fix it all with cyclosporin.

I'm saying that there may be others on the list who are a match for the adult lung and would potentially have a higher success rate. Going back to my example. Do you give the lung to the child with five weeks to live and a 40% chance of success or do you give it to the adult with 3 months to live but an 80% success rate. Is it simply a matter of who is closest to death or do you take survivability into account?
111 posted on 06/04/2013 9:19:00 PM PDT by oincobx
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To: oincobx

Alright. I see that it is a network, of doctors I am assuming here, working under contract with the HHS, which means that HHS is ultimately in charge in terms of legal authority.

So that says to me Sebelius is the person who decides if the federal regulations are more important than this child’s chance at life. Doctors say go, government says no.

It not only looks bad, it is bad. HHS being involved gives the regs force of law, and that force is essentially what is keeping the child from having access to an adult lung which could be modified.

I see it like this. Since government is involved via the contract, if the government makes the decision that its regulations are more important than giving this child a chance, then they are saying that their regulations are more important than her life, and thus are a death panel.

You ask if its fair to others who may benefit from the same lung? That’s hard to say for certain, fair is subjective, elusive and may not even exist at all. But I ask is it right to deny this girl an opportunity at an adult lung because she doesn’t meet the regulated age requirement? I my answer is no.


112 posted on 06/04/2013 9:19:06 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: montanajoe

By your personal attack you prove what “basis” you are coming from. It is that of hell.


113 posted on 06/04/2013 9:19:07 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: oincobx

“MAY”

What if there weren’t, though. These clowns seem to be saying “no way it could happen” not “this lung ought to go to this adult that is proven to be able to use it now.”


114 posted on 06/04/2013 9:20:12 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: Ronaldus Magnus

Amen brother, and if it be God’s will, this child will persist. Of that, have no doubt.


115 posted on 06/04/2013 9:20:24 PM PDT by Errant
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To: HiTech RedNeck
The military has a rule to never leave one soldier behind...too bad this "government" has no such rule.

The medical philosophy "First do no harm" was tossed aside, now it's "First do them in and don't even blink", kind of like Mao who just kept murdering. Keep progressing and killing until we reach leftist "utopia".

116 posted on 06/04/2013 9:23:55 PM PDT by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Alright. I say if there is no adult recipient that matches, then give her a shot. Now back to my question. What if there is an adult that matches and would have a higher rate of survivability. Do you move this girl ahead of that adult?


117 posted on 06/04/2013 9:24:07 PM PDT by oincobx
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To: oincobx

Well then we have a genuine triage question and that’s another story. But these bureaucrats seem paralyzed from being able to breach a line which... who invented it anyhow? Doctors in private practice?


118 posted on 06/04/2013 9:26:26 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: chris37
This is the other side of the "let granny die" coin. All the talk has centered around Obamascare cutting off old folks; however, it will greatly curtail expensive medical treatment for children.

When Obama's members of the likely "death panel" were listed, I read some of their comments. Both Cass Sunstein and Ezekial Emanuel (Rahm's dr. brother) are on the same page. I can't remember which said it, but think Sunstein was the one.

Paraphrased, he said expensive procedures could not be wasted on children before adolescense because the state did not have enough invested in them to make it good policy to spend a lot to save them--just like old people are too old to be worth it. Gr. Britain already denies dialysis to children and to adults over 55. However, they have foundations that help provide it for as many children as they can until they get a transplant. In this case, however, it is the govt. policy of prioritizing the organs that throws this little girl out.

Expect more of this.

vaudine

119 posted on 06/04/2013 9:26:46 PM PDT by vaudine
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To: oincobx; HiTech RedNeck
What if there is an adult that matches and would have a higher rate of survivability. Do you move this girl ahead of that adult?

If I may, I say it would depend upon a number of factors. Match and etc., but especially which one is in the most danger at the time an organ became available.

120 posted on 06/04/2013 9:28:27 PM PDT by Errant
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To: HiTech RedNeck
>>>But these bureaucrats seem paralyzed from being able to breach a line which... who invented it anyhow? Doctors in private practice?

