Posted on 06/13/2013 9:03:03 AM PDT by ZULU
Henricus Dei gratia rex Anglie, dominus Hibernie, dux Normannie, Aquitanie, et comes Andegavie, archiepiscopis, episcopis, abbatibus, prioribus, comitibus, baronibus, vicecomitibus, prepositis, ministris et omnibus ballivis et fidelibus suis presentem cartam inspecturis, salutem. Sciatis quod nos, intuitu Dei et pro salute anime nostre et animarum antecessorum et successorum nostrorum, ad exaltationem sancte ecclesie et emendationem regni nostri, spontanea et bona voluntate nostra, dedimus et concessimus archiepiscopis, episcopis, abbatibus, prioribus, comitibus, baronibus et omnibus de regno nostro has libertates subscriptas tenendas in regno nostro Anglie in perpetuum.
Henry, by the Grace Of God, King of England, Lord of Ireland, Duke of Normandy and Aquitaine, and Count of Anjou, to the Archbishops, Bishops, Abbots, Priors, Earls, Barons, Sheriffs, Governors, Officers, and all Bailiffs, and his faithful subjects, who see this present Charter,—Greeting. Know ye, that in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our own soul, and of the souls of our ancestors, and of our successors, to the exaltation of the Holy Church, and the amendment of our kingdom, that we spontaneously and of our own free will, do give and grant to the Archbishops, the Bishops, Abbots, Priors, Earls, Barons, and all of our kingdom, —these under-written liberties to be held in our realm of England for ever.
(Excerpt) Read more at oll.libertyfund.org ...
Maybe we can go BACK to the FUTURE here.
“Rise And Rise Again Until Lambs Become Lions”
We will not defeat King Obama on a field of battle and compel him to sign anything, let alone a piece of paper guaranteeing rights of any nature.
This isn’t to say we won’t defeat him, or his ilk. It will/may be, however, under condition of total capitulation and surrender - no conciliations needed.
Henry? What Henry? THAT’s not the Magna Carta!
“Henry? What Henry? THAT’s not the Magna Carta!”
That’s Henry III, son of John Lackland (who signed in 1215 at Runneymeade). Henry III tried to stifle the Magna Carta and destroy all copies; this led to a revolt after which Simon de Montfort temporarily attained power; Magna Carta was reaffirmed (and Parliament extended to include not just nobles and bishops, but also knights and towns).
Henry III’s son Edward defeated Simon and ruled more or less tyrannically (he was later to become the old king seen in Braveheart); but eventually freedom won out (in England, if not Scotland...)
Previous generations sacrificed a great deal to get us to where we are today (with Constitutionally guaranteed rights
against the power of the state).
How long until someone posts, “That’s Magna Carta. A relative of mine signed that.”?
[GRIN]
Actually, by genealogical standards, anyone with English ancestry would qualify in the same sense that so many people of European ancestry can claim Carolus Magnus aka Charlemagne [747-814] in their genealogy. Given sufficient time and impact, chances of ancestry increase significantly. For the Magna Carta, drop the time length by 450 years but increase the selection point by 26+ progenitors and reduce the locality to a single country, odds are very good. Actually, there is a book for this, "Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families", by Douglas Richardson
At least it is not one of those "My grandfather died suddenly at a public function when the structure gave way... !"
Johannes Dei gratia rex Anglie, dominus Hibernie, dux Normannie et Aquitannie, et comes Andegavie, archiepiscopis, episcopis, abbatibus, comitibus, baronibus, justiciariis, forestariis, vicecomitibus, prepositis, ministris et omnibus ballivis et fidelibus suis salutem. Sciatis nos intuitu Dei et pro salute anime nostre et omnium antecessorum et heredum nostrorum, ad honorem Dei et exaltationem sancte Ecclesie, et emendacionem regni nostri, per consilium venerabilium patrum nostrorum, Stephani Cantuariensis archiepiscopi tocius Anglie primatis et sancte Romane ecclesie cardinalis, Henrici Dublinensis archiepiscopi, Willelmi Londoniensis, Petri Wintoniensis, Joscelini Bathoniensis et Glastoniensis, Hugonis Lincolniensis, Walteri Wygorniensis, Willelmi Coventriensis, et Benedicti Roffensis episcoporum; magistri Pandulfi domini pape subdiaconi et familiaris, fratris Aymerici magistri milicie Templi in Anglia; et nobilium virorum Willelmi Mariscalli comitis Penbrocie, Willelmi comitis Sarresburie, Willelmi comitis Warennie, Willelmi comitis Arundellie, Alani de Galeweya constabularii Scocie, Warini filii Geroldi, Petri filii Hereberti, Huberti de Burgo senescalli Pictavie, Hugonis de Nevilla, Mathei filii Hereberti, Thome Basset, Alani Basset, Philippi de Albiniaco, Roberti de Roppeleia, Johannis Mariscalli, Johannis filii Hugonis et aliorum fidelium nostrorum.
