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Red light: Traffic cameras bring Ohio town to screeching halt
Fox News ^ | June 07, 2013 | Michael Cipriano

Posted on 06/07/2013 7:43:57 PM PDT by george76

Edited on 06/09/2013 7:00:47 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Those traffic cameras drivers hate and municipal bean counters love have brought a small village in Ohio to a grinding halt.

Elmwood Place (pop. 2,188) has seen four of its six Village Council members resign amid public outrage over a flurry of fines issued by the cameras. The devices have raised nearly $2 million for the tiny Cincinnati suburb, but angry drivers and shopkeepers complain the ticket blitz from above could turn downtown Elmwood Place into a ghost town. Now, with two-thirds of the council gone, partly in protest over the cameras, the governing body can't reach a quorum to conduct the people's business.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections; US: New York; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: redlight; redlightcamera; redlightcameras; trafficcameras
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To: Jonty30

It came out a few weeks ago that Florida DOT shortened yellow lights from national standards. To increase revenue of course.


51 posted on 06/08/2013 12:27:19 AM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to thoe tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: KittenClaws
I follow a full second per 10 MPH behind the vehicle in front of me,>>>>>>>>>um, the driving rule is 2 seconds behind the car in front of you (3 in bad weather), no matter what the speed. If you do what you are saying you would be driving 7 seconds behind at 70 mph. Do you know how far that would be?
52 posted on 06/08/2013 3:08:49 AM PDT by conservaterian (Time for a CONSERVATIVE party, but no, if we do that the libs will win !)
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To: george76

These cameras have nothing whatsoever to do with safety. Get rid of them.

Regards,


53 posted on 06/08/2013 3:21:22 AM PDT by VermiciousKnid (Sic narro nos totus!)
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To: george76

A simple way to starve the gaping maw of government (at least here in New York State) is to set a recurring yearly reminder on your computer or smart phone to get your car inspected and/or your registration renewed in time. Local governments are now dependent on setting up police road blocks to pull people over and charge ridiculously high surcharges on top of fines for expired stickers. These surcharges are more than the fine itself. If even half the people who are now being snagged this way were in compliance in the future, these mindless bureaucrats would being to feel some pain and have to look for another, more obvious way, to bleed the taxpayers.


54 posted on 06/08/2013 3:31:01 AM PDT by AdaGray
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To: where's_the_Outrage?
From Suburban Commando:...

That video illustrates the mentality of a lot of our traffic engineers in this country. Instead of setting up the lights in a sequence that allows smooth, flowing traffic at a reasonably fast speed, they seem to have them timed to snarl up traffic by creating unnecessary, repetitive bottlenecks. The newer "on demand" lights are no different - a car pulls up on the side road and instantly, traffic on the main thoroughfare is brought to a halt so that the one lonely car can proceed (and is often making a right turn which can be done legally on red).

That and the excessively long red lights on major routes are why people are intent on pushing the yellow to the limit. For to stop means 2-3 minutes more travel time.

That might not seem like a lot, but it adds up quickly. I can make the 12 mile venture to work at 04:30 in about 15 minutes. It takes almost a half hour to drive home because of traffic lights (and slugs that clog up the road, but that's another issue).

55 posted on 06/08/2013 3:50:30 AM PDT by meyer (When people fear the government, you have Tyranny)
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To: wrencher

Is that because most brits don’t own to .22s


56 posted on 06/08/2013 4:10:03 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: meyer

In Illinois where I used to live, the red light cameras issue the most tickets for right turn on red without a full stop. Not a safety issue at all. I just refused to turn on red at these intersections.


57 posted on 06/08/2013 4:45:40 AM PDT by KEVLAR (Liberty or Death)
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To: KittenClaws

Back around 1990 or so, I was driving back to Texas from Lowery AFB on leave.. Going through NM, miles and miles of straight road and nothing or no one else.
(I was on a 600cc motorcycle).. Was cruising at a little over 130mph (I was young and stupid) and finally saw a car up ahead in the distance...

It went from being an ant in size to a full size car in less than 30 seconds.. was a NM state trooper! I quickly slowed down in enough time to avoid passing (probably had to change my shorts after that ;))..

I could see the driver looking in his rear-view at me and could imagine the big smile on his face.. He never stopped me (phew). He turned off several miles later.

Finally going across the border into Texas, I gunned it again, and not even 5 minutes later, I got stopped by Texas DPS >.< (hahaha)... I signed the ticket, waited 4 hours for the JP to get to his office so I could pay the fine.. and went on home (stying within the speed limit the rest of the way :p

(No, I would NOT drive that way now that I am older... I know it was stupid, all it would have taken to take me out was a rabbit running across the road :/)


58 posted on 06/08/2013 5:45:43 AM PDT by Bikkuri (Molon Labe)
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To: sickoflibs

I too live in MD and have hatred for the camera’s although my county (Harfgord) doesn’t have them. I work in Baltimore but there are none on my route so the only one I need to worry about is the mobile one on I-95 but they are too stupid to move around so it’s always in the same place.