Transplant policy in the US is made and administered by the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network working with the United Network for Organ Sharing under contract with HHS. OPTN has expert committees that draft proposals and submit them for public comment. Back in 2005 they decided the risks of transplanting adult lungs into children younger than twelve outweighed the benefits.
121 posted on 06/04/2013 9:32:23 PM PDT by oincobx
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To: HiTech RedNeck
who invented it anyhow?

Here is a link to the policy: http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/PoliciesandBylaws2/policies/pdfs/policy_9.pdf

This is the organization responsible: http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/

122 posted on 06/04/2013 9:34:52 PM PDT by Errant
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To: SeekAndFind

Th Grand Executioner has spoken, so it shall be. Death before your time.. ObamaCare delivers.


123 posted on 06/04/2013 9:35:06 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi --)
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To: oincobx
Back in 2005 they decided...

Things change... That was 8, almost 9 years ago. A very long time in the medical field.

124 posted on 06/04/2013 9:37:56 PM PDT by Errant
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To: oincobx

And then eight years passed and nobody thought to update it yet. Maybe this falls in the debatable area, but if all concerned directly with the proposed procedure are copacetic with it (even the ailing girl)... why not, for a set of lungs that would otherwise get tossed.


125 posted on 06/04/2013 9:39:09 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: montanajoe

The govt created the economic environment, and that’s not a good reason.


126 posted on 06/04/2013 9:40:00 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: vaudine

Yes, I agree that this is a two sided coin. Seems like the face of death is on each side as well, and that the coin is flipped for those that cannot produce or have yet to produce.

What I can see of this situation is that we have put real life Nazis in charge of the most important aspect of each of our lives, and that aspect is our health.

This is going to turn out terribly badly.


127 posted on 06/04/2013 9:45:02 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Gene Eric

I bet if the girl was the daughter of a Dem bigwig it would have been suspended and never made the news.


128 posted on 06/04/2013 9:50:30 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: SeekAndFind
Sebelius: I can’t suspend the lung-transplant rules for a dying 10-year-old

Instead of showing LEADERSHIP and FINDING A WAY, all we get is the typical beaureucratic BULL$HIT.

Another worthless POS politician.

129 posted on 06/04/2013 9:55:55 PM PDT by VideoDoctor
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To: HiTech RedNeck
>>>why not, for a set of lungs that would otherwise get tossed.

Again, you are assuming that the lung would otherwise get tossed. That is not what is being asked for here. They are asking the Secretary to overrule the medical body that sets these standards and add the girl the adult list. So, there could be an adult that is pushed lower by her presence on the list that dies.
130 posted on 06/04/2013 10:02:04 PM PDT by oincobx
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To: GeronL

No doubt. The commies always take care of their interests.


131 posted on 06/04/2013 10:02:51 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: oincobx

If as asserted by you, there may be thornier triage questions. But it sounds like it’s being taken as all or nothing, rather than as maybe.


132 posted on 06/04/2013 10:04:16 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: oincobx
"So, there could be an adult that is pushed lower by her presence on the list that dies. "

That is not how it works..the person most likely to die gets it first..which would be the girl who you will not allow on the list because you like "the rules" even though you don't understand "the rules". But hey..rules rule and government snobs love them some rules..more than little girls apparently.

133 posted on 06/04/2013 10:07:33 PM PDT by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
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To: Earthdweller
>>>the person most likely to die gets it first

Yes, that is what I was saying. If added to the list she could take an opportunity from another person on the list.

>>>because you like "the rules" even though you don't understand "the rules".

I assume that there is a reason why they chose not to transplant adult lungs into children and established two different lists. Putting an adult lung into a child is likely much riskier than putting it into an adult.

>>>But hey..rules rule and government snobs love them some rules..more than little girls apparently.

Hard cases make bad law. Why do you love this girl more than perhaps the mother who dies because she is pushed down the list.
134 posted on 06/04/2013 10:25:42 PM PDT by oincobx
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To: SeekAndFind

Sure ya can! The Obama administration bends the rules to suit it’s thug agenda all the time....you mean you can’t/won’t bend them for a peon citizen.