John, by the grace of God, king of England, lord of Ireland, duke of Normandy and Aquitaine, and count of Anjou, to the archbishops, bishops, abbots, earls, barons, justiciars, foresters, sheriffs, stewards, servants, and to all his bailiffs and liege subjects, greeting. Know that, having regard to God and for the salvation of our souls, and those of all our ancestors and heirs, and unto the honour of God and the advancement of holy Church, and for the reform of our realm, [we have granted as underwritten]1 by advice of our venerable fathers, Stephen, archbishop of Canterbury, primate of all England and cardinal of the holy Roman Church, Henry archbishop of Dublin, William of London, Peter of Winchester, Jocelyn of Bath and Glastonbury, Hugh of Lincoln, Walter of Worcester, William of Coventry, Benedict of Rochester, bishops; of master Pandulf, subdeacon and member of the household of our lord the Pope, of brother Aymeric (master of the Knights of the Temple in England), and of the illustrious men2 William Marshal, earl of Pembroke, William, earl of Salisbury, William, earl Warenne, William, earl of Arundel, Alan of Galloway (constable of Scotland), Waren Fitz Gerald, Peter Fitz Herbert, Hubert de Burgh (seneschal of Poitou), Hugh de Neville, Matthew Fitz Herbert, Thomas Basset, Alan Basset, Philip d’Aubigny, Robert of Roppesley, John Marshal, John Fitz Hugh, and others, our liegemen.
http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=338&layout=html#chapter_48747
Previous generations sacrificed a great deal to get us to where we are today (with Constitutionally guaranteed rights
against the power of the state).
Absolutely
Sorry. Wrong Carta.
See post 7
There are still a few schools based on Great Books learning. A major charter school network in Arizona, Great Hearts, has begun to expand nationwide, based on this approach. Although they were rejected by Nashville for failure to kowtow to the affirmative action establishment, they will be opening a year from now in San Antonio.
Exactly. 2 to the 26th power is 67,108,864. Sine there were about 5,000,000 living in England in about 1215, most are probably our ancestors, and many of them repeatable several times.
This day—the day that the rule of law became greater than the Divine Rights of Kings, should be celebrated throughout the Anglosphere! Let this day be one of bonefires and fireworks—without the Great Charter—there would be no USA! No rights of an Englishman, much of the Freedom of the people’s of the Earth come from that charter King John was forced to set his seal upon!
We are now in a place in our own history where the "government", men and women who are sworn by oath (King John took many an oath too) to defend and obey our own Magna Carta, the U.S. Constitution, are ignoring and violating it on a daily basis. Englishmen had to put their lives on the line to protect their liberties from monarchs who found the Magna Carta inconveniently restrictive. We are going to find out very soon whether Americans are made of the same stern stuff.
We are going to find out very soon whether Americans are made of the same stern stuff.
True. I’m concerned.
John actually made England a feof of the Pope after Magna Charta.
No mean feat since Innocent III had actually excommunicated him, placed England under an Interdict, and sanctioned a crusade by the French to remove him.
Once England became a feoff of the Catholic Church, Magna Charta became more than treason. A lot of the principles were excommunicated and the papal ambassador who actually helped write it (Pandulf), was recalled and censured.
Peter’s Pence in England actually began as a payment to the Pope as England’s Feudal overlord through John his designated subordinate.
Simon DeMontford was actually one of the great heroes of English history. He was repsonsible for the first Parliament in which the Commons sat. He headed a group of English barons who were opposed to Henry’s practise of bringing over French favorites and dispensing lands, titles and money to them. Quite remarkable, since DeMontford was originally one of these people.
When De Montford demonstrated his ideas were larger than just assuring the dominance of the Engish as lords, and he was taking dangerous steps (as they viewed them) towards some popular represenation, a lot of them fled his side and helped Henry and Longshanks defeat and kill him.
That was a tragedy.
Thanks. I had a feeling the odds were very good that 10s of millions of people, if not more, could claim a ancestor who signed Magna Carta.
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