59 posted on 06/08/2013 5:49:25 AM PDT by cyclotic (Hey BSA-NOT IN MY TROOP)
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To: sickoflibs

And then there’s the tunnel cops. As I understand, their jurisdiction is within 3 miles of a toll bridge or tunner yet I see them daily raising revenue on I-95 miles from the tunnel.


60 posted on 06/08/2013 5:53:37 AM PDT by cyclotic (Hey BSA-NOT IN MY TROOP)
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To: meyer

The traffic “engineers” answer to congestion is too often to add more and longer lights. This just increases congestion, the analogy is water through a pipe. Constrict the flow and slow it down and the amount of water that goes through is diminished. Same with traffic.

Arrows first is another change they make. When arrows are last and people can proceed when clear there is often no need for an arrow cycle after. Arrows first and big delays on red in all directions is a safety first choice to help guaranty your right to a risk free life. ( I forget the # for that in the Bill of Rights....) And it increases their revenue.

Another fiasco are federally mandated and lefty loved HOV lanes. The occupants of those lanes are generally buses, delivery truck drivers and construction pickups, and moms with their kids. They do little to increase car pooling, only revenue. It’s one of my favorite traffic laws to violate so I can piss off liberals in the next lane.


61 posted on 06/08/2013 7:20:13 AM PDT by wrencher
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To: riverrunner

That may be part of it, use the weapon at hand. But a .22 will only ruin a piece of glass. Easy to repair. Hoisting a burning tire onto one will destroy the entire device. Much more effective.


62 posted on 06/08/2013 7:21:45 AM PDT by wrencher
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To: wrencher
The long cycles help lead to increased red light running.

Then why does increasing the length of the yellow by one second decrease ticket revenue by 90%?

According to you, it should lead to MORE revenue.

63 posted on 06/08/2013 7:55:50 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("Forget it, Jake. It's Eric Holder's people.")
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To: george76

My response to the cameras is simple and very effective:

I choose to not visit the businesses within a one block area. Too risky.

Many others are doing this too.


64 posted on 06/08/2013 10:29:59 AM PDT by buffaloguy
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To: jdege
For me, for traffic light cameras to be acceptable:

I would add a few more requirements:

  1. Traffic which entered an intersection after the light turned read should suitably delay the corresponding green light. After all, if the purpose of the cameras is to improve safety, the traffic light circuitry should use them for that purpose.
  2. Only in the scenario where a vehicle entered an intersection when the opposing lights and it appears the driver made no effort to ensure that there was no opposing traffic, should the fine be of a level appropriate for a safety violation.
  3. Scenarios in which entering an intersection on red would not require vehicles which are already in motion to change their behavior, but which would require stopped vehicles to wait longer before getting underway, should be fined at a level appropriate for a courtesy violation.
  4. Fines should only be assessed against people who enter an intersection on red after stopping or slowing below 2mph to ascertain that there is no possible opposing traffic if in the three months prior to the infraction there have been zero instances of a police car or other government vehicle doing such a thing. Anyone who is ticketed for such behavior and can provide evidence that within the previous three months government vehicles had engaged in such behavior would be entitled to a refund of 150% of the ticket amount and costs; people who had been ticketed would be entitled to share such evidence.
Those sound like good additional requirements?
65 posted on 06/08/2013 1:32:53 PM PDT by supercat (Renounce Covetousness.)
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To: Persevero
One time, one-tenth of a second, I was caught. For that low risk, accidental, no harm, flow of traffic error, I paid $460. Ridiculous.

Indeed. One question I'd like to ask the installers of those things: if a vehicle enters an intersection when the light is read, but before the opposing lights turn green, are the opposing lights delayed?

If they are, then entering the intersection late wouldn't endanger anyone--at worst it would delay some other motorists by 1/10 second, making the fine unreasonable. And if they aren't, that would imply that to the extent other motorists were endangered, it was a consequence of the installer's failure to mitigate such danger--again making the fine unreasonable.

66 posted on 06/08/2013 1:37:22 PM PDT by supercat (Renounce Covetousness.)
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To: cyclotic
RE:.... but they are too stupid to move around so it’s always in the same place.”

What's that say about those who keep getting caught by them?
With all the complaining you would think these cameras are in our Kitchens.

67 posted on 06/08/2013 1:41:47 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: george76

“The people’s business” my ass. 2/3 down, 1/3 to go.


68 posted on 06/08/2013 1:43:49 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: sickoflibs

The one by me everyone but out of staters slow down a bit before then floor it after. I just look for the porta pottie they always hide behind


69 posted on 06/08/2013 1:56:40 PM PDT by cyclotic (Hey BSA-NOT IN MY TROOP)
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To: Persevero

If someone wants to fight a ticket based on those camera’s, how does the camera answer when cross examined...the camera is the accuser not anyone from the chicken stick government...we have a right to face our accuser in a court of law.....


70 posted on 06/08/2013 6:05:44 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

What study do you refer to? For every study there’s a counter study, so which to believe? Most such studies are biased and produced to support some lobby faction.

So how is the second defined? Is it 1 second more or less than the standard for the other signals in the area? How is it measured, after the locals adjust to the change, or before?