135 posted on 06/04/2013 10:26:44 PM PDT by Forty-Niner ( the barely bare, berry bear formally known as Ursus Arctos Horibilis...Hear me roar!)
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To: SeekAndFind

So she CAN give waivers to political friends like unions, but she WON’T save a child’s life.

Nice.


136 posted on 06/05/2013 12:50:15 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: SeekAndFind

The rule of laws?

Nope. The law of rules.


137 posted on 06/05/2013 12:58:39 AM PDT by Fresh Wind (The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.)
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To: oincobx
Why do you love this girl more than perhaps the mother who dies because she is pushed down the list.

This child has been on the list for over 18 months. How many opportunities at life were missed due to this outdated policy??? Why do you insist she die for some hypothetical, when she needs a lung now?

Advancements in medicine allow for the transplantation of adult lungs in children younger than 12. It is the height of obstinance to not to take this into consideration when deciding who gets an organ, and who doesn't.

We don't know if there is someone who will miss out if she gets on the list. We do know she will die very soon if she doesn't. At the very least, she and others like her deserve an equal chance.


138 posted on 06/05/2013 2:41:23 AM PDT by Errant
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To: oincobx
"there is a reason why they chose not to transplant adult lungs into children" There was..but there isn't any longer..you should maybe read through some threads for some info..oh and as to the rest of your wild twisted comments to satisfy an agenda of butt kissing Obamacare's mistress, it is not not really cool to bend logic to harm another human unless you are a commie.

Maybe you should ask to be part of the next IRS Star Trek episode...you make a perfect Borg impression. Like the collective much, outdated rule lover?

139 posted on 06/05/2013 3:29:44 AM PDT by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
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To: chris37

My brother needed a lung last August. I’m not blaming anyone for the fact that he didn’t get one. There were a lot of factors which kept it from happening. He died. Maybe that’s why I am paying attention to this story. Also, I’m Catholic and to me, dying is not the worst thing that can happen. We have had other losses in our family. Medical science is wonderful but God is awesome. He ultimately is in control. I just see this as a distraction from some more significant reasons to bash on Sebilius.


140 posted on 06/05/2013 5:03:12 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: Mercat
Wow! Actually a sane thought. I have a terminal lung disease and on many support groups. If there was a viable lung available her doctors would have already performed the tx.
141 posted on 06/05/2013 6:39:05 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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To: oincobx

THANK YOU! I have a terminal lung disease. Not every one that needs a tx is going to get one for one reason or another. The protocol is tough and designed to make the procedure as safe and successful as possible. There are more failures than we would like. A transplant is NOT a fix all end all.


142 posted on 06/05/2013 6:45:50 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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To: marron
I have a terminal lung disease. One doesn't get a transplant until death is pretty much imminent.
143 posted on 06/05/2013 6:50:03 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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To: Coldwater Creek

My brother had IPD (I think that’s the acronym). He died last August. At 68 and on a vent there’s not much chance he would have made the donor list but I would have given him half of mine if they would have let me. He left a widow and three kids and five grandchildren. I miss him every day. So that sort of colors my reaction to this story. Every life is precious.


144 posted on 06/05/2013 6:51:53 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: chris37

I have Pulmonary Fibrosis, terminal unless transplanted. I talk daily with many people of all ages that will NOT get new lungs for one reason or another. This story is heart breaking, but I and the other lung patients that I am in contact with AGREE with Sebelius.


145 posted on 06/05/2013 6:59:53 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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To: chris37

BEATING HEAD AGAINST WALL! The issue is NOT that she is too young, there is not a lung that would fit that is available. If this were my child I would be fighting as well, even knowing that it was probably futile.


146 posted on 06/05/2013 7:06:28 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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To: Errant

MONEY IS NOT THE ISSUE!


147 posted on 06/05/2013 7:08:14 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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To: montanajoe

BING0! Everyone is not going to be well no matter what.


148 posted on 06/05/2013 7:10:17 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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To: HiTech RedNeck
There are NEVER throw a way lungs. Lungs are hard to come by. I know a ton that are waiting for the “call”, people that have several small children to raise. Should they be told no.
149 posted on 06/05/2013 7:14:18 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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To: Errant
Not a long time in the world of lung disease and transplants.
150 posted on 06/05/2013 7:20:00 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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