Interminable cycles with delays between every change and separate stages for arrows in every direction increase the motivation for a motorist to squeeze through at the end, rather than to wait.


71 posted on 06/09/2013 5:07:02 AM PDT by wrencher
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To: george76

When the government indiscriminately surveils the citizenry of a country, the government has erected the machinery of tyranny.

Whether it’s traffic cameras or Internet snooping.

Those politicians that enable the indiscriminate surveillance of the nation’s citizens should swing at the end of a rope.


72 posted on 06/09/2013 5:14:23 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Jonty30; All

That’s what they do, they have to do that, to generate the revenue...That’s all traffic/red-light cameras do is generate revenue, it is NOT about public safety...At all...


73 posted on 06/09/2013 6:54:09 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: jdege

They won’t do that...Really???

Why cut off your nose, dispite your face???

Priority number one, make the money...All other ocnsiderations are secondary or not considered...

Public safety is never a real incentive for these programs, it only sounds good forthe media to help justify the revenue generation for the municipality...


74 posted on 06/09/2013 6:57:16 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: sickoflibs

Which app do you use?


75 posted on 06/09/2013 7:29:47 AM PDT by nonliberal (Graduate: Curtis E. LeMay School of International Relations)
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To: goat granny

“.we have a right to face our accuser in a court of law.....”

agreed.

But what does this mean? One can legitimately wiretap, with a warrant and probable cause, etc. The recording hears you arranging a robbery. Is it then your accuser? I’d say the wiretapper is.

Also in the case of a red light camera, the camera is not your accuser, but the cop who reviews the footage or whatever.

I am not defending red light cameras. I just don’t think you necessarily need an eyewitness to be an accuser to be accused of a crime.


76 posted on 06/09/2013 8:55:06 AM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: Mad Dawgg
Two days later his car and the mayors both got cement blocks through the windshield with notes attached saying change the ordinance now.

And this is how to get things done. It's the only thing they understand.

77 posted on 06/09/2013 9:01:47 AM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: Persevero

A cop can read all he wants but he did not observe this infraction...He cannot speak on behalf of the red light camera. If he wasn’t there, could any thing he says be “hear say”. The camera is the accuser, without it there would be no ticket unless the officer witness the infraction. Bring wire tapping in is a totally different subject. As far as your suggestion of what is heard on a wire tap, no driver says out loud to anyone....”hey I am going to run this red light..it is comparing apples to oranges...


78 posted on 06/09/2013 9:02:16 AM PDT by goat granny
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To: conservaterian

Per 10 mph. In town. So, at 30 mph I am at least 3 car lengths.

I seldom drive interstate which is 75 mph here. I stick to the right and do 60 sometimes 65 mph, so 7 car lengths is about right - especially since 75 to most drivers means they can get away doing 80.

I’m pretty much left in the dust...:)


79 posted on 06/09/2013 12:12:48 PM PDT by KittenClaws ( You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: jdege

Item 4 would be difficult. They produce revenue and they’re overseen by politicians. Anything a politician spends revenue on buys votes for himself, even if it’s crossing guards.


80 posted on 06/09/2013 5:28:15 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: nonliberal
RE :”Which app do you use?”

Waze is free on IPHONE and it is a full NAV/GPS map and voice alert map that includes real time police and traffic reports updated by its users like me.

Its a blast.

81 posted on 06/09/2013 7:58:05 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: unixfox
"And this is how to get things done. It's the only thing they understand."

I applaud their effort BUT it concerns me greatly.

There were no repercussions for the vandalized car windows even though in my view the actions were just. Most of the people who received the bogus fines could not afford them. They had trailers and/or motor homes worth little now and few had the money to even take them anywhere. And like I said the way the Mayor was using the ordinance was not for what it was intended. The ordinance was just worded poorly which allowed the city government to fine anyone who had any type of vehicle on their property that wasn't moved every couple of days.

But Law and order is an agreement between the government and the governed.

When the veil gets pierced between the two and the governed realize the Government's rein on controlling the masses is an illusion then you cross over into anarchy.

The citizens of the USA are getting pushed closer and closer to the edge and a little thing like the incident we two are discussing can set off a chain of events that would do some serious damage.

When you ponder the consequences it gives one that hollow feeling in the pit of your stomach like when you are on one of those amusement park rides that suddenly drops you.

My Grandfather predicted I would see full blown revolution against our government in the streets outside of my house before I die. I always thought it was just a warning to keep me prepared for emergencies. Now its looking like he had the gift of prophecy. And that scares the hell out of me friend.

82 posted on 06/09/2013 10:21:16 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: piytar

>> They sometimes shorten the yellow lights to up revenues. That gets people killed.

These are indeed techniques local govts use to graft revenue from the citizens.

It seems the vast majority in govt turn a blind eye to the corrupt product of the comfortable, permanent employment they enjoy.


83 posted on 06/09/2013 10:36:30 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Mad Dawgg

You described the threat of lawlessness well.

Vigilantism is a dangerous thing. Widespread apathy towards vigilantism is worse.


84 posted on 06/09/2013 10:44:34 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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